I’m such a CRI baby that 92.5 looks low to me. Come to think of it, most of the lights I use regularly actually are higher than that, but I think it’s the Duv that threw me on #2.
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Ceilingbounce – flashlight testing and runtime graphs for Android | Zak Reviews – my flashlight reviews, with lots of runtime graphs
Didn’t expect #2 to be 219c because 219c normally is very positive DUV (above BBL) and greenish. The Optisolis does look like the best daylight simulator.
Somehow I dont think this will change your mind about above BBL tints. I think most people did not mind the positive DUV in these pictures (which actually show something and not just a white wall) yet it is horrific to even consider such a thing on paper. (both literally and figuratively)
Clemence I really thought this was a cool test. I had guessed #1 but I believe there is false information added to it by the white balance adjustment. I opened it up in Photoshop and increased the color temp and all of the reasons I thought it was high CRI went away. It is dull and lifeless at a cooler temp. This doesnt happen to me when I use say the 6500k E21A R9080. Granted I don’t have the RAW to set a fixed WB and I do not have the crayons to do my own test.
Location: Formerly of Western Iowa, now Kansas City, USofA
I chose #4, but it was as much for the clarity of the image as it was the colors. Numbers 3 & 4 both did a good job of bringing out all the tints, but #4 was just that tad bit sharper with more clarity, especially the jar rim.
—
You don't really need a parachute to skydive. But you DO need one if you want to skydive twice!
Somehow I dont think this will change your mind about above BBL tints. I think most people did not mind the positive DUV in these pictures (which actually show something and not just a white wall) yet it is horrific to even consider such a thing on paper. (both literally and figuratively)
I’ve compared many many many lights of the same color temperature but different tints and I am certain below the bbl tint looks faaaarrrr better than above the bbl tint. Somehow above the bbl makes things look very tinted. The yellow/green is very obvious especially for warmer CCT. Below the bbl, the tint looks more neutral and even far below the bbl such as 219B 9080 still looks more pleasing and neutral than above the bbl tint.
You need to keep in mind that looking at pictures on a screen and comparing beams with your own eyes are completely different. You might see a 4000k beamshot that makes everything very yellow on the screen but in real life especially at night when your eyes are adjusted to warm white fixtures, that 4000k actually looks pure white or even with a bit of cold blue. Your eyes also adjust to tint as well as CCT. You really need to compare the beamshots in person on real objects such as a very messy desk (like mine), dirt and faunda, hardwood floor etc. and not just against a plain wall to see the difference. After comparing literally over a hundred flashlights, I now know exactly what tint, CCT, and CRI (R9) is good for what applications.
I didn’t end up voting, because I could not decide. The crayons were pretty saturated colors, which combined with the limited color space of most monitors and the sRGB standard, meant even for the worst light it was hard to tell between the red channel being maxed out, or just close.
On the other hand, when you get really bad CRI, and especially combined with a very cool color temperature, you get this:
Somehow I dont think this will change your mind about above BBL tints. I think most people did not mind the positive DUV in these pictures (which actually show something and not just a white wall) yet it is horrific to even consider such a thing on paper. (both literally and figuratively)
I have never, in all my time enjoying the outdoors, found myself lamenting the ugly green tint of real daylight.
However, when comparing lights of various of various CRI’s and Duv’s under similar situations, I do find a preference to stay at or very slightly below the BBL.
Didn’t expect #2 to be 219c because 219c normally is very positive DUV (above BBL) and greenish.
You always say this…
I start to wonder where you got your 219C from.
Must admit, the 3000K and 2700K i got from Clemence i find way too green too.
But not the 3500K and above.
Although my first impression of the 4000K in a C8 with OP reflector was very disappointing.
Definitely positive DUV in the corona. Not nice.
But i love them in a TIR optic.
I’ve only ever had two 219C lights ,but both were green. 1 was a Manker E14 straight from Manker (5000k R9050), the other was a D4S from Intl Outdoor (5000k R9050).
I’ve only ever had two 219C lights ,but both were green. 1 was a Manker E14 straight from Manker (5000k R9050), the other was a D4S from Intl Outdoor (5000k R9050).
Hmmm…
I think i bought the quad board with optic from Intl Outdoor…
Not tested yet, but i like the ones from the horrible Astrolux S42.
Will test the IO ones soon then…
Hope it’s the same tint as the S42 ones.
I have 1 4000K triple from KD, which are just a lot warmer (more yellow) than my other 4000K’s.
I bought a bunch from a BLF member WWEFANS and a buch from Clemence, which seem to be the same tint.
Yes, i suppose they are positive DUV, but never bothered me and never greener than any Cree i have.
Some find the LH351D 4000K 90CRI green too.
