Gas Prices Going Up

172 posts / 0 new
Last post
klrman
klrman's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 month 1 day ago
Joined: 11/07/2016 - 22:44
Posts: 2844
Location: Canada

Klotski wrote:
klrman wrote:

  I've known too many people that work their guts out only to barely survive after all the bills are paid and on top of that they are just plain worn out by the end of the day.

Isn't that the truth

 

Yep, and it just doesn't seem right.  I know the feeling first hand and was glad we made the move.  

panhead
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 2 months ago
Joined: 02/12/2017 - 02:47
Posts: 27
Location: Out There

  Wow and to think when I first posted about this it was just a note on seeing

  that gas may rise up above five bucks on the news.

  As for a lot of you that are in the EU and other places,  you have to remember

  just one or two counties in a state in the US can be the size of a small country.

  A lot of us have to drive to get the things needed that a lot people in small towns

  and large cities take for granted that they can just walk down the street to buy.

  

 

 

 

 

I am the bump in the night

xevious
xevious's picture
Offline
Last seen: 58 min 13 sec ago
Joined: 02/27/2013 - 21:55
Posts: 3526
Location: Hoboken, NJ USA

Looks like sanctions on Iran and Venezuela are contributing quite a bit to this recent price increase.
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/04/03/why-oil-and-gasoline-prices-are-rising-f...

kiriba-ru
kiriba-ru's picture
Offline
Last seen: 18 hours 54 min ago
Joined: 01/17/2016 - 02:34
Posts: 2152
Location: not Russia

Just one tiny question for all who wonders “how fast li-ions do degrate”:
Have you ever disassembled/rebuild any gasoline (diesel) powered engine?

Spartan
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 1 day ago
Joined: 01/12/2019 - 20:50
Posts: 635
kiriba-ru wrote:
Just one tiny question for all who wonders “how fast li-ions do degrate”: Have you ever disassembled/rebuild any gasoline (diesel) powered engine?

I have. What’s your point?

Moses came from the mountaintop carrying a tablet. The Words were....WITH GREAT LUMENS COMES GREAT REPONSIBILITY.

kiriba-ru
kiriba-ru's picture
Offline
Last seen: 18 hours 54 min ago
Joined: 01/17/2016 - 02:34
Posts: 2152
Location: not Russia

You should wonder how many parts there are, how uneven they degrate and how this influence on total lifetime (when one broken $5-part can ruin whole engine).

Spartan
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 1 day ago
Joined: 01/12/2019 - 20:50
Posts: 635
kiriba-ru wrote:
You should wonder how many parts there are, how uneven they degrate and how this influence on total lifetime (when one broken $5-part can ruin whole engine).

It’s a machine with hundreds of parts, some wear more then others. Some can go a million miles. Some will be replaced even though they could still go on. Some can be lightly re machined and go on.

I’m not sure where you are going with this.

Moses came from the mountaintop carrying a tablet. The Words were....WITH GREAT LUMENS COMES GREAT REPONSIBILITY.

kiriba-ru
kiriba-ru's picture
Offline
Last seen: 18 hours 54 min ago
Joined: 01/17/2016 - 02:34
Posts: 2152
Location: not Russia

Fuel engine (consist from thousands parts) have more probability to be broken at same mileage.
Fuel engine output is not easy to measure, same time on-board fuel consumption meters are not precise at all.
At the same mileage, fuel engine car will lost much more power and efficiency (in % to the new one) neither li-ion battery pack.
But fuel cars are not equipped with big touchscreen that shows you this information, so you dont care.

Spartan
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 1 day ago
Joined: 01/12/2019 - 20:50
Posts: 635

Comparing apples and oranges.

A good diesel engine will run for 1 too 1.5 MILLION kilometers. Routinely done by Benz taxis. They still have 80% of their power. Then they could be rebuilt for another million kilometers.

That’s 5000-7000-10,000 cycles for battery packs. Fantasy stuff.

Nissan guarantees the battery in the LEAF will have at least 66% of original capacity after 160,000 kilometers.

