Interest collect for a new Sofirn design: tube style18650, magnetic ring control, USB-C charging, 500 lm max (AKA grandma light)

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DrDevil
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djozz wrote:
We passed the 100, so 10% of the needed interest is met in little more than 1 day. I’m happy about that. Lots more needed but I feel that I can already show Sofirn that this light has potential. Smile

Over on TLF there ist also a survey based on this Thread here.
It seems there is also a large demand on such a ´grandmas light´

https://www.taschenlampen-forum.de/threads/sofirn-aka-grandma-light-tlf-...

At the moment there is a demand on nearly 50

hank
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Make sure it doesn’t have to require having the light turned on for the USB charging to work.
I have a couple of lights with that requirement and they’re quite confusing to new users.

blueb8llz
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In for at least 5. I’m liking the concept. I would also like another same design but for the blfers, more lumens. Haha

Jerommel
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blueb8llz wrote:
In for at least 5. I’m liking the concept. I would also like another same design but for the blfers, more lumens. Haha

Yeah, at least the driver should be easy to resitor-mod into more power. Smile
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hank wrote:
Quote:
- Put on some leather gloves. - Take a simple light and see how “easy” you can handle that. That is not a fun play. That’s grandma, for the rest of her life.

https://etd.auburn.edu/bitstream/handle/10415/5985/11_15_2017_Lin_Gong_F...

Guidelines for designing handheld tools for the elderly.

Quote:
Abstract This thesis includes a set of guidelines on the basis of which to design handheld tools for elderly people. Elderly people area very special group of customers. First, their bodies go through many changes with the aging process. One of the goals of thesis is to study these physical changes to figure out how to design handheld tools for this special group of users. Secondly, the psychological states of older people are very different than those of normal healthy adults. If designers want to design products that are suitable for use by older people, then they need to do research on the physiology and psychology of aging.

Note for exmple the mention of rocker switches.

Oh, and the diameter section for handheld tools:

Quote:
4.1.1 Diameter of an electric toothbrush handle According to the research results of Chapter 3, we can know that the handle length should be greater than 4.76” (121mm) and the applicable range of handle diameter of an electric toothbrush should be between1.18” (30mm) to 1.97” (50mm) for both normal adults and elderly people to hold. However, the author found that the diameters of the majority of electric toothbrushes in today’s market are too thin to hold. …

Could be one reason the old 2D flashlights remain popular with older people — the battery tube is big enough to hold easily and to find.

Strongly agree. There seems to be an unstated but well intentioned belief as hinted in the beginning of this thread, that the more itsy-bitsy teeny-wheene the form factor and size the better. That of course is a gross oversimplification, as the above research clearly states. Furthermore it woud make our design decisions far more taxing.

Is there an unstated belief that the fictitious granny needs something unthreatening that of course resembles a girly cylindrical lip-stick?

N.B, A clean cylinder is one of the worst shapes since it will roll off any uneven surface and by Murphy’s Law straight under a heavy item of furniture. Presumably, one would then be called upon to find torch to try to locate it! Common 18650 lights typically have a pocket clip which presumably won’t be used here?

djozz wrote:
@hank&others, thanks for the research and norms, I guess then that this will not become a proper grandma light then, at least it will not be for the granniest of granniest Big Smile

One of the starting points of this project is that it must be an attractive light for flashoholics too (it must be fun to give this light away with a certain proudness) , and going back (with all respect) to D-cell Maglite format whith the performance not different from a S2+ does not sound attractive to me. I must confess that my personal preference for compactness in flashlights plays a certain role here Innocent

Good news:
The two positions that djozz states above are NOT irreconcilable. I propose a bone shapes light. Something not a cylinder but more along the lines of a Klarus 18650 but presumably little less tactical looking. No need for strike bezel capability!!!?

So the bone shape would include: A wider head radius -makes flexibility of led carrier MCCB design of an/all mods much easier. A purposeful tail flange to facilitate grip and prevent rolling around. Possible space for tail electronics / magnetic charge port etc.
-Whilst aiding to satisfy grip ergonomics.

