High CRI leds, comparing R9 values, XP-G3 N219c N218b XM-L2 XP-L2

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staticx57
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SKV89 wrote:
staticx57 wrote:
A few more for you jon,

Completely different model Osram Oslon Square. 96 typical CRI. These will fit anywhere a Nichia 219 will

In the midst of a computer upgrade so not all software is reinstalled yet but here are the bins. Both emitters are guaranteed to be below the BBL:

Wow guaranteed below BBL and all bars above 90 seems to suggest this will be the king of good tint/cri emitters. Where do you buy these emitters? How does it perform besides tint and cri?

2700k: https://www.ebay.com/itm/7-pieces-OSRAM-OSLON-Square-LED-2700K-CRI-96-2W-HIGH-POWER-3030-LCW-CQAR-CC/282084757165?hash=item41ad8fcead:g:9FEAAOSwYVBZrJWW
3500k: https://www.ebay.com/itm/7-pieces-OSRAM-OSLON-Square-LED-3500K-CRI-96-2W-HIGH-POWER-3030-LCW-CQAR-CC/282084772891?hash=item41ad900c1b:g:APAAAOSwTqdZrJYD

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staticx57 wrote:
SKV89 wrote:
staticx57 wrote:
A few more for you jon,

Completely different model Osram Oslon Square. 96 typical CRI. These will fit anywhere a Nichia 219 will

In the midst of a computer upgrade so not all software is reinstalled yet but here are the bins. Both emitters are guaranteed to be below the BBL:

Wow guaranteed below BBL and all bars above 90 seems to suggest this will be the king of good tint/cri emitters. Where do you buy these emitters? How does it perform besides tint and cri?

2700k: https://www.ebay.com/itm/7-pieces-OSRAM-OSLON-Square-LED-2700K-CRI-96-2W-HIGH-POWER-3030-LCW-CQAR-CC/282084757165?hash=item41ad8fcead:g:9FEAAOSwYVBZrJWW
3500k: https://www.ebay.com/itm/7-pieces-OSRAM-OSLON-Square-LED-3500K-CRI-96-2W-HIGH-POWER-3030-LCW-CQAR-CC/282084772891?hash=item41ad900c1b:g:APAAAOSwTqdZrJYD

Those leds are great, of that (old first gen. Square) type I have a 3500K 80CRI led in a copper AA Maratac and the tint and beam are wonderful. They knew their tints back then.

Mind though that the ebay seller shows a 2nd generation Square in the picture while the type-nrs for sale are the older and worse performing first generation Square (but with that wonderful tint). With the second gen. Square came the green-ish tints in the high CRI versions.

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staticx57 wrote:
Both emitters are guaranteed to be below the BBL

I like that!
.
staticx57 wrote:
Jon, here is the binning for the 3000k Oslon tested. Not good

darn, so, in general they could be above or below, but if you can specifically buy 6q and 6u, then its a win

djozz wrote:
Those leds are great

Mind though that the ebay seller shows a 2nd generation Square in the picture while the type-nrs for sale are the older and worse performing first generation Square (but with that wonderful tint). With the second gen. Square came the green-ish tints in the high CRI versions.

now Im confused again, are you saying the LEDs that staticx57 linked have green tint? Doesnt the specific bin they list guarantee the tint will be below the BBL?

Im much more interested in High CRI than High brightness.

and please, lets only talk about High CRI, and skip the 80 cri discussion here. I want to stay focused on LEDs with High R9 values, not just high CRI values, and not LEDs with less than 90 CRI and less than R9 values of at least 80.

so far, my pick would be a Nichia sw40 9080.. costs less than Oslon, and the tint bin is not above bbl

staticx57
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Here is the 3000k I tested. It is a different generation of Square.

(binned above the BBL)2nd generation square 3000k 95 CRI:https://www.ebay.com/itm/7-pieces-OSRAM-OSLON-Square-LED-3000K-CRI-95-2W-HIGH-POWER-3030-GW-CSSRM1-BM/272622535822
(binned below the BBL)1st generation square 2700k 96 CRI: https://www.ebay.com/itm/7-pieces-OSRAM-OSLON-Square-LED-2700K-CRI-96-2W-HIGH-POWER-3030-LCW-CQAR-CC/282084757165
(binned below the BBL)1st generation square 3500k 96 CRI: https://www.ebay.com/itm/7-pieces-OSRAM-OSLON-Square-LED-3500K-CRI-96-2W-HIGH-POWER-3030-LCW-CQAR-CC/282084772891

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thanks for clarifying gen1 and gen2

so the ones you posted in post 55 are gen1 (all bars above 90)

and the one barkuti posted in post 49 is gen2? (all bars below 90 except green)

my confusion relates to which post has which generation, and which ebay link goes with the one barkuti posted, and which ebay link is like the one maukka calls the green one, gen2?