The highest mileage internet claims, but no actual proof, is for over 600,000km by a few Tesla owners. I tend to ignore internet claims by fan boys. On the other hand, I have ridden in lots of diesel taxis in Europe with far more actual mileage.

Moses came from the mountaintop carrying a tablet. The Words were....WITH GREAT LUMENS COMES GREAT REPONSIBILITY.

kiriba-ru
kiriba-ru's picture
Offline
Last seen: 18 hours 54 min ago
Joined: 01/17/2016 - 02:34
Posts: 2152
Location: not Russia

Spartan wrote:
Comparing apples and oranges.

A good diesel engine will run for 1 too 1.5 MILLION kilometers. Routinely done by Benz taxis. They still have 80% of their power. Then they could be rebuilt for another million kilometers.


Right, comparation between modern cars and cars that were developed 50 years ago is defently apples vs oranges.
Go to the MB website, choose any model, check engine code at wikipedia – and we can continue this discussion.
Spartan
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 1 day ago
Joined: 01/12/2019 - 20:50
Posts: 635

kiriba-ru wrote:
Spartan wrote:
Comparing apples and oranges.

A good diesel engine will run for 1 too 1.5 MILLION kilometers. Routinely done by Benz taxis. They still have 80% of their power. Then they could be rebuilt for another million kilometers.


Right, comparation between modern cars and cars that were developed 50 years ago is defently apples vs oranges.
Go to the MB website, choose any model, check engine code at wikipedia – and we can continue this discussion.

Engine code? Wiki? What are you talking about?

There is nothing to discuss if you can’t make a coherent argument.

Moses came from the mountaintop carrying a tablet. The Words were....WITH GREAT LUMENS COMES GREAT REPONSIBILITY.

kiriba-ru
kiriba-ru's picture
Offline
Last seen: 18 hours 54 min ago
Joined: 01/17/2016 - 02:34
Posts: 2152
Location: not Russia

When there is a big data, coherent arguments are not required.
When you can do few clicks and check out how many spare parts are were sold per each sold car. How many versions of compressors, HPP and injectors have been changed just in one engine generation. How many employers do this job and how many tons of broken parts are sent by each dealer service each month back to the manufacture.
Yes, I would like to know which engine can reach 1.5M km (not reachable for many trucks nowadays). Please choose it here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Mercedes-Benz_engines#Diesel_engines

Spartan
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 1 day ago
Joined: 01/12/2019 - 20:50
Posts: 635
kiriba-ru wrote:
When there is a big data, coherent arguments are not required. When you can do few clicks and check out how many spare parts are were sold per each sold car. How many versions of compressors, HPP and injectors have been changed just in one engine generation. How many employers do this job and how many tons of broken parts are sent by each dealer service each month back to the manufacture. Yes, I would like to know which engine can reach 1.5M km (not reachable for many trucks nowadays). Please choose it here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Mercedes-Benz_engines#Diesel_engines

You mean over a BILLION cars/trucks need engine parts? WOW. That’s something unheard off.

Obviously you don’t have a clue about engines other then nonsense.

Mileage? Just a few selling databases.

116 diesel cars with over half million kilometers. Including several over a million to 1.6 million km.

https://www.car.gr/classifieds/cars/?sort=mid&fs=1&mileage-from=>500000&...

3116 diesels over 320000 kilometers

https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/Diesel/Alden+NY-14004?searchRad...

600 trucks with over 1.5 million kilometers.

https://www.commercialtrucktrader.com/Trucks-For-Sale/search-results?sor...

I could search hundreds of other databases but I’ve wasted enough time with you.

Moses came from the mountaintop carrying a tablet. The Words were....WITH GREAT LUMENS COMES GREAT REPONSIBILITY.

pommie
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 5 months ago
Joined: 08/28/2013 - 03:56
Posts: 971
Location: Corio, Victoria, Australia
Spartan wrote:
kiriba-ru wrote:
When there is a big data, coherent arguments are not required. When you can do few clicks and check out how many spare parts are were sold per each sold car. How many versions of compressors, HPP and injectors have been changed just in one engine generation. How many employers do this job and how many tons of broken parts are sent by each dealer service each month back to the manufacture. Yes, I would like to know which engine can reach 1.5M km (not reachable for many trucks nowadays). Please choose it here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Mercedes-Benz_engines#Diesel_engines

You mean over a BILLION cars/trucks need engine parts? WOW. That’s something unheard off.

