Texas_Ace MT09R Modding thread, 20k+ lumens, 80CRI, can start fires? Yes please.

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TSO
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Texas_Ace wrote:
TSO wrote:
So…could somebody explain the nomenclature and the hierarchy for the different emitter “bins” and grades? That would be AWESOME for this newbie. I understand color temperature ratings (4000k, 5700k, etc.) and CRI ratings. Its the “p2”, “m4”, etc. that I can’t find info on. Thanks!

As you know the color temp is just the color of the light from the LED. Although it gets more complicated then that as you can have many differnt hues toa given tint (green, red, yellow, blue ect) it is still pretty basic.

CRI is how close to sunlight the light produces color. most LED’s are 70cri or less and colors look flat and dead.

80cri is 80% of the sun and is what you generally see in LED and florescent household lighting. It is a good mix of output and color.

90CRI is 90% of the sun and produces nicer colors at the cost of lumens.

The flux bins are simply how bright and efficient the LED is.

In the case of the XHP70.2 the P2 is the highest output bin, It then goes N4 – N2 – M4- M2 – ect.

Each bin is around 7% brighter/dimmer IIRC and Cree has a 7% tolerance for each bin as well (convenient wouldn’t you say).

So what this means is that some LED’s will simply be brighter then others and vice versa and there is no way to know until you try them.

You also have to factor in forward voltage. For example the 80cri LED’s have a much lower forward voltage that helps them make the big lumens they do even though they are a lower bin.

Thanks so much!

TSO
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Texas_Ace wrote:
TSO wrote:
Texas_Ace wrote:
Oh, I also wanted to let everyone know that I requested Dale hold off on sending me the MT09R’s he is sending to me until Monday. I will not have time to work on them until middle of next week anyways and this gives everyone a little more time to jump on board before he ships them to me.

The more we can keep things in larger orders then a bunch of small ones the simpler it is for all of us.

He has the lights now, I just simply won’t have time to work on them as the lights I have on hand now will take all my spare time until this weekend I am sure and early next week I will be busy with other stuff.

Speaking of which, 1 or 2 more packages showed up today but I have not opened them up yet to see whos they are.

Sent mine Fed Ex this morning, they said it would get there Friday morning Smile Can’t wait!

Maybe Dale, in holding off on shipping more lights, will have time to ship my charger that I bought.
Back in January.

I made a mistake, I meant to say Terry not Dale lol.

I will watch for your light, I know I have several showing up in the next few days, gonna try to knock them out by this weekend before I start on another project that will take my time for a few days.

Gotcha, Terry, Not Dale. I think I read that Dale was at the doctor’s with his daughter? Hope she’s doing alright, and that it’s nothing serious.
And thanks for trying to get to my light!

TSO
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JasonWW wrote:
TSO wrote:
So…could somebody explain the nomenclature and the hierarchy for the different emitter “bins” and grades? That would be AWESOME for this newbie. I understand color temperature ratings (4000k, 5700k, etc.) and CRI ratings. Its the “p2”, “m4”, etc. that I can’t find info on. Thanks!
Check out this link and download the data sheet. http://www.cree.com/led-components/products/xlamp-leds-arrays/xlamp-xhp70-2 You will start to see the patterns. Every led is tested with a set voltage and current and Cree reads the color data and brightness. It is then divided up into several groups to be sold.

From one Houstonian to another – Thanks!

Texas_Ace
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TSO wrote:
Texas_Ace wrote:
TSO wrote:
Texas_Ace wrote:
Oh, I also wanted to let everyone know that I requested Dale hold off on sending me the MT09R’s he is sending to me until Monday. I will not have time to work on them until middle of next week anyways and this gives everyone a little more time to jump on board before he ships them to me.

The more we can keep things in larger orders then a bunch of small ones the simpler it is for all of us.

He has the lights now, I just simply won’t have time to work on them as the lights I have on hand now will take all my spare time until this weekend I am sure and early next week I will be busy with other stuff.

Speaking of which, 1 or 2 more packages showed up today but I have not opened them up yet to see whos they are.

