Tint ramping version Noctigon K9.3 is available

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Rayoui
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In order to reach 555 lumens the 219b would have to be driven at ~2.3A. For 18 emitters that’s >40A. That’s a lot, particularly for three 18650 cells and when you factor in other losses in the circuit.

Furthermore, some tests show the D18 with SST-20 maxing out at around 7500 lumens.

Just because a manufacturer advertises specific lumen amount doesn’t always mean the light can actually reach it. I think it’s unrealistic to expect 10000 lumens from a D18 with 219b but I could be wrong.

ArtieT59
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So! I have pretty good news, not great news but pretty damn good-

 

I Just received a dt8 with xpl-hi 5D, my first 5D in a couple months because of the whole yellow thing. Well, this 5D is not AS ROSY as the 6-8 months ago 5D, but it is WAY LESS yellow than the last couple months of 5D (from what I know, because like I said it's been 2-3 months). I'd say it's in between the yellow recent 5d and the more rosy one, but if I'm being honest it is CLOSER to the ROSY one. 

I know there are at least a couple people who I've chatted with that will be interested in this info. Tomorrow morning I am going to make my best attempt at phoning this, but just know they are getting much better. They're not as good as they were, but right now they are a lot better than they have been. 

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@Lojik
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Rayoui wrote:
In order to reach 555 lumens the 219b would have to be driven at ~2.3A. For 18 emitters that’s >40A. That’s a lot, particularly for three 18650 cells and when you factor in other losses in the circuit.

Furthermore, some tests show the D18 with SST-20 maxing out at around 7500 lumens.

Just because a manufacturer advertises specific lumen amount doesn’t always mean the light can actually reach it. I think it’s unrealistic to expect 10000 lumens from a D18 with 219b but I could be wrong.

I’m certainly not asserting that I know. Hank told me what he expects it to put out, and here others are saying it may not be accurate. So I’m just comparing it to the many 219B lights we have examples of. I have many of those 219B lights so I will certainly be able to gauge the output differences.

I know claims are not to be trusted, but does Hank usually overestimate his lights or was that just one persons setup that tested at 7500 Lumen. I would say 7500 Lumen on a D18 is kinda of underperforming, I would expect it to do quite better than that. The E12R is not far from that at all. But you mentioning it would take 40 amps does put things into a bit more perspective. Either way, I can’t wait to finally get something the size of the D18 with 219B’s in it.

Sunnysunsun
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Lojik][quote=contactcr][quote=Lojik wrote:
lazerEagle wrote:
8500 is more realistic.

EO7x Pro – 7 emitters – 3600 Lumen = 515 Lumen per LED

E12R – 12 Emitters – 6800 Lumen = 567 Lumen per LED

There is something wrong with this math here. As far as I know, both lights use the same driver and have essentially the same parts other than the number of LEDs.

When the same number of batteries powers more LEDs, those LEDs will individually be dimmer.

Sunnysunsun
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Lumens figures are misleading. The 10K lumens is probably with the 5000K or 6500K emitters. According to SKV89’s test, the E12R with 219Bs only put out 4300 lumens.

@Lojik
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Sunnysunsun wrote:
Lumens figures are misleading. The 10K lumens is probably with the 5000K or 6500K emitters. According to SKV89’s test, the E12R with 219Bs only put out 4300 lumens.

Yeah I saw that and don’t believe it for a second, It’s my brightest 219B light so if he got that figure, there was an issue with his testing or his light, Vihn produces some weird ass test numbers sometimes too as do others. Luckily I have many lights to compare and I’m not worried about one test when I can just do a comparable eye test and see if it’s lacking compared to other high-powered lights. Fireflies also specs lights out with 40T’s so it’s not like they’re milking every last Lumen.

The Nov-mu claims 5500 Lumen yet it’s been tested at 7000+ at power-on. I have progressively higher and higher 219B lights and the E12R is as expected atop them all. If that’s how many Lumen the E12R makes, than every other manufacturer of my lights are straight liars.

Vihn just tested the Thor II at like roughly 400-500 meters less throw than what everyone else is getting, does that mean that’s what all Thor II’s actually throw? Obviously not. One thing we can count on, is everybody will be getting different numbers so it’s pretty irrelevant. I will look at and trust side-by-side comparisons as that’s where a light will pass people’s tests or not.

