Second Generation Silver Plated High Current Beryllium Copper Springs and 95+CRI SST20!

696 posts / 0 new
Last post
SKV89
Offline
Last seen: 14 hours 14 min ago
Joined: 12/10/2017 - 12:46
Posts: 4223
Location: US

Handheld seems more versatile since you can measure any light source including ceiling light fixtures. I will look into the Sekonic. I also want it to have decent spectrum reader so I canuse it to help me minimize blue wavelength lighting in my bedroom. The E21A 2500k with majority red wavelengths seems to really put me to sleep compared with other lights Ive used at bedtime

contactcr
Offline
Last seen: 7 hours 56 min ago
Joined: 05/19/2017 - 18:52
Posts: 3553
Location: US

Maukka uses something like this I believe:

https://www.xrite.com/categories/calibration-profiling/i1basic-pro-2

See this thread:

http://budgetlightforum.com/node/45051

Doesn’t seem much different than what djozz uses

iamlucky13
Offline
Last seen: 3 hours 20 min ago
Joined: 06/22/2018 - 09:18
Posts: 909
Location: USA

netprince wrote:
djozz wrote:
netprince wrote:
djozz… what hardware did you use to get that tint reading in your test? It looks interesting.

A Gossen Mavospec Base, which is a handheld spectrometer targeted to the professional lighting market (but is bought every now and then by a hobby freak). There is similar devices around by Sekonic and other brands.

!{width:30%}https://gossen-photo.de/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/MavospecBase_frei_Dis...!

Cool… yeah I was hoping it was something much less expensive. Smile

You can find guides online to build a Do-It-Yourself spectrometer. It’s similar complexity to DIY lumen tubes.

Here’s some basic spectral analysis software designed to work with DIY spectrometer:
https://publiclab.org/wiki/spectral-workbench-usage

I don’t know if any of the Spectral Workbench contributors have developed a package to produce chromaticity diagrams or calculate CRI.

TheOnlyDocc
TheOnlyDocc's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 months 6 days ago
Joined: 06/26/2015 - 05:17
Posts: 949
Location: Mönchengladbach /Germany

I want to ask if there is a ~eta on the springs? Last thing i read was that theay are ordered. But i did not read all the thread.

New WildTrail (former LuckySun) D80v2 Sale has Started http://budgetlightforum.com/node/66255

DavidEF
DavidEF's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 weeks 3 days ago
Joined: 06/05/2014 - 06:00
Posts: 7699
Location: Salisbury, North Carolina, USA

I think it’s expected to take the slow boat. So probably several weeks. I may be remembering wrong though. Maybe BlueSwordM will step in and answer.

EDIT: I was curious myself, so I looked back at the first spring order. Blue made the order and sent payment by 7-07 and had the springs in his possession by 7-30. That’s 23 days.

The Cycle of Goodness: “No one prospers without rendering benefit to others”
- The YKK Philosophy

BlueSwordM
BlueSwordM's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 days 9 hours ago
Joined: 11/29/2017 - 12:34
Posts: 5552
Location: Canada

Yep. It takes quite a long time, especially since the springs have to be manufactured all at once this time.

Once I have any news about them, I’ll post about it.

My very own high current Beryllium Copper springs Gen 3:
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/67401
Liitokala Aliexpress Stores Battery Fraud: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/60547

BlueSwordM
BlueSwordM's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 days 9 hours ago
Joined: 11/29/2017 - 12:34
Posts: 5552
Location: Canada

Shipping itself is very fast, but making the springs and electroplating them takes more time, as I’ve discovered that they don’t do silver plating on site, unlike nickel and tin.

My very own high current Beryllium Copper springs Gen 3:
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/67401
Liitokala Aliexpress Stores Battery Fraud: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/60547

BlueSwordM
BlueSwordM's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 days 9 hours ago
Joined: 11/29/2017 - 12:34
Posts: 5552
Location: Canada

Sorry if it took a bit more time, but the springs ready, and prepared to ship from the manufacturer.

They all look very nice.

