PP etiquette?

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Agro
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PP etiquette?

Let’s say that a seller asks for $X shipped without explicitly stating anything else on the price.
PayPal charges a fee for the transaction, regardless of whether it’s “goods and services” or “family and friends”.

1. Should the buyer pay as much as needed for the seller to actually receive $X or should they pay $X, so the seller actually receives less. I assume that for a person thinking “I see this nice light for $X” having to pay more could be disappointing. Equally, when a seller thinks “I will part with the item for $X” receiving less may feel unfair. Is there an established etiquette on who pays the fee?

2. When the buyer trust the seller, I suppose the choice between F&F and goods is “whatever is cheaper”. I’ve seen a recent thread on the topic stating that fees for goods are lower. But there was yet another fee hike since then and I don’t know whether it still applies. So…what is the best option now?

3. Is there a fee calculator that:

  • covers international transactions
  • is being kept up to date

?

BOO5TED
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The way I see it is if you are selling something and take Paypal as a payment option, you should know what fees will be charged and asking price should be set accordingly. Once you sell something and receive payment you can’t go back and cry about the fees, know what you’re getting into before selling.

"America has three cities, New York, San Francisco and New Orleans. Everywhere else is Cleveland."- Tennessee Williams

 

 

Henk4U2
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You might consider this opting for the easiest way out, but if I want something, I pay what they ask.
If they ask me to pay to F&F, I’ll pay the surcharges. If they don’t ask me, I don’t pay them.

Besides, if I buy a physical item from someone, it is a matter of “goods and services” for me.
And I assume that this person has calculated and included all PP surcharges in the amount he/she asks.

There used to be a calculator in the PP app. That’s gone now.
Last time I tried to come to an estimate of how many EURO an item in a foreign currency would cost,
I ended up on the website of XOOM.
Seems to be part of the fantastic and improved service PP can offer you. (pay $1.99 extra).

You are a flashaholic if you are forced to come out of the closet, to make room for more flashlights.

Binford
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From what I have experience in my hobbies, this is something the seller should state explicitly in the sales prospect. With the exception of ebay, nobody would otherwise know this.

In the vast majority of cases my sellers have assumed the fees (I strongly assume they absorb them in the sales price). Very rarely have I seen a seller who came back with additional requests for fees.

Also, there is a chance the seller and buyer can split the fees 50/50 – which sounds fair to me.

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In personal sales, I will do what the seller asks. On BLF, I ask explicity before payment if the seller has not already laid out the terms.
In general, I would assume “goods and services” and that the seller has already accounted for fees in the asking price. But like I said, I prefer to ask.
If the seller asked for F&F, but I did not feel comfortable doing F&F for some reason, I would counter-offer the seller to pay “goods and services” and to increase my payment amount to account for fees. If they didn’t accept this, I’m not sure I’d trust them.

cpf_borealis
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You know this forum has a sticky on this subject, right?

Tixx
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BOO5TED wrote:
The way I see it is if you are selling something and take Paypal as a payment option, you should know what fees will be charged and asking price should be set accordingly. Once you sell something and receive payment you can’t go back and cry about the fees, know what you’re getting into before selling.

This^

Seller is responsible for the fees of a sale. Seller should price accordingly.

F&F – if you have a relationship and you work together often and feel comfortable doing so, do it.

If you want to just take care of fees for a friend, but don’t want to take away your protection, add 1-3% to the cost of the transaction.

Tixx
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Additional PP etiquette

No more than 3 shakes or….you know the rest.

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My experience has been there’s only a fee using F&F if you use their credit services for the buyers end, otherwise there’s none using an existing balance or linked funds.

Seller should spell out how they want the transaction to be handled up, to be sure their end goal total is met.

DavidEF
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Tixx wrote:
Additional PP etiquette

No more than 3 shakes or….you know the rest.


There’s always a comedian in the crowd! Silly Big Smile

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jon_slider
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I just paid paypal a 4.7% fee on a transaction that came from overseas
my fees are also higher when the buyer pays with a credit card. The lowest paypal fee Ive seen is 3.3%

plus I paid 26.2%!!!! of the sale price in postage

that means 30.9% of the sale price was fees and postage I had to cover out of the sales price (well, the buyer had to cover it actually)

I had a profit of 2.4% on the transaction (I was not trying to make a profit)

the easiest way to increase my profit, would be to sell the item for stated cost, and I pay the paypal fees, but make the buyer pay for shipping.. in that scenario my profit would be 28.6%, but that is not what I did in this case. My goal was simply to help BLF friends save money

Oh, and btw, I do NOT ask people to use FF, I tell them to use goods and services, so they are protected.

and no, I do not go back and cry to the buyer that I charged them too little and made no profit.. I just suck it up.