Sent mine Fed Ex this morning, they said it would get there Friday morning Smile Can’t wait!

Maybe Dale, in holding off on shipping more lights, will have time to ship my charger that I bought.
Back in January.

I made a mistake, I meant to say Terry not Dale lol.

I will watch for your light, I know I have several showing up in the next few days, gonna try to knock them out by this weekend before I start on another project that will take my time for a few days.

Gotcha, Terry, Not Dale. I think I read that Dale was at the doctor’s with his daughter? Hope she’s doing alright, and that it’s nothing serious.
And thanks for trying to get to my light!

Yes, his daughter is doing fine and is back home last I heard a few days ago.

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Ok, I got another light finished tonight. This one for Newlumen. He sent me an MT07S that came setup for 4S from the factory. First I had to convert it to 2S which was much harder then I first thought but the results were worth it.

In stock form it was doing 4700 lumens.

Now with a 2S conversion, Spring bypasses, TA driver and 5700k P2 LED it is doing a bit under 10k lumens! (It peaks over 10k for a few seconds)

It legitimately doubled the lumen output. I am quite impressed. This is the most powerful single LED flashlight I have seen to date. I knew that the XHP70.2 P! was capable of this from a cold start from my testing but never actually seen it pushed this hard in a light before.

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Holy cow! How does this throw compared to the MT09R XHP35?

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SKV89 wrote:
Holy cow! How does this throw compared to the MT09R XHP35?

Yeah, I was quite surprised as well.

A very quick and dirty throw test has the MT03 pulling ahead in throw by about 24% vs the MT07S.

This is to be expected, even with multi led setups the larger total reflector size is still going to generally throw further. Plus the XHP35 is a much better thrower.

Now with a dedome the MT07S should be on par or possibly even slightly ahead.

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Damn nice. Thanks TA.

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Keepitsharp wrote:
Pretty sure my version 1 MT03 arrived at your place today. You are on a MT03 roll… Thumbs Up Thanks. Can’t wait to see the transformation. Keepitsharp

Yep, I got yours in today! I will try to get it done tomorrow.

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Ok, starting work on Keepitsharp’s V1 MT03. I have to agree the V1 is a step up in quality, the ano appears to be HAIII and it just feels a step up.

Before measurements with the stock xhp70 (not70.2) was 11k lumens.

I also realized this is my last 70.2 driver for the moment. I already have the components for 30 more here and the PCB’s are supposed to arrive early next week. So it should work out well with the next batch from Terry that should be arriving about the same time.

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Texas_Ace wrote:
Ok, starting work on Keepitsharp’s V1 MT03. I have to agree the V1 is a step up in quality, the ano appears to be HAIII and it just feels a step up.

Before measurements with the stock xhp70 (not 70.2) was 11k lumens.

Thank you! Looking forward to the* after *numbers! This light was an early pre-order and some of the first had a few flaws. They did try hard to put a good product out.

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Keepitsharp wrote:
Texas_Ace wrote:
Ok, starting work on Keepitsharp’s V1 MT03. I have to agree the V1 is a step up in quality, the ano appears to be HAIII and it just feels a step up.

Before measurements with the stock xhp70 (not 70.2) was 11k lumens.

Thank you! Looking forward to the* after *numbers! This light was an early pre-order and some of the first had a few flaws. They did try hard to put a good product out.

Yes, as soon as I opened it up I noticed said flaws. Not major but existent none the less.

The biggest of which is the too short battery tube, obviously you have to be careful to get good contact with the cells but not crush them.

Ok, I just finished it up, and final numbers with 4000k 80cri LED’s, TA driver and bypasses are just under ~21k lumens, much improved from the factory setup for sure!

I think the slightly lower numbers are from the very subpar solder used on the mcpcb connection, I tried to clean it up but it has a lot of flux mixed in and I would of had to completely strip the mcpcb and clean it and then redo it from scratch to make any real improvements.

I did not figure it was worth that much hassle for a few hundred lumens but if you want me to I can do it.

