[Review] Olight S1R Baton II

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EDCba
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jon_slider wrote:
EDCba wrote:
I don’t think the cable determines the charging rate

The S1R charger is not just a cable, there is a blue charging disc on the end, that has different electronics inside. Version 2 cable charges at a higher rate, and the Version 2 IMR battery has double the maximum Discharge Rate as well. Version 1 Battery says 5C, Version 2 battery says 10C on the label:
you will find these details mentioned in the first post:

rookiedaddy wrote:
this new MCC II charger provides much faster charging compare to the older MCC as it charges in higher current.

see the plastic disc surrounding the button top on the ORB-16C05-10C (on the right)

Oh you’re right, I forgot about the proprietary battery having both contacts at one end. I was thinking about the Rofis magnetic chargers.

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Frigide wrote:
Is there a way to lose/destroy the magnet so i can hang the light to nu keychain without the light sticking to nu keys.

I believe you could try using a strong demagnetizer/degausser to remove the magnetism from the tailend. Do not use heat, because the heat may damage components at the tailend.

jon_slider wrote:
...
Maximum Discharge Current is not the same as OverDischarge Protection. So, now that Im totally confused about the use of the term Protected, I think I will simply avoid the S1R v1 and V2, so I dont have to deal with a unique, proprietary battery, that may or may not be protected, and may or may not be IMR, and may or may not be chargeable outside the light, which may or may not have built in OverDischarge Protection..

LOL! jon, I like the way you put it... bwahahaha...  Big Smile
The older model ORB-163C05 IMR battery does have protection, but they removes it from the new ORB-16C05-10C IMR battery due to the 10C discharge requirement.

MascaratumB wrote:
I was just wondering...this battery won't even charge on the Olight UC Magnetic charger, will it?  :|

Don't charge S1R batteries, ORB-163C05, ORB-16C05-10C using the Olight UC Magnetic charger, it may create a short. In fact, don't use Olight UC Magnetic charger on any of Olight's proprietary "dual-polarity" batteries.

sbslider wrote:
I believe I would still be carrying my ugly beam S1R to this day if it was not for one (for me) fatal flaw.  The battery, make that the proprietary battery, that makes it possible to charge inside the light with the MCC, does not do well with high loads at COOL, not even cold, temperatures.  I experienced this a few times on evening walks with my wife, "as noted in this thread":http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?443822-Olight-cell-te... The final straw was on a camping trip this past May, when I had the light off in my pocket at night and tried to see something away from the campfire using the 600 lumen mode and it stepped down to medium or low after a few seconds.  
I am wondering if you could do a cool temperature test with the new battery to see if it is at all improved.  The Olight (and most 16340) cells do better at full charge, but at less than full the sag is bigger, and the voltage change required to cause the S1R to step down to lower levels is smaller.

I did a quick test, but I'm in the opinion that my test is inconclusive due to my method of simulating the cold environment. I put the fully charged S1R in the freezer compartment of my fridge for 10 minutes. Before starting the test, measured temp at 10°C, switch-on the S1R Baton II, Medium mode, double click to bring it to Turbo mode, Turbo can sustain for more than a minute.
I then close the freezer door with S1R Baton II inside, left it for another 11 minutes, ran the same test again, same results. I can still run Turbo normally.
It's a known issue with LiIon/Alkaline battery that in colder temperature, the battery will have higher IR until it's "warmed-up", and a common solution (that I learnt from frequent hiker) is to use our body heat to keep the light/battery warm enough to power up the device. As such, my S1R Baton II ability to run Turbo at "relatively" cold temperature does not discount your experience nor claim that Olight's newer light/battery is better at running in colder temperature. I still think testing in real environment is essential to confirm, but since I lives in an equatorial country where it's hot and humid throughout the year, I'll have to leave such test to other reviewers.