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Tixx wrote:
Additional PP etiquette

No more than 3 shakes or….you know the rest.

I was thinking it had to do with the standard rules:

1. Get in, do it, wash hands, get out
2. No loud noises, laughing, or funny business
3. Don’t make eye contact
4. Maintain maximum spacing possible
5. Aim well
6. Don’t pull your pants all the way down
etc…

On the paypal thing, I think it largely depends on whether the seller is a private seller or a business. I have a business, and I have to pay credit card fees for each transaction (not in paypal, but through my CC processor). I account for these fees in the price of my goods and services. If I feel inclined, I offer a discount for check/cash payments as these don’t have the same fees associated.

Around here, I’d typically ask first as I don’t know if the seller is a business or a person. I understand the pain of paying fees because of my business, so I check first in case they hadn’t thought of it. I bought some SW45K’s recently, and the seller proactively told me his preference. I think communication is key to proper etiquette here.

avservice
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We each agree to not charge a premium for using PP for a transaction.
We agree to this when signing up to use PP in the first place.

Going in later and talking about fees and who pays them is just B.S. as we already agreed that we would not do so.

The Seller is responsible and if you need to charge enough to cover your entire cost of a sale then just do so from the start.

How is there any Gray area with this?

As a buyer I will not pay a fee.

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avservice wrote:
We each agree to not charge a premium for using PP for a transaction.
We agree to this when signing up to use PP in the first place.

Going in later and talking about fees and who pays them is just B.S. as we already agreed that we would not do so.

The Seller is responsible and if you need to charge enough to cover your entire cost of a sale then just do so from the start.

How is there any Gray area with this?

As a buyer I will not pay a fee.


Well, there are some fees that PayPal charges to the buyer directly in the process of doing the transaction. PayPal will charge those to you over the top of whatever amount you agree to send to the seller. How do you deal with those? Cancel the transaction? I simply pay those fees.

The Cycle of Goodness: “No one prospers without rendering benefit to others”
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avservice
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Which fees are these?
I don’t think I have ever been charged fees directly as a buyer?

DavidEF wrote:
avservice wrote:
We each agree to not charge a premium for using PP for a transaction.
We agree to this when signing up to use PP in the first place.

Going in later and talking about fees and who pays them is just B.S. as we already agreed that we would not do so.

The Seller is responsible and if you need to charge enough to cover your entire cost of a sale then just do so from the start.

How is there any Gray area with this?

As a buyer I will not pay a fee.


Well, there are some fees that PayPal charges to the buyer directly in the process of doing the transaction. PayPal will charge those to you over the top of whatever amount you agree to send to the seller. How do you deal with those? Cancel the transaction? I simply pay those fees.
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avservice wrote:
Which fees are these?
I don’t think I have ever been charged fees directly as a buyer?

DavidEF wrote:
avservice wrote:
We each agree to not charge a premium for using PP for a transaction.
We agree to this when signing up to use PP in the first place.

Going in later and talking about fees and who pays them is just B.S. as we already agreed that we would not do so.

The Seller is responsible and if you need to charge enough to cover your entire cost of a sale then just do so from the start.

How is there any Gray area with this?

As a buyer I will not pay a fee.


Well, there are some fees that PayPal charges to the buyer directly in the process of doing the transaction. PayPal will charge those to you over the top of whatever amount you agree to send to the seller. How do you deal with those? Cancel the transaction? I simply pay those fees.

Off the top of my head, I can think of two: Currency exchange fee and a fee for using a credit card instead of cash account.

The Cycle of Goodness: “No one prospers without rendering benefit to others”
- The YKK Philosophy

avservice
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Well off the top of my head it seems that neither of these fees are imposed by the seller in any way?

So there is really no etiquette call here,if you don’t want to pay that type of fee just do not buy internationally or from a CC account.

DavidEF wrote:
avservice wrote:
Which fees are these?
I don’t think I have ever been charged fees directly as a buyer?

DavidEF wrote:
avservice wrote:
We each agree to not charge a premium for using PP for a transaction.
We agree to this when signing up to use PP in the first place.

Going in later and talking about fees and who pays them is just B.S. as we already agreed that we would not do so.

The Seller is responsible and if you need to charge enough to cover your entire cost of a sale then just do so from the start.

