USB-C Charging lights that only work with a USB A to C cable?

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amishbill
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USB-C Charging lights that only work with a USB A to C cable?

Please focus your replies on the information gathering I’m requesting.

In the LT1 thread, it was mentioned that more and more lights are being made with USB-C charge ports, but that many of them only work with USB-A to USB-C cables.

If you have a light with a USB-C charge port, and access to a quality ‘smart’ USB-C power source, we need your help.

Please post the light model, the type of USB-C charger (not the cable – the charger brick itself) and if it works with a standard USB-C to USB-C cable.

DIY LT1 battery wrap image. "PDF on Google Drive":https://drive.google.com/open?id=1IHIEOi1NXu868IYNCzIM7D2Ulpxchmww

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Edited by: amishbill on 10/29/2019 - 10:05
amishbill
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Acebeam

EC65
USB-C power supply – fail

Astrolux

EC01
— Lenovo USB-C laptop power supply – Fail
— Apple A1720 adapter – Fail
— Anker PowerDrive Speed+ 2 – Fail
— Charmast W1052 Powerbank – Fail

MF01 Mini
— Lenovo USB-C laptop power supply – Fail
— Acer Chromebook USB-C power supply – Fail

FT03
— Apple A1720 adapter – Fail
— Anker PowerDrive Speed+ 2 – Fail
— Charmast W1052 Powerbank – Fail

Airpro

DC7
— Apple A1720 adapter – Fail
— Anker PowerDrive Speed+ 2 – Fail
— Charmast W1052 Powerbank – Fail

Cycliq
Fly 12 CE – charges via C-C, but not all A-C cables (from memory)
Fly 6 CE – charges via all A-C cables I’ve tried, not C-C

Sofirn

SP36
— Acer Chromebook USB-C power supply – Fail

LT1
— Apple iPhone Pro 18W USB-C charger – FAIL
— Anker Premium 60W 5-Port Desktop Charger with One 30W Power Delivery Port – FAIL
— Anker PowerCore 10000 PD Redux Power Bank – FAIL
ZGGCD Universal charger with USB-C – FAIL

Olight

X7R — iPad Pro charger / Thunderbolt 3 C-C cable – Fail

Viltrox

FA-D10
LVSun 110W USB power supply – Fail
— Thinkpad T470, – Fail

DIY LT1 battery wrap image. "PDF on Google Drive":https://drive.google.com/open?id=1IHIEOi1NXu868IYNCzIM7D2Ulpxchmww

Fresh Sanyo NCR18650GAs already wrapped "for sale HERE":http://budgetlightforum.com/node/69120 if you like.

BillyBobJoe
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Astrolux
EC01–Apple A1720 adapter, Anker PowerDrive Speed+ 2, Charmast W1052 Powerbank—Fail, Fail, Fail
FT03–Apple A1720 adapter, Anker PowerDrive Speed+ 2, Charmast W1052 Powerbank—Fail, Fail, Fail

Airpro DC7– Apple A1720 adapter, Anker PowerDrive Speed+ 2, Charmast W1052 Powerbank—Fail, Fail, Fail

oweban
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I can only think of one light that I’m 99% sure is true USB-C to USB-C – Fenix PD36R. Everything else that has a USB-C port, to the best of my knowledge, requires an A-C cable.

tatasal
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While I have type-C rechargeable lights on hand, in my place a type-C to type-C cable is still a rarity and I myself don’t even own one of these connectors so I can’t say yet, though I have a type-C out usb charging port and eventually might try one just to own one!

will34
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Without a USB C coding chip on the flashlight, the input will always be managed by a common ~5V to 4.2V converter or CC/CV charging chip. Most USB C chargers nowadays are strictly power delivery output only, be it 5, 9, 12, 15 or 20V. They won’t send power unless a signal is detected on the other end.

However, if you manage to find old cables or chargers which were stuck with the 5V3A usb c standard or do not have modern safety built in, they will work.

The dangers of having such cables laying around is if you mistakenly connect them to your smartphone or laptop there’s risk of damaging them when paired with the wrong charger.

Anyways, my Olight X7R will charge with all of the USB A-C cables I have with any A port. However when connected with a C to C cable which is rated for USB 3.1+Power delivery, it only works with a powerbank that permanently puts out 5V on the USB C port. When used with a Thunderbolt 3 C-C cable it does not work at all.

Fox
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This is a big problem for me.

I dont have old usb-c power supplies nor old usb c cables

The most ugly place in the world! Surprised

will34
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Just get USB-A to C cables with any ordinary USB A power adapter

Lazy-R-us
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Judging from the results posted so far, it looks like this is a problem across the board. In my opinion it is not a huge problem, but in the spirit of being helpful, I’m proposing an idea: A small board with USB-C (female) input and USB-C (male) output, with 5.1K ohm resistors installed in such a way that the USB-C PD source is convinced to provide at least 5v at 2 amps or so. Perhaps the deluxe version would allow the user to manipulate some DIP switches and choose the charge rate.