Edit: One more thing, D18 in 5000k-6500k is rated closer to 14,000 Lumen like the Astrolx MF01S and the Mateminco versión. (Except those are rated at 15,000 Lumen in the 5000k-6500k versions)

Sunnysunsun
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Let’s do some math to determine the most optimistic, best case scenario numbers.

I’ve heard the D4V2 pulls 18 amps with 4000k sst-20s from a high drain cell (30Q or VTC6). I can’t find a source but we’ll just use this for my estimates.

This means the LEDs are getting 4.5A each, and have a forward voltage of about 3.5V

According to Lygte’s tests, a 30Q/VTC6 drops to about 3.7v somewhere at around 18A drain. This means a flashlight’s circuit including the springs, mosfet, and traces will optimistically drop about 0.2V at higher currents.

Since the D18 has one spring per cell but other parts of the circuit have resistance, I’ll say very optimistically that the D18’s voltage drop from the batteries to the LEDs at 60A is 0.3V. This is probably a very optimistic figure and the real value should be higher.

Right after start up at a 20A drain, a 30Q/VTC6 drops down to ~3.65v. (Right at start up, <0.1Ah drained).

3.65-0.3=3.3V

At 3.3V, the 4000K SST-20 consumes 3A and produces 720 lumens. 6 of them (6 per 18650 in the D18) consume 18 amps of power (should be close enough to the 20A assumption).

720×18= ~ 13 thousand LED lumens. This is before light is lost as it passes through the optics and the lens.

So conceivable, for about a second or two after start up the 4000K D18 might produce 10 000 lumens, but LEDs lose their output as their temperature increase so that output will plummet after just a few seconds.

This is a very optimistic figure, and done to the best of my knowledge. Now if someone has a clamp meter and would be willing to measure a D18 at turbo, we’ll have a more accurate figure.

@Lojik
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Sunnysunsun wrote:
Let’s do some math to determine the most optimistic, best case scenario numbers.

I’ve heard the D4V2 pulls 18 amps with 4000k sst-20s from a high drain cell (30Q or VTC6). I can’t find a source but we’ll just use this for my estimates.

This means the LEDs are getting 4.5A each, and have a forward voltage of about 3.5V

According to Lygte’s tests, a 30Q/VTC6 drops to about 3.7v somewhere at around 18A drain. This means a flashlight’s circuit including the springs, mosfet, and traces will optimistically drop about 0.2V at higher currents.

Since the D18 has one spring per cell but other parts of the circuit have resistance, I’ll say very optimistically that the D18’s voltage drop from the batteries to the LEDs at 60A is 0.3V. This is probably a very optimistic figure and the real value should be higher.

Right after start up at a 20A drain, a 30Q/VTC6 drops down to ~3.65v. (Right at start up, <0.1Ah drained).

3.65-0.3=3.3V

At 3.3V, the 4000K SST-20 consumes 3A and produces 720 lumens. 6 of them (6 per 18650 in the D18) consume 18 amps of power (should be close enough to the 20A assumption).

720×18= ~ 13 thousand LED lumens. This is before light is lost as it passes through the optics and the lens.

So conceivable, for about a second or two after start up the 4000K D18 might produce 10 000 lumens, but LEDs lose their output as their temperature increase so that output will plummet after just a few seconds.

This is a very optimistic figure, and done to the best of my knowledge. Now if someone has a clamp meter and would be willing to measure a D18 at turbo, we’ll have a more accurate figure.

This is the kinda breakdown I was hoping someone could give. I know even things like spring amp ratings have to be accounted for (Thanks Texas Ace’s WildTrail WT90 group buy thread). So I know there are real limitations and I was wondering how they broke down in a D18 with it’s internals and these emitters. So thank you for the “best of your ability” break-down kind sir.

So going with higher amp/lower capacity 18650’s could hold it technically a smidge longer? But at this level with this many emitters, it would likely take 4 cells to see any gains. Now I get why MF01S can do a bit more Lumen with the same amount of emitters as the D18.