Remember that the mark of good light is that it is easy to hold and operate whilst wearing thick gloves. Elderly persons often wear thick gloves sadly even indoors. They definitely will when faced with the need of sudden winter tasks outdoors such as e.g.locating a missing pet animal etc. You too will appreciate glove-friendly bone-shape when indulging in sub-zero WROL camping survival.

As indeed always for all discerning BLF users, deep and proper traditional knurling is a must for winter etc reasons and the leading picture of the thread points to this.

No-2-Ageing

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Promote speedy arrival of proper ageing REVERSAL medicine. It IS possible. - It's going to end not only the persistent curse of old age - but therefore - dying! We don't want to be the last generation to miss the boat. - Are you in?

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Failed to mention earlier:
Bone shape greatly helps gloved or arthritic fingers to curl under the tube to lift it.

- No-2-Ageing

Vital:
Promote speedy arrival of proper ageing REVERSAL medicine. It IS possible. - It's going to end not only the persistent curse of old age - but therefore - dying! We don't want to be the last generation to miss the boat. - Are you in?

Fubarge
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I’d buy one

fourbyfive
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Take two. More if released in time for Christmas gifts.
By all means, KIS

Jerommel
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No-2-Ageing wrote:

Is there an unstated belief that the fictitious granny needs something unthreatening that of course resembles a girly cylindrical lip-stick?


LOL

Frankly, it seems that the plan has already forgotten about about granny..

I also wonder if a ‘granny light’ could end up being attractive to the average BLF flashlight nut,

or if a BLF member tempting light could end up as a suitable granny light.

You and others have some excellent points regarding geriatric ergonomics.

The idea of a ‘twisty ring for the thumb’ interface seems to be good though, as long as it requires only little force.

But still a press button would be better if the user has some trouble holding it, because the thumb is essential for holding things you don’t want to drop.

But, the idea is to have modes or stepless dimming, and not by ramping (which requires the user to react quickly), but by dialing (or sliding for that matter).

As for the shape, yes, a head that’s larger than the battery tube, and the tail should be larger too, and they shouldn’t be able to roll off surfaces, so they need flat surfaces or something. Maybe hexagonal? Challenging to make that look good, though…

How about the size?

A 18650 light seems a bit thin.

21700 lights too.

A 26650 (C-cell width) light would be better.

But how about the type of battery?

Is granny gonna use it daily?

Probably not.

So it should have batteries that keep their charge for a long time i.m.o.

Maybe the light shouldn’t be round at all, but more the shape of a remote control, which could house 4x CR123A, 2 pairs in series next to each other.

CR123A batteries are ideal for lights that always need to be able to work in emergency situations.

…or is she gonna use it daily? Or daily, but only in winter time?

Another possibility is to make it a light with a mains plug, with NiMH cells that can survive constant charging, so you can keep it charged and only take it out of the wall socket when you need it.

Makes it easy to find too, when it’s always plugged in a wall socket.

.

Okay, enough what abouts, what ifs, maybes and other speculations..

It’s gonna be a USB rechargeable, single cell light with a twisty ring user interface.

Probably 21700 Li-ion and with some flat bits on the head so it won’t roll off the table.

The manual stepless dimming should be good for any user.

Jerommel
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Oh, i just thought of something else:

For an elderly person, or perhaps for anyone, although there are drawbacks too…

Thinking of a mechanical motion detector, like in automatic bicycle lights, but implemented differently.

I’m thinking of a blinky mode of some sorts (SOS ?), activated when the light hasn’t moved for, say 5 minutes (or less?).

It alarms the user who forgot to turn it off, but it also functions as an emergency beacon, for when the user stopped functioning… …so to speak…

The drawback is that you can’t use it tail standing for more than those 5 minutes…

Jerommel
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fourbyfive wrote:
Take two. More if released in time for Christmas gifts. By all means, KIS

It’s always released before Christmas. Wink

netprince
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Interested in 3.

drillbit
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I’m in for 1.

drillbit

amaretto
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I’ll take one.