My very own high current Beryllium Copper springs Gen 3:
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/67401
Liitokala Aliexpress Stores Battery Fraud: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/60547

electricjelly
electricjelly's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 hours 37 min ago
Joined: 08/23/2012 - 03:39
Posts: 600
Location: Los Angeles

Lookn good. Thanks for the update

skinny_tie
skinny_tie's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 57 min ago
Joined: 09/23/2017 - 03:14
Posts: 459
Location: Australia

BlueSwordM wrote:
Sorry if it took a bit more time, but the springs ready, and prepared to ship from the manufacturer.

They all look very nice.

Whoa, bling!

BlueSwordM you must have the patience of a saint to untangle all those springs.

BlueSwordM
BlueSwordM's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 days 9 hours ago
Joined: 11/29/2017 - 12:34
Posts: 5552
Location: Canada

Yeah, it takes a bit of time.

However, one way to untangle them all is just to mix them in the bag, then put them in another bag.

Actually works pretty well.

My very own high current Beryllium Copper springs Gen 3:
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/67401
Liitokala Aliexpress Stores Battery Fraud: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/60547

teacher
teacher's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 5 months ago
Joined: 02/23/2016 - 19:04
Posts: 9596
Location: NE & SW Alabama

BlueSwordM wrote:
Sorry if it took a bit more time, but the springs ready, and prepared to ship from the manufacturer.

They all look very nice.

Those look great! Thumbs Up … Looks like the “fun” begins pretty soon for you….. having to sort that tangle out. Smile

You never know how a horse will pull until you hook him up to a heavy load./"Bear" Bryant 

 .................................. "Slow is Smooth, Smooth is Fast" ...................................

       Texas Lumens Flashlights / M4D M4X Deals : sign up - save $$$$  

         Rudeness Level _ mΩ _ {width:70%} _ LightWiki _ LED Tint Chart  

      Xlamp size chart _ BatteryU _ Flashaholic? Need Professional Help???            TheOriginal _ TAB _ LightSearch _ BatterySearch _ 14500's _ DiCal 

 

                                             

cetary
Offline
Last seen: 19 hours 38 min ago
Joined: 10/28/2018 - 20:41
Posts: 175
Location: virginia
SKV89 wrote:
Handheld seems more versatile since you can measure any light source including ceiling light fixtures. I will look into the Sekonic. I also want it to have decent spectrum reader so I canuse it to help me minimize blue wavelength lighting in my bedroom. The E21A 2500k with majority red wavelengths seems to really put me to sleep compared with other lights Ive used at bedtime

This, I have the 2000K E21A, more like 2300K in person, and I feel naturally sleepy with it on for a little while.

contactcr
Offline
Last seen: 7 hours 56 min ago
Joined: 05/19/2017 - 18:52
Posts: 3553
Location: US

Related followup to my earlier post (follow along in maukka’s thread for discussion so we dont derail this one too much)

I ended up buying the cheapest spectrophotometer X-Rite makes (ColorMunki Photo / i1Studio) for $250 used but good condition on ebay. With just that investment I am able to get all the spectrum data needed for CCT/CRI/DUV and can make wavelength and CIE plots with entirely free software.

While it isn’t a self contained mobile device like what djozz has you can buy a $2 OTG cable and a $99 app that will get you “mobile” if you don’t want to use a laptop.

After having done this now I really wish we could do a BLF Arduino/Pi based spectrophotometer and lux meter. It doesn’t seem that complicated, the device outputs a decimal value for each wavelength and that’s it. The rest is just math equations using those numbers to get the rest. No special sauce/proprietary stuff needed.

BlueSwordM
BlueSwordM's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 days 9 hours ago
Joined: 11/29/2017 - 12:34
Posts: 5552
Location: Canada

@contactr, that’s nice. I’d love to get one.

@teacher, yeah, it’s gonna take some time to sort it all out.

Also, guys, I’ve discovered something interesting about electroplating in my research and testing.

Basically, you can do multi-layer plating.

