Imalent MS18 with 100,000Lumen and R90TS with 36,000Lumen

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Spartan
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wolfdog1226 wrote:
@Spartan

-He has been doing it there for over 10 years. No complaints yet.

-The light is only on for several seconds

-THAT amount of lumens is a rarity as far as testing

- a vast majority of his lights are tested up in the tree tops.

-I do not think there is a lot to worry about UNLESS he left it on for an extended period of time which he can’t becuase of heat build up and battery depletion. Big Smile

And I have seen a lot of youtube videos of people testing flashlights, other then this one, none have been done off a major highway.

Case in point….

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JVqRy0sWWY

Further…

Even when i was testing my new toy, a mere 5000 lumen Q8, I got in the car and found an end street in an industrial area. Nobody gave me the right to shine it through someones window…or passing cars.

Just saying….

Moses came from the mountaintop carrying a tablet. The Words were....WITH GREAT LUMENS COMES GREAT REPONSIBILITY.

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I have a GREAT idea,,,,,,,,,,,,LETS GET BACK ON TOPIC and respect the OP’S THREAD!

You have your view and I have mine,a USELESS DISCUSSION! Wink

P.S A lot times discussions/arguments on these types of forum comes down to EGO, PRIDE, Preference and Who thinks they are right!

How about WHO CARES! LOL!

Solitude breeds contemplation which creates clarity. 

Environment molds a person. Perseverance changes them. 

                                                                   WOLFDOG 

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I have a DX80 and when I use it in the winter the amount of light that reflects back at me from the snow is almost blinding. 3x more lumens with even more flood to cause more backwards reflection…

Sounds like Imalent should include some welding goggles for the operator!

mattadores
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I was just thinking about Spartans comments on pushing the boundaries to the point that Gov’t wants to start regulating. I definitely agree that as we reach 100k lumens there is great potential for bad publicity.

I think that our primary line of defense is how expensive these lights are. That should create enough of a barrier to the irresponsible that those who buy it respect it and keep it safe so it’s not used as a toy.

I definitely agree that the potential for accidental vision damage or fire starting is serious.

On that note though: doesn’t a highly concentrated throwers beam have just as much or even more vision damage potential?

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mattadores wrote:
I was just thinking about Spartans comments on pushing the boundaries to the point that Gov’t wants to start regulating. I definitely agree that as we reach 100k lumens there is great potential for bad publicity.

I think that our primary line of defense is how expensive these lights are. That should create enough of a barrier to the irresponsible that those who buy it respect it and keep it safe so it’s not used as a toy.

I definitely agree that the potential for accidental vision damage or fire starting is serious.

On that note though: doesn’t a highly concentrated throwers beam have just as much or even more vision damage potential?

At a distance…. yes. A thrower like a BLF GT is going to appear much brighter and possibly do much more damage than a floody light with less lux even though the floody light might have 100x the lumen output.

However, if you take your flashlight and shine it into your eyes from a 1 ft away… then the floody light will probably cause much greater injury.

Will the government need to regulate these lights? I don’t think so. There’s a big difference in danger to others between a floody flashlight and a laser. And many light sources such as professional stadium lights or theater projector lights can produce many more lumens than the DX80 and they aren’t regulated.
____________________________________________________________

Now… time to get back to the topic at hand Cool : … the DX80!

A super-bright hobbyist light that pushes the envelope. It’s nice to see Imalent pushing the limits of what can be done with today’s tech even if this light is extremely impractical. If you need a floody light, something smaller will work just fine. And if you need something illuminated in the distance, then BLF GT or equivalent is a better choice.

It’s

mihlit
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100k lm… that reminded me this comic strip:

LouieAtienza
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mattadores wrote:
I was just thinking about Spartans comments on pushing the boundaries to the point that Gov’t wants to start regulating. I definitely agree that as we reach 100k lumens there is great potential for bad publicity.

I think that our primary line of defense is how expensive these lights are. That should create enough of a barrier to the irresponsible that those who buy it respect it and keep it safe so it’s not used as a toy.

I definitely agree that the potential for accidental vision damage or fire starting is serious.

On that note though: doesn’t a highly concentrated throwers beam have just as much or even more vision damage potential?

