New Luminus SST-20 (3535 size)

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DBSAR
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DavidEF wrote:
djozz wrote:
I fear that the E21A would give handling problems when reflowed by flashlight manufacturers, it is a delicate operation and I’m pretty sure they have no pick-n-place machines at Sofirn.

I’m all for the SST-20-W led, at these drive currents it is not that much less efficient than the LH351D. I think though that a few people regret that the colour temperature will not go up to 5000K anymore. Btw, I had understood from Barry (from a different discussion) that Sofirn is able to source the high CRI SST-20 leds.


Yeah, I was really wanting the lantern to go a little higher than 4000K for sure. However, since it’s a lantern and not a flashlight, I think 4000K would still be acceptable.

I do hope they can source 5000K LEDs too.

That Canadian flashlight guy & Lantern Guru -Den / DBSARlight

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DBSAR wrote:
DavidEF wrote:
djozz wrote:
I fear that the E21A would give handling problems when reflowed by flashlight manufacturers, it is a delicate operation and I’m pretty sure they have no pick-n-place machines at Sofirn.

I’m all for the SST-20-W led, at these drive currents it is not that much less efficient than the LH351D. I think though that a few people regret that the colour temperature will not go up to 5000K anymore. Btw, I had understood from Barry (from a different discussion) that Sofirn is able to source the high CRI SST-20 leds.


Yeah, I was really wanting the lantern to go a little higher than 4000K for sure. However, since it’s a lantern and not a flashlight, I think 4000K would still be acceptable.

I do hope they can source 5000K LEDs too.

If SST-20 is considered, 5000K is a very big step back (available only in ~65 CRI instead of ~95 CRI). If only SST-20 is used, this should be kept in mind.

coherent-rambling
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Has anyone made more progress with throw numbers before/after slicing? I’m curious whether it’s worth the risk, or if these things are “good enough” with the tiny little dome on. I’d love to have some options that came even remotely close to the Oslon White Flat for throw with warmer CCT and better CRI.

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@coherent, you’re asking about the sst-20 in general or in this particular light? I just happen to have pre & post slice throw numbers from an single led / reflectored light I built with an sst-20 two days ago if you’re just looking for general info.

Dome on the throw was 17,500kcd, after the slice and refocusing the little light was doing 33,200kcd. Tint and lumens both dropped ever so slightly.

 RIP  SPC Joey Riley, KIA 11/24/14. Now I am become death, the destroyer of worlds.

coherent-rambling
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Cereal_killer, I was curious about the SST20 in general, so your numbers are perfect. Nearly double the Cd and 40% more throw, sounds like I need to buy a few extras to try slicing. Do you have any advice for getting a good, clean result?

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Cereal_killer wrote:
@coherent, you’re asking about the sst-20 in general or in this particular light? I just happen to have pre & post slice throw numbers from an single led / reflectored light I built with an sst-20 two days ago if you’re just looking for general info.

Dome on the throw was 17,500kcd, after the slice and refocusing the little light was doing 33,200kcd. Tint and lumens both dropped ever so slightly.

Wow, that’s quite a difference for an LED that’s already pretty throwy to begin with. How did you do the slice?

Anthon
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where to buy good SST20 4000k or 5000k? I can only find ones above bbl

Cereal_killer
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Bob_McBob wrote:
Cereal_killer wrote:
Dome on the throw was 17,500kcd, after the slice and refocusing the little light was doing 33,200kcd. Tint and lumens both dropped ever so slightly.

Wow, that’s quite a difference for an LED that’s already pretty throwy to begin with. How did you do the slice?

Sorry just saw this, I did the washer method. Slice with a fresh new blade that you scrub with alcohol before using.
To be honest, had I spent the time focusing the emitter pre-slice that I did focusing it post-slice the difference would be less dramatic. I probably could of got the domed emitter focused a good bit better, just an amature best guess here but I’d say, if I was as meticulous with it as I was the sliced one I probably could of gotten it so the difference was <25% increase instead of nearly 50%.

I only spent 10min focusing it the first time around, only a few tries sanding the disk. I had set a goal of 40kcd for the light and I could see I needed something dramatic so I did the slice before spending much time on it.

 RIP  SPC Joey Riley, KIA 11/24/14. Now I am become death, the destroyer of worlds.

Cereal_killer
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Oh I forgot, I came back to this thread to ask what my options were for 5000k SST-20’s currently for sale in the highest output bin (the base 70cri version will be fine for this one)?

 RIP  SPC Joey Riley, KIA 11/24/14. Now I am become death, the destroyer of worlds.

