WTS: Calibration lights for DIY integrating spheres / lumen tubes - 67 € -

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Texas_Ace
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I use the BLF348 for the low calibration and the mid mode of the S2+ for the mid range calibration but honestly if the mid mode on the S2+ is good the 348 has always matched up as well.

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ToyKeeper wrote:
JasonWW wrote:
Nice, are you building your own integrating sphere?
No, Dale took pity on me and is sending a nice calibrated lumen tube. It'll put my "integrating milk carton" to shame, and eliminate the need to use my other device, the "integrating bathroom". I also finally ordered some calibration lights to go with it, which might be here by the end of the month. So... I'm basically joining the club because I got a kick in the pants. But, like, in a nice way. :)

This gives me a chuckle!  My first measuring space was the small bathroom in the house and now, and you may have seen it, but I have an integrating 68 quart Coleman cooler. So, I call them 'Coleman Lumens'.

TK, Absorbing yours and others comments about determining OTF output with a DMM and improving my technique on that front, I've realized that OTF lumens are the real test... and has saved me $40.00 for a new clamp meter.  This discussion on throwier v's flooder lights really helps me, going forward, on how to calibrate the readings (so far, 25 lights & combinations) with my Budget Lumen Measuring Rig.

Maukka, Your work is very much appreciated.  Thank you!

 

EDC

FW3A, SST20 4000K || S21A, Crescendo Mtn20DD, LH351D 4000K || SP32A, SST40 5000K

Recent/ongoing Mods:

S2+, TexAven 17mm, LH351D | S21A, Crescendo 20mm, XPL HI 5000K | L2 w/Mtn17DD Zener Guppydrv, XHP-50 | C8+ OP, DD XHP-50

SP32A w/SST40 5000K | TIR Upgrades | EagleTac clip | Ultrafire C2 w/6A 20mm & LH351D | S2+, Biscotti, Nichia 219C 2700K |

Reviews:

Sofirn SP31 v2.0 Tactical Flashlight (Cree XPL HI) || Sofirn SD05 Scuba Diving Flashlight || Sofirn SC31 USB Rechargeable (XP-G3) || Sofirn SC31 Pro 5000K

ver_ivanz007
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Hi Maukka,

Are you still selling calibrated lights? I am from the Philiipines and I want to use your calibrated lights for my lumentube.

  • My current lights: Astrolux MF01 - Astrolux S43 - Astrolux FT03 - Convoy L6 - Nitecore MH20 - Nitecore TIP - Nitecore TUP - Convoy M3 - Convoy C8+ - Astrolux C8 - Astrolux MF01 Mini - Full Copper - Acebeam K30GT SBT90.2 - Massdrop tool AAA Copper and Brass - Nitecore Tip2
maukka
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Yes, I’ll send you a message.

ver_ivanz007
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Thank you very much!

  • My current lights: Astrolux MF01 - Astrolux S43 - Astrolux FT03 - Convoy L6 - Nitecore MH20 - Nitecore TIP - Nitecore TUP - Convoy M3 - Convoy C8+ - Astrolux C8 - Astrolux MF01 Mini - Full Copper - Acebeam K30GT SBT90.2 - Massdrop tool AAA Copper and Brass - Nitecore Tip2
M4D M4X
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Hi Maukka! 

 

I would like to buy a light for my 150mm tube built by ZozzV6 (he used your lights set to set the filters) 

I think one light with 2 known steps should be enough to double check the tube now and then? 

PLEASE NOTE
i do not work in "reviews, deals and codes" for the time being
maybe M4D M4X will return one day, but until then:

THANK YOU FOR YEARS OF YOUR SUPPORT AND FRIENDLY CONTACTS!

maukka
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One brightness setting per calibration light is plenty, since something catastrophic would have to happen to the lux meter for it not to be linear. Using two lights is recommended as small differences in beam profile, CCT and CRI helps checking for multiple possible issues and also reveals problems in integration and or meter if the initial values start to drift.

It’s normal for the lumens for both lights to be not exactly spot on as reported because of lux meter sensitivity inaccuracies, but if the difference between them changes suddenly, that’s a good indicator of something gone wrong with the setup.

I have 5 BLF348s left, but only one low CRI S2+. None of them have been measured at the moment.

I have 3 high CRI S2+ with SST20 4000K coming in shortly, but if you want to check your meter and sphere against a low and high CRI lights, I can have the S2+ and BLF348 bundled for you tomorrow. The SST20 versions will be available next week at the earliest.