Obviously you don’t have a clue about engines other then nonsense.

Mileage? Just a few selling databases.

116 diesel cars with over half million kilometers. Including several over a million to 1.6 million km.

https://www.car.gr/classifieds/cars/?sort=mid&fs=1&mileage-from=>500000&...

3116 diesels over 320000 kilometers

https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/Diesel/Alden+NY-14004?searchRad...

600 trucks with over 1.5 million kilometers.

https://www.commercialtrucktrader.com/Trucks-For-Sale/search-results?sor...

I could search hundreds of other databases but I’ve wasted enough time with you.


Not one of those trucks that I looked at in your own links say anything about any possible engine/transmission replacements, so that fact alone negates your argument of internal combustion outlasting battery.

Cheers David

Nothing to see here folks, move along...

Spartan
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 1 day ago
Joined: 01/12/2019 - 20:50
Posts: 635

pommie wrote:

Not one of those trucks that I looked at in your own links say anything about any possible engine/transmission replacements, so that fact alone negates your argument of internal combustion outlasting battery.

Cheers David

What kind of stupid straw argument is that? If you don’t know what a straw argument is, look it up.

There is no such thing as ANY battery ANYWHERE in ANY vehicle lasting even a 1/3 of the high mileage cars and trucks. NONE . ZERO. Not even phony big fish stories and wild imaginations of online fan boys.

Meanwhile there are literally millions of cars/trucks with high mileages everywhere on the planet.

One more thing that is still a fantasy in the battery world…..Mercedes cars normal is a maintenance list for 241,000 km service. Routinely surpassed by either gas or diesel. I actually sold my ’95 in ’05 with 400k and he drove it 70k a year until it started to get serious rust.

Vast majority of cars are scrapped because of rust, accidents or people getting bored of them, rarely for worn out engines.

Moses came from the mountaintop carrying a tablet. The Words were....WITH GREAT LUMENS COMES GREAT REPONSIBILITY.

pommie
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 5 months ago
Joined: 08/28/2013 - 03:56
Posts: 971
Location: Corio, Victoria, Australia

The fact is that it was about the life of the batteries, not the cars, it was stated they would only last a short time, well just replace the batteries just as the internal combustion engine is replaced.

“rarely for worn out engines” that is because the engines are replaced.

It seems you are a bigger fan boy of polluting internal engines than I am of electric cars.

Nuff said, Im outa here.

Cheers David

Edit:- Jay Leno’s 1909 Baker Electric still operates on its original Edison cells, that’s 110years!!

Nothing to see here folks, move along...

BlueSwordM
BlueSwordM's picture
Offline
Last seen: 23 min 47 sec ago
Joined: 11/29/2017 - 12:34
Posts: 6612
Location: Canada

Yeah.

Electric engines crush internal combustion engines by far on power, torque, reliability, efficiency, and of course, durability.

My very own high current Beryllium Copper springs Gen 3:
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/67401
Liitokala Aliexpress Stores Battery Fraud: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/60547

kiriba-ru
kiriba-ru's picture
Offline
Last seen: 18 hours 54 min ago
Joined: 01/17/2016 - 02:34
Posts: 2152
Location: not Russia

Spartan wrote:

One more thing that is still a fantasy in the battery world…..Mercedes cars normal is a maintenance list for 241,000 km service. Routinely surpassed by either gas or diesel. I actually sold my ’95 in ’05 with 400k and he drove it 70k a year until it started to get serious rust.

Vast majority of cars are scrapped because of rust, accidents or people getting bored of them, rarely for worn out engines.


What are you talking about?
Nobody is interested in your experience with 25yo car with engine mechanics that was actually developed in 50-60th. You even wont be able to use this old dirty station in EU and many other countries.
Choose any modern euro-6 engine, and I will try to share some real statistics.
Again, you have no info about output of this 400-500k mileage engines. You just dont care.
Spartan
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 1 day ago
Joined: 01/12/2019 - 20:50
Posts: 635

pommie wrote:
The fact is that it was about the life of the batteries, not the cars, it was stated they would only last a short time, well just replace the batteries just as the internal combustion engine is replaced.