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The highest bin available to consumers now is the L3 Flux Bin SST-20 5000k:
http://kaidomain.com/Luminus-SST-20-L3-DA-Neutral-White-5000K-LED-Emitter

My very own high current Beryllium Copper springs Gen 3:
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/67401
Liitokala Aliexpress Stores Battery Fraud: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/60547

Bob_McBob
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I have a 3500K SST-20 from BlueSwordM/Mouser in my Emisar D1S right now. Using a GA (being conservative) it makes about 680 lumens and 595m throw vs. 1020 lumens and 665m with the stock 5D XP-L HI. Tint is acceptable and everything on the trail looks much, much nicer thanks to the dramatically better CRI (especially R9).

Today I tried a couple of slice dedomes. The first one went fine, but the second I shaved a little close and clipped a bond wire, which melted the moment I turned it on. With the “good” dedome, output is 30% lower (470 lumens) and I gained a grand total of 5m throw. The hotspot is much smaller and there is less corona, and subjectively the tint is a lot rosier. It’s possible I would gain more throw by playing around with the focus, but I don’t have the material to do it here right now.

EasyB
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The effectiveness of slicing is sensitive to the thickness of silicone remaining over the die. If it’s not very thin light can reflect off the silicone/air interface and bounce down to the side of the die where it’s more likely to be lost. This reduces the output and reduces the throw gain. If the silicone is very thin this reflecting light will bounce back to the die where it increases the die luminance.

With some of these LEDs the bond wires are tall which makes it harder to get a close cut.

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A theory: the reason that by slicing a warm/high CRI led you loose so much output (20+% compared to 10% for cool white)is that there is much less blue light to be recycled to turn into more visible green, and at the same time phosfors are present that recycle green into less visible red.
I have not fully thought this over, but I have seen with the spectrometer that when a high CRI led is illuminated with 530nm green light, apart from scattered green you can measure some red coming off the led.

Bob_McBob
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EasyB wrote:
The effectiveness of slicing is sensitive to the thickness of silicone remaining over the die. If it’s not very thin light can reflect off the silicone/air interface and bounce down to the side of the die where it’s more likely to be lost. This reduces the output and reduces the throw gain. If the silicone is very thin this reflecting light will bounce back to the die where it increases the die luminance.

With some of these LEDs the bond wires are tall which makes it harder to get a close cut.

I discovered that after a couple more attempts. Shaving it so thin I accidentally took off a bit of phosphor on one edge got me up to 715m throw. As you know from your own attempts you need to give the bond wires a wide berth because they stick up so much, and I’ve managed to ruin two that way so far. Working on #4 right now; wish I ordered more than 10 of these!

In any case this is a very promising LED for a high CRI thrower. 600m throw to start is quite acceptable, and increasing that another 100m with a rosier tint is the icing on the cake. I think it’s just a matter of grabbing half a dozen and trying for the best slice possible.

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Slice #4 got me 670m throw with no damage to the phosphor, which I’m quite happy with. It has always bothered me that no matter how many boutique high CRI modded lights I carry, I’m still stuck with a CRI 70 thrower that washes out everything in nature. This SST-20 is throwing just as well as the stock XP-L HI and looks way better out on the trail. I look forward to acquiring a nice tint bin in 4000K which will match my other lights better and probably throw even further. Next up is seeing whether it can handle a VTC6 when it’s pulling 5.5A off a GA, but I’ll be using the trimmed phosphor sample for that!

Here’s the first bond wire that melted if anyone’s interested.

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is the CRI95 the main thing about the SST20-W?

I tested a SST20 5000k in a C8+ at 2.8A and measured 550m throw (less than the stock xpl hi)

Then put a SST20-W 4000k and a LD-A4 driver at 5A: I measured 500m throw

the 4000k needs 2A more and still throws less than the 5000k, a XPL-HI V2 5D will outthrow the 4000k SST-20

Maybe I’m not paying attention to CRI but is it worth to lose such amount of light for a better CRI? the LH351Ds are 90CRI and are similar in brightness to the XPL/XPL2

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Anthon wrote:
is the CRI95 the main thing about the SST20-W?

I tested a SST20 5000k in a C8+ at 2.8A and measured 550m throw (less than the stock xpl hi)

Then put a SST20-W 4000k and a LD-A4 driver at 5A: I measured 500m throw

the 4000k needs 2A more and still throws less than the 5000k, a XPL-HI V2 5D will outthrow the 4000k SST-20

Maybe I’m not paying attention to CRI but is it worth to lose such amount of light for a better CRI? the LH351Ds are 90CRI and are similar in brightness to the XPL/XPL2


Going over 90CRI with good tint costs you at least 40% output compaired to a low CRI cool white version of the same led. This is also mostly true for the LH351D, but that is just a very high output led because of the very large die, low CRI versions of the LH351D have even more output. They did cheat a bit with the high CRI LH351D, the CRI standard is not ideally defined, so you can get away with putting too much green in the spectrum (green light contributes maximal to output measured in lumen) without loss of CRI. So many the high CRI leds have an ugly greenish tint while measuring a great CRI.