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Texas_Ace wrote:
Ok, I just finished it up, and final numbers are just under ~21k lumens, much improved from the factory setup for sure!

I think the slightly lower numbers are from the very subpar solder used on the mcpcb connection, I tried to clean it up but it has a lot of flux mixed in and I would of had to completely strip the mcpcb and clean it and then redo it from scratch to make any real improvements.

I did not figure it was worth that much hassle for a few hundred lumens but if you want me to I can do it.

This sounds just fine and with your new driver it will be a massive improvement!

Thanks so much!

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Texas_Ace wrote:

Ok, I just finished it up, and final numbers are just under ~21k lumens, much improved from the factory setup for sure!

Is this with the stock LEDs?

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SKV89 wrote:
Texas_Ace wrote:

Ok, I just finished it up, and final numbers are just under ~21k lumens, much improved from the factory setup for sure!

Is this with the stock LEDs?

This is with 4000k 80cri, I forgot to put that in there.

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I have the XHP 70 MT03. So this thing can get up to 20k lumen with mod?
Would 5700k be brighter?

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yuhsin91123 wrote:
I have the XHP 70 MT03. So this thing can get up to 20k lumen with mod?
Would 5700k be brighter?

You would need to change the emitters to 70.2 in addition to other things to get 20k+ lumen. The older xhp70 can’t do that much output.

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yuhsin91123 wrote:
I have the XHP 70 MT03. So this thing can get up to 20k lumen with mod? Would 5700k be brighter?

Yes, after a complete mod with all the trimmings it should be over 20k lumens without much trouble.

5700k does not seem to be doing noticeably better then the 4000k. Both are between 20-23k lumens.

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Texas_Ace wrote:
SKV89 wrote:
Texas_Ace wrote:

Ok, I just finished it up, and final numbers are just under ~21k lumens, much improved from the factory setup for sure!

Is this with the stock LEDs?

This is with 4000k 80cri, I forgot to put that in there.

That is impressive for the mt03 ( pop can light). 9500 lumen to about 21000 lumen..

I would like to see some beanshots when he got it,

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Texas_Ace wrote:
Ok, I got another light finished tonight. This one for Newlumen. He sent me an MT07S that came setup for 4S from the factory. First I had to convert it to 2S which was much harder then I first thought but the results were worth it.

In stock form it was doing 4700 lumens.

Now with a 2S conversion, Spring bypasses, TA driver and 5700k P2 LED it is doing a bit under 10k lumens! (It peaks over 10k for a few seconds)

It legitimately doubled the lumen output. I am quite impressed. This is the most powerful single LED flashlight I have seen to date. I knew that the XHP70.2 P! was capable of this from a cold start from my testing but never actually seen it pushed this hard in a light before.

Thanks.. i knew already this mt07s was under driven from the factory. I have single xhp70.2 light but max output is 6700 lumen.. this is a game changer.. i cant wait to try it out..

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Newlumen wrote:
Texas_Ace wrote:
Ok, I got another light finished tonight. This one for Newlumen. He sent me an MT07S that came setup for 4S from the factory. First I had to convert it to 2S which was much harder then I first thought but the results were worth it.

In stock form it was doing 4700 lumens.

Now with a 2S conversion, Spring bypasses, TA driver and 5700k P2 LED it is doing a bit under 10k lumens! (It peaks over 10k for a few seconds)

It legitimately doubled the lumen output. I am quite impressed. This is the most powerful single LED flashlight I have seen to date. I knew that the XHP70.2 P! was capable of this from a cold start from my testing but never actually seen it pushed this hard in a light before.

Thanks.. i knew already this mt07s was under driven from the factory. I have single xhp70.2 light but max output is 6700 lumen.. this is a game changer.. i cant wait to try it out..

Indeed it was quite impressive.

Although you can also really see the efficiency drop off pushing it to that level. The 50% top of the ramp mod was doing almost 7500 lumens and going to 100% turbo only bumped it up to 10k but it sure got hot faster!

Needless to say I would only use turbo for short bursts as it is just a lot of extra stress for not much gain.