How is there any Gray area with this?

As a buyer I will not pay a fee.


Well, there are some fees that PayPal charges to the buyer directly in the process of doing the transaction. PayPal will charge those to you over the top of whatever amount you agree to send to the seller. How do you deal with those? Cancel the transaction? I simply pay those fees.

Off the top of my head, I can think of two: Currency exchange fee and a fee for using a credit card instead of cash account.
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Yeah, I specifically said PayPal charges those fees. I wasn’t trying to imply that the seller has anything to do with it. But it still is a consideration when purchasing from someone using PayPal. OP wasn’t talking specifically about the seller charging a fee for PayPal usage. He was talking about PayPal fees and asking who should pay those.

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avservice
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DavidEF wrote:
Yeah, I specifically said PayPal charges those fees. I wasn’t trying to imply that the seller has anything to do with it. But it still is a consideration when purchasing from someone using PayPal. OP wasn’t talking specifically about the seller charging a fee for PayPal usage. He was talking about PayPal fees and asking who should pay those.

Understood but there is no Etiquette consideration involved with the Money Handling Fees imposed by the international Monetary System that would be unexpected or in any way part of the deal between you and a seller.

Likewise there is no Etiquette decision really with the Fees charged to the Seller for using PP and they are already agreed to not pass them on whether they choose to follow through with that or not.

So in the end if the Seller tries to impose fees then it is yours to decide about going on with the deal anyway but there is no real alternative to the fees charged by PP or Banks for using finds across international borders and if those are a deal stopper for you then do not use the service that way.

Again not an Etiquette thing at all,is it?

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avservice wrote:
DavidEF wrote:
Yeah, I specifically said PayPal charges those fees. I wasn’t trying to imply that the seller has anything to do with it. But it still is a consideration when purchasing from someone using PayPal. OP wasn’t talking specifically about the seller charging a fee for PayPal usage. He was talking about PayPal fees and asking who should pay those.

Understood but there is no Etiquette consideration involved with the Money Handling Fees imposed by the international Monetary System that would be unexpected or in any way part of the deal between you and a seller.

Likewise there is no Etiquette decision really with the Fees charged to the Seller for using PP and they are already agreed to not pass them on whether they choose to follow through with that or not.

So in the end if the Seller tries to impose fees then it is yours to decide about going on with the deal anyway but there is no real alternative to the fees charged by PP or Banks for using finds across international borders and if those are a deal stopper for you then do not use the service that way.

Again not an Etiquette thing at all,is it?


Um, I’m still not sure you and the OP are talking about the same thing. So, I’ll just say that this ^^^ post of yours, if taken on its own, I agree with. If it’s to be taken in the context of this thread, then I admit I’m a bit confused at this point. Big Smile

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avservice
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Maybe that is true?

The way I read the OP though is that the question is about the deal between the Buyer and Seller but the charges from PP that are mentioned for handling the money across international lines really have nothing at all to do with the Seller but are just something a Buyer has to decide to take on to do the deal.

So the OP asks about Etiquette of the deals which these fees have nothing to do with at all.

Anyway if I am not clear enough by now then so be it!

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BOO5TED wrote:
The way I see it is if you are selling something and take Paypal as a payment option, you should know what fees will be charged and asking price should be set accordingly. Once you sell something and receive payment you can’t go back and cry about the fees, know what you’re getting into before selling.

This.

Sellet should pay the PayPal fee. If you are the seller and want more money to cover the fee, make sure to ask for it up front as part of your quoted cost.

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Firelight2 wrote:
BOO5TED wrote:
The way I see it is if you are selling something and take Paypal as a payment option, you should know what fees will be charged and asking price should be set accordingly. Once you sell something and receive payment you can’t go back and cry about the fees, know what you’re getting into before selling.

This.

Sellet should pay the PayPal fee. If you are the seller and want more money to cover the fee, make sure to ask for it up front as part of your quoted cost.

YUP!!

jon_slider
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As the buyer, I just paid paypal a 4% currency exchange fee, to buy something internationally.

Paypal also charged the seller a separate fee of 5%.

the seller did not ask me to pay his paypal fees, he did ask me to pay for his actual shipping costs.
I did not ask the seller to pay for my currency exchange fees. I did pay the seller for shipping, plus the goods.