And yes, very high CRI is the big thing about the 4000K and 3000K SST-20. How you like that is a very personal thing. If you are in the habit of chasing crooks around the block, I assume that high CRI is wasted on you, but in nature hikes I can imagine high CRI being pleasant enough to give in some lumens.

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How did you get less throw with the SST-20 5000k?

550m is above what an XP-L HI does in a 2.8A C8+.

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http://budgetlightforum.com/node/67401
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djozz wrote:
Anthon wrote:
is the CRI95 the main thing about the SST20-W?

I tested a SST20 5000k in a C8+ at 2.8A and measured 550m throw (less than the stock xpl hi)

Then put a SST20-W 4000k and a LD-A4 driver at 5A: I measured 500m throw

the 4000k needs 2A more and still throws less than the 5000k, a XPL-HI V2 5D will outthrow the 4000k SST-20

Maybe I’m not paying attention to CRI but is it worth to lose such amount of light for a better CRI? the LH351Ds are 90CRI and are similar in brightness to the XPL/XPL2


Going over 90CRI costs you at least 40% output compaired to a low CRI cool white version of the same led. This is also true for the LH351D, but that is just a very high output led because of the very large die, low CRI versions of the LH351D have even more output.

And yes, very high CRI is the big thing about the 4000K and 3000K SST-20. How you like that is a very personal thing. If you are in the habit of chasing crooks around the block, I assume that high CRI is wasted on you, but in nature hikes I can imagine high CRI being pleasant enough to give in some lumens.


I found that my ability to tell trail features apart (in that case: leaves vs. rocks) was significantly hampered with a CRI70 light. Since then I’m a big proponent of going higher than that.
At the same time I’m not convinced that more than 80 would be worth it for me.

This is a rare attitude, most tend to prefer either 70 or 90++. Not having an intermediate choice I tend to go with the Hi-CRI people and pick 90+. But I’m not really happy about the lumen loss…

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The SST-20 also has a very high R9 value of over 90, that’s also where a good chunk of the efficacy penalty is to.

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Yep.

The 3500k SST-20 R9580 makes everything look absolutely gorgeous, and has better dynamic range compared to an incan light.

My very own high current Beryllium Copper springs Gen 3:
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/67401
Liitokala Aliexpress Stores Battery Fraud: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/60547

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*70CRI for me is always too ugly to accept, with a soft spot for the 4000K Luxeon V because of the superb tint
*80CRI is great for outdoors, beyond 80CRI the tint is of more importance than increasing the CRI to 90
*90CRI is for EDC, where output and throw are less imprtant than a pleasant illumination close-by.

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BlueSwordM wrote:
Yep.

The 3500k SST-20 R9580 makes everything look absolutely gorgeous, and has better dynamic range compared to an incan light.

I think with all this new led recently, do you think it make sense for someone who have good knowledge of market to make a clear list of the best high cri led on market today, and best tint close to black body radiation? I think this sst20 and nichia 219b(v2?) and clemence nichia led (which one? e21?) have best performance so far, but good to make list somewhere and put on sticky?

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clientequator wrote:
BlueSwordM wrote:
Yep.

The 3500k SST-20 R9580 makes everything look absolutely gorgeous, and has better dynamic range compared to an incan light.

I think with all this new led recently, do you think it make sense for someone who have good knowledge of market to make a clear list of the best high cri led on market today, and best tint close to black body radiation? I think this sst20 and nichia 219b(v2?) and clemence nichia led (which one? e21?) have best performance so far, but good to make list somewhere and put on sticky?

There are just too many variables. The nichia e21/optisolis are lower power, super high cri but picky about optics and require special mcpcb. sst20 varies a lot based on current, low current = above bbl, high current = close to or below bbl. 219b is unobtainable but also shifts far below bbl with high current but at least it starts out close.

There is still Samsung (above bbl often, sometimes not much above, super high output), Cree (XM-L mostly or diffused), Luxeon (MZ, diffused, super high output)

cetary
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I don’t notice the downward BBL shift on my SST-20’s that much, but it is there. When I run my quad emitter M2 in direct drive at 4.5 amps per emitter, then I notice it, but most use cases don’t quite require me to drive my emitters quite that hard.

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And you bring up another point. PWM drivers vs regulated will have yet another variable in your LED choice and resulting tint

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What is the effect of pwm vs non pwm drivers on tint of sst-20 or other emitters? Is CRI also effected or is that unrelated?

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If driver is mostly PWMing the FET channel the tint will look like it does at higher currents throughout more of the modes.

If the driver is regulated the the tint will gradually change as you increase current.

For SST-20 this generally means closer or below bbl using FET or high current.

CRI goes down too but not tremendously and this LED is already very high CRI, that is the least of its downsides.

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Hi all,

Will three of these SST20s fit under a Carclo optic with out drilling it?

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vestureofblood wrote:
Hi all, Will three of these SST20s fit under a Carclo optic with out drilling it?

 

 In regular triple config with 10507?

Yes, the dome is tiny and no need for mod 

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