The ones i got from led4power don’t seem green to me.
Maybe it’s me.
Here’s a comparison I did recently which includes some of my 4000K emitters. I screwed up the label for the 219C. It shouldn’t say V2 5D it should just be 219C D240 4000K 90CRI. No idea what the DUV is on any of these but I have a hard time seeing much green in any of them even though i’m sure some are above the BBL.
No such thing as a 219C v2 5D. You probably wanted to write XP-L HI v2 5D? Cree 5D tint is one of the best ever. It is very similar to Nichia 219B 9080 and E21A. If you compare Cree 5D with a 219C, you will realize how green 219C is unless you get the sm4070E bin from Clemence.
I just received my Fireflies E07 SST-20 95CRI 4000k FA3 tint bin. Turned it on and thought the tint looked really good on turbo (low mode is very green). Then I turned on my D4S with 5D tint and all of a sudden the SST-20 appeared green when compared side by side.
contactcr wrote:
Here’s a comparison I did recently which includes some of my 4000K emitters. I screwed up the label for the 219C. It shouldn’t say V2 5D it should just be 219C D240 4000K 90CRI. No idea what the DUV is on any of these but I have a hard time seeing much green in any of them even though i’m sure some are above the BBL.
FWIW: Who can resist the temptation of absolutes and universal vision?
Our bodies are all somewhat different, doesn’t that include our eyes and eyesight?
Retinas have different ratios of cones, rods, deterioration and sensitivities. Corneas yellow with age.
Blue light scatters more in the vitreous.
Floaters block images, forcing the brain to fill in the voids.
Daylight isn’t always perfect lighting for everybody, emitters can appear much different throughout the day.
Outdoor gardening after sunset is much easier for me using a greenish emitter.
During the day copper, tinted sunglasses give me the best color contrast, similar to the traditional below the ANSIBBL Nichias.
Beautiful tint is in the eyes of the beholder.
High Cri for interior design and selling consumer goods can be significant for us flashaholics, but hardly a panacea.
Looking at the numbers on Optisolis, seems like the higher CCT you go, the slightly better the numbers. I’m almost tempted to get a 6500k one just for the novelty of it. Maybe one 6500k and one 5000k.
Weren’t the E21A and 20 degree Optisolis scheduled to go live a couple days ago?
Looking at the numbers on Optisolis, seems like the higher CCT you go, the slightly better the numbers. I’m almost tempted to get a 6500k one just for the novelty of it. Maybe one 6500k and one 5000k.
Weren’t the E21A and 20 degree Optisolis scheduled to go live a couple days ago?
Yup, if only the custom didn’t returned my lens back to the sender. They RE-ship back the packet two days ago. That must one hell of dizzy trips for the lens
EDIT: wrong answer…Some suggests me to wait until they’re all ready because some people want to get both Jetusolis and Jetue21a. And not all people watch this forum.
Waiting for beam perfection is a wait worth it. Is the bezel hard to screw off in case I did want to put like a 1/8th minus green on?
Yes, not all Jet-U I got free from glue….
Some are very hard to open. Luckily it’s not real threadlocker, judging from the residue it’s more like an UHU glue. Meant to ease the installation. Don’t worry, I’ll open it up for you.
Looking at the numbers on Optisolis, seems like the higher CCT you go, the slightly better the numbers. I’m almost tempted to get a 6500k one just for the novelty of it. Maybe one 6500k and one 5000k.
Weren’t the E21A and 20 degree Optisolis scheduled to go live a couple days ago?
As I see it, the higher the CCT, the closer the theoretical black body peak gets to the LED. You don’t need the phosphor to produce as much red, and you don’t need to trade off as much blue to get your other colors.
Up to about 4000K, the black body peak happens beyond the human visual range, but the phosphor peaks happen within the visual range, so their output is declining as wavelength increases in a range where the theoretical target needs increasing output as wavelength increases.
Your eyes are so insensitive to this wavelength that the height of that peak has relatively little influence on tint and CRI. And correct if I’m talking nonsense but keeping that peak a little higher may provide some compensation for the cyan dip. In any case, if it is better to lower that peak the best way is adding more phosfor so that it is converted to greens and reds instead of wasted inside a filter.
Djozz, theoretically, I agree with your every word. What I mean is that since the amount of phosfor is a given, i wonder if there is any measureable difference in tint/cri? I have these lee filters and a 3× 5000k optisolis mule, so I’ll try to see if there is any visible difference, but I also interested in measurements
What I observed was that there was an obvious difference between a 5k optisolis and 5k e21a in the blue/green range.
As I said, the right correct the wrong
Total failure on my CRI assessment
It was fun, though
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I’m such a CRI baby that 92.5 looks low to me. Come to think of it, most of the lights I use regularly actually are higher than that, but I think it’s the Duv that threw me on #2.