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I have both been a seller and a buyer here. Sold lots of stuff and bought lots of stuff. I always know there will be a fee charged by PayPal. I might add a few bucks to the price to help with those fees but I have never asked for extra for shipping or PayPal fees. I don’t sell stuff for profit so I am not watching any margins for anything. I don’t normally sell overseas and I don’t normally buy from overseas. BG and Ali being the exceptions. On my giveaways I will ship anywhere. It’s a giveaway, not much of a giveaway if I restrict who is “in”.

I have run into a few people who didn’t want to use PayPal at all. We just did a bank to bank transfer. Some people might not feel comfortable doing that but, I have never had a issue. One guy wanted to send a check. That was fine with me, it was a small item so I shipped it before his check arrived. It all worked out just fine.

PayPal offers some nice protection for it’s customers and provides a safe place to send and receive money, even if it’s not US dollars. I don’t mind any of their fees. I had upgraded my account to, hell I forget the name, but it’s a actual checking account with a debit card and the whole nine yards. I also got the PayPal credit card. Saves me money sometimes when I purchase certain items sometimes.

I have looked at other money transfer sites. None of them as easy as PayPal. The fees are not identical but they are close. Some don’t have any consumer protections if things go wrong. Some do.

It is what it is. If you are selling, have just one price, shipped and fees included. Unless it’s going overseas. The simpler we make it the simpler it is.

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   Don't send friends and family to an overseas seller ..Not because you don't trust them .. because it will cost you more than if you simply sent them a few extra bux to cover some of the fees .

  Etiquette is a interesting way of asking the question . I agree with Toddcshoe that adding a couple bucks is a simple way of saying to a fellow member that you understand the fact he will have to get hit with paypal fees . I've had lots of people send me just a few extra $ and after being on the receiving end of peoples kindness I realize it's the absolute  correct thing to be doing . It costs exactly 2 bucks to do something nice for someone else .

 I'm highly amused when asked what people think about shills working all over this forum ..The great majority claim that they have no issue whatsoever with someone gaining a few bucks while they score a great deal ... AND yet when they actually have to hand over cash physically their butts tighten up and they get all skittish .

 Etiquette ?  Yeah BLF members ought to show simple kindness ...and Sellers ought to add a tasty treat with every flashlight sold ....and encourage people to do 1000 post giveaways 

 If BLF wants to stand apart ....this is where it begins .

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Boaz wrote:

   Don't send friends and family to an overseas seller ..Not because you don't trust them .. because it will cost you more than if you simply sent them a few extra bux to cover some of the fees .

  Etiquette is a interesting way of asking the question . I agree with Toddcshoe that adding a couple bucks is a simple way of saying to a fellow member that you understand the fact he will have to get hit with paypal fees . I've had lots of people send me just a few extra $ and after being on the receiving end of peoples kindness I realize it's the absolute  correct thing to be doing . It costs exactly 2 bucks to do something nice for someone else .

 I'm highly amused when asked what people think about shills working all over this forum ..The great majority claim that they have no issue whatsoever with someone gaining a few bucks while they score a great deal ... AND yet when they actually have to hand over cash physically their butts tighten up and they get all skittish .

 Etiquette ?  Yeah BLF members ought to show simple kindness ...and Sellers ought to add a tasty treat with every flashlight sold ....and encourage people to do 1000 post giveaways 

 If BLF wants to stand apart ....this is where it begins .

Thanks Boaz! That's perfect!

The Cycle of Goodness: “No one prospers without rendering benefit to others”
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Boaz wrote:

   Don’t send friends and family to an overseas seller ..Not because you don’t trust them .. because it will cost you more than if you simply sent them a few extra bux to cover some of the fees .


  Etiquette is a interesting way of asking the question . I agree with Toddcshoe that adding a couple bucks is a simple way of saying to a fellow member that you understand the fact he will have to get hit with paypal fees . I’ve had lots of people send me just a few extra $ and after being on the receiving end of peoples kindness I realize it’s the absolute  correct thing to be doing . It costs exactly 2 bucks to do something nice for someone else .


 I’m highly amused when asked what people think about shills working all over this forum ..The great majority claim that they have no issue whatsoever with someone gaining a few bucks while they score a great deal … AND yet when they actually have to hand over cash physically their butts tighten up and they get all skittish .


 Etiquette ?  Yeah BLF members ought to show simple kindness …and Sellers ought to add a tasty treat with every flashlight sold ….and encourage people to do 1000 post giveaways 


 If BLF wants to stand apart ….this is where it begins .

I think I would be honored to meet your parents, Boaz. They clearly did an outstanding job of raising someone with integrity and character.

Cheers