jmm244 wrote:
...It seemed my S1R "Turbo" Baton was always stepping down to ~300 lumens before I thought it should, while my S1, S Mini and S1 Mini Batons seem to be able to hold their 550-600 lumen high setting for a more usable length of time, so I still have and use them.
Although I still have several other tailcap charging Olights, that feature has lost a lot of its initial appeal. I'd rather have spare batteries ready to go when a light needs them, rather than having the light tied to a charger that won't let me select current or tell me where the battery is in the charge cycle.
...

if cold temperature is not a factor, then the battery is due for a refresh. I had the same thing happened to me even when I'm sure the battery is fully charged. I refresh the ORB-163C05 by discharging it until protection kicks-in, and then I use XTAR SV2 with 0.25A charge rate to charge it back up, then I repeat the discharge-charge cycle again. And the battery is back to normal performance.
another possibility is the ORB-163C05 has aged and should be replace.

Enderman wrote:
Would be nice if olight could use a design that doesn't require proprietary batteries, like nitecore does on many of their rechargeable lights.
It would require having the charging circuit in the head.

wholeheartedly agreed. frankly, I'm still waiting for their first 18350 light.

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That kind of faff with battery power, sag and such is why I’m not a fan of the 16340 format. They’re small, adorable and easy to carry, but way too low capacity to really put out the power when you actually need it.

Now, question: if you don’t count the “wow lumens” factor, would it be better to get this or the previous S1R at a good sale discount?

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rookiedaddy wrote:
The older model ORB-163C05 IMR battery does have protection

In that case, I withdraw my objection to using the S1R v1 proprietary PROTECTED IMR in an unprotected Olight S Mini.

I based my objection on your previous statement to “treat ORB-163C05 as unprotected”.

I also found this, confirming the S1R v1 battery is a Protected IMR:
Olight ORB-163C05 IMR RCR123A / 16340 550mAh 3.7V Protected High-Drain 2.75A Lithium Ion (Li-ion) Button Top Battery

there is also a comment on the label “built in circuit board prevents OverDischarging”:

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rookiedaddy wrote:
I did a quick test, but I’m in the opinion that my test is inconclusive due to my method of simulating the cold environment. I put the fully charged S1R in the freezer compartment of my fridge for 10 minutes. Before starting the test, measured temp at 10°C, switch-on the S1R Baton II, Medium mode, double click to bring it to Turbo mode, Turbo can sustain for more than a minute.
I then close the freezer door with S1R Baton II inside, left it for another 11 minutes, ran the same test again, same results. I can still run Turbo normally.

Thanks for giving it a go. I had the problem when the battery is closer to half discharged. I suspect a fully charged battery put in the freezer for 10 minutes would work fine, I may try that tonight.

The S1R was the first light I tried that stuck in my pocket for months and got used all the time. So many things I liked, including the MCC, the UI, the size, the moonlight mode, the mode spacing, being able to measure the battery voltage with out taking the battery out, the size. Then after the cold battery issue started to bug me, I found the Emisar D4. That with the 18350 tube is my EDC now. Better UI, better tint, more fun modes that are useful to me.

But I may check out the new S1RII anyway, we will see how I feel when the sale comes along on Friday.

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Yeah 18350 would be nice, can get like 15-25% more Wh/kg and Wh/cm^3

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Enderman wrote:
Would be nice if olight could use a design that doesn’t require proprietary batteries, like nitecore does on many of their rechargeable lights. It would require having the charging circuit in the head. Maybe they could make it USB-C compatible too, even better.

Agreed.

Actually, a more accurate comparison would be Armytek. They have managed to implement a magnetic charging system similar to Olight, but it doesn’t require proprietary batteries. Oh, and there’s been no reports of it being a fire hazard, unlike some of Olight’s models. Klarus also has a magnetic charging system on some of their XT lights, although theirs is on the side of the light, not the tailcap.

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jon_slider wrote:
I based my objection on your previous statement to “treat ORB-163C05 as unprotected”.

