Trustfire TR-J12 measurements (5 x XM-L)

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2100
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Trustfire TR-J12 measurements (5 x XM-L)

Under construction :

Purchased from Emmy Zhang : http://www.aliexpress.com/product-fm/517413014-1PC-TrustFire-TR-J12-Flashlight-5-CREE-XM-L-T6-LED-5-Mode-4500-Lumens-Memory-wholesalers.html   (At the bottom you can see 8 purchases, one of them is mine)

The reason why i purchased from here is because (1) They said they will check it before sending out, that's their claim  (2) They offer 15 days warranty after signature for receipt of the product via registered shipping. Any issues, they cover your return postage How cool is that?   (3) 1 year warranty, you pay for shipping back, they ship you a repaired product I guess...not sure.  <<-- caveat emptor, i think i will be buying the next 10x XB-D light or something already.  LOL!

Aliexpress does not use Paypal already, but they use ESCROW.  I just received the product, tested it (as below), just paid them by clicking on the Order is Complete button in aliexpress.  So payment is released from ESCROW -> Aliexpress store.  Else Open Dispute.  It's not paypal, they do not even get paid first.  Smile

I have 3 pages worth of Aliexpress purchases. The only single problem was due to customs check and holding, and finally return to seller via EMS. Contacted the seller, full refund was made to credit card.

 

Ceiling bounce, same location

Trustfire J12 with 2 cells - 225 lux (I put the extender at the bottom in this config to make it equal in height to the 3 cells)

Trustfire J12 with 3 cells - 215 lux (don't ask me why, tailcap measurements sometimes are not representative)

 Cells are done with XTAR 2600 and TF Flames 2400 at about 4.2V full charge.

 

For ref :

DRY CW T6 1A in Turbo : 250 lux

DRY NW T4 5A3 in Turbo : 225 lux

DRY NW T6 3C in Turbo : 255  

DRY WW T3/T4 7B in Turbo : initial 175 lux  (I took out the power resistor inside, Chicago X may want to open his and check for it)

Fenix TK70 - 220 lux

Xtar S1 - 210 lux

Trustfire TR-3T6 - 130 lux

Uniquefire 3900 - 143 lux

Sky Ray SR3800 - 160 lux

Sky Ray SR3800 in DD/DRY drivered  - 260 lux

Sky Ray SR3800 / DRY in maxed out Turbo with fully charged good cells + UCL and ice cooled, initial 305 lux.

Sky Ray SR3800 + DRY ice + SLA and constantly being charged, too high to post. I blew the light though, knocked it hard and it came back.  Too scared to try again. 

SWM T40CS - 79 lux

SWM V60C - 79 lux also

 

Light output sag :  (3-cells)  No wind, enclosed area  28 deg C ambient

1st minite - 213 lux  

5th minute - 205 lux

12th minute - 199 lux (49 deg C at the head)   6.6% sag at 12th minute.   That's very good, the ubiquitous Trustfire TR-3T6 which Benckie so loves is about 5% at 10th minute and that's a massive drop-in with lots of threads plus it's a 130 lux output device while this is a 220 lux device.  Smile  (figures are my ceiling bounce, they are relative)

STOPPED, it's getting hot. I think 10 min runs are very safe....since 99.95% of the folks here enjoy cooler temps than me, except perhaps Poh in BKK.  heh...

 

PWM frequency - 124Hz in low

 

Intensity : 24.6k cd (same as mitro!)

 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ok new measurement. This cell regulates by boosting to a certain point and then goes into direct drive, so it shifts into a lower output. After that even in low mode it manages to trip the cell's protection circuit. I got about 4.6V at the tail (2.3V per cell) before it cuts.

So this light easily digs the cells to below 2.5V. Just another of the lights in which it really uses everything in the cell. (most of my lights have low voltage cut offs way below 2.8V per cell). So yet another example in which testing cell discharges to below 3.0V is needed.

Confirmed - it can still run on 1 x 18650 @ 3.9V, there is light.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

King Kong 26650s will work. The only issue is that the KK 26650 positive end is recessed beneath the wrapper. So any 2 or 3 cell lights would not work.

I used 2 magnet discs for the +ve end, works great. However this is a dangerous solution as the magnet may shift after a knock and this is an unprotected cell. It would be very naive for anyone to rely on the internal anodising as insulation.

A solder blob as +ve nipple works great. It may get dislodged in a hard knock, but it is not "long enough" to touch both the positive cell button and negative tube. Just re-solder.

 

Edited by: 2100 on 01/14/2012 - 08:20
2100
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What do you know, it surpassed my expectations by 10%.  Sealed

 

Cannot unscrew via the front bezel.  Could be a Sky Ray 3800 rev 0/DRY kind of setup, but i am not going to unscrew the driver and mess anything at this point as I will be bringing to Indonesia next week to whack it real good.  I will do 10 mins run and see the output drop and temperature difference.

xed888
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And again, you delivered! Well done 2100. thanks for that! 

