Andúril 2 coming to Sofirn - The general Sofirn development thread

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Petelele
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JasonWW wrote:
Petelele wrote:
Valynor wrote:

Just found this: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000246528557.html?spm=2114.12010611.8148356.4.426c5223ay9xJ3


 


“Sofirn IF25”

man that looks interesting, if it has temp ramping its gonna be a real banger, id love a 2 emitter version of this just for cost saving, id probably feel comfortable spending 20EUR on that and not more, and i guess that thing is gonna be 40-50 EUR. interesting light though, maybe the emisar D4v3 have temp ramping? if it has like 4k lumens and temp ramping id have no problems spending 50 bucks on it//
Temperature ramping should mean only 2 led output max. It has to stay balanced, so the middle tint would use all 4 at half power. I don’t think it will be anywhere near 4000 lumen. Then again, I don’t follow the lantern thread, maybe they can work some software magic.

I sort of assumed that the turbo mode would bypass the temperature ramping to deliver max output, besides even at half output Emisars emit plenty of light, not 4000 lumens but as long as the turbo is there for max output i could totally get excited about a light like this!
Edit: i just saw that turbo will deliver 2500 lumens, is this with the LEDs at half power or do you think there is already a sort of temp bypass in place? if not that seems like a missed opportunity.

Vraag niet hoe 't kan, maar profiteer ervan.

JasonWW
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I would assume that 2500 lumen is with both CW LEDs maxed out. The WW LEDs maxed out would probably be less. (Yes, I see the specs say max WW is 1400 lumen)

Would people be okay if Turbo did an override of the color temp? Some folks might not like that.

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Petelele
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JasonWW wrote:
I would assume that 2500 lumen is with both CW LEDs maxed out. The WW LEDs maxed out would probably be less. (Yes, I see the specs say max WW is 1400 lumen)

Would people be okay if Turbo did an override of the color temp? Some folks might not like that.


Since it has ramping id assume that if you ramp the light to the max it maintains the temp selected, and when double clicking it engages true turbo and overrides the temp. that is how i envisioned it at least.
so if im getting this correctly the max output of this light is the 2CW on max and the WW off? why not have them all on?

Vraag niet hoe 't kan, maar profiteer ervan.

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Petelele wrote:
This might be the wrong topic im posting in here, but the Sofirn C01 used to come with a nice 3200k Yuji LED, now the C01S comes with a 4000k SST-20 which i dont doubt is also very nice. The thing is im only really interested in a 3000k (or close) AAA high cri flashlight, does anyone make those nowadays? Or is there a place where i can still buy the C01 with the yuji warm white.

The Sofirn C01 is currently sold out and production is halted.
Buying one from a fellow BLF member is your best short term option.

However there are some relevant developments on the high-cri warm white 5mm LED flashlight front.

First, you might want to have a look a this thread: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/69056
BLF member rngwn sells 5mm high-cri LEDs which seem to be at least as nice as the 3200K Yuji LED, although they are 3400K.
Djozz posted his measurements which look promising.
With these LED’s you can convert any 5mm LED flashlight relatively easily into a warm white high-cri one. This might be your best bet at this moment for a Do It Yourself project.

Second, there is also another thread where interest is collected for a Sofirn C01 host version without LED and potting, so people can add their own 5mm LED: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/68251
Currently interest seems stuck at around 100, which might not be enough to convince Sofirn to start a production run.

Finally, perhaps Sofirn could use the 5mm 3400K LEDs found by rngwn as a successor to the Yuji LEDs to make a new batch of the C01 flashlight?

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Petelele wrote:
why not have them all on?

You’ll have to take that up with the software programmer.

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Petelele
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slowtechstef wrote:
Petelele wrote:
This might be the wrong topic im posting in here, but the Sofirn C01 used to come with a nice 3200k Yuji LED, now the C01S comes with a 4000k SST-20 which i dont doubt is also very nice. The thing is im only really interested in a 3000k (or close) AAA high cri flashlight, does anyone make those nowadays? Or is there a place where i can still buy the C01 with the yuji warm white.

The Sofirn C01 is currently sold out and production is halted.
Buying one from a fellow BLF member is your best short term option.

However there are some relevant developments on the high-cri warm white 5mm LED flashlight front.