Well it didn’t take long when Wicked Lasers made the Arctic Spyder that shipping got shut down in the US (thankfully I got one.) and that was just under 1W. It didn’t help that they called it a Light Saber (or Sabre for the Euro and Canada guys) or that they showed videos of it burning stuff or advertised it as the “most dangerous laser in the World!” And that wasn’t that long ago – 6-8 years? It doesn’t stop folks from making 10W lasers.

I think gasoline is more harmful to the eyes and can cause a bigger fire, but that doesn’t stop people from jamming the gas cap under the pump handle and rubbing their tushes on the car seat creating static electricity, or using their cell phones, or filling gas in milk jugs in their trunk, etc…

The reality is that for 99% of us, these are our toys. Of course, as Clark Kent’s father said, “With great power comes great responsibility” and yes we are our own self-defense. This doesn’t prevent some dumb YouTube rich kid to buy one of these and laze his eyes blind; I have no sympathy for these idiots, it’s Darwinism at work. But I think we’re safe – I doubt even .1% of Americans know who Imalent are anyway.

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R90C V2 has landed woot! As soon as I get my R90TS there’s going to be an R90C for sale lol

Nokoff..still Made in China 山寨主義

mattadores
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mihlit wrote:
100k lm… that reminded me this comic strip:

That is the best meme I’ve seen on BLFLOVE IT Crazy

Also, definitely want one of those lights myself!

mattadores
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Yeah I agree. I’m not concerned but the potential exists.

LOL Wicked lasers were IDIOTS… they marketed their extremely dangerous lasers as EXTREMELY DANGEROUS.

They even marketed their temporarily worlds brightest flashlight as THE BEST FIRE STARTER EVER.

There’s a way to attract the wrong attention and NOBODY did it better than Wickedlasers

Spartan
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mattadores wrote:
I have a DX80 and when I use it in the winter the amount of light that reflects back at me from the snow is almost blinding. 3x more lumens with even more flood to cause more backwards reflection…

Sounds like Imalent should include some welding goggles for the operator!

Same thing happened when I tested the Q8 at the side of the plant. The ground had a blanket of snow and it lit up the entire parking lot. 100,000 lumen would be so bright, I would have to aim it at tree top level to avoid the glare.

Let’s be honest, it’s a toy. So for those who can afford it, go at it.

Moses came from the mountaintop carrying a tablet. The Words were....WITH GREAT LUMENS COMES GREAT REPONSIBILITY.

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So are these new lights using the same head as the old ones, just with a new 18 emitter reflector?

I believe the old lights used 8 × 20700 cells, but the new version uses 8 × 21700. I wonder if they redesigned the battery tube to be slightly larger in diameter?

If so, maybe they redesigned the head to be slightly larger to fit the new battery tube diameter?

They’re centrifugal Style fan cooling system can work in theory, they just need to have multiple are shields in place to direct the airflow properly. You basically want to have one side of the flashlights as an air Inlet in the other side as an outlet. I wonder if they have actually improved the airflow?

Texas Ace Lumen Tube and JoshK Sphere calibrated with Maukka lights

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Spartan
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LouieAtienza wrote:
mattadores wrote:
I was just thinking about Spartans comments on pushing the boundaries to the point that Gov’t wants to start regulating. I definitely agree that as we reach 100k lumens there is great potential for bad publicity.

I think that our primary line of defense is how expensive these lights are. That should create enough of a barrier to the irresponsible that those who buy it respect it and keep it safe so it’s not used as a toy.

I definitely agree that the potential for accidental vision damage or fire starting is serious.

On that note though: doesn’t a highly concentrated throwers beam have just as much or even more vision damage potential?

Well it didn’t take long when Wicked Lasers made the Arctic Spyder that shipping got shut down in the US (thankfully I got one.) and that was just under 1W. It didn’t help that they called it a Light Saber (or Sabre for the Euro and Canada guys) or that they showed videos of it burning stuff or advertised it as the “most dangerous laser in the World!” And that wasn’t that long ago – 6-8 years? It doesn’t stop folks from making 10W lasers.

I think gasoline is more harmful to the eyes and can cause a bigger fire, but that doesn’t stop people from jamming the gas cap under the pump handle and rubbing their tushes on the car seat creating static electricity, or using their cell phones, or filling gas in milk jugs in their trunk, etc…

The reality is that for 99% of us, these are our toys. Of course, as Clark Kent’s father said, “With great power comes great responsibility” and yes we are our own self-defense. This doesn’t prevent some dumb YouTube rich kid to buy one of these and laze his eyes blind; I have no sympathy for these idiots, it’s Darwinism at work. But I think we’re safe – I doubt even .1% of Americans know who Imalent are anyway.