 

225 lux! BEtter than TK70 and S1!

2100
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xed888 wrote:

And again, you delivered! Well done 2100. thanks for that! 

 

225 lux! BEtter than TK70 and S1!

Budget lights have their uses as well!  Stupid PWM though, this one is 124Hz.  Xtar S1's 475Hz is considered excellent by reference.  hehe...

bibihang
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Great review! Thanks 2100!

Have you measured the lux of this beast?

2100
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bibihang wrote:

Great review! Thanks 2100!

Have you measured the lux of this beast?

24.6k cd. Dist = 8.2m  Same as mitro, surprisingly.  

xed888
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ah but at USD$85, I can live with it. Not for USD$200 Smile

bibihang
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Yes I have seen mitro's measurement too, which mean this thing can throw at about 310 meters on paper. Seems like it already in some top competitions... Big Smile

2100
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xed888 wrote:

ah but at USD$85, I can live with it. Not for USD$200 Smile

No, the price is not even set yet.  Plus that is MSRP, you need to go find your fav dealer.  BIO is selling the TK70 for 180 bucks shipped.  Smile   I got my V60C @ 101, and M3X at 69.

Pok
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Thanks 2100.

26650s from intl-outdoor are out of stock, may be MNKE will perform better.

My Uncle took my camera, so I will make a mini review later in field beamshot.

2100
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Thanks Pok.

King Kong 26650s will work.  The only issue is that the KK 26650 positive end is recessed beneath the wrapper.  So any 2 or 3 cell lights would not work.

I used 2 magnet discs for the +ve end, works great.  However this is a dangerous solution as the magnet may shift and this is an unprotected cell.

A solder blob as +ve nipple works great.

xed888
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Well, I dont think it will drop down to J12 prices. If it does, I'll just get both haha

ergotelis
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Mine arrived too in the local post office as i saw via tracking, i will have it tomorrow. 

Some comments now, 2100, can you remake the test please? First do the 3 cell test and then the 2 cell test! I guess you did firstly the 2 cell right? I don't think that temp did the job for the difference, but want to see something.

This 124hz PWM is ugly. Really ugly, especially for a bright light like this.

 

Did you read any tailcap readings? I was expecting higher lux readings to be honest, but the ceil readings are really very very good, especially if you have the same tailcap readings that our friend from Sweden measured!!!

2100
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Ergotelis, i already did further tests.  The 215 and 225 lux figures are correct.  There is a small but definitely measureable difference between 2-cell and 3-cell and it's repeatable. It's not due to heat.  Prob some driver efficiency kind of thingy at different voltages.

Tailcap is 2.01A and 3.3A for 3-cell and 2-cell....I am using 4-inch long probes, and a decent DMM the Uni T UT-58E. Solarforce 2400, these cells give me higher current in the DRY than the XTAR 2600s.   I don't like to give current measurements nowadays unless necessary as it is so variable.

I have already cleaned all contacts with Deoxit, does not make a difference.  The threads come pretty clean already.

And yes, the light has square threads!  Quite smooth (by budgetlight standards) when twisting actually even when bone dry.  I think you will be getting 27k cd with 2-cells, if you could get at least 6 metres distance from the light.

 

Your lux readings with a direct reading of the hotspot usually are quite a bit higher than mine (and Selfbuilt's).

 

The light easily sustains a 4A draw from 2-cells when they are somewhat run down, read SUSTAINED. So i am sure someone is going to say this is a bad light soon, because it does not work with their batteries for more than 4 minutes.  (check out the coming soon Ebay postings with the red Ultrafire BRC 3000mAhs)

So how to make this light even more power? It will pop so many cells out there, because people would want to do 2-cells.

xed888
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you're going to have to explain more clearly what you mean by your last paragraph. Do you mean that the LEDs will draw 4A for a long period of time the light is in High?

2100
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For ref, i just measured and my DRY did 27.6k cd.

2100
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xed888 wrote:

you're going to have to explain more clearly what you mean by your last paragraph. Do you mean that the LEDs will draw 4A for a long period of time the light is in High?

Yes, that is correct, when the cell voltage goes down on a typical discharge curve, the current goes up.  It spends quite a lot of time at +/- 4 amps. It already starts off at low 3 amps when the cell is fully charged, and i have good cells which do not sag much. (namely the Sanyos 2600 and actually those free Trustfire Flames 2400 unprotected from Dinodirect give a lot of current as well)

 

This won't be new to Sky Ray 3800 owners. That one starts off at about 2.55A with good cells. With bad cells they already do like nearly 4A.  LOL!  Goner...  The TR-3T6 does about 2.05A, it's much gentler.

Pok
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I have just measure.