LOL! To clarify, I treat all LiIon (IMR, INR, ICR, IFR, etc.) batteries the same, regardless of whether they are protected or not, that is, I handle them all as UNprotected LiIon battery, and that is, with respect. I learned a great deal from many CPF and BLF members’ experience and other battery experts (including batteryuniversity.com and the book [Batteries In A Portable World]) that the best protection is between our ears. I do not rely on battery protection circuit in my day-to-day charging and discharging activities to provide protection for the LiIon battery, and to certain extend, this carries on to NiMH chemistry too.
I have in many occasions shared that the protection circuit in battery is to protect the battery, not us — the users. As a father of two, I’ve also put in certain unwritten rules about battery handling in my household and trained my kids (and wifey, she needs reminder once in a while) to treat all batteries with respect, especially LiIon battery-powered devices. Love

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rookiedady wrote:
MascaratumB wrote:
I was just wondering…this battery won’t even charge on the Olight UC Magnetic charger, will it? Flat Stare

Don’t charge S1R batteries, ORB-163C05, ORB-16C05-10C using the Olight UC Magnetic charger, it may create a short. In fact, don’t use Olight UC Magnetic charger on any of Olight’s proprietary “dual-polarity” batteries

Thanks for clarification mate Wink I will not forget this when I get that charger Wink

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rookiedaddy wrote:
the best protection is between our ears.

agreed
and thank you for laughing at my sense of humor, Im glad you “get” it when Im joking.

seriously now:
My main reason for wanting built in protection is because my CR123 lights have no built in protection, so I like Protected LiIon cells, in case I fall asleep with the light on. Or in case I lend a light to someone that has not been to Battery University, and They leave the light on til it dies.

Specific to the S1r v1, I gave mine to one of my adult kids. She has no other LiIon, and no other CR123 lighs. So the proprietary cell is not going to need an Intelligent Operator. I also like that you have taught me that the S1R v1 batter IS Protected. Thank you for taking the time to educate me on the finer details of Olight models.

Regarding the S1R v2.. I have completely lost interest in that model, due to the UNProtected battery… I would not want to have to manage its unique needs.. I prefer Protected 16340 batteries that work in all my lights.. Wink

with great respect and gratitude for your reviews and comments

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I can confirm with test data that the S1R1 battery, ORB-163C05, is protected. I ran it in my S1R at high until the light extinguished. It stepped down to medium, then low, then the light went out. I measured the lowest voltage while in low mode at 2.6V. I was at work and not monitoring it constantly. When the light went out, I measured the voltage at the battery terminals at 0V. My charger would not recognize it. I needed to take my D4 battery and shock the ORB-163C05 with a 10 ohm resistor to get it to come up from 0V. After the shock, it read 2.9V. Its charging now.

I did this in part to show it is protected, and in part to see if it would improve the cold temperature performance. I sort of doubt the latter, but who knows.

Sorry for the thread drift . . . Blushing

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sbslider wrote:
I can confirm with test data that the S1R1 battery, ORB-163C05, is protected. I ran it in my S1R at high until the light extinguished. It stepped down to medium, then low, then the light went out. I measured the lowest voltage while in low mode at 2.6V. I was at work and not monitoring it constantly. When the light went out, I measured the voltage at the battery terminals at 0V. My charger would not recognize it. I needed to take my D4 battery and shock the ORB-163C05 with a 10 ohm resistor to get it to come up from 0V. After the shock, it read 2.9V. Its charging now.

I did this in part to show it is protected, and in part to see if it would improve the cold temperature performance. I sort of doubt the latter, but who knows.

Sorry for the thread drift . . . Blushing

Hum, funny you mention this. Last night I was making something alike.
I had my S1R running with low battery. At about +/- 3.08V it stopped turning ON (after the High Mode and Turbo, and sometimes Medium mode, didn’t work below 3.3V).
As the battery was reading NULL on the Opus BT-C3100, at 3.08V I touched the bottom of the S1R with the magnetic charger. It worked for a while and then shut OFF. Then I repeated the same process 2 or 3 times, when it shut OFF.
Later I decided to put it on a Convoy S2+ triple (FET driver), just to check if it went below 2.8V. Last time I tried it it was at 2.7V, but still with juice to run the flashlight for some more time on the lowest mode.