green lantern tangent
it seems any time an LED is manufactured to be more efficient (bright), it is also greener
as if brighter and greener go hand in hand
I see this with the N219c also, it is brighter and greener
many people dont notice green tint, especially if their eyes are daylight adapted at the time

sometimes it sucks to be a snob, it made me not want the S1 Mini High CRI, cause I saw maukkas green tint photos, and they are true in real life too, when my brain is adapted to incandescent… Lee minus green filters for the Win!:-) I dont mind trading lumens for Tint

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(binned above the BBL)2nd generation square 3000k 95 CRI:https://www.ebay.com/itm/7-pieces-OSRAM-OSLON-Square-LED-3000K-CRI-95-2W-HIGH-POWER-3030-GW-CSSRM1-BM/272622535822

(binned below the BBL)1st generation square 2700k 96 CRI: https://www.ebay.com/itm/7-pieces-OSRAM-OSLON-Square-LED-2700K-CRI-96-2W-HIGH-POWER-3030-LCW-CQAR-CC/282084757165
(binned below the BBL)1st generation square 3500k 96 CRI: https://www.ebay.com/itm/7-pieces-OSRAM-OSLON-Square-LED-3500K-CRI-96-2W-HIGH-POWER-3030-LCW-CQAR-CC/282084772891


staticx57
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Oops please translate U6 as 6U and Q6 as 6Q in the pictures, mixed up the order

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Outstanding! Thank you very much
the green tinted gen2 version has the tallest green bar, and the green bar is taller than the R9

the gen1 binned below the BBL have R9 bars that are taller than the green bars
excellent info

I still think a taller Green bar than R9 bar is predictive of green tint, but I do realize they are separate factors. I just like rules of thumb. Pass on the Taller Green Bar for night use. During the day, my brain white balances to a lot more green content.

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It think the overall spectral emission balance versus the equivalent temperature correlated black body/sun illuminant gives out the tint, and it may be well possible to hint it just looking at the balance between the saturated colour values R9 - R12:

 

 This one should look very slightly greenish.

 

In this case the above one looks to be slightly below BBL and cozy, while the latter is quite balanced. 

 

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Barkuti wrote:
while the latter is quite balanced.

yes, thanks for your comments,
I think saturated color balance is a potentially helpful tint hint
and I think youre correct to include the blue in a balance comparison
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heads up, Clemence has a new shipment of Optisolis, N219b, E21a

here is a glimpse of past charts



.

and look what Clemence did to one of my Utorch S1 Mini..

he installed an E21A 2000k on left, plus other beam magic, compare to stock XPL 4000k on right..

watch his site and or message him for more info https://www.virence.com/shop
he offers quad boards, led reflow services, and does mods too.. the man is an Artiste, Im a fan

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I love the candlelight 2000k E21A. Clemence is modding several Tiara Pros with different E21A tints for me. I can’t wait to see them in action!

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That 219b 4500 looks gorgeous! It's my PERFECT tint.

Nichia 219B

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the 2000k looks like you smashed a pumpkin up against the wall Ughh

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SKV89 wrote:
I love the candlelight 2000k E21A. Clemence is modding several Tiara Pros with different E21A tints for me. I can’t wait to see them in action!

I look forward to your photos
so far I have one Utorch w 2000k E21A, and one Utorch w N219b 4500k
theres one more torch to do, and Im waffling, trying to decide what LED to choose

at first I wanted a 4000k 219b 9080, then I considered and E21A, also in 4000k, Then I decided to get another N219b 4500k 9080.. the LED going into the $1000 Titanium HDS.. its like the holy grail.., but I digress, then I wondered about a 5000k Optisolis..

then I posted the above comparo of the 3k Optisolis and 3K E21A.. I have not yet learned if the Optisolis would fit a Utorch S1 Mini..

meanwhile I bought a Low CRI light.. true story.. incoming RRT-01, the polar opposite of everything this thread is about, it has negative R9, green Tint, is cool white, and makes skin look dead.. but hey, its got a magnetic ring Im curious to try :-)…

see all that green in the middle of the beam? Only a snob would notice, but who knows, maybe a Lee 1/2 minus green filter will make it fun as a nightlight… at sublumen levels, colors become rather subLuminated.. Wink
(who am I kidding… I wonder if Clemence could put an Optisolis in an RRT-01;-))

Nichia wrote:

That 219b 4500 looks gorgeous! It’s my PERFECT tint.