All 5*18650 are Soshine 2800mA
Two multimeters same brand and same thick wire
Measure V no load

Tailcap draw

Soshine    Vbat1    Vbat2      MM1     MM2
2*18650   3.97V    3.97V      4.21A    3.95A


2*18650   4.05V    4.05V      3.92A    3.73A


Soshine      Vbat1    Vbat2  Vbat3        MM1     MM2
3*18650      3.96V   3.96V   3.95V       2.35A     2.22A

Current sag quickly, may be when 18650 draw at 4A, V is about 3.5 -3.7V

ergotelis
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2100 wrote:

Ergotelis, i already did further tests.  The 215 and 225 lux figures are correct.  There is a small but definitely measureable difference between 2-cell and 3-cell and it's repeatable. It's not due to heat.  Prob some driver efficiency kind of thingy at different voltages.

 

Nice, did not want to imply that you did it wrong, just wanted to make sure that you checked that. Thanks, this means that the driver has a small difference in performance due to input voltage.

2100 wrote:

Tailcap is 2.01A and 3.3A for 3-cell and 2-cell....I am using 4-inch long probes, and a decent DMM the Uni T UT-58E. Solarforce 2400, these cells give me higher current in the DRY than the XTAR 2600s.   I don't like to give current measurements nowadays unless necessary as it is so variable.

 

Ok, this is fine, you are right about the amp readings, but i always like to check it, in order to see what do i give and what do i get! Smile So far, giving 3,3amp @ 2 cells and taking 2200+ OTF is great!

2100 wrote:

I have already cleaned all contacts with Deoxit, does not make a difference.  The threads come pretty clean already.

And yes, the light has square threads!  Quite smooth (by budgetlight standards) when twisting actually even when bone dry.  I think you will be getting 27k cd with 2-cells, if you could get at least 6 metres distance from the light.

 

Your lux readings with a direct reading of the hotspot usually are quite a bit higher than mine (and Selfbuilt's).

 

Square threads???!!Omg this is a major quality update on their flashlight! Personally, i take lux readings after 30sec at about 4meters and i try to catch the highest lux reading of the flashlight at its hotspot.

2100 wrote:

The light easily sustains a 4A draw from 2-cells when they are somewhat run down, read SUSTAINED. So i am sure someone is going to say this is a bad light soon, because it does not work with their batteries for more than 4 minutes.  (check out the coming soon Ebay postings with the red Ultrafire BRC 3000mAhs)

So how to make this light even more power? It will pop so many cells out there, because people would want to do 2-cells.

This definitely a mistake, they should warn to use only 3x18650 or 2x 26650 or 3x26650. Personally i will be using it with 3 x26650 kingkong, but i am thinking of a mod that will suit my needs. I will remove the driver, and see if there is space, i might add two circuits, one for 2s2p setup and one (possibly kennan 1,5-1,8amp modded setup) for the central led. My dream is, to add a second sideclick switch, but i don't know how enough space there is.

(I saw that you have a M3X, i think that its UCL might fit to the trustfire, i will check this!)

 

 

edit: You said that you wanted to remove the reflectors, possibly, like in the other multiled trustfire setups, the reflectors are removed only if you remove the circuit, and remove the screw inside it.

xed888
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Are you guys saying that this torch shouldn't be used in a 2x18650 setup? Or just don't use crap cells in a 2x18650 setup?

ergotelis
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xed888 wrote:

Are you guys saying that this torch shouldn't be used in a 2x18650 setup? Or just don't use crap cells in a 2x18650 setup?

Just don't use crap cells. But personally, i wouldn't use even good 2x18650, because the stress to the batteries is quite high, they might end up loose their performance much earlier.

2100
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ergotelis wrote:
edit: You said that you wanted to remove the reflectors, possibly, like in the other multiled trustfire setups, the reflectors are removed only if you remove the circuit, and remove the screw inside it.

Yes, if this is not a drop-in, then it's as per standard.  The DRYs (OEMed Brinytes actually) are using this as well.  I have a SR3800 that is totally unassembled coz i blew one of the 16mm stars as it is DRY 3-mode Turbo drivered (that one has strobe) and i blew the LEDs while in strobe with the cells close to 4.20V. 

Currently waiting for 4 x U2 16mms (got them cheap from LED-DNA for slightly over 8 bucks shipped!), 3 for the SR3800 and 1 for the Crelant 7G5.  Sealed  If they are good then i might transfer to the DRY as I have the UCL lens there. But shucks i got 1 extra from Dinodirect as i purchased one of their 14mm T6 but oh well that was 8 bucks only.

2100
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Pok wrote:

I have just measure.

Wow....that's high, even for a cell that is like 3.9V open circuit.  Well into 4A range.  My TF Flames (Dinodirect's) are in the 3.7A range at same voltage now.

Feel free to post your beamshots here Pok. 

