DBSAR Lantern Mini-Review: -Zanflare T1 (UPDATE: Second T1 failed!

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DBSAR
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Coscar wrote:
Boy……. sure got quiet all of a sudden Sushi …….. Anyone else have temps?

I have been away for 5 days, and will try to do more testing this weekend.

That Canadian flashlight guy & Lantern Guru -Den / DBSARlight

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Aleister wrote:

Whatever breaks after a vent (tube, plastic housing) will break in a way we can’t predict if we don’t test it. Even a flying piece of plastic can be as good as a knife if it hits right, and that is if you are right about the tube having an easy way out for the gases. If a battery vents, it will increase the pressure inside a closed cylinder. So, no, no vent holes = possible pipe bomb.

Not true.
Let me easy some of your worries. We can predict up to a certain point. The battery tube in the T1 has two open ends. The bottom end has the cap screwed on so we still have the top, which is open. It only has a pcb screwed on top. It is by far and without doubt the weakest area. A little bit of pressure and the circuit board and plastic shell will go flying. There is zero chance it could build enough pressure to act anything like a pipe bomb. The construction of the T1 is very different from your typical flashlight.

Here is a pic of the battery tube.

So flying plastic, maybe.
Explosion with metal shrapnel, no.

If you really wanted to, you could add a safety vent to prevent the plastic housing from popping. Take a 1/4 rubber plug and drill a hole a bit smaller. Push the plug in flush and you have a water tight, emergency vent hole.

I don’t think I’m that worried about it. I’ll make sure not you use any cells I think are not 100%. I’ll probably stick to the factory cells. I can also make sure to run it a bit below max brightness.

Texas Ace Lumen Tube and JoshK Sphere calibrated with Maukka lights

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DBSAR
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HKJ wrote:
JasonWW wrote:
Cells are charged per 4.1.1 and heated in a circulating air oven at a rate of 5ºC per minute to 130ºC. At 130ºC, oven is to remain for 10 minutes before test is discontinued (Per UL1642). Specification: No explode, No fire

In this test venting is allowed, i.e. the cell is not usable after this.
The 60°C rating is not really maximum there is some safety included. This can be seen from some cells where the specifications allows up to maybe 80°C when using thermal cut-off.

it is likely the cell i used that gassed that odour was weak & an older cell in my case.

That Canadian flashlight guy & Lantern Guru -Den / DBSARlight

JasonWW
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DBSAR wrote:
HKJ wrote:
JasonWW wrote:
Cells are charged per 4.1.1 and heated in a circulating air oven at a rate of 5ºC per minute to 130ºC. At 130ºC, oven is to remain for 10 minutes before test is discontinued (Per UL1642). Specification: No explode, No fire

In this test venting is allowed, i.e. the cell is not usable after this.
The 60°C rating is not really maximum there is some safety included. This can be seen from some cells where the specifications allows up to maybe 80°C when using thermal cut-off.

it is likely the cell i used that gassed that odour was weak & an older cell in my case.


I think that is the general consensus. No can really get their battery temps up real high.

Texas Ace Lumen Tube and JoshK Sphere calibrated with Maukka lights

Click this to go to signature links. I'm still around, just not reading many new threads.

tatasal
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JasonWW wrote:
HKJ wrote:
JasonWW wrote:
I’ve looked at a lot of the protection circuit details on many batteries in the last couple years and it seems like most do mention over temperature protection. Obviously that’s not a standard feature across all protection circuits. I thought it was. Well, that’s a bummer.

They may mean the PTC protection, not the chip.


What is PTC protection?

Pressure/Temperature/Current switch:

https://batterybro.com/blogs/18650-wholesale-battery-reviews/18306003-ba...

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JasonWW wrote:
DBSAR wrote:
HKJ wrote:
JasonWW wrote:
Cells are charged per 4.1.1 and heated in a circulating air oven at a rate of 5ºC per minute to 130ºC. At 130ºC, oven is to remain for 10 minutes before test is discontinued (Per UL1642). Specification: No explode, No fire

In this test venting is allowed, i.e. the cell is not usable after this.
The 60°C rating is not really maximum there is some safety included. This can be seen from some cells where the specifications allows up to maybe 80°C when using thermal cut-off.

it is likely the cell i used that gassed that odour was weak & an older cell in my case.


I think that is the general consensus. No can really get their battery temps up real high.

I agree ~~~~ Wink

Im not a Pessimist …. just an Optimist with a lot of experience


A little John Prine

kuoh
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What accusations was I making? I was considering owning one and was simply learning more about it, hence the question.

