How you doin' fellows?

Right now I am undergoing two dispute procedures for both 4x 30Q and 4x 25R packs. 30Q cells purchased from liitokala Faketory Store (725333)  and 25R ones from  lietokala Official Store (217753).

30Q cells have 4x lobed top, higher internal resistance and capacity about matches, but not as consistent as genuine cells. The 25Rs have a 3x lobed (but different) top, higher capacity, higher internal resistance and also lack genuine cells' consistency.

I've opted for “product not as described” and half refunds, sellers do not seem very cooperative despite this though.

We'll see how it goes, but I think it's pretty much nailed down.

Did you thought… if getting a PayPal refund is easy in this regard, did I found a mine of free li-ion cells?

Cheers

@Barkuti
You posted you wrote to Samsung about the four hole cap. Did they respond?

joechina wrote:

@Barkuti
You posted you wrote to Samsung about the four hole cap. Did they respond?

Cheers

I’ve got 4 NCR18650B with tabs from LiitoKala Official Flagship Store
I suspect them being counterfight. The wrapper is bit different (tipical wrinkles on both sides) and letters fonts are different too. Before any disputes I’ll do discharge test with curve plot in parallel with unused geniue I’ve got two years ago . This will definitively show what cell is really inside.
For additional comparation I’ve ordered same from VariCore Official Store but it will take time…

Recorded in a single unrehearsed shot to be used as dispute evidence. Sorry for my rough pronunciation.

Have fun! 

I bought four. They’ve taken like two and a half months to get here. The worst shipping period I’ve ever experienced from a seller. They’re just as everyone else has described, fake but I literally CBA’d to start a dispute for the sake of less than a tenner. I’ve left feedback stating they’re not genuine.

scrumpypaul wrote:

… The worst shipping period I've ever experienced from a seller. They're just as everyone else has described, fake but I literally CBA'd to start a dispute for the sake of less than a tenner. I've left feedback stating they're not genuine.

Please understand they use the absolutely cheapest shipping service available, maybe even to the point of declaring the contents as “something not li-ion cells”. FastTech only quotes me shipping for cells via two carrier services, “PostNL” airmail or “China Post” (slow) ground shipping, and neither is free so this is the reason those sellers are using hacks for super cheap shipping.

With regards to going dispute I've done it for my 30Q 4-pack and even for a 25R 4-pack (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/liitokala-for-samsung-18650-2500mah-lithium-battery-25r-inr1865025r-20a-battery-for-electronic-cigarette-Free-shipping/32800243313.html). Paid for PostNL in that last order, got fakes and I've attained half refund favourable resolution. It really is not that much about the money, but to get the AliExpress Case Management Team more aware of what is going on in their yard. My 30Q review has been a 2/5 because the capacity is there, packaging was good and they may be HG2s (still to determine). The 25R order (from store number 217753) is gonna receive a major spank in the ass, not only less consistent fake cells but the seller, literally Ashley zhang caps typo included, was using a photo of Elsa Pataky. See  here.

From now on and until something changes in this respect, I'll stay away from AliExpress for ordering big OEM high discharge cells.

Made discharge test to compare geniue Panasonic NCR18650B to tabbed ones I’ve got from LiitoKala Official Flagship Store

I’ve got almost the same capacity at 2A, but the curve looks quite different. Wondering which cells are really under wrapper. Funny enough voltage curve is higher for the most of the time. Will try to use HKJ data to compare.

PS. The closest match by curve in HKJ comparator was Sanyo NCR18650BF/BL 3350mAh, but not by looking at them. I think I’ll need to unwrapp them.

Got my 30Q and 25R half refunds, but in the 25R case the cell appearances didn't convinced the AliExpress Case Management Team. My photos were very clear and well focused, so fuck with that and them. They bite the bullet because capacity was different, sent them combined photos of my Lii-500 result display shots.

There's some cylindrical li-ion cell crime syndicate out there in china. They're mass rewrapping cells, obviously. Hope they get spanked, preferably soon.

Cheers

ledoman wrote:

Made discharge test to compare geniue Panasonic NCR18650B.

abacab wrote:

…
I will be very interested in your findings as i got the same 18650`s from that store and they were all 5 x lobed top, all there capacity's were above 3200mah.