With say a BeCu spring, you can do something like this to up performance significantly:

BeCu wire-Nickel plating-Copper plating(30-40um)-Silver plating(15-20um)

That would actually add a very nice boost to performance without increasing thickness at all.

That would be great for a Rev 3 spring.

My very own high current Beryllium Copper springs Gen 3:
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/67401
Liitokala Aliexpress Stores Battery Fraud: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/60547

BlueSwordM
BlueSwordM's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 days 9 hours ago
Joined: 11/29/2017 - 12:34
Posts: 5552
Location: Canada

Some very good news, some good news, slightly bad news.

Good news : the springs have arrived.

They’ve all been checked to be silver plated via a magnet test.

They also look amazing.

Very good news : the springs have very high conductivity, because not only are the springs silver plated, but also because I removed a coil from the large spring.

Overall, I’d say these are excellent springs. Onto the mechanical analysis :

So, guys, there’s a good reason why I wanted to keep the large springs at 5 coils.

Some data.

Nickel plated large spring: 13mm-12mm. 1mm loss. As expected.

Nickel plated small spring: 11mm-8,5mm. 2,5mm loss. As expected.

Silver plated large spring: 12mm-9,2mm. 2,8mm loss.

Silver plated small spring: 10,5mm-8,0mm. 2,5mm loss. As expected.

You see, when I made the calculations for the 1st spring, I accounted for both yield strength and compression ratio (min height it goes down to). Being less conical than the 2nd gen spring, it had no problem with this.

When I made the calculations for the silver plated large spring, what I did not take into account was the conical shape of the springs, which allowed for more overall compression, which means higher tension, which equals higher force applied, and more room for plastic deformation… You can guess that I’m happy with the large spring, but not ecstatic.

All in all though, I’m still very happy with my springs.
For the 3rd gen springs, I’m just going to keep the same 5 coil design for all of the springs, but spruce up for some multi-layer electroplating.

My very own high current Beryllium Copper springs Gen 3:
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/67401
Liitokala Aliexpress Stores Battery Fraud: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/60547

contactcr
Offline
Last seen: 7 hours 56 min ago
Joined: 05/19/2017 - 18:52
Posts: 3553
Location: US

All good news to me. It’s basically a more universal Emisar spring and I have a lot more uses for such.

teacher
teacher's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 5 months ago
Joined: 02/23/2016 - 19:04
Posts: 9596
Location: NE & SW Alabama

BlueSwordM wrote:
Some very good news, some good news, slightly bad news.

Good news : the springs have arrived.

They’ve all been checked to be silver plated via a magnet test.

They also look amazing.

Very good news : the springs have very high conductivity, because not only are the springs silver plated, but also because I removed a coil from the large spring.

Overall, I’d say these are excellent springs. Onto the mechanical analysis :

So, guys, there’s a good reason why I wanted to keep the large springs at 5 coils.

Some data.

Nickel plated large spring: 13mm-12mm. 1mm loss. As expected.

Nickel plated small spring: 11mm-8,5mm. 2,5mm loss. As expected.

Silver plated large spring: 12mm-9,2mm. 2,8mm loss.

Silver plated small spring: 10,5mm-8,0mm. 2,5mm loss. As expected.

You see, when I made the calculations for the 1st spring, I accounted for both yield strength and compression ratio (min height it goes down to). Being less conical than the 2nd gen spring, it had no problem with this.

When I made the calculations for the silver plated large spring, what I did not take into account was the conical shape of the springs, which allowed for more overall compression, which means higher tension, which equals higher force applied, and more room for plastic deformation… You can guess that I’m happy with the large spring, but not ecstatic.

All in all though, I’m still very happy with my springs.
For the 3rd gen springs, I’m just going to keep the same 5 coil design for all of the springs, but spruce up for some multi-layer electroplating.


Is the part that has not been crossed out the “slightly bad news”??

Maybe this has already been covered, but up above you said : “So, guys, there’s a good reason why I wanted to keep the large springs at 5 coils.”.