I went looking for a video on Artic Spyder. Came across some comments about using it for pest control.

Really? Blinding animals is a good use for a powerful laser?

Rest my case.

Moses came from the mountaintop carrying a tablet. The Words were....WITH GREAT LUMENS COMES GREAT REPONSIBILITY.

Spartan
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JasonWW wrote:
So are these new lights using the same head as the old ones, just with a new 18 emitter reflector?

I believe the old lights used 8 × 20700 cells, but the new version uses 8 × 21700. I wonder if they redesigned the battery tube to be slightly larger in diameter?

If so, maybe they redesigned the head to be slightly larger to fit the new battery tube diameter?

They’re centrifugal Style fan cooling system can work in theory, they just need to have multiple are shields in place to direct the airflow properly. You basically want to have one side of the flashlights as an air Inlet in the other side as an outlet. I wonder if they have actually improved the airflow?

That’s were I was heading with the BLF Sabre. Move the head off the battery tube and cool it with a fan.

I have another design that has an even better and more radical solution for cooling and it WILL work, but it remains in……my imagination.

Moses came from the mountaintop carrying a tablet. The Words were....WITH GREAT LUMENS COMES GREAT REPONSIBILITY.

LouieAtienza
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Spartan wrote:
LouieAtienza wrote:
mattadores wrote:
I was just thinking about Spartans comments on pushing the boundaries to the point that Gov’t wants to start regulating. I definitely agree that as we reach 100k lumens there is great potential for bad publicity.

I think that our primary line of defense is how expensive these lights are. That should create enough of a barrier to the irresponsible that those who buy it respect it and keep it safe so it’s not used as a toy.

I definitely agree that the potential for accidental vision damage or fire starting is serious.

On that note though: doesn’t a highly concentrated throwers beam have just as much or even more vision damage potential?

Well it didn’t take long when Wicked Lasers made the Arctic Spyder that shipping got shut down in the US (thankfully I got one.) and that was just under 1W. It didn’t help that they called it a Light Saber (or Sabre for the Euro and Canada guys) or that they showed videos of it burning stuff or advertised it as the “most dangerous laser in the World!” And that wasn’t that long ago – 6-8 years? It doesn’t stop folks from making 10W lasers.

I think gasoline is more harmful to the eyes and can cause a bigger fire, but that doesn’t stop people from jamming the gas cap under the pump handle and rubbing their tushes on the car seat creating static electricity, or using their cell phones, or filling gas in milk jugs in their trunk, etc…

The reality is that for 99% of us, these are our toys. Of course, as Clark Kent’s father said, “With great power comes great responsibility” and yes we are our own self-defense. This doesn’t prevent some dumb YouTube rich kid to buy one of these and laze his eyes blind; I have no sympathy for these idiots, it’s Darwinism at work. But I think we’re safe – I doubt even .1% of Americans know who Imalent are anyway.

I went looking for a video on Artic Spyder. Came across some comments about using it for pest control.

Really? Blinding animals is a good use for a powerful laser?

Rest my case.

People use gasoline for pest control too. If anyone can abuse anything, they will. Because they can. Or we can live in a nanny state where we’re given rations – then we wouldn’t be allowed to own anything. John Lennon thought that was cool. I love the Beatles, but he was dead wrong. What percentage of the population owns an Arctic Spyder? And then what percentage uses it for pest control? There are always going to be idiots. Some idiot kid in the Midwest not too long ago took apart thousands of CO2 detectors. Why? To build a nuclear reactor in his parents’ backyard shed. His parents thought the welts on his face were from acne. Do we go and regulate CO2 detectors?

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Spartan wrote:
That’s were I was heading with the BLF Sabre. Move the head off the battery tube and cool it with a fan.

I have another design that has an even better and more radical solution for cooling and it WILL work, but it remains in……my imagination.

When you separate the head from the body, you eliminate the body as a potential aid in cooling. To me, if you made the body slightly wider in diameter, and put a fan at the tail cap, you have the entire surface area of the body, not just the head. You also wouldn’t have to worry about routing wires though a small outer pillar.

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Comparing the MS12 to the MS18 it does look like a new head design. It actually has less cooling vents in it. Is that a good thing or bad thing? Maybe they redesigned the cooling to make it more efficient?