Roll the dice! 
I wonder what cycle life we can expect from all these unknown cells. Main problem here is: do we need to go through all this uncertainty? If we could get the cells in their original OEM wraps at least we would have a nice chance to get a datasheet and we wouldn't feed those criminals.

My $0.02

I received fake 30-Qs and fake VTC5s/VTC6s from both Liitokala stores on Aliexpress. I filed several disputes. Two transactions were PayPal guaranteed and PayPal refunded my purchase.
I had ordered 8 VTC5s in a separate order and didn’t use Paypal. Regarding that order, I was asked to return the products for refund but unfortunately the shipping cost outweighs to purchase so i let it go.
There is that old saying “If it’s too good to be true”….
I learned from it. Aliexpress buyer protection is a joke and Liitokala “official store” sells fakes.

wstrachan, that old saying has nothing to do with truth unless we believe in it (I don't).

Conversely, where I live I learned “the saying of the three Bs”: “Bueno, Bonito y Barato”, which translates into “good, beautiful and cheap” all at the same time. And you can believe I do generally find amazing true deals like paying €1.25 for five USB micro-B to type-C adapters, keychain ready, in multiple colors plus S&H included.

AliExpress buyer protection is what it is. The bad sellers are usually uncooperative and you need to provide clear proofs of the problem and be in the know of the corresponding dispute procedure intricacies, all of which takes time. However, if you let them go with the loot for free I believe you're only giving them further reasons to continue with their shitty behaviour.

I have a question: is it easy to recover your money via PayPal claim? This could be really interesting to get cells for free and bust their scoundrelly tactics. 

Cheers

I got a pp refund.. I explained, without much scotch, the situation..
Pp refunded me but said they weren’t penalizing the seller. So yeah,I got some free unknown batteries.. But the seller felt no reprecussions

I think its best to go for a 50% refund if you put in a Aliexpress claim for fake battery’s, it doesn’t leave you open to the old “return it and we will refund” argument.

Barkuti wrote:

I wonder what cycle life we can expect from all these unknown cells.

good question, these fake Panasonic NCR18650B i got (4) all come in at over 3200mah with highest 3350mah, i originally thought maybe sanyo but they have 3 loped tops and the fakes have 5, curious.

justanotherguy wrote:

I got a pp refund.. I explained, without much scotch, the situation..
Pp refunded me but said they weren't penalizing the seller. So yeah,I got some free unknown batteries.. But the seller felt no reprecussions

Something's very wrong there. I understand PayPal adds up a small fee to the price but, if they are refunding crooked orders without recouping the money from these AliExpress' criminals, sellers and their endorsing AliExpress Case Management Team colleagues included, this may not last long and I wish so. 

I did get to keep the two orders of batteries when filing the claim on paypal though I don’t really know what they are or if they are safe or not. The rub is, just as others posted, the seller was not penalized whatsoever.
I have made claims through aliexpress before and seldom was my proof accepted even though clear pictures and video was provided.
There are bad sellers everywhere, especially when batteries are concerned but I did not expect a “Liitokala official store” to be a BS seller.
I would very much like to get these aliexpress sellers in trouble.

wstrachan, I'm pretty sure the batteries are safe to use and of decent quality. They come from inland known (chinese or whatever) cell OEMs, I believe. Like Shenzen Yongdeli (Yodeli) and Chang Jiang FST (can someone find CJ FST's official website? Thanks). Look at some Chang Jiang FST cells (penta lobe tops found!):

Seen some 3350mAh specced cells from them, too. 

Of course pretty sure cells from these OEMs are a lot cheaper. This doesn't gives them the right to pass them as what they're not. 

Cheers

Appreciate the links. Thank you.

BlueSwordM wrote:

They are a reliable seller. Plenty of guys and gals have bought cells from them, no problems at all.

Button top Samsung 30Qs:
https://www.banggood.com/4PCS-Samsung-INR18650-30Q-3000mAh-Unprotected-B...

From the US:
https://liionwholesale.com/collections/batteries/products/samsung-inr186...

abacab wrote:

ledoman wrote:

Made discharge test to compare geniue Panasonic NCR18650B.