Ceilingbounce – flashlight testing and runtime graphs for Android | Zak Reviews – my flashlight reviews, with lots of runtime graphs
Didn’t expect #2 to be 219c because 219c normally is very positive DUV (above BBL) and greenish. The Optisolis does look like the best daylight simulator.
Somehow I dont think this will change your mind about above BBL tints. I think most people did not mind the positive DUV in these pictures (which actually show something and not just a white wall) yet it is horrific to even consider such a thing on paper. (both literally and figuratively)
Clemence I really thought this was a cool test. I had guessed #1 but I believe there is false information added to it by the white balance adjustment. I opened it up in Photoshop and increased the color temp and all of the reasons I thought it was high CRI went away. It is dull and lifeless at a cooler temp. This doesnt happen to me when I use say the 6500k E21A R9080. Granted I don’t have the RAW to set a fixed WB and I do not have the crayons to do my own test.
RAW files: http://budgetlightforum.com/comment/1442234#comment-1442234
- Clemence
www.virence.com
Physical and thermal properties of solder alloy - Shooting Beamshots With HDR - Nichia E21A Tint Shots
Its Okay To Be Smart - SmarterEveryDay - Deep Look - Veritasium - Tech Ingredients
I chose #4, but it was as much for the clarity of the image as it was the colors. Numbers 3 & 4 both did a good job of bringing out all the tints, but #4 was just that tad bit sharper with more clarity, especially the jar rim.
You don't really need a parachute to skydive. But you DO need one if you want to skydive twice!
I’ve compared many many many lights of the same color temperature but different tints and I am certain below the bbl tint looks faaaarrrr better than above the bbl tint. Somehow above the bbl makes things look very tinted. The yellow/green is very obvious especially for warmer CCT. Below the bbl, the tint looks more neutral and even far below the bbl such as 219B 9080 still looks more pleasing and neutral than above the bbl tint.
You need to keep in mind that looking at pictures on a screen and comparing beams with your own eyes are completely different. You might see a 4000k beamshot that makes everything very yellow on the screen but in real life especially at night when your eyes are adjusted to warm white fixtures, that 4000k actually looks pure white or even with a bit of cold blue. Your eyes also adjust to tint as well as CCT. You really need to compare the beamshots in person on real objects such as a very messy desk (like mine), dirt and faunda, hardwood floor etc. and not just against a plain wall to see the difference. After comparing literally over a hundred flashlights, I now know exactly what tint, CCT, and CRI (R9) is good for what applications.
I thought 3 or 4 but got distracted and didn’t vote. I would also like to thank my IPS monitor!
SNAP!
I didn’t end up voting, because I could not decide. The crayons were pretty saturated colors, which combined with the limited color space of most monitors and the sRGB standard, meant even for the worst light it was hard to tell between the red channel being maxed out, or just close.
On the other hand, when you get really bad CRI, and especially combined with a very cool color temperature, you get this:
Alive and Dead at the same time
I have never, in all my time enjoying the outdoors, found myself lamenting the ugly green tint of real daylight.
However, when comparing lights of various of various CRI’s and Duv’s under similar situations, I do find a preference to stay at or very slightly below the BBL.
You always say this…
I start to wonder where you got your 219C from.
Must admit, the 3000K and 2700K i got from Clemence i find way too green too.
But not the 3500K and above.
Although my first impression of the 4000K in a C8 with OP reflector was very disappointing.
Definitely positive DUV in the corona. Not nice.
But i love them in a TIR optic.
I’ve only ever had two 219C lights ,but both were green. 1 was a Manker E14 straight from Manker (5000k R9050), the other was a D4S from Intl Outdoor (5000k R9050).
Hmmm…
I think i bought the quad board with optic from Intl Outdoor…
Not tested yet, but i like the ones from the horrible Astrolux S42.
Will test the IO ones soon then…
Hope it’s the same tint as the S42 ones.
I have nine 219C 4000K emitters – three single emitter lights and six loose emitters from KD. All green to varying degrees.
I have 1 4000K triple from KD, which are just a lot warmer (more yellow) than my other 4000K’s.
I bought a bunch from a BLF member WWEFANS and a buch from Clemence, which seem to be the same tint.
Yes, i suppose they are positive DUV, but never bothered me and never greener than any Cree i have.
Some find the LH351D 4000K 90CRI green too.
The ones i got from led4power don’t seem green to me.
Maybe it’s me.
Here’s a comparison I did recently which includes some of my 4000K emitters. I screwed up the label for the 219C. It shouldn’t say V2 5D it should just be 219C D240 4000K 90CRI. No idea what the DUV is on any of these but I have a hard time seeing much green in any of them even though i’m sure some are above the BBL.