KuoH

JasonWW wrote:
If you don’t own one then why are you making all kinds of accusations about it being dangerous? I think you’re letting your imagination run wild.
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kuoh wrote:
What accusations was I making? I was considering owning one and was simply learning more about it, hence the question.

KuoH


I see what happened. You responded to a quote I made to Aleister, so I thought I was talking to him. Sorry about getting you mixed up with him. I’ll delete my earlier post. Sorry.

Texas Ace Lumen Tube and JoshK Sphere calibrated with Maukka lights

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JasonWW wrote:
kuoh wrote:
What accusations was I making? I was considering owning one and was simply learning more about it, hence the question.

KuoH


I see what happened. You responded to a quote I made to Aleister, so I thought I was talking to him. Sorry about getting you mixed up with him. I’ll delete my earlier post. Sorry.

I hope you don’t consider my thoughts as accusations, they are my thoughts.

I own three T1s and loved them on my 12 days camping trip, as a matter of fact here is my opinion for T1: http://budgetlightforum.com/comment/1371926#comment-1371926

Let a flooder be my wife and a thrower be my mistress

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Ok.. I managed to get this T1 apart, (the lens/globe is both clipped AND silicone in place! (nearly impossible to get apart to mod without damaging the weak plastic case) so after i got it apart, my plan was to install a lock-out switch to both torn it off & lock it out when packing in a back pack) which the T1 has the worst shut-off method of any lantern i ever tested, (have to hold the bottom button in for a couple seconds or cycle through the SOS & steady-on red modes) and the fact that it does not have any lock out, and turns on when ever its top touched something metal on a backpack) i found the battery positive + soldered connection on the top PCB. I managed to solder a small lead on that connection to connect in a switch. Once i installed the switch, now the lantern no longer has any dimming or ramping. (it only turns on high or off.) meaning either the driver electronics are way to sensitive to try adding in a on/off switch or try to mod. when i got it back together, now it only turns on & off in the cool-white mode when touching the top touch-button. ( no brightness ramping, and no working warm white mode. I tried removing the switch lead and setting it back to its normal factory state, there is still no modes or ramping or warm white. Seems like the driver screwed up completely. – My opinion on this T1 is that its a good attempt at a compact lantern, but they failed miserably with the over-sensitive touch control, (turns on in a backpack) lack of physical lock out, parasitic drain, lack of modability, & heating of the battery tube by using it as a heat sink.
I have retired this to the bottom of the kitchen trash can. This is the first time i really got frustrated in a lantern this bad to the point i tossed it in the trash. of all the lanterns i modded, built, flashlights i also modded & built, this T1 is the worst wast of money i ever bought. When i go camping & on our canoe expeditions, no one wants to have to remove the battery every time its packed in gear bags.

Image below, factory “pull ties” hold the LED strips to the battery tube.

photo of the T1 after the switch mod.

That Canadian flashlight guy & Lantern Guru -Den / DBSARlight

DBSAR
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Am i the only person who is having horrible luck with these T1 lanterns? or are they really just unreliable crap? So a second non-modded Zanflare T1 lantern i had bought & gave to a friend back in August, failed.
It still works no problem in all modes, but for some reason with in a month it drained its battery (the cell that it came with) down to 0.71 volts while it was off and sitting on a shelf. he brought it back to me today, and i tested the cell and its definitely dead & drained, and probably to low to safely recharge. I placed another charged cell in the lantern, and while the lantern still works fine on all its modes, the blue charge indicator LED stays on all the time, even with the lantern off and not charging. I checked the parasitic drain and found it was still draining the cell at 0.13 amps with the lantern off and not plugged in. So i’m guessing its charging circuit either shorted or failed in some way. Either way the lantern is only 2 months old, and ruined its battery and has a bad drain for some reason. Maybe i should file a claim for this one with Gearbest..

That Canadian flashlight guy & Lantern Guru -Den / DBSARlight

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Unno, must be you. Evil

I just gave mine a tap, not charged since… unno, probably since I first got it… and it lit up nice’n‘warm just fine.

I use it maybe 5-10min a pop, a coupla times per week just before going to sleep (main light off, “nightlight” just to keep from walking into walls).

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I think I was the first to post that this lanterns battery tube gets way too hot.  Some say it's fine but I personally don't  like it. I like the lantern itself and have it plugged into my pc  usb port where I use it everyday when night falls.  Gives a great warm glow to my computer room.  I never use it with a battery and am fine with that.

DBSAR
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klrman wrote:

I think I was the first to post that this lanterns battery tube gets way too hot.  Some say it’s fine but I personally don’t  like it. I like the lantern itself and have it plugged into my pc  usb port where I use it everyday when night falls.  Gives a great warm glow to my computer room.  I never use it with a battery and am fine with that.