I ended the test there and put the battery to charge into the flashlight. This morning I measured it and it was 4.21V freshly charged. Don’t know if this is important or not, but is is another “record” about the ORB-163C05 . :ARROW-RIGHT:

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sbslider wrote:
I can confirm with test data that the S1R1 battery, ORB-163C05, is protected. … When the light went out, I measured the voltage at the battery terminals at 0V. … After the shock, it read 2.9V. Its charging now.

Awesome!
Thank you Smile
Protected it is then.

I hope the cold weather performance improves. Im grateful for your contributions, including your personal carry report, and how useful your S1R v1 was to you, until things cooled down after the Honeymoon.

I hope you can rekindle the affair.. and get to use that second S1R v1 battery Wink

MascaratumB wrote:

I had my S1R running with low battery. At about +/- 3.08V it stopped turning ON

I touched the bottom of the S1R with the magnetic charger. It worked for a while and then shut OFF
….
on a Convoy S2+ triple …it was at 2.7V, but still with juice to run the flashlight for some more time on the lowest mode.

I ended the test there and put the battery to charge into the flashlight. This morning I measured it and it was 4.21V freshly charged. … ORB-163C05

I like this kind of detail, thanks for taking the time

sounds like your S1R has some sort of low voltage shutoff near 3.0v, and the battery did not read 0 volts, so its internal protection had not triggered, not even at 2.7v in the convoy on lowest mode (possibly set to trigger at 2.5v under load, probably would have triggered battery protection if you tried to use high mode)

and it sounds like your v1 charger was consistently turning the green charge indicator OFF while still charging, since it still worked to charge overnight correctly

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Yes, I think I will be using my S1R v1 again. I am interested in seeing what factors are contributing to the voltage drop at turbo mode(s). I just did a quick test after fully charging my battery, and the light dropped out of turbo mode after a few seconds at room temp, ~22C. So I cleaned the interfaces to the battery, and the tailcap a bit, and I see the light will stay in turbo mode easily now. The voltage drops about 0.8V in turbo from off, so the battery can’t be much below full charge to work correctly.

I actually have 2 new batteries at home, so I want to compare the performance of old vs new, and also clean up the interfaces as best I can to see how much things improve then.

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sbslider wrote:
I cleaned the interfaces to the battery, and the tailcap a bit, and I see the light will stay in turbo mode easily now

Yay!

I have also found that cleaning out excess oil from the threads, tailcap, head and driver, on my lights makes them more reliable. My Maratac AAA will skip modes if I let too much lube build up.

I also found my Novatac tailswitch became more reliable when I cleaned out all the thread lube and started over.

I think I wanted to give them too much Love. I still use the lube, but I wipe it off the end of the body tube, and I wipe out the inside threads and contacts.. things are still lubricated, just not too much.

I use this stuff, it was recommended by darksucks, when I got a copper Beta

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thanks for the recommendation.

I did a bit of cleaning, and now the original battery drops 0.45V at first turbo (600 lumens) and 0.7V at full turbo with a fully charged battery 5 seconds after going to turbo.

Also measured with a new (different?) battery that has been sitting in the refrigerator (not the one for sale) and measured it as the first. Basically I saw about 0.1V lower on both turbo modes compared to the first test. Now I am questioning if I already swapped batteries and had the newer one in the light. Guess it does not really matter, IIWII. Now I know which is a better performer at high output. My charger suggested that with the ESR readings it provided.

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I notice that Olight UK also has the 25% off offer today £41.24 so will be fighting temptation all day Smile

Bonum commune communitatis.

Yarp.

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Same here in the US, 25% off one, or 30% of 2 or more.

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Received my Olight S1R BATON II today and surprise, the battery is marked:

ORB-163C05-10C
FIT FOR S1R BATON II
HIGH PERFORMANCE IMR BATTERY WITH
OVER-CHARGE, OVER-HEAT PROTECTION,
AND EXPLOSION PROTECTION

The new wording on this battery does not specifically mention a circuit board or use the word “overdischarge” and is certainly curious. The outer shell is essentially the same length as the older protected ORB-163C05 and ORB-163C06 batteries, and it has the same “bulge” on the “positive” end to accommodate a protection PCB as those batteries have.