I will configure these new SST20 S2+ for 100% mode only. They have 3×7135 chips and are quite idiotproof in this configuration.

M4D M4X
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idiotproof sounds like made for me Wink


i just want a easy (and non expensive) way to check my equipment 

whatever you suggest - i will "maukka said so..." use against any doubts Big Smile

PLEASE NOTE
i do not work in "reviews, deals and codes" for the time being
maybe M4D M4X will return one day, but until then:

THANK YOU FOR YEARS OF YOUR SUPPORT AND FRIENDLY CONTACTS!

hcanning
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Hi everyone,

I bought the calibration lights from Maukka (great service, and super quick delivery!) but after “calibrating” my lumen tube and getting the multipliers for the two calibration lights, all my other lights are reading quite low.

Here’s what my tube looks like. I’m not sure if it’s just a bad design and if I need to tweak it or start again in a different shape, or…?

I make sure to cover the glass panel with a black cloth when a light is sitting on it. I’ve tried putting a piece of paper under the glass to act as a diffuser but it doesn’t really change the accuracy of the results, it just lowers the lux reading. I can in fact get the lux : lumen ratio almost 1:1 with my calibration lights this way, but it still makes all my other lights read either far too high or far too low.

Am I missing something really obvious?

Notable lights: Q8 with 4 x 3V XHP50.2, bypassed springs, brass driver and tailcap screws, Anduril firmware, removed anodisation, AR glass, warm white switch LEDs (16,800lm)  |  Convoy S2+ with triple Luxeon V 4000k, Led4Power B4 Driver, Carclo 10507, bypassed springs (2900lm)  |   D18 in sand  |  D4V2 in sand  |  D4S in grey  |   FW3A with warm white XP-L HI  |   KR4 Mule in blue

maukka
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Welcome to the world of real lumens.

Joking aside, could you list some lights and their emitters and their outputs that you have tested? Preferably on some lower level like at 1×7135 on that Emisar you seem to have.

For good integration, usually more bends than one with PVC tubes is useful. Also a white surface at the input port is preferred in addition to some diffusion.

djozz
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I bought some white PVC piping the other day and started fiddling and testing, making various perspex diffusers of different opaqities (positioned just before the first bend), and entrance hole reducers with aluminium tape on the inside (both do help significantly, in making light bounce around a bit in the entrance cavity) , and I must say that it is a real challenge to make this system really integrate. And everything after the first bend does not add to integration, extra bends mostly reduce the light. In the end I got reasonably recognisable measurements for the common reflector flashlights (if pointed straight down on the diffusor!), but a zoomie in flood modus was over 25% off. Although it provides ballpark numbers, I’d say it is more of a light reducer than an integrator. Unexpectedly, my pipe design does not change CCT that much but does increase duv enormously. If you look at the spectrum I can see why: both the blue peak is reduced, and a broad band around 600nm, result: green. The portion over 630 nm is increased again. This may all be the result of the specific type of PVC that I got (it looked plain white though). I may do a post about my findings, but then, maybe not. My conclusion: I stick to spheres for integration Innocent

maukka
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Cool info, djozz! I’ve also wanted to make a PVC tube for checking how they integrate.

JasonWW
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hcanning wrote:
Hi everyone,

I bought the calibration lights from Maukka (great service, and super quick delivery!) but after “calibrating” my lumen tube and getting the multipliers for the two calibration lights, all my other lights are reading quite low.

Here’s what my tube looks like. I’m not sure if it’s just a bad design and if I need to tweak it or start again in a different shape, or…?

I make sure to cover the glass panel with a black cloth when a light is sitting on it. I’ve tried putting a piece of paper under the glass to act as a diffuser but it doesn’t really change the accuracy of the results, it just lowers the lux reading. I can in fact get the lux : lumen ratio almost 1:1 with my calibration lights this way, but it still makes all my other lights read either far too high or far too low.

Am I missing something really obvious?


.


That is not such a great design. Firstly, don’t use a black cloth, that absorbs a lot of light. You want to use something reflective to bounce the light towards the sensor.