No-2-Ageing
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Jerommel wrote:

Frankly, it seems that the plan has already forgotten about about granny..

I also wonder if a ‘granny light’ could end up being attractive to the average BLF flashlight nut,

or if a BLF member tempting light could end up as a suitable granny light.

[…]
How about the size?

A 18650 light seems a bit thin.

21700 lights too.

A 26650 (C-cell width) light would be better.

But how about the type of battery?

Is granny gonna use it daily?

Probably not.

So it should have batteries that keep their charge for a long time i.m.o.

Maybe the light shouldn’t be round at all, but more the shape of a remote control, which could house 4x CR123A, 2 pairs in series next to each other.

CR123A batteries are ideal for lights that always need to be able to work in emergency situations.

…or is she gonna use it daily? Or daily, but only in winter time?

Another possibility is to make it a light with a mains plug, with NiMH cells that can survive constant charging, so you can keep it charged and only take it out of the wall socket when you need it.

Makes it easy to find too, when it’s always plugged in a wall socket.

.

Okay, enough what abouts, what ifs, maybes and other speculations..

It’s gonna be a USB rechargeable, single cell light with a twisty ring user interface.

Probably 21700 Li-ion and with some flat bits on the head so it won’t roll off the table.

The manual stepless dimming should be good for any user.

Quote:
Frankly, it seems that the plan has already forgotten about about granny..

Good. Because the term is highly patronising to senior citizens AND to BLF members who when it is done right see below gonna want to EDC it themselves anyways because the light corrects all the shortcomings endemic to what is available till now.

Project needs a decent working title.

The underpinning philosophy is that the ideal of a great design always functions as a great design regardless of the user(s). Everyone rest assured that we are most definitely trying to create the best i.e. most usable hand held single cell light of its cell class. That means its fool proof. I stress that there is no need to try and think of something to be spastic friendly. Pardon my deliberate non-pc rude term to stretch a point. By creating the best i.e. most ergonomically usable light so what it does it does really well, one shall already de facto create a product suitable for senior citizens. It kills two birds with one stone.

Quote:
I also wonder if a ‘granny light’ could end up being attractive to the average BLF flashlight nut,

Yes, absolutely if it’s really thought out and done right then I you and any BLF nut gonna want it. Making it good means you make it foolproof hence reliable and inherently usable to ALL people in ALL situations. As an example; Is a hypothetical end user going to want water immersion resistance to IP8X and beyond? … Some will. It doesn’t harm.
Quote:
It’s gonna be a USB rechargeable, single cell light with a twisty ring user interface.

Yep. But I am going to vote in this day and age magnetic charging is a must. Either instead of, or ideally together with usb. We want it BLF Nut Pro right? No nonsense quick and indestructible charging connect is the way to go. Think Olight, Klarus, Rofis.
USB=PITA !!!

Quote:
…or is she gonna use it daily? Or daily, but only in winter time?

Good point. As a rule outdoor use demands something like x10 lumens compared with working indoors for comparable tasks. Note for battery choices.

Quote:
Another possibility is to make it a light with a mains plug, with NiMH cells that can survive constant charging, so you can keep it charged and only take it out of the wall socket when you need it.

Professional grade end-point voltage control for floating the cell allows keeping any battery on charge indefinitely. I’d hope that corners would not be cut.
Quote:
The manual stepless dimming should be good for any user.

Except that it likely involves potentiometer sensing. This would be difficult and expensive to make robust and leak tight to be reliable. IMHO Hall effect stepped switching is optimal ideal with the on-off provided by mech clicky switch for zero standby parasitic drain.

Vital:
Promote speedy arrival of proper ageing REVERSAL medicine. It IS possible. - It's going to end not only the persistent curse of old age - but therefore - dying! We don't want to be the last generation to miss the boat. - Are you in?

Sari33
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interested if with infinite variable control ring
and very warm Led

djozz
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Sari33 wrote:
interested if with infinite variable control ring
and very warm Led

That is not the flashlight of the OP.
djozz
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hank wrote:
Make sure it doesn’t have to require having the light turned on for the USB charging to work.
I have a couple of lights with that requirement and they’re quite confusing to new users.