I haven’t tested its behavior yet, but one thing to be aware of in doing so is that not all protected batteries have to trip and latch/stay at zero volts when their protection circuit is actuated (sometimes requiring bootstrapping or charging in a “special” charger to reset the protection PCB). The tripping behavior is merely a choice made by the circuit designer. There’s no reason a tripped battery can’t provide its seriously depleted voltage to its terminals for reading by a relatively high input resistance DMM, yet not supply any significant output to a real load if called on to do so if that’s the way it was designed. Some protected batteries can be reset/restored if merely presented with a voltage higher than a specific threshold (doable in just about any CC/CV charger), while others may require a special reset routine that may or may not involve genuflecting and making symbolic gestures and/or the uttering of oaths.

It also appears that the proprietary plastic ring on the “positive” end of the ORB-16C05-10C that prevents it from being charged in many (but probably not all) stand alone chargers can be easily be defeated by popping a 6 mm/1/4 inch neodymium magnet onto the center terminal (AS LONG AS ONE IS CAREFUL INSERTING IT INTO/REMOVING IT FROM THE CHARGER).

I’m probably not going to unwrap one of these new batteries to find out what’s really inside until one gets old and weak.

So the confusion about Olight RCR123A battery protection continues…

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my local distributor just received their stock of ORB-16C05-10C, bought 2 as spares. I was waiting to get my hands on these spares as backup to start verifying runtime on the lowest mode of 0.5 lumen. I'm basically in the opinion that doing this test has detrimental effects to the battery...

will report back in a week or two of the test results... stay tuned... Wink

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Well, the result is in.
Having to report this now after just a week... well, you guessed it, it's ~8 days 11 hours.
Starting Voltage: 4.20V
Ending Voltage: 2.48V

Oh, one more thing, the battery level indicator at the switch button light up in RED when light cuts off.

 

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rookiedaddy wrote:

Well, the result is in.
Having to report this now after just a week… well, you guessed it, it’s ~8 days 11 hours.
Starting Voltage: 4.20V
Ending Voltage: 2.48V


Oh, one more thing, the battery level indicator at the switch button light up in RED when light cuts off.


 


Thank you rookiedaddy!! That is quite impressive, but the 15 days mentioned on specs are another half way almost… So, I guess the 15 days are just an estimation, right? Am I reading this data correctly?

EDIT: Sorry, I saw a the data of the S1R Baton “I” that would last 15 days on the mode 5 = 0.5 Lumens!
I apologize for the confusion Facepalm

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I woke up this morning to a new set of S1R Baton II line-up... sharing a few pictures from Olight...

 

yeah, the Winter edition is warm white... now that's fitting...

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They’ve got a teaser page on their website(s) now:

https://www.olightstore.com/led-flashlights/olight-s1r-ii-ti

I wonder if they’ll have a flash sale on the Winter?

It would take a heck of a sale, and winning the lottery for me to spring for a “kit”:

https://www.olightstore.com/led-flashlights/olight-s1r-ii-ti-kit

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rookiedaddy wrote:

I woke up this morning to a new set of S1R Baton II line-up… sharing a few pictures from Olight…



 




yeah, the Winter edition is warm white… now that’s fitting…


Are these gonna be rechargeable too? None of the pictures show the tail.

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EDCba wrote:
Are these gonna be rechargeable too? None of the pictures show the tail.

They are Wink In OlightWorld video (youtube) it can be seen the charging “button” in the bottom of the winter version (at least)!!

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Just bought my Warm Winter…

Pairing it with AloxSilverVic…

now that’s A Match Made on Earth…

Comparing to the surface of sand-blasted S Mini

and the tint…

is as beautiful as this yellow rose…

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I was surprised by Olight today… wow!

Love

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Darn you rookiedaddy, I thought I was done with my Christmas shopping.
That is if they offer this one. Sweet light!

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