I will be very interested in your findings as i got the same 18650`s from that store and they were all 5 x lobed top, all there capacity’s were above 3200mah.

Will try to ask HKJ if he can check my data against his. If Barkuti is right with those chinese sources, HKJ will have a lot of work to do to test them.

Hello, unfortunately I got fake cells from liitokala Official Store (217753), ordered 30 25R’s (M variant) in 08/07/18 and received them 07/08/18.

First sight I knew something was wrong, the shrink wrap had the famous lines and upon closer inspection the top is 3 lobed but with wider lobes.

Weighted two of them with a ‘‘precision scale’‘, 46.7g and 47.3g

I charged two of them and discharged in the EBC-A10, confirmed they are fake cells, first one gave 2631mAh (8,42Wh), the second gave 2681mAh (8,52Wh) both at 10A discharge, the cells got really hot, measured between 60~70ºc with a infrared thermometer (20ºc Ambient).

Proceed with opening dispute, demanded full refund and uploaded some evidence.

Discharge test.

First and last time buying batteries on AliExpress it’s just no worth the hassle…

The evidence sent.

If anyone wants more pictures or tests just ask.

I can hear you VictorW. Hope you can manage to achieve something better than me, but that will depend on your chosen beliefs.
I was going to be polite but while writing this up someone rang the bell and when I returned, all my post was gone. So bear with me.
I filed a “product not as described” dispute and requested half refund.
Since I had two brand new genuine Samsung 25R cells I submitted comparative Lii-500 capacity tests plus top and body photos, now filed in the product feedback. See them below. Please note there's no need to send feedback by the time you receive a product, please don't do this unless you are able to properly know if the product is right, you have like a month of available time to submit feedback (and properly spank their asses if required).

The AliExpress Case Management Team motherfuckers ridiculously did not accepted my “appearance not as described” claim, obviously they need coke-bottle glasses (and mind reprogramming). They did accepted “capacity not as described”, though.

Cheers

u are asking for trouble only buying from ali.. if something is too good to be true it usually is.

I bet Chinese are reading this thread so they can improve fakes to look more and more like originals

Believe in whatever, and so you will experience.

My particular above experiences were influenced by spirits. Lesson learned. But please, don't go with the can't be arsed to open dispute or whatever negative thoughts, if it happened to you is because you attracted it, so defend your nuts! Could the allies have won WW2 with such kind of pessimistic thinking? 

Cheers

I know mortuus, but here in Brazil there is no legit supplier of 18650. One 25R is 11usd and gearbest and so on don’t ship here, I tried AliExpress… Well you live and you learn.

I’m dragging this dispute until I can or until the mindless robots at Ali support shut me down

Does anyone here knows which AE seller sells genuine Littokala batteries? Or perhaps which seller is the actual “Littokala” store??? All this fake Littokala “direct” and “official” sellers are making it impossible to diferentiate which one is the genuine Littokala store.

ssschen, what makes you think there's a “genuine” LietoKala store? (pun intended)

All I see is a bunch of mendacious AliExpress sellers wanting to sell stuff. Period.

Oh! It's “LiitoKala”, not “LittoKala”.

Cheers

Barkuti wrote:

ssschen, what makes you think there’s a “genuine” LietoKala store? (pun intended)

All I see is a bunch of mendacious AliExpress sellers wanting to sell stuff. Period.

Oh! It’s “LiitoKala”, not “LittoKala”.

 

Cheers

You got me there with the spelling. In my defence, I was lazy, so I copied and pasted it from the title of this thread without even noticing!

Since AE is quite big in China, I imagine LiitoKala surely must have a presence/store on AE??????????

Mmmkay ssschen, let's assume there's a LiitoKala Official Store in AliExpress which is “more official” than the others (AliExpress sellers can change their store name anytime). If so, there should be any sort of reference to it in their “official” chinese website: http://www.liitokala.com.cn

The above presumption is sort of true, as if you tap/click over the lowest leftmost banner in the main page (  ), you are taken here: https://liitokalahongkong.aliexpress.com/store/217753

However, this store is known to sell fakes, like the rest (and tested by myself). What is more, they even had a nice photo of Elsa Pataky in that AE page arguing her was the “LiitoKala brand CEO” and her name was Ashley Zhang. See  here.

Cheers