First, you might want to have a look a this thread: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/69056
BLF member rngwn sells 5mm high-cri LEDs which seem to be at least as nice as the 3200K Yuji LED, although they are 3400K.
Djozz posted his measurements which look promising.
With these LED’s you can convert any 5mm LED flashlight relatively easily into a warm white high-cri one. This might be your best bet at this moment for a Do It Yourself project.

Second, there is also another thread where interest is collected for a Sofirn C01 host version without LED and potting, so people can add their own 5mm LED: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/68251
Currently interest seems stuck at around 100, which might not be enough to convince Sofirn to start a production run.

Finally, perhaps Sofirn could use the 5mm 3400K LEDs found by rngwn as a successor to the Yuji LEDs to make a new batch of the C01 flashlight?

I just bought a Yuji 3200k from Geuzzz together with his custom S1 Mini with an sst-20 3000k in it. wasnt planning on buying any more flashlights this month (outside of the upcoming D1Sv2 i already set some money aside for when that comes out) but i got too good an offer to pass up on.

Vraag niet hoe 't kan, maar profiteer ervan.

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I noticed the “Sofirn IF25” tint-ramping flashlight being teased in the Sofirn FB page.

I recall last month (September 2019), it indicated that this tint ramping flashlight will be using 2x LH351D 2700k and 2x LH351D 6500k.

Now the post has been updated again (October 2019), and also they have a link in the Sofirn AliExpress store, but doesn’t seem for sale yet). Now the post indicates that this tint-ramping flashlight uses 2x SST20 2700k and 2x SST20 6500k.

I wonder what would have been better 2x LH351D each of 2700k/6500k or 2x SST20 2700k/6500k?

SST20 LEDs at low brightness level tends to be greenish, so that would be a negative thing for me..

But it looks like they’re still developing the flashlight, hope they can post some teaser videos of the tint-ramp (either with LH351D or with SST20), and maybe ask people for comments..

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Tint mixed it won’t be greenish. Though it is a funny mix of CRI 70 and 95.

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Agro wrote:
Though it is a funny mix of CRI 70 and 95.

How so? You think they should use both 70 cri?

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Looks like the new Sofirn SP33v3.0 is almost there, it just popped up at AliExpress.

3500lm output from a Cree XHP 50.2, type C USB rechargeable port, 2 groups , group 1: 6 modes from moonlight to turbo, group 2 ramping, stainless steel bezel.


*Screenshot from photo at AliExpress

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Almost double the price of the original :/ at least, for now.

Wonder what the 6 levels will be…

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JasonWW wrote:
Agro wrote:
Though it is a funny mix of CRI 70 and 95.

How so? You think they should use both 70 cri?

I think it would be best if both had the same CRI, regardless if that’s 70 or 95 because the way it is now both CRI and efficiency will be suboptimal.
But in the case of SST-20 CRI70 is only available in cool CCTs and CRI95 is only warm, so they didn’t really have a choice…
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Agro wrote:
Tint mixed it won't be greenish. Though it is a funny mix of CRI 70 and 95.

 

I have an Emisar D4v2 with custom-tint-mixed SST20 (1 each of 3000/4000/5000/6500k SST20 LED). It does look a bit less greenish than other SST20-5000/6500k lights but there's still some green.

 

Below, I did a tint comparison with a Nichia 219B SW45k R9080  (the right side is a Fireflies PL47 with Nichia 219B SW45K at fixed brightness level) while the D4v2 with mixed-tint SST20 is ramping in brightness.

 

(granted this is not 'tint-ramping' like the one that will be on the Sofirn IF25, but just a demo...)

 

 

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Agro wrote:
JasonWW wrote:
Agro wrote:
Though it is a funny mix of CRI 70 and 95.

How so? You think they should use both 70 cri?

I think it would be best if both had the same CRI, regardless if that’s 70 or 95 because the way it is now both CRI and efficiency will be suboptimal.
But in the case of SST-20 CRI70 is only available in cool CCTs and CRI95 is only warm, so they didn’t really have a choice…

If they didn’t have a choice, how could it be a funny mix? This is what confused me about your statement.

Surely Luminus offers a low CRI version in 4000K or warm white. They may be undesirable and cost less. Thumbs Up But would it be worth it? Would people buy the light? It may put people off.

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d_t_a wrote:

Agro wrote:
Tint mixed it won’t be greenish. Though it is a funny mix of CRI 70 and 95.

