Alpg88 2019 Old-Lumens Challenge Entry, machine category

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pinkpanda3310
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Others might think differently but I think it’s not the same. Also it would leave the door open to sending dwgs to a metal CNC fabricator. Expensive, yes but would you be happy to be grouped in with that category? If you have an idea but don’t actually make anything then your only limit is your budget.

  

pinkpanda3310
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Apologies to apg88, sorry, I didn’t mean to derail your thread Oops

  

Joshk
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This year’s competition was desperate for contestants. The discussion of that triggered many entries, as PP knows. So why are we scared of adding a 3D printing category? It seems to be fear of the unknown. Let’s get that category going and see how it goes. If there is a issue, the contestant just comes in last place and the rules are updated next year.

PS- if you know of a way to turn an “idea” into a 3D model, then flashlight, for less than the value of any of those prizes, let me know.

CRX
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Looks like we have a start for the 8th contest organisers Big Smile Thumbs Up

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I’m sure not complaining about the prizes. They are pretty good.
The issue seems to be that the weeks/months worth of planning, drawing, 3D modelling, fixing, repeating seem to be thought of as free and effortless. Then you still need to hire the actual printing in this cheating scenario.

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Maybe a new category with new rules is required but the spirit of the contest was always to make something with your own hands, preferably at home with tools you own.

I know it can take a lot of time & work to plan a design for printer builds though creating a design then sending it out to be fabricated with someone else watching over it, checking it and approving it doesn’t sit right with me personally but I am biased towards hands on tool fabrication of course.
So yeah, I think a new category would be best in the future for printed builds with specific rules for it.

pinkpanda3310
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Joshk wrote:
So why are we scared of adding a 3D printing category?

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not against a 3d print category. I was more against outsourcing services. As you highlighted it becomes more of a collaboration rather than an individual effort. Of course, we can have more discussion about that and if enough people want it then maybe the organisers will make the changes to allow outsourcing.

  

Joshk
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Outsourcing is tough too because of all the communication that needs to happen. Then there’s shipping cost every time you need to fix fitment or something. The only way I see outsourcing working for something like alpg88 or I did would be to have another person just source all the parts and do all the work. And at that point, there’s no point.

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Something else to point out is that 3D printed parts are rarely solid plastic. And even if they were, plastic cracks and melts when you start modifying it. You usually can’t fix mistakes with drills, dremels, and grinders. You go back to the PC, fix it, and do another print.

G0OSE
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Another thing that occurred to me during the judging not really knowing anything about 3d printing , was the opportunity for ‘lifting’ designs from other sources on thingiverse etc, modifying those designs/drawings or using parts of them.

For example,take a basic battery holder – 2 × 18650 cells in series with a removable lid – user Jimmyjoebloggs Question downloads one from the net and uses it in his design, he also downloads a switch holder and a few other ‘functional’ non design parts, but the overall outside design and internal structure is completely his own work.

Bearing in mind it would be a brand new category – would you 3d print guys consider the above scenario cheating, or playing fair? right or wrong?

I only ask as I don’t have a 3d printer, so have no idea how often it happens (using bits of others designs etc) only that presumably it does?
It would be nice for whoever runs it next year to have input from the people who use them on the new rules should there be any.
Just thoughts lol! Smile

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Stepping back from the details of 3D printing, I firmly believe any contestant that gets 3rd party help and presents the work as his own is cheating.
That said, I’m not against 3rd party help in the competition, just as long as everyone knows the extent of the help so his actual work can be judged accordingly.

As far as downloading a battery holder and printing it, it seems the same as buying a battery holder to me. It’s just another way of shopping. Again, I’m good with it as long as they don’t present it as work they did.

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Joshk wrote:
Stepping back from the details of 3D printing, I firmly believe any contestant that gets 3rd party help and presents the work as his own is cheating.
That said, I’m not against 3rd party help in the competition, just as long as everyone knows the extent of the help so his actual work can be judged accordingly.

As far as downloading a battery holder and printing it, it seems the same as buying a battery holder to me. It’s just another way of shopping. Again, I’m good with it as long as they don’t present it as work they did.

A good comparison there Josh. It is kinda like ‘buying’ one and using that in a way. I hadn’t thought of it like that – and is why I ask Smile – I’m ignorant to the whole thing Facepalm
And sincere apologies for doing this in alpg’s thread Facepalm , it just kinda happened, I’m so sorry! I’ll say no more Facepalm

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It’s alpg88’s thread, so my apologies too if we are hassling him with unwanted notifications Smile

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Also, most open source 3D models have a license agreement that has a bare minimum of an “attribution” requirement. This means using them requires you to include your source in any documentation.

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Joshk wrote:
Something else to point out is that 3D printed parts are rarely solid plastic. And even if they were, plastic cracks and melts when you start modifying it. You usually can’t fix mistakes with drills, dremels, and grinders. You go back to the PC, fix it, and do another print.

Could you please elaborate on these mistakes?
I remember your build as something that was (mostly?) problem free. Is this because you’ve made so many errors before and are now experienced? Or maybe there were mistakes but you didn’t mention them or I missed them?
Joshk
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Yes, my build was mostly problem free because I have 13 years design experience and 9 years 3D printing experience. Measuring is fiddly, and at times tedious business, but there’s not really any way to share that in a build thread. Smile

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G0OSE wrote:
Another thing that occurred to me during the judging not really knowing anything about 3d printing , was the opportunity for ‘lifting’ designs from other sources on thingiverse etc, modifying those designs/drawings or using parts of them.

For example,take a basic battery holder – 2 × 18650 cells in series with a removable lid – user Jimmyjoebloggs Question downloads one from the net and uses it in his design, he also downloads a switch holder and a few other ‘functional’ non design parts, but the overall outside design and internal structure is completely his own work.

Bearing in mind it would be a brand new category – would you 3d print guys consider the above scenario cheating, or playing fair? right or wrong?

I only ask as I don’t have a 3d printer, so have no idea how often it happens (using bits of others designs etc) only that presumably it does?
It would be nice for whoever runs it next year to have input from the people who use them on the new rules should there be any.
Just thoughts lol! Smile

for me, with my limited 3d design skills it would be easier to make a design from a scratch, than modify an stl, i just can’t edit any stl, even my own, i can only edit 123.dx files, no one shares those files, (prbly no one uses 123design now, just like no one uses win xp, lol) you can only find stl files on thingiverse, i actually thought of getting a battery holder file there, but then figured it may be against the rules, so i designed my own, much simpler. no springs or contacts of any kind.

to answer your question, i would consider it cheating, or at least not fair. we already have reasonable allowance, like drivers, optics, leds, cells, hardware, now if people start getting some work done by someone else, that won’t be fair competition. but i’m no judge, and do not make rules, it is just my opinion

alpg88
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Joshk wrote:
It’s alpg88’s thread, so my apologies too if we are hassling him with unwanted notifications Smile Beer
i do not care, it outlived its intended purpose, flood away, i do not get any notifications,
Joshk
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Yes, alpg88 brings up another good point about files. The STL files everyone shares online are just the part’s surface, not the original file. If it doesn’t fit as-is, you are mostly S.O.L.
For that reason I never download anything from the internet. It always results in wasted plastic and time for me.
I draw everything from scratch. Then if the measurements are off, no problem, I just edit my Solidworks file.

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Let’s continue this discussion over here:

Old Lumens Flashlight Challenge 2019 >> http://budgetlightforum.com/node/70105?page=8#comment-1642553

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