Texas Ace Lumen Tube and JoshK Sphere calibrated with Maukka lights

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JasonWW wrote:
Comparing the MS12 to the MS18 it does look like a new head design. It actually has less cooling vents in it. Is that a good thing or bad thing? Maybe they redesigned the cooling to make it more efficient?

Your theory is plausible or not? One side air intake, and the other exhaust?

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hIKARInoob wrote:
One side air intake, and the other exhaust?

That is really hard to do if they are using the same fan setup as before. Centrifugal fans pull air into it’s center and blows it out the sides. Hopefully they went with a different fan design. Maybe a radial fan blowing left to right. I hope so.

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Maybe you can take a drill to your MS18 when you get one to add extra cooling vents.

For science of course. Silly

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I have zero interest in buying a MS18. It’s too expensive and I have no use for it. I’m just curious about the design of it. It’s like an alien, I want to dissect it and see how it works. Big Smile

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JasonWW wrote:
I have zero interest in buying a MS18. It’s too expensive and I have no use for it. I’m just curious about the design of it. It’s like an alien, I want to dissect it and see how it works. Big Smile

That’s probably how aliens feel about us too.

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hIKARInoob wrote:
JasonWW wrote:
I have zero interest in buying a MS18. It's too expensive and I have no use for it. I'm just curious about the design of it. It's like an alien, I want to dissect it and see how it works. :D
That's probably how aliens feel about us too.

 

I can just imagine aliens looking at us like lab rats!  To them we would have to be considered a very dumb and violent species.

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LouieAtienza wrote:
Spartan wrote:
That’s were I was heading with the BLF Sabre. Move the head off the battery tube and cool it with a fan.

I have another design that has an even better and more radical solution for cooling and it WILL work, but it remains in……my imagination.

When you separate the head from the body, you eliminate the body as a potential aid in cooling. To me, if you made the body slightly wider in diameter, and put a fan at the tail cap, you have the entire surface area of the body, not just the head. You also wouldn’t have to worry about routing wires though a small outer pillar.

I thought about that and is a potential solution BUT you need to force too much air and consequently a larger diameter to hold on to.

You already have 2” body to accommodate 4 cells, now you need to get to 3” to have an adequate space to carry air. But, that is still not enough to carry hundreds of cfm. Now you need to get into to 4” plus diameter. The only other solution to high cfm is more pressure, not really a solution.

There is another way…and it’s nothing like anything ever made. Start thinking about much more surface area and how to achieve that. Throw away everything you know and just try to see how to get massive amount of surface area. Thus you can maximize the heat transfer from given low pressure cfm.

Moses came from the mountaintop carrying a tablet. The Words were....WITH GREAT LUMENS COMES GREAT REPONSIBILITY.

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See, the thing is, Imalent doesn’t seem to put much R&D in their light designs.

I mean, if they really wanted to sustain very high lumen levels in such a large head, rather than making a bit heatsink with a lot of thermal mass, they should make a CPU type heatsink with tons of fins.

The light itself would get above ambient more quickly, but dissapate a large amount of heat, and under active cooling, could probably sustain 32000 lumens continuous output, or even 50000 lumens with a powerful fan.

My very own high current Beryllium Copper springs Gen 3:
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/67401
Liitokala Aliexpress Stores Battery Fraud: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/60547

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BlueSwordM wrote:
See, the thing is, Imalent doesn’t seem to put much R&D in their light designs.

I mean, if they really wanted to sustain very high lumen levels in such a large head, rather than making a bit heatsink with a lot of thermal mass, they should make a CPU type heatsink with tons of fins.

The light itself would get above ambient more quickly, but dissapate a large amount of heat, and under active cooling, could probably sustain 32000 lumens continuous output, or even 50000 lumens with a powerful fan.

I doubt that these companies pay as much attention to solving an obvious problem as they do to make it cheaper and sell more….more….more.

Let’s throw out 30,000 lumens for x seconds and ….look at me. 199.95 please.

Would you be surprised that I spent 10% of sales on machinery and RD? Most of the production machinery was in house…or repurposed technology.

90% were duds, 10% made a lot of money. And that is in an industry crippled by Chinese labor.

Moses came from the mountaintop carrying a tablet. The Words were....WITH GREAT LUMENS COMES GREAT REPONSIBILITY.

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I mean, I can easily differentiate lights that are very wall made and have quite a bit of R&D behind them.

The BLF Q8 has outstanding heatsinking for its size.