Second is your not really blending up or diffusing the light. A tight focused beam light is probably going to read higher than a wide focused beam. You may be getting direct reflections on the sensor which will make the readings wonky. The middle section doesn’t need to be so long. Just having more bends will help break up the light beams. Try removing the end where the sensor is and shine your light in normally. See if the area where the sensor is gets “smooth” light or splotchy light. You’ve seen the Texas_Ace Lumen Tube, right? Link is in my sig. It’s got more bends plus 3 translucent diffusers to help smooth out the light before it gets to the sensor. This smoothing or “integrating” of the light is the key job of an integrating sphere. Yours is severely lacking in this department.

Lumen tubes are also sensitive to distance. Having a piece of glass that you sit the light is convenient, but it also moves the led closer or further away depending on the reflector or optic depth. This leads to inconsistencies. This doesn’t matter as much with ball shaped integrating spheres. Try making those other changes and see if using the glass is okay for you or not.

Texas Ace Lumen Tube and JoshK Sphere calibrated with Maukka lights

Click this to go to signature links. I'm still around, just not reading many new threads.

maukka
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I just got the three SST20 4000K CRI90 Convoy S2+. So two more BLF348 + S2+ kits are ready to go after one S2+ was reserved for M4D M4X.

Yokiamy
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I recenltly made one myself and indeed, getting it accurate for all type of lights is VERY difficult.
However, i ended up with a setup which is quite satisfying and quite accurate
And yes, welcome to the world of real lumens. Only just now i realize how unreliable the human eye seems to be.

I did not realize how fast output drops, how much effect temperature, cell type, condition and charging percentage affects the output. Now i do.

ToyKeeper
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djozz wrote:
it is a real challenge to make this system really integrate.

It really is. I fiddled with mine for quite a while trying to get the results to be more consistent and less dependent on factors like beam shape. The end result could certainly still use some improvements, but it’s at least okay-ish now.

What I did to make it work better was giving it something similar to one-way valves. Using some biased diffuser sheets which allow more light to pass in one direction than in the other seemed pretty helpful. There is one right at the entry, pointing in. Another just after the first bend, pointing forward. Then one a few cm before the sensor, pointing backward. Aside from diffusing the light three times, this also seems to help reduce the throw bias and get the light to bounce around more before it hits the sensor.

For calibration, I’m using a maukka S2+, a maukka BLF-348, and a ROT66-219 from the same batch as maukka’s. The correction factor is set so that all three lights measure within 2% of expected values. But I expect my actual margin of error is much, much larger… mostly because it’s not a sphere.

Comparing tube results to my old milk carton, the tube gets values anywhere from 75% to 110% of what the milk carton says… with the highest numbers being throwy lights and the lowest numbers being floody lights. An Emisar D1S, for example, measures 110% between the two, while a ROT66 measures 85%.

So the tube certainly seems to favor throwy lights. Or the milk carton favors floody lights. Or both. Probably both.

djozz wrote:
My conclusion: I stick to spheres for integration

That’s probably the right conclusion. Smile

hcanning
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JasonWW wrote:
hcanning wrote:
Hi everyone,

I bought the calibration lights from Maukka (great service, and super quick delivery!) but after “calibrating” my lumen tube and getting the multipliers for the two calibration lights, all my other lights are reading quite low.

Here’s what my tube looks like. I’m not sure if it’s just a bad design and if I need to tweak it or start again in a different shape, or…?

I make sure to cover the glass panel with a black cloth when a light is sitting on it. I’ve tried putting a piece of paper under the glass to act as a diffuser but it doesn’t really change the accuracy of the results, it just lowers the lux reading. I can in fact get the lux : lumen ratio almost 1:1 with my calibration lights this way, but it still makes all my other lights read either far too high or far too low.

Am I missing something really obvious?


.


That is not such a great design. Firstly, don’t use a black cloth, that absorbs a lot of light. You want to use something reflective to bounce the light towards the sensor.

Second is your not really blending up or diffusing the light. A tight focused beam light is probably going to read higher than a wide focused beam. You may be getting direct reflections on the sensor which will make the readings wonky. The middle section doesn’t need to be so long. Just having more bends will help break up the light beams. Try removing the end where the sensor is and shine your light in normally. See if the area where the sensor is gets “smooth” light or splotchy light. You’ve seen the Texas_Ace Lumen Tube, right? Link is in my sig. It’s got more bends plus 3 translucent diffusers to help smooth out the light before it gets to the sensor. This smoothing or “integrating” of the light is the key job of an integrating sphere. Yours is severely lacking in this department.

