Noctigon DM11 high CRI middle range thrower available

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JaredM
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thefreeman wrote:
Similar observation with the Olga RS (clear TIR) and B35A, if the optic is sitting higher than the MCPCB (like on an aux board) the spot has a darker yellow spot in the middle, if it sits directly on the MCPCB the darker spot is gone.

Have you tested a Z height of zero vs LES? Is there a dark or yellow spot there?

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id30209
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Told ya!

I first notice this phenomenon when i got E17 first time and i had to lower reflector to get proper focus. Ever since all of them E17/21/B35 requires some TIR/reflector tuning.

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thefreeman
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JaredM wrote:
thefreeman wrote:
Similar observation with the Olga RS (clear TIR) and B35A, if the optic is sitting higher than the MCPCB (like on an aux board) the spot has a darker yellow spot in the middle, if it sits directly on the MCPCB the darker spot is gone.

Have you tested a Z height of zero vs LES? Is there a dark or yellow spot there?

Just tested 0.75mm (relative to the mcpcb), according to the datasheet the led is 0.73mm high, and the solder layer appear as thin as possible, the darker yellow spot is still visible.
Previously I tested 0.9mm : darker spot visible, and 0 at which the darker spot is gone, the beam looks somewhat more ”ringy”.
0.30mm : still a darker spot.

This is without candela measurements, not sure which way improve or degrade throw.

Souldrop
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Is the b35am suitable for any of hanks other lights? Seems like it would be neat in a d18 or d4s

ArtieT59
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seeing those beam profiles confirms I am definitely ordering the XHP 35 hi first. The temptation is still there to try the b35am because it is new to me and very interesting, but I have been mildly obsessed with xhp35 HI 3000k recently and have about 10 lights now with it. I have to see how the dm11 compares!

Has anyone else been checking Intl-outdoor.com 2-3 times a day, For the last couple of days? 

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ArtieT59
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JaredM wrote:
 ... We would never think to not tune the height of a reflector, but we seem to all just forget the concept when it comes to TIRs. It's easy, especially with flat emitters, once you've dialed in one.. keep the relative height the same vs the top of the LED.

 

this is so true, I adjust the reflector height and centering ring in almost every thrower I have or I get, and definitely in every single one I change the LED in. I can honestly say I've never adjusted the height of a TIR..

 

EDIT: now I'm thinking more about it, wish I would've tried that on some of my kr4 & D4 with Osram Before either swapping the emitters or getting rid of them. Wonder if some of the rings in those beams could've been eliminated?? Dammit! Lol. Now I know what I need to do. 

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Check out some of my new lights (picture heavy) and quick first impressions of them here: https://budgetlightforum.com/node/77180

My Sft40 beamshots / comparison thread: https://budgetlightforum.com/node/78100

The BLF GT with SFT40 (2300lm, 2700m+ @ 30 seconds!)
https://budgetlightforum.com/node/79561

zak.wilson
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The B35A is a 6 volt emitter. Only the K1 offers a suitable driver, though it’s configured for 12V.

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Souldrop
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zak.wilson wrote:
The B35A is a 6 volt emitter. Only the K1 offers a suitable driver, though it’s configured for 12V.
Thanks for answering!
Hank Wang
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JaredM wrote:
id30209 wrote:

Hank Wang wrote:
The B35AM beam is actually very even and smooth. The reason why we choose the medium optic for B35 is because the beam with narrow optic is with a black spot in the center, which does not look good.
 

 


I had the same issue with one of my builds. It turned out the emitter was sitting too low. 


After I sanded optic legs it turned out perfect. 


All emitters you offer are a bit taller than B35 thus not causing imperfect focus. If you adjust TIR properly you could have even better throw results.


Anyhow I’ll order mine with a clear optic if that’s ok with you, adjusting it later on.

You nailed it. I would recommend counter boring the optic leg holes on the b35am mcpcb to lower the optic. The emission surface height difference between the sft40 and b35am is greater than 0.5mm I bet (don’t have the datasheets pulled up right now). We would never think to not tune the height of a reflector, but we seem to all just forget the concept when it comes to TIRs.
It’s easy, especially with flat emitters, once you’ve dialed in one.. keep the relative height the same vs the top of the LED.


After tuning it a bit, I managed to use the small angle optic for the B35AM LED, the dark spot in the beam is elimiated, the beam is clean now. The candela has jumped from 25kcd to 48kcd, now the B35AM version can also be called a small thrower.

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Wow thank you Hank! and to everyone who chipped in!

A great result!

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Hank,

Great to hear about the improved throw from B35AM after tuning! Do you happen to have an updated release estimate for DM11? I’m waiting to place a big order until after it’s available.