Lazy-R-us

Phlogiston
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You could do it that way if you wanted to, but you don’t have to.

Using a USB-C plug to USB-A socket adaptor with the USB-A plug to USB-C plug cable that comes with those lights will work. The adaptor is supposed to have the necessary 5.1kΩ resistor built in.

Note: the adaptor needs to be plugged into the USB-C charger. It won’t work if you connect things up the other way round, because the USB-C charger won’t be able to detect the 5.1kΩ resistor on the far side of the USB-A connection.

An advantage of owning the adaptor is that you can also use it to charge an older USB device that comes with a USB-A plug to USB-B / Mini-B / Micro-B plug cable.

ZEUSFL
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En using USB-C to maximize charging power, the computer needs to have USB 3.1. If you have USB 3.0 will charge only 1.8Amps. USB 2.0 much less and I don't think will even charge at all in USB 1.0. 

 

Quote from Google

USB 3.1 Type-C cables offer a transfer rate of 10Gbps, which is double the transfer speed of USB 3.0 (5 Gbps). Additionally, these cables will offer 20 volts and 5 amps of power, compared with the 5 volts and 1.8 amps of its predecessor.Mar 12, 2015

 

 

Release name Release date Max. power Note
USB Battery Charging 1.0 2007-03-08 5 V, ? A  
USB Battery Charging 1.1 2009-04-15 5 V, 1.8 A [41]
USB Battery Charging 1.2 2010-12-07 5 V, 5 A [42]
USB Power Delivery revision 1.0 (version 1.0) 2012-07-05 20 V, 5 A Using FSK protocol over bus power (VBUS)
USB Power Delivery revision 1.0 (version 1.3) 2014-03-11 ?  
USB Type-C rev1.0 2014-08-11 5 V, 3 A New connector and cable specification
USB Power Delivery revision 2.0 (version 1.0) 2014-08-11 20 V, 5 A Using BMC protocol over communication channel (CC) on USB-C cables.
USB Type-C rev1.1 2015-04-03 5 V, 3 A  
USB Power Delivery revision 2.0 (version 1.1) 2015-05-07 20 V, 5 A  
USB Type-C rev1.2 2016-03-25 5 V, 3 A  
USB Power Delivery revision 2.0 (version 1.2) 2016-03-25 20 V, 5 A  
USB Power Delivery revision 2.0 (version 1.3) 2017-01-12 20 V, 5 A  
USB Power Delivery revision 3.0 (version 1.1) 2017-01-12 20 V, 5 A  
USB Type-C rev1.3 2017-07-14 5 V, 3 A  
USB Power Delivery revision 3.0 (version 1.2) 2018-06-21 20 V, 5 A  
USB Type-C rev1.4 2019-03-29 5 V, 3 A  
USB Type-C rev2.0 2019-08-29 5 V, 3 A Enabling USB4 over USB Type-C connectors and cables.
USB Power Delivery revision 3.0 (version 2.0) 2019-08-29 20 V, 5 A [43]

 

USB power standards
Specification Current Voltage Power (max.)
Low-power device 100 mA 5 V[a] 0.50 W
Low-power SuperSpeed (USB 3.0) device 150 mA 5 V[a] 0.75 W
High-power device 500 mA[b] 5 V 2.5 W
High-power SuperSpeed (USB 3.0) device 900 mA[c] 5 V 4.5 W
Multi-lane SuperSpeed (USB 3.2 Gen 2) device 1.5 A[d] 5 V 7.5 W
Battery Charging (BC) 1.1 1.5 A 5 V 7.5 W
Battery Charging (BC) 1.2 5 A 5 V 25 W
USB-C 1.5 A 5 V 7.5 W
3 A 5 V 15 W
Power Delivery 1.0 Micro-USB 3 A 20 V 60 W
Power Delivery 1.0 Type-A/B 5 A 20 V 100 W
Power Delivery 2.0/3.0 Type-C[e] 5 A 20 V 100 W
  1. Jump up to:a b The VBUS supply from a low-powered hub port may drop to 4.40 V.
  2. ^ Up to five unit loads; with non-SuperSpeed devices, one unit load is 100 mA.
  3. ^ Up to six unit loads; with SuperSpeed devices, one unit load is 150 mA.
  4. ^ Up to six unit loads; with multi-lane devices, one unit load is 250 mA.
  5. ^ Requires active PD 5 A cable.

Imalent MS18
Acebeam X80-GT
Fireflies E07 x2
Emisar D4S V2 26650

amishbill
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will34 wrote:

Anyways, my Olight X7R will charge with all of the USB A-C cables I have with any A port. However when connected with a C to C cable which is rated for USB 3.1+Power delivery, it only works with a powerbank that permanently puts out 5V on the USB C port. When used with a Thunderbolt 3 C-C cable it does not work at all.