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2100 wrote:

 

A solder blob as +ve nipple works great. It may get dislodged in a hard knock, but it is not "long enough" to touch both the positive cell button and negative tube. Just re-solder.

 

ive always scratched the surface of the cell with an awl or something sharp when adding solder. Help the flux/solder to grip better. maybe an engraver will work better. pretty much made it permanent.Wink

03/04/16 

 

8 lives left

xed888
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ergotelis wrote:

xed888 wrote:

Are you guys saying that this torch shouldn't be used in a 2x18650 setup? Or just don't use crap cells in a 2x18650 setup?

Just don't use crap cells. But personally, i wouldn't use even good 2x18650, because the stress to the batteries is quite high, they might end up loose their performance much earlier.

Thanks. IMRs are good for that though, eh? Planning on using AW and/or Senybors. Comments?

2100
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Well I guess if you have $$$ to use AW, just buy the Trustfire 26650 "5000mAh" protected and be done with it. $22 shipped for a pair and most probably +/- 4000mAh if you test it.  The King Kongs are great at 4.3-4.5Ah measured but unprotected.   I could even slot 1 pc of the King Kong 26650 into Xtar S1 triple XM-L (over 6A draw) and operate it at full output for quite a while before it sags on the lux meter and only a little bit.

 

One thing is the cells, you can actually use Trustfire Flames 2400s, they are so darn cheap...quite a few guys here got 1 pair TF Flames protected 2400 and a complimentary pair unprotected for $6.70 shipped. Sealed 

Another thing is the driver of the TR-J12.    Can it sustain the current ramped up reliably?  Heat always wears components down esp if they are not specced correctly.  That was what happened to the SR3800, burned chips/MOSFETs which suddenly creates a dead short.  Luckily i was doing protected XTARs 2600 then....when the light suddenly went out.

However, the Trustfire TR-3T6 seems to be very reliable, as it ramps up when the cells discharges but after a certain point it does not boost and just cut the light down to a much lower level and let it slide down.  Someone needs to test this on the TR-J12, how it behaves when low in voltage.

xed888
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2100 wrote:

Well I guess if you have $$$ to use AW, just buy the Trustfire 26650 "5000mAh" protected and be done with it. $22 shipped for a pair and most probably +/- 4000mAh if you test it.  The King Kongs are great at 4.3-4.5Ah measured but unprotected.   I could even slot 1 pc of the King Kong 26650 into Xtar S1 triple XM-L (over 6A draw) and operate it at full output for quite a while before it sags on the lux meter and only a little bit.

 

One thing is the cells, you can actually use Trustfire Flames 2400s, they are so darn cheap...quite a few guys here got 1 pair TF Flames protected 2400 and a complimentary pair unprotected for $6.70 shipped. Sealed 

Another thing is the driver of the TR-J12.    Can it sustain the current ramped up reliably?  Heat always wears components down esp if they are not specced correctly.  That was what happened to the SR3800, burned chips/MOSFETs which suddenly creates a dead short.  Luckily i was doing protected XTARs 2600 then....when the light suddenly went out.

However, the Trustfire TR-3T6 seems to be very reliable, as it ramps up when the cells discharges but after a certain point it does not boost and just cut the light down to a much lower level and let it slide down.  Someone needs to test this on the TR-J12, how it behaves when low in voltage.

 

its not that I am going to buy the AW's especially for this. Just that I have a pair of them already.

2100
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Well i'd say don't mess up the expensive AWs with this.  The Trustfire Flames 2400 protected work fine (remember to do voltage tests, they will tell you if both are matched), just buy 8 of them from dinodirect and use that $5 off from $30 purchase coupon.  Smile 

 

xed888
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And Senybor 2800s? I probably cant use the AW as they are 2900s and have no positive nipple.

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Damn glad to see the J12 get the 2100 treatment. Fantastic work and now you can trust me when I give you lux readings. LOL I honestly though the J12 might edge out the DRY, but that's OK. Its a testament to how well put-together the DRY is.

I get the almost the same currents with the KKs as you are with 18650s. 3A still isn't that much of a challenge for good 18650s. Keep in mind that since it is wired in parallel, the fewer the cells, the closer the battery voltage is to the Vf of the LEDs and that results in the driver working more efficiently. That explains the better performance on 2 cells and a good reason to have four cells (2 for backup) and throw out the extender. Smile All of my lux testing has been done with 3 cells, so I think I may try 2 x A123 cells. Smile

Thanks for measuring the PWM too. I knew it was low. I'm generally not bothered by it, but I think I've found my threshold.

2100
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mitro wrote:

 and now you can trust me when I give you lux readings. LOL I honestly though the J12 might edge out the DRY, but that's OK. Its a testament to how well put-together the DRY is.

Yeah man, for lights of this nature, I think there is no need for long distances to measure. 8 metres is plenty.

 

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