If you “wanted to keep it at 5 coils”, why was it changed??

Just curious….

You never know how a horse will pull until you hook him up to a heavy load./"Bear" Bryant 

 .................................. "Slow is Smooth, Smooth is Fast" ...................................

       Texas Lumens Flashlights / M4D M4X Deals : sign up - save $$$$  

         Rudeness Level _ mΩ _ {width:70%} _ LightWiki _ LED Tint Chart  

      Xlamp size chart _ BatteryU _ Flashaholic? Need Professional Help???            TheOriginal _ TAB _ LightSearch _ BatterySearch _ 14500's _ DiCal 

 

                                             

BlueSwordM
BlueSwordM's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 days 9 hours ago
Joined: 11/29/2017 - 12:34
Posts: 5552
Location: Canada

Well, for 2 reasons:

1. Better conductivity because removing 1 coil makes it about 20-25% better.

2. More room for compression.

The thing I did not take into consideration is that I changed the top diameter from 7mm to 6mm.

That meant that the spring could fully compress, meaning it was subject to more force, etc.

Meaning there was more room for plastic deformation, and thus, the 2,8mm instead of 1,0mm.

TLDR: I didn’t have confidence in my own abilities to design a spring, but I already had the results, and I was actually competent knowing about this. I really should’ve believed in my abilities.

Rather than listening to suggestions about even higher conductivity by removing a coil, I should’ve just kept on my original train of thought on how to spec the springs.

Basically, I should’ve just made the top diameter smaller :/

My very own high current Beryllium Copper springs Gen 3:
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/67401
Liitokala Aliexpress Stores Battery Fraud: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/60547

teacher
teacher's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 5 months ago
Joined: 02/23/2016 - 19:04
Posts: 9596
Location: NE & SW Alabama

/\ … OK, thanks for the info BSM. Thumbs Up

Yeah, believe in yourself; I’m thinking you are very competent!! Beer

You never know how a horse will pull until you hook him up to a heavy load./"Bear" Bryant 

 .................................. "Slow is Smooth, Smooth is Fast" ...................................

       Texas Lumens Flashlights / M4D M4X Deals : sign up - save $$$$  

         Rudeness Level _ mΩ _ {width:70%} _ LightWiki _ LED Tint Chart  

      Xlamp size chart _ BatteryU _ Flashaholic? Need Professional Help???            TheOriginal _ TAB _ LightSearch _ BatterySearch _ 14500's _ DiCal 

 

                                             

DavidEF
DavidEF's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 weeks 3 days ago
Joined: 06/05/2014 - 06:00
Posts: 7699
Location: Salisbury, North Carolina, USA

So, plastic deformation is almost 3x what it was in the first generation large spring. That’s not good. But it depends on the installation whether it will be a deal breaker or not. In some lights, short cells could be a real problem. In other lights, it might be okay. Do the springs still stack pretty well? I wonder if the large spring with a small one stacked inside it will still deform as much as the large spring by itself does.

The Cycle of Goodness: “No one prospers without rendering benefit to others”
- The YKK Philosophy

BlueSwordM
BlueSwordM's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 days 9 hours ago
Joined: 11/29/2017 - 12:34
Posts: 5552
Location: Canada

They actually stack even better than the 1st gen.

My very own high current Beryllium Copper springs Gen 3:
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/67401
Liitokala Aliexpress Stores Battery Fraud: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/60547

DavidEF
DavidEF's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 weeks 3 days ago
Joined: 06/05/2014 - 06:00
Posts: 7699
Location: Salisbury, North Carolina, USA

Would you test the plastic deformation while stacked and see if it is still 2.8mm deep?

The Cycle of Goodness: “No one prospers without rendering benefit to others”
- The YKK Philosophy

BlueSwordM
BlueSwordM's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 days 9 hours ago
Joined: 11/29/2017 - 12:34
Posts: 5552
Location: Canada

Well, you’re right!

By spreading the force over a large surface area, we are reducing the compression force/area for the spring, and the deformation isn’t as bad.