OK, so your Olight doesn’t charge with a Thunderbolt 3 C-C cable — but we know the cable is not the issue. What charger / power source is that cable attached to?

DIY LT1 battery wrap image. "PDF on Google Drive":https://drive.google.com/open?id=1IHIEOi1NXu868IYNCzIM7D2Ulpxchmww

Fresh Sanyo NCR18650GAs already wrapped "for sale HERE":http://budgetlightforum.com/node/69120 if you like.

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amishbill wrote:
will34 wrote:

Anyways, my Olight X7R will charge with all of the USB A-C cables I have with any A port. However when connected with a C to C cable which is rated for USB 3.1+Power delivery, it only works with a powerbank that permanently puts out 5V on the USB C port. When used with a Thunderbolt 3 C-C cable it does not work at all.


OK, so your Olight doesn’t charge with a Thunderbolt 3 C-C cable — but we know the cable is not the issue. What charger / power source is that cable attached to?

I tried my X7R with my apple ipad pro charger and cable, and that combo will not work

Olight: M3XS-UT, S Mini CU, R50 CU, R50 Pro LE, M2R, I3T Cu, S30R III, Marauder X6, X7R, X9R - BLF: Q8, A6, GT, GT mini - Emisar: D1s, D4Ti - Reylight: Tripple Dawn, Ti Lan 

Nitecore: TM26GT, SRT9, EC11, T5s, P05Pink, LA10, HC33, HC70 - Fenix: TK75Vn FiatLux, TK76, CL05, CL09 -  Lumintop: Tool Ti, IYP365Ti - Astrolux: MF01 Lexel driver - FourSevens: Maelstrom MMU-X3 

TheIntruder
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USB-C may be a good thing if it supplants Micro-USB (connector-wise), but in every other respect, it carries the same baggage as past standards, and will get even worse as the USB-IF piles more of them on top.

At least in the past, it was reasonably easy to determine the purpose and capability of a cable just by looking at it. With USB-C, good luck with that.

Does it support fast charging? Fast transfers? Both? Neither?

And by not making the baseline so that USB-C must support higher standards like 3.0 or better, it still forces one to carry around extra cables, or carefully select the proper types for intended use. They could have taken the cable guesswork out of the equation, and just left it to devices, by making the former meet a certain minimum standard.

Classic committee-think, with an eye toward being cheap, rather than good.

amishbill
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TheIntruder wrote:

At least in the past, it was reasonably easy to determine the purpose and capability of a cable just by looking at it. With USB-C, good luck with that.
….

Um… as far as I have noticed, a USB-C cable is a USB-C cable is a USB-C cable. The smarts of the system are in the host and target devices.

What USB-C to USB-C cables have you encountered that are application specific?

DIY LT1 battery wrap image. "PDF on Google Drive":https://drive.google.com/open?id=1IHIEOi1NXu868IYNCzIM7D2Ulpxchmww

Fresh Sanyo NCR18650GAs already wrapped "for sale HERE":http://budgetlightforum.com/node/69120 if you like.

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amishbill
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Um, I think you’re in the wrong thread. Post that in one of the LT1 threads.

DIY LT1 battery wrap image. "PDF on Google Drive":https://drive.google.com/open?id=1IHIEOi1NXu868IYNCzIM7D2Ulpxchmww

Fresh Sanyo NCR18650GAs already wrapped "for sale HERE":http://budgetlightforum.com/node/69120 if you like.

TheIntruder
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amishbill wrote:
TheIntruder wrote:

At least in the past, it was reasonably easy to determine the purpose and capability of a cable just by looking at it. With USB-C, good luck with that.
….

Um… as far as I have noticed, a USB-C cable is a USB-C cable is a USB-C cable. The smarts of the system are in the host and target devices.

What USB-C to USB-C cables have you encountered that are application specific?

They’re not when I have to specifically buy a 3.0 cable to connect my computer to my drive enclosure for it to operate as intended.

The majority of them are 2.0 cables, which is fine for users who care more about fast charging their phones, but not as data cables.

The USB-IF could have made all USB-C cables meet 3.0 at a minimum, but it didn’t. What sense did it make to create a fancy new connector to usher in the new era of fast data, and then allow cables using the same connector to be gimped to 2.0 speeds? That’s not full forward progress.

And there’s the silliness of the whole 3.x Gen1/Gen2 naming scheme, which is a separate issue, created by geeks, for geeks. The average Joe who has.a hard time telling if their phone is fast charging stands no chance trying to sort out that mess.

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amishbill wrote:
TheIntruder wrote:

At least in the past, it was reasonably easy to determine the purpose and capability of a cable just by looking at it. With USB-C, good luck with that.
….