I will add that to the wishlist
djozz
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blueb8llz wrote:
In for at least 5. I’m liking the concept. I would also like another same design but for the blfers, more lumens. Haha

Sofirn made a new version of the SC31 with more lumens, so I would not be surprised if such a version will be made after this one too.
djozz
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@No-2-Ageing, as said before, I will not allow this light to become bulky or ugly, so a “bone shape” will not happen if it is up to me.

But adding a subtle anti-roll structure to the design could be useful, added to the wishlist. Smile

Btw, some of you guys have pretty extreme ideas about ability loss of old people, most old people I know can physically operate a flashlight fine. Of course there is a category that is actually physically disabled and this flashlight is not for them, maybe a 2D Maglite is a better gift.

I almost wished that I left out the term “grandma light”, even though all grandma’s I know will be fine with the light of the OP.

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DrDevil wrote:
djozz wrote:
We passed the 100, so 10% of the needed interest is met in little more than 1 day. I’m happy about that. Lots more needed but I feel that I can already show Sofirn that this light has potential. Smile

Over on TLF there ist also a survey based on this Thread here.
It seems there is also a large demand on such a ´grandmas light´

https://www.taschenlampen-forum.de/threads/sofirn-aka-grandma-light-tlf-...

At the moment there is a demand on nearly 50


Wow, that helps a lot, thanks for starting that. I will follow the list on TLF to get accurate subtotals
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Control ring, I’m in Jos.

djozz
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No-2-Aging wrote:
The underpinning philosophy is that the ideal of a great design always functions as a great design regardless of the user(s). Everyone rest assured that we are most definitely trying to create the best i.e. most usable hand held single cell light of its cell class. That means its fool proof. I stress that there is no need to try and think of something to be spastic friendly. Pardon my deliberate non-pc rude term to stretch a point. By creating the best i.e. most ergonomically usable light so what it does it does really well, one shall already de facto create a product suitable for senior citizens. It kills two birds with one stone.

That is my opinion as well, aim no 1 that I will not let go is making a good flashlight, and that will naturally be a good flashlight for all kinds of people.

Btw, I find “grandma light” not that patronising and I doubt that many senior citizens will, but that may also be the european in me. It is a reference to older discussions on BLF and has a function in the title as such, even if the term does not fully overlap with the light that this thread is about.

Jerommel
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djozz wrote:
@No-2-Ageing, as said before, I will not allow this light to become bulky or ugly, so a “bone shape” will not happen if it is up to me.
I don’t think he means it should look like a bone, Jos. LOL

He means that the head and tailcap diameter should be larger than the battery tube.
This is not uncommon in flashlights, it usually looks good too.

djozz
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Jerommel wrote:
djozz wrote:
@No-2-Ageing, as said before, I will not allow this light to become bulky or ugly, so a “bone shape” will not happen if it is up to me.
I don’t think he means it should look like a bone, Jos. LOL

He means that the head and tailcap diameter should be larger than the battery tube.
This is not uncommon in flashlights, it usually looks good too.


The actual design will be done by sofirn anyway, then we can ask for a couple of adaptations if needed.
christoph
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I’m in for at least two
Chris

Chris

richbuff said “Sometimes, I feel depressed about my spirit having been cast down to the hostile surface of this one-star planet, without my asking God first, and without God asking me first. I have found that a brief burst of maximum light from what is currently the smallest size flashlight per power makes it all ok/fine for a while, until the next time I feel the need to repeat.”

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I’ll commit to at least one or two.

Just a simple man.

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Put me on the list for one. Looks like an interesting project

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Add me to the list

Texas Ace Lumen Tube calibrated with maukka lights

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YouTube channel – https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIUWi2vYp4CWrRkOJM70t_w/videos (Demos for my customers, and reviews)

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Hello djozz,

if this would be called a ‘Grandma light’ I think, 5000K CCT is too cool for the grandmas. 3500K would be much more comfortable.

If this could be realized with 3500K, then I would be in for 3 units.

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