Lumen tubes are also sensitive to distance. Having a piece of glass that you sit the light is convenient, but it also moves the led closer or further away depending on the reflector or optic depth. This leads to inconsistencies. This doesn’t matter as much with ball shaped integrating spheres. Try making those other changes and see if using the glass is okay for you or not.

Thanks for the advice! I’m going to head to the hardware store tomorrow and pick up some new, curvier PVC tubing and have a go at building a new one. I’ve also ordered some light diffuser sheets from eBay which I’ll add along the light path too.

How would you design the light “input” end? I’ve seen some people use foam as well.

At least I have calibrated lights now! Watch this space..

Notable lights: Q8 with 4 x 3V XHP50.2, bypassed springs, brass driver and tailcap screws, Anduril firmware, removed anodisation, AR glass, warm white switch LEDs (16,800lm)  |  Convoy S2+ with triple Luxeon V 4000k, Led4Power B4 Driver, Carclo 10507, bypassed springs (2900lm)  |   D18 in sand  |  D4V2 in sand  |  D4S in grey  |   FW3A with warm white XP-L HI  |   KR4 Mule in blue

JasonWW
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hcanning wrote:

How would you design the light “input” end? I’ve seen some people use foam as well.

At least I have calibrated lights now! Watch this space..


It’s definitely tricky. You want an opening sized just right. Both my TA Tube and JoshK Sphere have large openings with 4 or 5 adapters that have different inner diameter holes. This seems to work well. It also allows you to move the flashlight head in and out of the opening.

I’d like to have a big 6” adjustable aperture that was chrome plated on one side.

I don’t think they are made that big, though. Probably really expensive if they were available.

Texas Ace Lumen Tube and JoshK Sphere calibrated with Maukka lights

Click this to go to signature links. I'm still around, just not reading many new threads.

contactcr
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The latest revision of the Bobbersphere. Still not sure how well it does on different beam types, waiting on a more throwy light from maukka.



Extech LT45 meter with custom factor setting and laser cut discs that Texas_Ace uses on his tubes:



Internal baffle + diffuser:

hcanning
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OK so a quick redesign of my tube to make it bendier, and I have the following multiplication factors. There’s two sheets of diffuser in the middle.

BLF 348: 0.113
S2+: 0.126

With these multipliers, it gives the following results which are all too low. All are full power / turbo on freshly charged high current batteries. I’m pointing the light just inside the entrance and using the white cutout to close the hole a bit.

Olight M2R Neutral White: 1379lm
Olight X7R Marauder: 8316lm
Emisar D4S XP-L HD 3D: 3480lm
Emisar D4V2 SST-20 5000k: 3108lm

Improvement suggestions welcome.

Notable lights: Q8 with 4 x 3V XHP50.2, bypassed springs, brass driver and tailcap screws, Anduril firmware, removed anodisation, AR glass, warm white switch LEDs (16,800lm)  |  Convoy S2+ with triple Luxeon V 4000k, Led4Power B4 Driver, Carclo 10507, bypassed springs (2900lm)  |   D18 in sand  |  D4V2 in sand  |  D4S in grey  |   FW3A with warm white XP-L HI  |   KR4 Mule in blue

maukka
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It seems that your setup is biased towards cool (or low CRI) or throwy since the factor is much higher on the S2+. Also this would explains why the wide floody beam of the optics in the Emisars read low.

Did you use the average of those two correction factors for calculation. The S2+ factor would be more pertinent to the Olight M2R calculation. That one doesn’t seem too far off.

hcanning
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I changed it to the average now and it still shows the M2R as 1458 which is about 150lm low, and the X7R as 7887 which is about 4000lm low!

Notable lights: Q8 with 4 x 3V XHP50.2, bypassed springs, brass driver and tailcap screws, Anduril firmware, removed anodisation, AR glass, warm white switch LEDs (16,800lm)  |  Convoy S2+ with triple Luxeon V 4000k, Led4Power B4 Driver, Carclo 10507, bypassed springs (2900lm)  |   D18 in sand  |  D4V2 in sand  |  D4S in grey  |   FW3A with warm white XP-L HI  |   KR4 Mule in blue

maukka
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With the S2+ as the calibration reference, the M2R would read 1537 lm which would be pretty much bang on. I measured it at 1500 lumens which is what Olight also specifies it at. The X7R is much floodier, which explains part of the error, but my sample wasn’t near 12000 lumens either.

hcanning
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Thanks. So you think my design is biased too much towards lights with a tighter hotspot?