Um… as far as I have noticed, a USB-C cable is a USB-C cable is a USB-C cable. The smarts of the system are in the host and target devices.

What USB-C to USB-C cables have you encountered that are application specific?

There are 6 different types of USB-C to USB-C cables and they all look the same, it’s without doubt one of the worst cable standards I’ve ever encountered.

https://people.kernel.org/bleung/how-many-kinds-of-usb-c-to-usb-c-cables...

I have encountered at least one device (Canon EOS R camera) which will not charge from an incorrect type of “USB-C” cable.

USB is a mess.

Lazy-R-us
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The wonderful thing about standards is that there are SO MANY to choose from!

Yes, the committee should have developed a robust standard. Do you have any real expectations that cable manufacturers would meet them?

Ultrafire USB-C cables! Supports charging at 1.21 jigga Watts! Data transfer rates of eleventeen Terra bits per femptosecond! On sale now!

Lazy-R-us

amishbill
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Siftah wrote:

There are 6 different types of USB-C to USB-C cables and they all look the same, it’s without doubt one of the worst cable standards I’ve ever encountered.

https://people.kernel.org/bleung/how-many-kinds-of-usb-c-to-usb-c-cables...

I have encountered at least one device (Canon EOS R camera) which will not charge from an incorrect type of “USB-C” cable.

USB is a mess.


Well damn.
You learn something new every day.

DIY LT1 battery wrap image. "PDF on Google Drive":https://drive.google.com/open?id=1IHIEOi1NXu868IYNCzIM7D2Ulpxchmww

Fresh Sanyo NCR18650GAs already wrapped "for sale HERE":http://budgetlightforum.com/node/69120 if you like.

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Remember when even the USB A to C cables were problematic because the manufacturers didn’t put in the necessary resistor? Fun times.

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In case it helps at all, the only light I’ve heard of which probably does work with a C-to-C cable is the Fenix PD36R. And I haven’t even been able to 100% confirm if it works. But based on the info I’ve found, it sounds like it probably does.

Otherwise, it seems to be the norm that lights require an A-to-C cable for charging.

amishbill
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I sent an email to Olight asking about the $300 light mentioned above that misbehaves like this. I’m curious what they say.

I can see a $25 light design skimping on $0.60 of “optional” parts… but a $279 ×7R?

Do we have a contact at Astrolux I can ask about their lights?

DIY LT1 battery wrap image. "PDF on Google Drive":https://drive.google.com/open?id=1IHIEOi1NXu868IYNCzIM7D2Ulpxchmww

Fresh Sanyo NCR18650GAs already wrapped "for sale HERE":http://budgetlightforum.com/node/69120 if you like.

Siftah
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amishbill wrote:
I sent an email to Olight asking about the $300 light mentioned above that misbehaves like this. I’m curious what they say.

I kind of feel like the whole “USB-C” thing on flashlights is a joke – the benefit of USB-C over all the other variants of USB is the ability for them to dynamically work out between the devices which device needs charging and which can be used to charge from, for example if I plug my phone into my laptop and the phone gets charged or if I plug my phone into my battery pack, the phone gets charged – but plugging the battery pack into the laptop, the laptop gets charged, all with the same cable.

That’s useful!

Being able to charge my flashlight from my battery pack or charge my phone from my flashlight, with the same cable, that’s also useful.

The way it’s implemented on flashlights is nothing more than a very mild convenience in it having the same connector – especially useless if the connector it needs (USB-A to USB-C) is one of the less common types available. It’d actually be much easier to find a USB-A to USB Mini or Micro cable.

So the whole things a bit of a sham…

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LT1

Apple iPhone Pro 18W USB-C charger – FAIL

Anker Premium 60W 5-Port Desktop Charger with One 30W Power Delivery Port – FAIL

Anker PowerCore 10000 PD Redux Power Bank – FAIL

ZGGCD Universal charger with USB-C – FAIL

Monoprice Select Plus USB Power Bank – Success!

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I have 2 bike lights with USB-C ports:

  • Cycliq Fly 12 CE – charges via C-C, but not all A-C cables (from memory)
  • Cycliq Fly 6 CE – charges via all A-C cables I’ve tried, not C-C

USB-C chargers tested:

  • Plugable USB Type-C Power Delivery 60W Power Supply
  • Google Pixelbook 45W charger
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The Relic XR2 I recently got will charge A-C or C-C and charge other devices C-C. Check out my posts for my initial review video and more info.

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The Noctigon K1 charges fine from an Apple MacBook USB-C charger. Also an iPad charges it too fine, useful in an emergency I guess.

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Wuben T70 – fail ( released 12/2018)
Nitecore Minix – pass!( modern, just released 2021) (though it is very small, high current not used or needed)

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Sofirn SC21 – PASS

It charges just fine using the USB-C chargers that came with my Samsung phone and Lenovo Laptop.

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