Overall though, while it’s the 2nd best spring electrically, the 2nd gen large spring is worse mechanically than the 1st gen one.

However, this is just my fault on my part for not believing my initial calculations.

And it’s not all bad news though! The electrical conductivity is off the charts, and with the lower resistance, we went from 20A+ for a dual spring setup, to 24A+. So even better Smile

Finally, I’ve prepped all of the orders that only have the springs+3500k LEDs. The orders with 3000k will be completed on Tuesday, and shipped on Wednesday.

I will be receiving the SST-20 3000k LEDs on Tuesday, so I’ll have to wait until then.

My very own high current Beryllium Copper springs Gen 3:
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/67401
Liitokala Aliexpress Stores Battery Fraud: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/60547

BlueSwordM
BlueSwordM's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 days 9 hours ago
Joined: 11/29/2017 - 12:34
Posts: 5552
Location: Canada

Also, I’ve discovered something that could actually lower the price of the springs while getting the same performance!

It’s called triple layer plating. Will talk about it soon enough.

For now, sorry for the spoiler, but here are the 3rd gen specs, especially since this 2nd gen will go by extremely quickly this time around, since I’ve got everything I need and the material necessary. :/

Small spring:
Material: Beryllium Copper C17530 38% IACS
Spring upper diameter: 4,25mm
Spring base diameter: 5,75mm
Spring thickness: 0,8mm
Spring height: 10,5mm
Total number of coils: 5
Plating: Silver electroplating

Large spring:

Material: Beryllium Copper C17530 38% IACS
Spring upper diameter: 6mm
Spring base diameter: 9mm
Spring thickness: 1,0mm
Spring height: 13mm
*Total number of coils: 5 *
Plating: Silver electroplating or triple layered nickel plating(nickel-copper-nickel)

My very own high current Beryllium Copper springs Gen 3:
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/67401
Liitokala Aliexpress Stores Battery Fraud: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/60547

djozz
djozz's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 26 sec ago
Joined: 09/07/2012 - 17:04
Posts: 17465
Location: Amsterdam

Hi Blue, what is the reason that you represent the performance of your springs in current (A) instead of resistance (Ohm)?, since the current is dependent on not just the spring but also the voltage over the spring. And how would I calculate the resistance of a say 24A Blue spring?

BlueSwordM
BlueSwordM's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 days 9 hours ago
Joined: 11/29/2017 - 12:34
Posts: 5552
Location: Canada

Well, let’s say the nickel plated springs have a resistance of 10mOhms each(technically, it’s lower, but I like round numbers).

In a dual spring setup, that would mean they have a resistance of 5mOhms.

The max power dissipation is 2,2W.

So: 0,0005Ohms*20A = 2,00W.

With the silver plated springs, it should be lower.

However, I didn’t have the time to measure it yesterday, so I’ll do it today.

Edit: Tomorrow actually. Got some work to do today. I have to cover someone at work for being sick.

My very own high current Beryllium Copper springs Gen 3:
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/67401
Liitokala Aliexpress Stores Battery Fraud: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/60547

BlueSwordM
BlueSwordM's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 days 9 hours ago
Joined: 11/29/2017 - 12:34
Posts: 5552
Location: Canada

@djozz, the reason I’m saying amps instead of mOhms is because for some reason, people have more ease with amperage measurements rather than resistance measurements.

My very own high current Beryllium Copper springs Gen 3:
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/67401
Liitokala Aliexpress Stores Battery Fraud: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/60547

aswang
Offline
Last seen: 1 month 2 weeks ago
Joined: 07/17/2018 - 07:53
Posts: 281
Location: Philippines

Just saw this thread :FACEPALM:. Are these still available?

BlueSwordM
BlueSwordM's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 days 9 hours ago
Joined: 11/29/2017 - 12:34
Posts: 5552
Location: Canada

Yes. They are still available. How many would you like to have?

My very own high current Beryllium Copper springs Gen 3:
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/67401
Liitokala Aliexpress Stores Battery Fraud: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/60547

Pages