Ive been using them a lot lately, its a fun LED, bright, daylight white, and lots of extra pink:

the Utorch took almost a 50% hit in lumens from the N219b swap, but Im fine with that:

chinooker wrote:
the 2000k looks like you smashed a pumpkin up against the wall Ughh
Yes, I Love the Candle color option, for late night chill sessions
have another hit of Clemence’s Magical E21A 2000k:
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jon_slider wrote:
meanwhile I bought a Low CRI light.. true story.. incoming RRT-01, the polar opposite of everything this thread is about, it has negative R9, green Tint, is cool white, and makes skin look dead.. but hey, its got a magnetic ring Im curious to try :-)…

Wow, that’s like the Hitler of flashlights…

09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0

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Jon_slider, thanks for those very useful pics. I really like the magnetic rotary brightness control on the Jetbeam RRT-01. If only it has USB recharge, it would be the perfect gift light for muggles (after a HI CRI swap ofcourse).

The 4500k 219B on the right seems a bit too magenta instead of pink. the 4500k 219B in the middle seems fine. Why is that?

I think I’m going to use the E21A 2000k while watching TV. It’ll allow me to see my surrounding while not enough to distract me from the screen.

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SKV89 wrote:
Jon_slider, thanks for those very useful pics. I really like the magnetic rotary brightness control on the Jetbeam RRT-01. If only it has USB recharge, it would be the perfect gift light for muggles (after a HI CRI swap ofcourse).

The 4500k 219B on the right seems a bit too magenta instead of pink. the 4500k 219B in the middle seems fine. Why is that?

I think I’m going to use the E21A 2000k while watching TV. It’ll allow me to see my surrounding while not enough to distract me from the screen.

my solution to USB charging is to buy 16340 cells like Olight and Utorch, and Klarus, are including in their S1 Mini and Mi1c. The USB rechargeable 16340 is also available with a Fenix label:

The RRT-01 is actually also 18350 compatible, though those dont come w USB, I have chargers for that option.

I do find the sw45 are very “violet”, not just pink. At first I did not like them, but when Im adapted to daylight, I dont notice the violet much.

Comparing the 219b SW40 9080 and the 219b SW45 9080, I find the sw40 slightly more yellow than I like.. but Im very nit picky at this level of detail. The sw45 is bluer and pinker, but also cooler CCT, and there are times when I like cooler CCT

atm my use of sw40 has decreased, and my use of sw45 has increased.

Since I already have a Utorch S1 Mini w 2000k E21A, and another Utorch S1 Mini w N219b sw45, Im pondering what LED to opt for in the #3 Utorch being modded by Clemence. Im thinking I will not go with sw40, as originally intended, Im becoming more interested in cooler High CRI options. I may go with another sw45, am also considering a 5000k Optisolis, based on the very balanced and high levels of the saturated colors, R9, R10, R11, R12 and R13 on the 3000k optisolis posted above. That decision will depend on Clemence being willing, and arrival of an LED board for the Optisolis. I dont know if the Voltages of the Optisolis is a good match for the Utorch.. the quad E21A did not work out because the voltage was too low, and the Utorch driver was increasing the current, and decreasing runtime, so we went to a single E21A.

For your Armytek I dont think there will be an issue with using a quad E21A, I suspect that is where your Clemence mod is headed, and I trust his judgement.

I have a couple other warm lights, 3000k N219c versions. Though I like them in full darkness, and on my nightstand, I dont think I need two more warm lights, Im finding I use the SW45 more often than my 3000k options. Im still really excited to get the E21A 2000k. It color is much more orange, in a way I like, than the 219c 3000k, that I find overly yellow (which I improve with a Lee 1/4 minus green filter).

fun times in the LED selection world, all thanks to Clemence

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"And a couple Zebras.. you can see they are very low in R9, which imo is the reason there is so much “tint lottery”. Its not really lottery, its just that the High CRI Zebras have very low R9.. Not a lot of red, so the green and yellow dominate their tint."

I can't  agree with you, because  new  mkIV  Fc and Fd Zebralight's  with  XHP50.2  has much better color rendering,

that old models,

foe example  H600Fc mkIV

 

I has H600Fc IV and Sc600Fc IV,   both has good color rendering.

I say about significant difference between old Zebras (H600w, H600w II, H600Fc III) and new mk IV - new are much better.

Tint ?

  Both Zebralight's has nice tint (very  slight green in Sc600), these Cree XHP50.2 (imho) better, that Nichia 219b (9050 grade) in my 2 old flashlights, better , that Nichia 219c in my old flashlights.

(I can't compare with Nichia 219b (9080 grade), because I dont' have it.)

Compare with  my Osram 's flashlights (CQAR.CC) 4000K : OSRAM's has slightly better color rendering and tint.