I agree on that it heats the battery, as i had a bad experience with an overheated laptop pull that began to vent the sweet smell of doom, (but then i tried to mod the lantern & then it died, then the second one i bought that i gave to a friend (who is a fellow expeditioner on our wilderness trips) that one drained its cell to a dangerous low level with some kind of short in the charging circuit. after all this i have flagged these T1 lanterns as problematic, unreliable, and a little dangerous.

That Canadian flashlight guy & Lantern Guru -Den / DBSARlight

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DBSAR wrote:
klrman wrote:

I think I was the first to post that this lanterns battery tube gets way too hot.  Some say it's fine but I personally don't  like it. I like the lantern itself and have it plugged into my pc  usb port where I use it everyday when night falls.  Gives a great warm glow to my computer room.  I never use it with a battery and am fine with that.

I agree on that it heats the battery, as i had a bad experience with an overheated laptop pull that began to vent the sweet smell of doom, (but then i tried to mod the lantern & then it died, then the second one i bought that i gave to a friend (who is a fellow expeditioner on our wilderness trips) that one drained its cell to a dangerous low level with some kind of short in the charging circuit. after all this i have flagged these Z1 lanterns as problematic, unreliable, and a little dangerous.

 

Even worse than I thought, thanks for doing all the legwork and posting the info!

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klrman wrote:

DBSAR wrote:
klrman wrote:

I think I was the first to post that this lanterns battery tube gets way too hot.  Some say it’s fine but I personally don’t  like it. I like the lantern itself and have it plugged into my pc  usb port where I use it everyday when night falls.  Gives a great warm glow to my computer room.  I never use it with a battery and am fine with that.


I agree on that it heats the battery, as i had a bad experience with an overheated laptop pull that began to vent the sweet smell of doom, (but then i tried to mod the lantern & then it died, then the second one i bought that i gave to a friend (who is a fellow expeditioner on our wilderness trips) that one drained its cell to a dangerous low level with some kind of short in the charging circuit. after all this i have flagged these T1 lanterns as problematic, unreliable, and a little dangerous.

 


Even worse than I thought, thanks for doing all the legwork and posting the info!

That’s why i took on the BLF lantern project, is to design & have built a lantern that is refined with all the features needed for a good lantern, that is lacking in the current market for such a product.
With as much time as i spend camping, on canoe expeditions, traveling in a RV living off the grid, even in power outages, i have had the opportunity to use & test most every consumer lanterns available, mod many of them to be better, and have found flaws that could be improved in all of them to be the ideal perfect lantern for what a lantern can be. This T1 have failed me on modification attempts to improve it, and with its lack of lockout, over sensitive touch control, heat issues, and now reliability concerns, its one i have lost trust in.

That Canadian flashlight guy & Lantern Guru -Den / DBSARlight

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I'm looking forward to when your BLF lantern is for sale.  I'm on the list for at least one and possibly more.  It's going to be a real winner.

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Even if worried about a heating issue with this unit, seems like a bit of common sense could take care of the issue.

One, use the dimming function to run the unit a bit below the max output.

Two, use the magnetic base to attach something like a small steel washer to act as a supplementary heatsink.

I’ve personally used my T1 quite a bit, and never noticed an issue in practice. Then again, I tend to prefer the quality of light when it’s running relatively dimly.

I agree that a lockout switch would be a welcome addition to this design.

I also think it seems a bit odd that a separate switch under the base is used to turn the light off – it would seem to make more sense to use a long-press on the top sensor to turn the light off. I have a little Drok-branded dimmable rechargeable puck light that works exactly like this, and I love how easy it is to control. The little Drok is not as rugged as the T1, and doesn’t have a swappable battery, so I don’t take it on travel, but it serves very well as a nighttime bathroom light.

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+1 keihin, I think common sense solves most of the T1’s ‘reported’ problems. Welcome to BLF Beer

Im not a Pessimist …. just an Optimist with a lot of experience


A little John Prine

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Of my three, one is constant on with no dimming and the bottom switch turns on the reds butt are overpowered by the constant high white leds and does not turn off the whites. The second does not respond to touch at all and only the red leds turn on by the switch. The third works as designed, too bad the quality control is so bad. Tired

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keihin wrote:
Even if worried about a heating issue with this unit, seems like a bit of common sense could take care of the issue.

One, use the dimming function to run the unit a bit below the max output.

Two, use the magnetic base to attach something like a small steel washer to act as a supplementary heatsink.

I’ve personally used my T1 quite a bit, and never noticed an issue in practice. Then again, I tend to prefer the quality of light when it’s running relatively dimly.