“rarely for worn out engines” that is because the engines are replaced.

It seems you are a bigger fan boy of polluting internal engines than I am of electric cars.

Nuff said, Im outa here.

Cheers David

Edit:- Jay Leno’s 1909 Baker Electric still operates on its original Edison cells, that’s 110years!!

kiriba-ru wrote:

Nobody is interested in your experience with 25yo car with engine mechanics that was actually developed in 50-60th. You even wont be able to use this old dirty station in EU and many other countries.
Choose any modern euro-6 engine, and I will try to share some real statistics.
Again, you have no info about output of this 400-500k mileage engines. You just don’t care care

More gibberish combined with a bit of “you don’t care” whining garbage topped with more straw arguments.

This has nothing to do with the electric motor then with the life expectancy of batteries.

At this point, they are inferior in life expectancy to any normal car. They may get better, or perhaps not. We’ll see.

Moses came from the mountaintop carrying a tablet. The Words were....WITH GREAT LUMENS COMES GREAT REPONSIBILITY.

pommie
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 5 months ago
Joined: 08/28/2013 - 03:56
Posts: 971
Location: Corio, Victoria, Australia

“At this point, they are inferior in life expectancy to any normal car.”

“Jay Leno’s 1909 Baker Electric still operates on its original Edison cells, that’s 110years!!”

How much more life expectancy do you require??

No strike that question because I know you will just put some bait answer in.

Nothing to see here folks, move along...

Lightbringer
Lightbringer's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 hours 16 min ago
Joined: 08/30/2016 - 14:12
Posts: 18048
Location: nyc

Bored now…

09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0

Relampago
Relampago's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 2 months ago
Joined: 04/14/2019 - 11:44
Posts: 549

Toemato Tohmahto. The cheapest I got this year was $1.77/Gal. Thought I had time traveled. I honestly couldn’t care less because I drive like a maniac and my mpg’s are due to suffer.

“Electricity is really just organized lightning”
― George Carlin

Spartan
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 1 day ago
Joined: 01/12/2019 - 20:50
Posts: 635
Lightbringer wrote:
Bored now…

Me too.

Moses came from the mountaintop carrying a tablet. The Words were....WITH GREAT LUMENS COMES GREAT REPONSIBILITY.

Deputy Dog
Deputy Dog's picture
Offline
Last seen: 11 months 2 weeks ago
Joined: 09/15/2017 - 07:53
Posts: 434
Location: behind you

I think Spartan is on the money.

A friend of mine has 3 trucks with over 2 million miles each and they are all running as of today. I don’t think you will get that out of a set of batteries.

BlueSwordM wrote:
Yeah.

Electric engines crush internal combustion engines by far on power, torque, reliability, efficiency, and of course, durability.

I’m not sure that is completely true yet, when you consider power to weight. You also need to consider battery weight with the weight of the motor.

Also, most of the world doesn’t have access to (fish killing Wink ) hydro electricity like Quebec, and uses coal fired generators to produce electricity to charge batteries. So how much does that really help anything.

panhead
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 2 months ago
Joined: 02/12/2017 - 02:47
Posts: 27
Location: Out There

Engine life, I rebuilt a Ford 300 (4.9) 6 cylinder for a 1980 F100 that lasted 22.5 years before it developed a rod knock and the 2nd auto trans lost 3rd gear.   Found a 86 F150 with a four speed manual on the floor to replace it.  This truck has same engine (4.9) but has a rod knock so I baby it till I can pull and replace with another I rebuilt for my work van.  Been knocking on start up till oil pressure builds up, has been for the last seven years but gets almost 18 MPG, not bad for a 33 year old motor with 240K on the clock.   I change oil often, it is the life of the motor.   So for me, electric vehicles, nah, I don't think they will last as long.