That 219C looks goood
No such thing as a 219C v2 5D. You probably wanted to write XP-L HI v2 5D? Cree 5D tint is one of the best ever. It is very similar to Nichia 219B 9080 and E21A. If you compare Cree 5D with a 219C, you will realize how green 219C is unless you get the sm4070E bin from Clemence.
I just received my Fireflies E07 SST-20 95CRI 4000k FA3 tint bin. Turned it on and thought the tint looked really good on turbo (low mode is very green). Then I turned on my D4S with 5D tint and all of a sudden the SST-20 appeared green when compared side by side.
Its a 219C 4k 90cri from Mtn i goofed on the label and mentioned in my comment
FWIW: Who can resist the temptation of absolutes and universal vision?
Our bodies are all somewhat different, doesn’t that include our eyes and eyesight?
Retinas have different ratios of cones, rods, deterioration and sensitivities. Corneas yellow with age.
Blue light scatters more in the vitreous.
Floaters block images, forcing the brain to fill in the voids.
Daylight isn’t always perfect lighting for everybody, emitters can appear much different throughout the day.
Outdoor gardening after sunset is much easier for me using a greenish emitter.
During the day copper, tinted sunglasses give me the best color contrast, similar to the traditional below the ANSI BBL Nichias.
Beautiful tint is in the eyes of the beholder.
High Cri for interior design and selling consumer goods can be significant for us flashaholics, but hardly a panacea.
Looking at the numbers on Optisolis, seems like the higher CCT you go, the slightly better the numbers. I’m almost tempted to get a 6500k one just for the novelty of it. Maybe one 6500k and one 5000k.
Weren’t the E21A and 20 degree Optisolis scheduled to go live a couple days ago?
Yup, if only the custom didn’t returned my lens back to the sender. They RE-ship back the packet two days ago. That must one hell of dizzy trips for the lens
EDIT: wrong answer…Some suggests me to wait until they’re all ready because some people want to get both Jetusolis and Jetue21a. And not all people watch this forum.
- Clemence
www.virence.com
Physical and thermal properties of solder alloy - Shooting Beamshots With HDR - Nichia E21A Tint Shots
Its Okay To Be Smart - SmarterEveryDay - Deep Look - Veritasium - Tech Ingredients
Waiting for beam perfection is a wait worth it. Is the bezel hard to screw off in case I did want to put like a 1/8th minus green on?
Yes, not all Jet-U I got free from glue….
Some are very hard to open. Luckily it’s not real threadlocker, judging from the residue it’s more like an UHU glue. Meant to ease the installation. Don’t worry, I’ll open it up for you.
- Clemence
www.virence.com
Physical and thermal properties of solder alloy - Shooting Beamshots With HDR - Nichia E21A Tint Shots
Its Okay To Be Smart - SmarterEveryDay - Deep Look - Veritasium - Tech Ingredients
I am very glad these lights are going to happen!
As I see it, the higher the CCT, the closer the theoretical black body peak gets to the LED. You don’t need the phosphor to produce as much red, and you don’t need to trade off as much blue to get your other colors.
Up to about 4000K, the black body peak happens beyond the human visual range, but the phosphor peaks happen within the visual range, so their output is declining as wavelength increases in a range where the theoretical target needs increasing output as wavelength increases.
UPDATE 190120: First batch production has started
Bad news (for me). Newer Jet-U are GLUED. Fortunately, still removable although with extra hassles and chemistry lesson
- Clemence
www.virence.com
Physical and thermal properties of solder alloy - Shooting Beamshots With HDR - Nichia E21A Tint Shots
Its Okay To Be Smart - SmarterEveryDay - Deep Look - Veritasium - Tech Ingredients
I wonder if anyone has ever tried to suppress the violet/blue peak with, say, a uv lee filter? What kind of tint/cri shift does this cause?
I dont mean to cut it off entirely, just to the point so that it does not stick from the black body spectrum
Your eyes are so insensitive to this wavelength that the height of that peak has relatively little influence on tint and CRI. And correct if I’m talking nonsense but keeping that peak a little higher may provide some compensation for the cyan dip. In any case, if it is better to lower that peak the best way is adding more phosfor so that it is converted to greens and reds instead of wasted inside a filter.
link to djozz tests
Djozz, theoretically, I agree with your every word. What I mean is that since the amount of phosfor is a given, i wonder if there is any measureable difference in tint/cri? I have these lee filters and a 3× 5000k optisolis mule, so I’ll try to see if there is any visible difference, but I also interested in measurements
What I observed was that there was an obvious difference between a 5k optisolis and 5k e21a in the blue/green range.
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