I agree that a lockout switch would be a welcome addition to this design.

I also think it seems a bit odd that a separate switch under the base is used to turn the light off – it would seem to make more sense to use a long-press on the top sensor to turn the light off. I have a little Drok-branded dimmable rechargeable puck light that works exactly like this, and I love how easy it is to control. The little Drok is not as rugged as the T1, and doesn’t have a swappable battery, so I don’t take it on travel, but it serves very well as a nighttime bathroom light.

Coscar wrote:
+1 keihin, I think common sense solves most of the T1’s ‘reported’ problems. Welcome to BLF Beer
+2 ….. I’m pleased with mine. While it is not something I would take on an Everest Expedition, it works just fine (for me) if I use it within it’s limitations.
Welcome keihin!! Smile

You never know how a horse will pull until you hook him up to a heavy load./"Bear" Bryant 

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Coscar
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chinooker wrote:
Of my three, one is constant on with no dimming and the bottom switch turns on the reds butt are overpowered by the constant high white leds and does not turn off the whites. The second does not respond to touch at all and only the red leds turn on by the switch. The third works as designed, too bad the quality control is so bad. Tired

I havent read of many reports of defective units but only 1 good out of 3 is not good…… I definitely would have asked for a replacement/refund Ughh

Im not a Pessimist …. just an Optimist with a lot of experience


A little John Prine

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I put the ‘constant-on one’ in a ziplock with battery extant, pending emergency. The red-only one goes in my spare tire compartment. I am at a stage of life that the conflict with Chinese customer service is anathema to my well-being.

I really hope you don’t require me to prove myself by filming the defective units sent to me as they do. I don’t consider it worthy of a company I want to do any further business with.

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chinooker wrote:
I am at a stage of life that the conflict with Chinese customer service is anathema to my well-being. I don’t consider it worthy of a company I want to do any further business with.

LOL…..Believe me, I completely understand…… I never understood the ‘take a picture’ response, but it wouldnt hurt to shoot them an email(sometimes they just credit your PP account) or PM freeme to see if he could help.

Im not a Pessimist …. just an Optimist with a lot of experience


A little John Prine

Gebe
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I had forgotten all about the problems with these as I ordered one today through BG’s fire sale of $14.99, ($18 something with shipping).

I’ll see how it turns out when I receive it in a couple of months. Wink

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Well, I bit again on the $14.99 sale (Out of Stock now) After having 2 out of 3 faulty, I wasn’t optimistic, however this one is perfect!

In fact you can now turn it off from the top touch switch and it is more responsive to touch. I like it.

Gebe
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Just received mine today. Wow, only 12 days! Thumbs Up Mine’s working perfectly. Top button changes modes at a slight touch. Nice! Bottom button for the red light works perfectly also.

I haven’t tried leaving it on high for a long time to see if it heats up but I’ll try that tonight. All in all, I really like it! Big Smile

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chinooker wrote:
Of my three, one is constant on with no dimming and the bottom switch turns on the reds butt are overpowered by the constant high white leds and does not turn off the whites. The second does not respond to touch at all and only the red leds turn on by the switch. The third works as designed, too bad the quality control is so bad. Tired

One of the two units I got had the same “stuck on” problem you described. The cool white LEDs are just always on at max brightness, but everything else seems to work. Feels like a soldering connection issue.
Emailed Gearbest, sure enough they asked for every piece of information imaginable, including a video. Sent them all that and got a refund (already have a couple more on their way; I think this is a fairly rare issue).
I’d like to take this defective one apart to look at it, but that seems like a difficult task!

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I received another at the new low price and it works fine….so far. Smile

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roamingchicken wrote:
chinooker wrote:
Of my three, one is constant on with no dimming and the bottom switch turns on the reds butt are overpowered by the constant high white leds and does not turn off the whites. The second does not respond to touch at all and only the red leds turn on by the switch. The third works as designed, too bad the quality control is so bad. Tired

One of the two units I got had the same “stuck on” problem you described. The cool white LEDs are just always on at max brightness, but everything else seems to work. Feels like a soldering connection issue.
Emailed Gearbest, sure enough they asked for every piece of information imaginable, including a video. Sent them all that and got a refund (already have a couple more on their way; I think this is a fairly rare issue).
I’d like to take this defective one apart to look at it, but that seems like a difficult task!

I still have one of the three that still works, but i added a resistor to limit its maximum mode to lower the center post temperatures, and added an on/off switch on the side to lock it out as it can turn on to easily by accident.

That Canadian flashlight guy & Lantern Guru -Den / DBSARlight

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