The MT07S has excellent heatsink and a very well made driver. It is super efficient on the 500 lumen mode.

The GT is an absolute beast.

Etc.

The problem is that R&D takes time. A lot of it. Which is why it’s expensive, and why BLF lights take such a long time to make.

Even simple changes are hard to do, especially with Chinese companies not usually willing to take many risks and innovate.

Two examples I’ve encountered:

1. LEDs not easily available to order in China. The LH351Ds are not easily available to order in China. So, lights that use them, and manufacturers try to steer away from them.
So, they have to order them outside of China, where prices are higher, you have to pay customs and taxes, and have no preferential treatment.

2. Springs. With my experience in conductive springs built up, I’ve actually had some companies consult me about ideas for higher conductivity springs*(not only Chinese ones for some reason… don’t know how other* companies found me…)

Well, recently, I’ve had a company ask what they could do to improve their springs for more power. I’ve told them to use:
- Double springs. No problem.
- Gold/silver plated springs. No problem.
- Phosphor bronze. No problem.

The issue comes when I try to use more advanced materials/techniques.
- Triple layer electroplating. Nickel-copper-silver. Less expensive than gold, but quite a bit higher performance. No dice. Says “takes too much time, complicated and not many companies do this”. But I know 2 that do. Nothing still.
- BeCu C17530 wire. They ask, why not BeCu C17500? Because it has way worse mechanical properties, and the offset in conductivity can be overcame with triple layer separate plating.
No dice.

My very own high current Beryllium Copper springs Gen 3:
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/67401
Liitokala Aliexpress Stores Battery Fraud: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/60547

LouieAtienza
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BlueSwordM wrote:
See, the thing is, Imalent doesn’t seem to put much R&D in their light designs.

I mean, if they really wanted to sustain very high lumen levels in such a large head, rather than making a bit heatsink with a lot of thermal mass, they should make a CPU type heatsink with tons of fins.

The light itself would get above ambient more quickly, but dissapate a large amount of heat, and under active cooling, could probably sustain 32000 lumens continuous output, or even 50000 lumens with a powerful fan.

Judging from their past efforts (and VoB’s teardown) I think not at all. They look like they got some CAD whiz making cool looking shapes that many folks will oooh and aaah over. It’s laughable, because the active cooling for a 100W COB is about three times the size of what’s in the Imalent, only the Imalent has a crappier fan. They could have just made the finned heatsink and head one solid casting, then extended all the fins out to the exterior. It still wouldn’t be enough, but it would be a lot better than what they have now.

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I hope Imalent listen and design a better active cooling.
And let user charge the battery easily without taking the light apart.

cool i'll see you when you get there

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Spartan wrote:
LouieAtienza wrote:
Spartan wrote:
That’s were I was heading with the BLF Sabre. Move the head off the battery tube and cool it with a fan.

I have another design that has an even better and more radical solution for cooling and it WILL work, but it remains in……my imagination.

When you separate the head from the body, you eliminate the body as a potential aid in cooling. To me, if you made the body slightly wider in diameter, and put a fan at the tail cap, you have the entire surface area of the body, not just the head. You also wouldn’t have to worry about routing wires though a small outer pillar.

I thought about that and is a potential solution BUT you need to force too much air and consequently a larger diameter to hold on to.

You already have 2” body to accommodate 4 cells, now you need to get to 3” to have an adequate space to carry air. But, that is still not enough to carry hundreds of cfm. Now you need to get into to 4” plus diameter. The only other solution to high cfm is more pressure, not really a solution.

There is another way…and it’s nothing like anything ever made. Start thinking about much more surface area and how to achieve that. Throw away everything you know and just try to see how to get massive amount of surface area. Thus you can maximize the heat transfer from given low pressure cfm.

You don’t need hundreds of CFM because the body has surface area too. Manufacturers could easily make an extrusion with internal fins, exponentially increasing surface area. They could also add through holes to allow heat pipes from the head. There’s no rules stating that one must hold a flashlight from its body; a separate, ergonomic handle would be great – you can make it adjustable, and you can hook the handle onto your belt or backpack strap. And with the ginormous head this thing has, an external handle could have a more forward design, which would make the light balance better on the hand, instead of being head-heavy. You can have the handle mount to a t-slot in the extrusion, which would make it adjustable, and able to mount the light to whatever you want. And thus, you don’t have to think of the body as having to be round.

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