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Absolute madness.

Now, with better cells, like 20700/21700 cells and lower resistance contacts, do you think it would be possible to hit the max lumen output, being about 27 000-28 000 lumens?

Just asking Smile

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BlueSwordM wrote:
Absolute madness.

Now, with better cells, like 20700/21700 cells and lower resistance contacts, do you think it would be possible to hit the max lumen output, being about 27 000-28 000 lumens?

Just asking Smile

Further improvement should become reality soon when the 8×18650 tube is available. I think this should have a more positive effect on output than 4×21700.

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BlueSwordM wrote:
Absolute madness.

Now, with better cells, like 20700/21700 cells and lower resistance contacts, do you think it would be possible to hit the max lumen output, being about 27 000-28 000 lumens?

Just asking Smile

With the P2 bin emitters there is some room for improvement if you could feed them more power. 25k lumens should be within the realm of possibilities I think.

The 80cri 4000k LED’s are already basically maxed out, I would not want to feed them much more power if I could. They are already being driven very hard indeed.

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BlueSwordM wrote:
Absolute madness.

Now, with better cells, like 20700/21700 cells and lower resistance contacts, do you think it would be possible to hit the max lumen output, being about 27 000-28 000 lumens?

Just asking Smile


You would need to determine how much amperage you would need to max out three of the 70.2. In the L6, which uses a pair of 26650 cells, people tend to get around 18 amps. In a custom GT using 4 18650 cells you can get 21-22 amps.

So if we say 20A is what we want, then with 3 emitters we would need 60 amps (at 6 volts, not 3 volts). I don’t see that happening with 18650 celks, even with the extended MT09R battery tube. I’m sure it will increase current and output, but I don’t think it would give 60 amps.

On the other hand, we might be able to get 60 amps using 4 21700 batteries.

DBCUSTOM has a custom light using 3 xhp70.2 and he tried 2 of the new Samsung 30T cells in it (in series to provide the proper voltage). It pulled about 48 amps! That’s pretty crazy right there. Each cell has about 10 to 12 milliohms of internal resistance and are capable of 40A continous. I bet 4 of them in a 2S2P setup could get us there assuming the springs and driver could handle the current.

So to answer your question, Yes.

But why do that when you can build a 4 emitter light and run them at a more efficient level? 4 emitters at the same 60 amp level (15A each instead of 20A) would put out 34,400 lumen!

Anyway, hope that helps.

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hIKARInoob wrote:

Further improvement should become reality soon when the 8×18650 tube is available. I think this should have a more positive effect on output than 4×21700.

It depends on the cell. 4 of the new 30T cells should outperform 8 30Q as far as amperage. I think about 25% more amperage, but you trade off run time.

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Sorry guys with everything that has been going on I totally forgot to mention that Dale's daughter is back home and is feeling much better.

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Waiting for the beamshot of the MT03 too! from 8750 lumen to 20k lumen is very impressive! And I love flood lights… can’t wait to see how it’s going to do…
Also side question… TA do you mod other lights too? such as MF01… the UI on that isn’t very good and I want to have ramp mod on that too (plus some extra power lol)

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yuhsin91123 wrote:
Waiting for the beamshot of the MT03 too! from 8750 lumen to 20k lumen is very impressive! And I love flood lights… can’t wait to see how it’s going to do… Also side question… TA do you mod other lights too? such as MF01… the UI on that isn’t very good and I want to have ramp mod on that too (plus some extra power lol)

I can indeed mod other lights as well if it is worth my time. I have had a few MT07’s sent my way and have an S70 and L6 heading this way I think as well as a few other lights.

It just depends on if I think I can make a worthwhile improvement to the light. I don’t want people wasting their money for lackluster results.

In the case of the MF01, I have not personally seen one so I am not sure what improvements there are to be made with it. I am sure they are possible, just not sure what they are without pulling it apart for myself.

At one point Banggood wanted me to make a new driver for the MF01 or MF03 but I never really heard back from them. I think they actually sent me a prototype driver for the MF03 to look at but no light to try it in Facepalm

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