Sari33
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Can we do a petition for a KR4 with adjustable variable tint like E21A 2000+5000k?

stephenk
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Sari33 wrote:
Can we do a petition for a KR4 with adjustable variable tint like E21A 2000+5000k?

Or just buy one with 2000k and one with 5000k?
ArtieT59
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Difference in recent xpl-hi 5d to the "3-4 months ago" 5D. From left to right: 2 D4v2's with 5D from March-april. The dark gray dt8 is yesterday's 5D (ordered 3 weeks ago, received yesterday), and the right is the 2850k 8A. 

It almost looks like Yesterdays 5D is 5000 K. I'm actually gonna double check the box when I get home.

 

EDIT:  it is definitely 4000k, and it's awesome. It only looks cooler compared to these leds, when compared to xpl 5K the warmth is noticeable.

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Optiblue
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Ordered a d4v2 Ti with 219bt-v1 4500K. Hank also carries the 10621 optics now too on his new products page. Hopefully it’ll jive well or I’ll just order another one with the w2’s and use it for that!

Don't keep blue bin emitters alive during the golden age of neutral white!

stephenk
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Might be a silly question, but which version of Anduril 2 is used in the DT8? I can’t see a DT8 specific version?

Sari33
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stephenk wrote:
Sari33 wrote:
Can we do a petition for a KR4 with adjustable variable tint like E21A 2000+5000k?

Or just buy one with 2000k and one with 5000k?

No, I wanted have both colors in one light and adjust the color temperature at my choice
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My D4SV2 with the SW35 is sitting in a distribution centre right near my place and it’s killing me. I’ve got a battery ready to go and I keen to see what these emitters will do in the D4Sv2 body!

D4V2 x 2 - XP-L HI V2 5D 4000K
D4SV2 x 2 - SW35 / W2
D18 - 2700K/4000K outer and W2 inner
Astrolux WP3 LEP

Hank Wang
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With freshly charged 30Q 18650 cells, D18 219B vesion turbo current is 48A at turn on, that is 2.67A per LED,
which I think it’s still within safety line?

In that case, D18 219B version should be with direct drive, no current limit.

https://intl-outdoor.com, Noctigon, Emisar, flashlight components.

Lux-Perpetua
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Hank Wang wrote:
With freshly charged 30Q 18650 cells, D18 219B vesion turbo current is 48A at turn on, that is 2.67A per LED, which I think it's still within safety line? In that case, D18 219B version should be with direct drive, no current limit.

Sounds promising. Smile Do you have some Samsung 25S or 20S to test with again? These are supposed to be the most powerful 18650 cells available. If D18 219B works with them properly, there should be no way of killing these LEDs. Big Smile

How many 219B SW30 and SW45K do you have left?

 

Oh and by the way, Hank did you have any chance to take a look at my previous post?

https://budgetlightforum.com/comment/1783464#comment-1783464

What do you think? Smile

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Default original optic back in stock for D18. Also can now select Nichia 219BT-V1 3500K and 4500K emitters. Order placed.
Hoping for tint below BBL with nice light pink hue, Thanks to Hank Wang for all your efforts. You are the best!

stephenk
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Haven’t had a shipping notification for a DT8 with SST-20 5000k after 10 days. Is that normal?

starryalley
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I ordered on 13/7 and got shipping notification only on 23/7. I assume he must be very busy with the 219b orders. (and I contributed 2)

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Hank is in overwork
Please be patient

Flashlight addicted

stephenk
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Light Veteran wrote:
Hank is in overwork
Please be patient

Good to know. I’ll keep waiting patiently!
daffyh67
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I love the DT8 in 219BT-V1 4500K emitters it’s so ‘dinky’ much better than the D4V2 which i never really took a liking to.

stephenk
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daffyh67 wrote:
I love the DT8 in 219BT-V1 4500K emitters it’s so ‘dinky’ much better than the D4V2 which i never really took a liking to.

What would be estimate the maximum and highest sustained lumens are for the 219BT in the DT8?
ArtieT59
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stephenk wrote:
Light Veteran wrote:
Hank is in overwork Please be patient
Good to know. I'll keep waiting patiently!

it is not "out of line" to send him an email (reply to your order confirmation) asking for update. After 10 days I would send one to check in. That's not unreasonable. I've done it once or twice before .