Also, can you tell me what the maximum regulated current is for Noctigon K1 with SBT90.2? Is it 5A or 7.5A like some of your other Linear+FET drivers? I’m working on a review and would love to include this detail.

Thank you for all the great work you do!

LuxWad
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Hank Wang wrote:
After tuning it a bit, I managed to use the small angle optic for the B35AM LED, the dark spot in the beam is elimiated, the beam is clean now. The candela has jumped from 25kcd to 48kcd, now the B35AM version can also be called a small thrower.

Very nice, this is a really awesome development! Is there any chance you will still provide the option for the wide-angle optic for this or any other emitter? I know this is supposed to be a thrower, but that floody profile with the other optic was pretty nice in my opinion, it would be fun to try them both out

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Hank Wang wrote:
After tuning it a bit, I managed to use the small angle optic for the B35AM LED, the dark spot in the beam is elimiated, the beam is clean now. The candela has jumped from 25kcd to 48kcd, now the B35AM version can also be called a small thrower. !https://www.noctigon.com/image/catalog/DM11/20211121114036.png!

High CRI, rosy, reportedly efficient TIR thrower? Can’t wait

JaredM
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This is an awesome development! Thanks Hank! 48kcd is super impressive for this emitter Shocked

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Excellent, Hank! I’m really looking forward to the DM11!

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B35AM with tuning looks great! Brb burying my wallet.

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id30209
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You are welcome.

 

Told ya…

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LuxWad wrote:
Very nice, this is a really awesome development! Is there any chance you will still provide the option for the wide-angle optic for this or any other emitter? I know this is supposed to be a thrower, but that floody profile with the other optic was pretty nice in my opinion, it would be fun to try them both out
 

 

I'm thinking of adding DC-Fix film if it's going to be needed but yes, flood optic might be a good idea to add as an option.

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Hi Hank, are you able to get some of the Chinese-made flat emitters? I think the SFS80 is also a great option and I like it more than the SFT40.

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fogofwar wrote:
Hi Hank, are you able to get some of the Chinese-made flat emitters? I think the SFS80 is also a great option and I like it more than the SFT40.

 

I have the sfs80 in a Light and I'm not convinced it is as good as a sft40. Or that it's available in other CCT's either? No upside for sfs80 if considering both, IMO. 

 

EDIT: ive also read here IIRC that SFS80 has a hard time going over 6amps, maybe? I heard there is a failure rate somewhere in that range. Or i could be thinking of the KD P35, though those could be the same LED too.. I don't know.

 

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Check out some of my new lights (picture heavy) and quick first impressions of them here: https://budgetlightforum.com/node/77180

My Sft40 beamshots / comparison thread: https://budgetlightforum.com/node/78100

The BLF GT with SFT40 (2300lm, 2700m+ @ 30 seconds!)
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zak.wilson
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I’m even more excited for this with the optic tuning, though I think I’ll still get both optics if the wider one is offered. It’s good to have options.

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So happy to see the B35AM is now functional in the throwy optic! Thank you!

Any chance you will release the DT8 with tint ramping with e21a LEDs?

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I'm liking the results of the YINDING 5050 5000K round die so far: https://budgetlightforum.com/comment/1820784#comment-1820784

De-lensed it's doing better in throw, and better in lumens. De-lens, it seems to be doing as good as a Boost HX (W2) but cheaper, and using a standard 5050 footprint.

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So I checked the Nichia datasheet. B35AM is 0.73mm tall. The CREE XPP is 0.75mm, NM1 and PM1 measured 0.80mm, SFT40 was 1.10mm. The round 5050 yinding came in at 0.68mm. Haven’t measured the Cree HIs but datasheet says 1.0mm.

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fogofwar
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ArtieT59 wrote:

fogofwar wrote:
Hi Hank, are you able to get some of the Chinese-made flat emitters? I think the SFS80 is also a great option and I like it more than the SFT40.

 


I have the sfs80 in a Light and I’m not convinced it is as good as a sft40. Or that it’s available in other CCT’s either? No upside for sfs80 if considering both, IMO


 


EDIT: ive also read here IIRC that SFS80 has a hard time going over 6amps, maybe? I heard there is a failure rate somewhere in that range. Or i could be thinking of the KD P35, though those could be the same LED too.. I don’t know.


 

Is your SFS80 in a Nightwatch, Mateminco, or something else?

I have a Mateminco MT35 Mini-S with SFS80 that pulls 7.2A and does 115kcd from a 43mm head (a bit smaller than a C8) and 2100 lumens from my measurements. The beam is immaculate. It also has a lower color temperature and a slightly rosy tint.