Measuring my BLF A6 yields 1172lm

My Astrolux C8 showed 1373lm

My S2+ with Samsund LH351D only 801lm when it should be a lot higher. But that’s neutral white and a lot floodier

It isn’t as consistent as I’d like Sad

Notable lights: Q8 with 4 x 3V XHP50.2, bypassed springs, brass driver and tailcap screws, Anduril firmware, removed anodisation, AR glass, warm white switch LEDs (16,800lm)  |  Convoy S2+ with triple Luxeon V 4000k, Led4Power B4 Driver, Carclo 10507, bypassed springs (2900lm)  |   D18 in sand  |  D4V2 in sand  |  D4S in grey  |   FW3A with warm white XP-L HI  |   KR4 Mule in blue

maukka
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My S2+ with 8×3175 and XP-L HI does 780 lumens so 800 lumens for LH351D seems reasonable. My A6 with XP-L HD 3D is 1200 lumens.

hcanning
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My LH351D S2+ has an A6 driver.. Should have said!

My A6 has a cool white XP-L HI

Notable lights: Q8 with 4 x 3V XHP50.2, bypassed springs, brass driver and tailcap screws, Anduril firmware, removed anodisation, AR glass, warm white switch LEDs (16,800lm)  |  Convoy S2+ with triple Luxeon V 4000k, Led4Power B4 Driver, Carclo 10507, bypassed springs (2900lm)  |   D18 in sand  |  D4V2 in sand  |  D4S in grey  |   FW3A with warm white XP-L HI  |   KR4 Mule in blue

Yokiamy
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maukka wrote:
My S2+ with 8×3175 and XP-L HI does 780 lumens so 800 lumens for LH351D seems reasonable. My A6 with XP-L HD 3D is 1200 lumens.

Wow, thanks for sharing this
My recently built lumen tube was reading almost the same numbers with a S2+ XPL HI-4B with 8*7135
I thought it was reading a bit low, but for other lights with given numbers, all my measurements weren’t to far off. It seems my setup is better than i thought !

I have tweaked the setup, this was the initial build

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hcanning wrote:
OK so a quick redesign of my tube to make it bendier, and I have the following multiplication factors.

BLF 348: 0.113
S2+: 0.126

maukka wrote:
It seems that your setup is biased towards cool (or low CRI) or throwy since the factor is much higher on the S2+.

I’m pretty sure his LX1330B lux meter is a bit more sensitive to cool white than it is to warm white (same for HS1010A). If your testing a cool white light, use the 0.126 factor and if measuring a warm white use the 0.113 factor. If the light is neutral white, use a factor like 0.120.

Most of my lights are CW with a few NW, so I set my lumen tube for CW readings. If I do measure a NW light I try to remember to add a little more to compensate. I forget the correct number, but something like 3 percent. WW might read 5-6 percent low.

Texas Ace Lumen Tube and JoshK Sphere calibrated with Maukka lights

Click this to go to signature links. I'm still around, just not reading many new threads.

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hcanning wrote:

OK, so a quick redesign of my tube to make it bendier, and I have the following multiplication factors. There’s two sheets of diffuser in the middle.

Improvement suggestions welcome.


That certainly looks better. You say you put two sheets of diffuser material in the middle? They are probably acting like a single sheet. It would probably be better to spread them out. That way you have partially diffused light coming from the first one and then hitting the 2nd sheet to further diffuse it.

I am trying to find out what others have measured the x7r turbo at. 31% below spec seems pretty big, but might be accurate. Manufacturers often over rate their products output, but I thought olight would be a bit closer than this.

Okay, it seems Maukka has tested the x7r. It was tricky for him to measure because the proximity sensor would reduce output. He measured 3 lower levels in his sphere, then measured all levels outside the sphere, I’m guessing like a ceiling bounce. Then he matched up the 3 lower levels and calculated the upper levels. He also says the 12,000 lumen rating from Olight is at Turn On, not 30 seconds. Ughh

Maukkas Turbo S measurements at 30 seconds were 9,700 lumen. Your still reading about 14% lower than him. Maybe the proximity sensor is reducing output? IDK.

Texas Ace Lumen Tube and JoshK Sphere calibrated with Maukka lights

Click this to go to signature links. I'm still around, just not reading many new threads.

maukka
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M4DM4X shows his honking tube which seems to be reading in line with the calibration lights. Good job!

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