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stephenk
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ArtieT59 wrote:

stephenk wrote:
Light Veteran wrote:
Hank is in overwork Please be patient
Good to know. I’ll keep waiting patiently!

it is not “out of line” to send him an email (reply to your order confirmation) asking for update. After 10 days I would send one to check in. That’s not unreasonable. I’ve done it once or twice before .


Just got the shipping notification now – 11 days after order. Hank must be a busy man!
Hank Wang
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We have one D4V2 in Australia, 219B 4500K LED, with flat retaining ring, extra flood optic, 18350 tube, and magnetic tailcap, original price is $60.17, now, 30% off, which is $42, shipping included, for Australian customers only, PM me if you are interested. ———Sold

https://intl-outdoor.com, Noctigon, Emisar, flashlight components.

ArtieT59
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Nice deal!

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Bardo219
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D4v2 219b 4500k arrived today, I love the Cyan color and raised switch.

I recommend getting the 219b while it’s available.

@Lojik
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VonNadir wrote:
@Lojik wrote:
VonNadir wrote:
I came out of lurking mode to ask if anyone knows how limited this is? I already have four D4V2s from Hank: Black XPL 6500K, Grey XPL 5000K. Cyan e21A 4500K, and a Sand e21A in 3500K. I’m not normally a fan of rosy tints and definitely don’t want to get anything too redundant but my FOMO alarm is going crazy. I don’t even know what light I’d want this in but am leaning towards the 219b in 4500K in something.

Here is the thing about these LED’s. If I just ask you if you want a pink/rosy light, chances are you wouldn’t have any particular reason to say yes. But this is one of those things where you don’t know you want/need something simply because you don’t know it exists or how it benefits you.

The thing about this tint is that it’s like a final edit on pictures or a movie. When you see a magazine photo, it looks perfect. You don’t know how it got to look like that, you just know it looks great. Well this is the case with the Nichia 219B in SW45K.

If you were to bounce the rosy 219B light off a white wall and compare it to some of your other favorites, you still may not see “the big deal”. White walls ins’t where colors are gonna shine obviously. It’s in the colorful area’s of your life where you’ll best enjoy this light. Don’t compare it to the lights on a white wall, compare it in a garden, or on a beautiful painting. That’s when you’ll see how amazing the “rosy” tint is. Reds are a super important spectrum of color. Even just something simple like human skin becomes vibrant with 219b, then instantly dull with other LED’s. It’s something you just end up adoring after experiencing it fully like I told you, in real life. It’s in real-life conditions that other LED’s suffer or fare way worse. Others just don’t cut it when you compare them this way. In a nutshell, Nichia 219B light is like the perfect color edit to real life. Thats not something you can just claim about any LED. And keep in mind, it’s not just any ol’ rosy tint either. It’s ultra high, right side of the BBL High CRI rosy tint. Nichia 219B’s are like if LED’s were introduced to a brand new color and all of a sudden everyone wondered how the hell we ever got by without it.

So yeah, maybe give the LED a shot. Nothing you have now compares to it, so your FOMO would ultimately be appropriate. There are few that saw they don’t like the “rosy”. OK, I don’t know how much of a chance they gave it so I can say for sure why that is. All I know is if you like your movies and images to have proper editing and LITERALLY proper lighting (that makes colors pop), you may end up liking that effect on all life around you too, just saying.

Best of luck and Happy Flashlight hunting

Thank you, I hadn’t considered it from such a point of view so you may have sold me! What do you think from Hank will get the best out of this emitter? Another D4V2? I don’t really need anything so it will just be a showpiece and occasional edc. Maybe I will take the leap with the 4500K if it’s the one to get and would be like owning a piece of flashlight history lol.

My sincerest apologies, I must have missed your post the first time around. I know I’m super late but I figured I’d at least answer your question in case you’re still wondering.

If you want excellent output, I imagine the K9.3 shoud be pretty good, maybe even the DT8. If you want super output, the D18 would be King. If you want sumtin pretty and mega output isn’t a major factor, def go Copper D4V2 all the way, or I guess the Raw Ore. Again, my apologies for such a late response.

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