 


I have an Emisar D4v2 with custom-tint-mixed SST20 (1 each of 3000/4000/5000/6500k SST20 LED). It does look a bit less greenish than other SST20-5000/6500k lights but there’s still some green.


Very interesting, thanks for the input.
My thoughts:
  • 2700+6500 will be rosier than 3000+4000+5000+6500
  • IIRC there were complaints about Emisar AR coated lens making the beam more green
  • De-greening caused by tint mixing works only when there’s significant mixing going on – IF25 will likely be greenish when driven cool or warm but I wouldn’t expect greenness in neutral

JasonWW wrote:
Agro wrote:
JasonWW wrote:
Agro wrote:
Though it is a funny mix of CRI 70 and 95.

How so? You think they should use both 70 cri?

I think it would be best if both had the same CRI, regardless if that’s 70 or 95 because the way it is now both CRI and efficiency will be suboptimal.
But in the case of SST-20 CRI70 is only available in cool CCTs and CRI95 is only warm, so they didn’t really have a choice…

If they didn’t have a choice, how could it be a funny mix? This is what confused me about your statement.

I simply wouldn’t use SST-20 for such light. Or stay within a single CRI range, limiting the ramping range. Now…given the market limitations what they’ve done is not unreasonable. But I still find it funny.

JasonWW wrote:
Surely Luminus offers a low CRI version in 4000K or warm white. They may be undesirable and cost less. Thumbs Up But would it be worth it? Would people buy the light? It may put people off.

I assumed they mix 95 with 70 solely on the assumption that 95 is warm-only and 70 is cool-only. You seem to know this to be untrue.
Other CCTs are not on Luminus website. Any more info about them?
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I guess they didn’t go with 2700K + 5000K LH351Ds like in the LT1 because they would be floodier than many people want but that would have been a better route IMO. Better tint, and all high CRI.

A wider tint ramping range is neat, but really a novelty since 5000K is the coolest many would want anyway.

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Dumb question, maybe, but whaddya gonna do with it?

Eg, I got a coupla Zanflare T1s but just leave mine on WW, never had much inclination to change its CT. So once you find a CT you like… then what?

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Lightbringer wrote:
Dumb question, maybe, but whaddya gonna do with it?

Eg, I got a coupla Zanflare T1s but just leave mine on WW, never had much inclination to change its CT. So once you find a CT you like… then what?

For some tasks or if your eyes/brain are adjusted to cooler light I think more neutral/cool tint is better at identifying colors, and in certain environments different CCTs make different colors “pop”.

Really the same argument could be made about any of the “fun, but useless” features on many lights. I think losing high-CRI for cooler temps is a big loss for this light because that serves a very practical purpose though IMO.

JasonWW wrote:
Surely Luminus offers a low CRI version in 4000K or warm white.

They don’t, 90+ or nothing.

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Agro wrote:
You seem to know this to be untrue.
Other CCTs are not on Luminus website. Any more info about them?

I’m making logical assumption based on manufacturing process. See below.
BurningPlayd0h wrote:
JasonWW wrote:
Surely Luminus offers a low CRI version in 4000K or warm white.

They don’t, 90+ or nothing.


This is what’s interesting. Do they have it, but not offer it for sale or do they not have it at all? As most know they can’t accurately predict the tint, cri or efficacy of the leds rolling off the assembly line. Each one is checked and they are divided up into bins.

I wonder if they physically get some WW leds with low CRI or if it’s somehow impossible, maybe due to their phosphor mix and assembly techniques. Any units that are below the 90 CRI cutoff may be put in a reject bin and sold surplus to companies looking for the cheapest led possible. Maybe they are scrapped altogether.

I can’t remember off the top of my head, but don’t other manufacturers make WW with low CRI?
(I’ve never paid much attention to CRI because I find it an overrated spec)

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JasonWW wrote:
I can’t remember off the top of my head, but don’t other manufacturers make WW with low CRI?

Yes, they tend to wash out colors with a similar effect to a low-pressure sodium vapor lamp, but not quite to that extreme.