On the other hand, I have four SFT40s in one light and three of them developed black spots. The total lumen output from all four is only 7600.

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Slim Pickens wrote:
Any word on whether E21A will be an option for tint ramping? I’d love to do a 3500k / 2000k…

The E21A tint ramping version is up,
https://intl-outdoor.com/tint-ramping-instant-channel-swiching-led-flash...

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fogofwar wrote:
ArtieT59 wrote:

fogofwar wrote:
Hi Hank, are you able to get some of the Chinese-made flat emitters? I think the SFS80 is also a great option and I like it more than the SFT40.

 

I have the sfs80 in a Light and I'm not convinced it is as good as a sft40. Or that it's available in other CCT's either? No upside for sfs80 if considering both, IMO. 

 

EDIT: ive also read here IIRC that SFS80 has a hard time going over 6amps, maybe? I heard there is a failure rate somewhere in that range. Or i could be thinking of the KD P35, though those could be the same LED too.. I don't know.

 

Is your SFS80 in a Nightwatch, Mateminco, or something else? I have a Mateminco MT35 Mini-S with SFS80 that pulls 7.2A and does 115kcd from a 43mm head (a bit smaller than a C8) and 2100 lumens from my measurements. The beam is immaculate. It also has a lower color temperature and a slightly rosy tint. On the other hand, I have four SFT40s in one light and three of them developed black spots. The total lumen output from all four is only 7600.

 

I have sfs80 in mt35 mini also. The beam is cool white, mine is not at all rosy, mostly very cool but somewhat "neutral", meaning not green. The beam also was horribly centered from the stock light, I had to recenter using a new centering ring which made it better but not perfect. I haven't measure throw yet but I'd be surprised if it was getting over 100kcd... it seems like another LED that is very sensitive to reflector height, like sft40. That stock Mateminco centering ring in mine is trash.

 

 lumens seem higher than the sft40 though, just from a visual inspection- there is more spill to the sfs80 beam. That is a positive. I don't Ike the color anymore or less than the sft40. But that is all opinion of course. I have some sft40 that seem greener than others. 

I don't doubt that 4 sft40 is only putting out 7600 lumens (1900lm each led) in a multi emitter setup, according to Djozz's testing that would mean that your light  would need to be getting over 5.5amps to each of the emitters, over 22amps total. There are too many factors at play to effectively compare one led being better than another based on how one performs in a single emitter light vs the other in a multi emitter light. According to djozzs bench test the sft40 would be pulling 2300lm at 7.5a if in our mt35 mini's. But your 4x emitter light would need to be pulling 30amps+ for that to happen.. not a small feat. 

Anyway, their performances are close at best. But the beam of the sft40 I have found to be better for throwing (tighter beam, more pronounced hotspot, generally speaking). But I do not have enough sample of sfs80 to completely verify that. I have 7 lights with sft40 and 1 light with sfs80. 

Edit- the black spot occurrence - I've had it happen twice out of installing around a dozen sft40 in about 15 lights. I have seen others with it too. It is terribly disappointing. Someone I had given a sft40 to had black spots when they received it, which means I was the culprit. We both agreed it was more than likely soldernsplatter, something I was not terribly concerned about avoiding before working with the sft40. So, your right that the "ease of install" is diminished with the sft40.. 

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Check out some of my new lights (picture heavy) and quick first impressions of them here: https://budgetlightforum.com/node/77180

My Sft40 beamshots / comparison thread: https://budgetlightforum.com/node/78100

The BLF GT with SFT40 (2300lm, 2700m+ @ 30 seconds!)
https://budgetlightforum.com/node/79561

fogofwar
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I agree that they are similar which is still pretty impressive for the unknown Chinese manufacturer. The SFS80 is possibly more inconsistent than the SFT40 given some the anecdotal evidence on this site. Although both are not great.

It’s too bad that your SFS80 was poorly centered. Overall, I like the MT35 Mini-S more than I thought I would. I was pleasantly surprised on the lumen output because I thought it would be closer to an Osram W2.

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The sfs80 is 263% the size of the w2 and 132% that of the sft40. I think some might be missing the point of how large this emitter is and that north of 3300 lumens would be needed to match the sft40 at max output and nearly 4200lm to match a w2 in intensity. Short of some voodoo magic – or a terribly nonhomogeneous brightness across the die surface – there is no way it competes in the throw realm with these emitters at max output. I could believe /expect that in the 3-5A range though it will put out more lemons than the sft by a meaningful margin.

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Hank Wang wrote:
The E21A tint ramping version is up, https://intl-outdoor.com/tint-ramping-instant-channel-swiching-led-flash...

How much current does the E21A tint ramping diver deliver? Is it 2.5A on each of the channels?

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