 

Flashlights : custom (Jaxman E2L with led4power LD-4 drivers and 3xOsram CQAR.CC), custom Skillhunt H03 with Osram 3К/4К, Zebralight {H600fc IV, Sc600fc IV, H600fc III}, Jaxman E2(N219b), Convoy UV.
Previous: Zebralight {H501, H600W, H600W II, H602W}, NiteCore TIPCRI, A A01, Fenix L2D CE/CEQ5.

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Hi Gang,

I was just wondering if anyone here has ever tested to see if using optics like the common 3x carclo type deteriorates CRI? The main reason I ask is I’ve been using some of the 90 CRI optisolis emitters in a tripple and noticed a very nasty shift in color when using them. It turns my 5000k color temp into like 6500.

With a wide optic the color is smooth and even just cooler than it should be. With a narrow optic I get three blue dots surrounded by some varous warmer colors. When I mule it the beam us not a great pattern but the color is about what you’d expect. A nice white with a mild tan overlay.

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The Optisolis is special and does not work with smooth optics. Most single-die LEDs should work in clear optics if they fit. The current Cree LEDs will produce an ugly green corona or spot, just like with smo reflectors.

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The optics don’t reduce CRI. They may have some effect on tint just like AR lenses. Tint shift is another matter altogether and just like The_Driver said, Optisolis needs a diffuse optic to prevent that nasty shift. Otherwise the hotspot is very cool, while the edges turn yellowish green and warm.

I didn’t happen to have a frosted Carclo 10623/10624, but I sanded a Carclo 10622 and while the results were good, the edges of the beam still had visibly warmer temperature to them. After adding d-c-fix the beam turned perfect. Add a mild minus green for that rosy goodness.

With d-c-fix:

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Thank you guys for the input.
.
.
Maukka, just to make sure I understand correctly. The test your showing says 4974k temp, that is with the optic in place correct? So I assume this is the 5000k temp rated version of the LED and your saying proper diffusion will eliminate the tint shift all together?

Is this the version of the product d-c-fix that I should order?
https://www.amazon.com/d-c-fix-Self-Adhesive-Glossy-White-346-0011/dp/B0...

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Exactly. Optic + d-c-fix.

This is the correct d-c-fix:
https://www.amazon.com/d-c-fix-346-0211-Decorative-Self-Adhesive-Window/...

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Thank you!!!!

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maukka wrote:
I didn’t happen to have a frosted Carclo 10623/10624, but I sanded a Carclo 10622 and while the results were good

What gradation of sand paper you used?

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He probably went in first with 400 wet grit, then 1000 wet grit, then 2000 wet grit.

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P1200. Wet first, dry second.

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Not too much. I tried 1000, 1500, 2000, 5000 and 7000 and I think the best is 2000. All wet.

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SKV89 wrote:
staticx57 wrote:
A few more for you jon,

Completely different model Osram Oslon Square. 96 typical CRI. These will fit anywhere a Nichia 219 will

In the midst of a computer upgrade so not all software is reinstalled yet but here are the bins. Both emitters are guaranteed to be below the BBL:

Wow guaranteed below BBL and all bars above 90 seems to suggest this will be the king of good tint/cri emitters. Where do you buy these emitters? How does it perform besides tint and cri?

So I finally got to try the Oslon Square 2700k 96CRI 6U tint bin and 3500k 92CRI 5Q tint bin. The 2700k is the nicest warm white tint I have ever seen and R9 is even higher than the E21A and SST-20 95CRI when I shine it on my wood texture table. For reference, I have tried a number of warm white emitters, Cree XM-L2 90CRI, XM-L2 7A 70CRI, XP-E HEW 7A2 90CRI, XP-G2 HE 90CRI S2 7A1, XP-L2 V4 7A 70CRI, SST-20 95CRI HD2, Nichia 219B 9050, Nichia E21A 3000k, Yuji, and a few others. The only one I haven’t tried yet is the 219B 9080 3000k but I already have some that I will try in the future. But until then, the Oslon Square 96CRI 2700k is the BEST warm white I’ve ever seen.

The 3500k 92CRI 5Q tint bin looks great too and possibly the best 3500k tint in existence unless compared with the mixed CCT emitters. My Tiara Pro from Clemence with quad E21A 2× 3000k with 2× 4000k still looks the best for 3500k. But it’s hard to beat mixed CCT especially if the E21A tint was so good to begin with. R9 of the 92CRI Oslon is noticeably not as good as the 96CRI Oslon. It is also worst than the SST-20 95CRI and E21A. Even the 219B 3000k 9050 has better R9 than the Oslon 3500k. But that is not to say it is bad. Color rendering and R9 seems to edge the 219C 4000k 90CRI by a bit.

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