JasonWW wrote:
I’ve never paid much attention to CRI because I find it an overrated spec

It just depends on your use case. For example, I’m a technician and I specifically choose high-CRI lights for work so I can tell different colored wires apart or read the bands on a resistor. I’ve had problems doing this with the cool white low-CRI lights they provide for us.
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Rayoui wrote:

It just depends on your use case. For example, I’m a technician and I specifically choose high-CRI lights for work so I can tell different colored wires apart or read the bands on a resistor. I’ve had problems doing this with the cool white low-CRI lights they provide for us.

Yeah, I use my headlamp for auto/motorcycle work and also need to identify wire colors accurately. I tried a few leds and settled on a 80+ CRI Nichia 319AT in 5000K. It’s about the same as a 219c in 5000K.
I tried a 90+ CRI 4000K 219c, an 80+ CRI LG351D 5000K and the 90+ CRI LH351D 5000K daogf4rts but didn’t think the colors were as good. Just because the CRI was higher didn’t mean it was more accurate for my eyes.

In my normal walking around flashlights I’m not so picky. I just try to stay away from green.

Some people are high CRI snobs, but I guess it depends on the individual and therefore is not automatically better.

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I have some NW and CW emitters which are pretty decent, those “angery blue” tints are just annoying (though I can tolerate them in a 5mm in certain applications).

That said I just don’t see any reason to tolerate low cri anymore. You have the sst-20 which offers high current and output in a small size, LH351d and even the xpl hi is offered in 80+ cri flavors. I guess if you are just trying to build a lumens monster that’s one thing but for real world use why wouldn’t you want a high cri led? I get with the 219 leds you were sacrificing some max output but with newer options you aren’t, really. At least nothing that would be missed.

For example I just reflowed a 4000k sst20 into my lumintop worm. It’s still every bit as bright as it was with the xpg but now in a beautifully neutral tint with great color rendition. Still the same excellent beam shape, too!

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The SST-20 is quite low output for it’s amperage. The XP-G2 blows it away. It’s close to the 219c output. It’s just a small die, so output is not so great.

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Note that it’s lower Vf, so at the same amperage it consumes less power. But at what amperageis it blown away?

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JasonWW wrote:
The SST-20 is quite low output for it’s amperage. The XP-G2 blows it away. It’s close to the 219c output. It’s just a small die, so output is not so great.

IDK what tests you’ve been looking at but 5000K and 6500K SST-20s are certainly not far behind XP-G2 by much, if at all.

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Agro wrote:
Note that it’s lower Vf, so at the same amperage it consumes less power. But at what amperage is it blown away?

BurningPlayd0h wrote:

IDK what tests you’ve been looking at but 5000K and 6500K SST-20s are certainly not far behind XP-G2 by much, if at all.

Maukka test:


I thought this was quite well known. Here is a direct Djozz comparison from this thread. This is a 3,000K, maybe this particular version has lower output? The G2 in this test is a 2B tint so around 5700K. Maybe it is around CRI 70? That might explain some of the big gap.

Maukka’s test above shows higher output, but I can’t find any tests from him on the XP-G2 or 3 for a comparison.

The general characteristics I remember from the SST-20 is it’s cheap, looks good, throws well due to it’s small die size, but output is lower and it runs hotter.

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The 3000K and 4000K are high-CRI only and therefore significantly less efficient. 5000 and 6500K are 70-CRI only and still compete with much larger die emitters in output/efficiency.

On Emisar lights for example the max output of the former is listed at ~3000lm, and 4200+ lm for the latter.

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I think all the SST-20 tests I’ve seen were a while ago and they were all high CRI because that is what people seemed interested in. Like with FW3A for instance, the SST-20 were only for the WW tints then they switched to XPL-HI for NW and CW. You could see the big difference in output and heat. Maybe I have not given the cooler tinted SST-20 enough research. I haven’t fully read Maukka’s 6500K test. Maybe they are not as bad as I thought (efficiency wise).

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Yeah for sheer output while having very high illuminance the cooler SST-20s are pretty solid. Only issue is how green the beam is compared to other options like X-PL HI.

X-PL HI 1A:

SST-20 6500K:

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BurningPlayd0h wrote:
Yeah for sheer output while having very high illuminance the cooler SST-20s are pretty solid. Only issue is how green the beam is compared to other options like X-PL HI.

X-PL HI 1A:

SST-20 6500K:


Who’s numbers are these?
It’s not an apples to apples comparison due the dome difference, but still pretty close. Especially considering the XPL has a 2mm2 die and the SST-20 is closer to 1.20-1.25mm2.

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