I am the bump in the night

caramba
caramba's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 months 3 weeks ago
Joined: 11/09/2016 - 14:43
Posts: 639

Anything good about the Audi Etron SUV? I don’t think it is available to buy yet but I saw something about a pre-order option.

Quote:

From 0 to 100 km/h (62.1 mph) in 5.7 seconds, a range of over 400 kilometers (248.5 mi) in the WLTP driving cycle, zero local emissions – the full-size SUV is powerful, efficient, sporty and practical for everyday driving. Its two electric motors produce up to 300 kW and combine with the electric all-wheel drive to deliver optimum performance on any terrain.

Combined electric power consumption in kWh/100 km (62.1 mi): 26.2 – 22.6 (WLTP); 24.6 – 23.7 (NEFZ), CO2 emissions combined in g/km (g/mi): 0; Figures depending on the chosen equipment level.

Empowered by a 95kWh battery, the e-tron® is adapted for AC and DC charging alike. Charge up overnight from the comfort of your home or use one of the thousands of quick-charging stations for a swift juice up to achieve about 160 miles of range.

maximum tow capacity of up to 4,000 pounds.

kiriba-ru
kiriba-ru's picture
Offline
Last seen: 18 hours 54 min ago
Joined: 01/17/2016 - 02:34
Posts: 2152
Location: not Russia

panhead wrote:

;So for me, electric vehicles, nah, I don’t think they will last as long.


Are you able to get new modern and safe car with such motor?
How long youll be able to use your small car until you will catch people from some green political party that have organized miting right in the clouds from gas and oil that have not burned?
I wonder how conservative you are. Your experience is great for people from 50s. But if someone little younger searching car nowadays, he is not able to repeat your experience. They would like something smaller, faster and more safety, than track with tracktor engine. And 99% of cars that meet this conditions have aluminium engine block which can last 150-200k kms.

And this is common at least for last 20 years. I didnt want to leave this comment, but to prevent someone young who will read this thread and was ready to get new MB (and hoping it will last long) – no, they could last long when your grandfather was young.
Relampago
Relampago's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 2 months ago
Joined: 04/14/2019 - 11:44
Posts: 549

I like my cars to go vroom. It scares the plebs.

“Electricity is really just organized lightning”
― George Carlin

CheapThrills
CheapThrills's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 weeks 3 days ago
Joined: 07/02/2011 - 10:45
Posts: 3675
Location: Suomi

Hows it going back there?

Filling up here in FIN at about 7,82USD/U.S.Gal or 1,83EUR/L Cash

CheapThrills
CheapThrills's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 weeks 3 days ago
Joined: 07/02/2011 - 10:45
Posts: 3675
Location: Suomi
Spartan wrote:
Hybrids “win” by recapture, not by converting diesel or gas at any higher efficiency. In fact, there are generating losses. When a Prius runs out of electricity, it goes about 45 mpg.

Digging up olds but a few notes on this:
- By default, ICE on a hybrid has same efficiency, as same ICE on a normal car so I agree.
- OTOH, on some hybrids (Or the most, Toyota), they use Atkinsons cycle ICE engines, which have a bit higher efficiency.
They are typically not used in normal cars, at least I don´t personally know a single one that uses. I have HEARD that some London cabs use it but I´m not at all sure.
- One thing that has been also tweaked for lower consumption, is the inf.variable transmission. ICE engine is kept as much as possible on the most efficient RPM range.
Losses on that kind of transmission are actually small. For reference, check WeberAuto on YT. I was surprised a bit about how small amount of parts go in there after all Shocked
- The other trick made available by electric-everything is, that when you lift gaspedal and COAST (not regenerating), in lower speeds, engine is off. That saves also SOME fuel, depending on where you drive.
(Normal ICE start/stop for traffic lights and such is pretty much in most vehicles today).
- 45mpg I agree on but on my car (old 2010 prius), it means I have to overspeed year round… I hate doing it because penalties here are, hrmmm, “high”. It kind of eats away the benefit of trying to save on gas if I take tickets Sad After 2 years, 45mpg is +- the max that I have gotten out from it. I drive 80% or more highway but speed limits are here 50-62mph. Highest consumption is achieved in winter. Typically at around -4°F or colder.

Pages