Coronavirus **personal experiences** thread

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JaredM
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I won’t draw this out into a debate here out of respect for SB, but I hope people can see that all of this disagreement and now hostility between ‘sides’ really comes down to who people trust.

I believe you are a good teacher and practitioner of science, but I feel this — “Multiple serious issues in the same area, no. Not the slightest chance that I will go for that, this is non-information.” — is really not a good approach.

What if there is? Who can say that it’s not true? Sure, at this point there’s no official diagnosis and assignment of causation, but you’re saying that if this becomes ‘evidence’ after some set of processes, you’ll deny it?

More troublesome is the scenario in which the bias that’s displayed here is also taken by the physicians that are to care for and assess the alleged victims of the clotting and then conclude they are coincidental. This is textbook definition of a bad scientific process.

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Lightbringer wrote:
Quote:
blah blah blah

Two situations:

— I haven’t seen any of those ill-effects in myself or anyone I know, so I believe the official say-so that ill-effects are statistically insignificant.

— I have seen ill-effects up close and personal with people I know, and that contradicts the official say-so, so I’ll believe them over the official line.

Why does there have to be a firefight over that? Live and let live, blah blah blah… Kumbaya.

 

One similar personal example I have is with cat-treats. My cats are rather finicky, so I wanted to get some treats to maybe bribe them into eating, whatever. Oh, you thought catnip was like cat-crack, those treats are like crystal meth. Mine climb over me, knock me down, and rifle through my pockets looking for ‘em.

Before I even read anything about them, I noticed that since I’ve been giving them any, they’ve gotten unusually aggressive to each other and even to me. They used to play, chase each other around, run around the house, bitch-slap each other but no claws, but while one might swat at the other, they never got into any knock-down-drag-out fights. Since the treats, I’ve been yelling at them to break it up, and tossing crumpled-up paper at them to get their attention, even physically getting between them to get ‘em apart. One gets a bug up his ass about something, and they both go at it.

Then, I was reading reviews on the treats, and whaddya know, some cats get aggressive! Those things are sold left’n‘right, cats love ‘em, and people are generally happy. But I’ve seen both cats (not just one), get itchin’ for a fight. Even when I go to scritch one, out of nowhere… swat!… with claws out.

I’m weaning ‘em off the treats, giving some to the outside cats (hopefully not so much that they go killing each other), but once this jug is gone, that’s it. No more.

I don’t want anyone arguing with me about whether/not those treats “make” cats aggressive. I don’t care if you have 20 cats who make whole meals of those treats and still hold hands and sing the Meow Mix™ song together. All I care about is what I personally observed in my cats. I’ll respect your opinion and observations, and I expect the same in return.

I haven’t seen anyone in this thread saying that we should believe the official pronouncements of any government or scientific organization just because we haven’t personally seen people claim to have bad side effects from a vaccine. What some of us have said is that we don’t assume that a health problem reported after receiving a vaccine was caused by the vaccine. Showing a correlation between two events (they occur at around the same time) isn’t the same as showing that one event causes the other.

In addition to that, I don’t believe the CDC or the National Institutes of Health has been making statements about the vaccines and telling us to believe the statements because they are “official say-so.” They are backing up their recommendations with facts derived from the best scientific studies and clinical evidence they have at the time. I saw Dr. Fauci on television today trying to explain the evidence behind new recommendations from the CDC.

I apologize to anyone I offended by expressing my opinion, but if others’ opinions are to be respected, then mine should be also.

JaredM: can you point out the comment(s) you are referring to, suggesting that someone would ignore evidence of a causal connection between a vaccine and serious side-effects? I admit that I can’t find it.

"However vast the darkness, we must supply our own light." - Stanley Kubrick

JaredM
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I did in my last post. I’m trying to not turn this into a poo slinging debate, which is why I didn’t even highlight or credit the quote. A bunch of us in this thread have been on BLF a looong time and many I respect deeply. It’s tough because I see some very dangerous patterns emerging in society over the last year and it now seems like folks are just callusing into their opinions and emotions are driving ‘science’. When I see these trends repeated here it really disappoints me.

I don’t celebrate it, but I recognize that we live in a world where evil exists, people lie, and many people suffer unfairly. We all know that at ANY point in history – a snapshot in time – there is a mix of good, incompetent, and downright evil people in positions of power. Now is one of those times as well. I don’t give my trust easily, and especially to those with something to gain from misleading me/us. Skepticism, astuteness, and critical thinking has never been more important.

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I agree with you on your last post, JaredM Smile

The reason why I joined the conversation is because of a tendency that I see happening a lot, and which is not helping fighting the pandemic:

When I get confused on what information to trust I look further away, I look up the most trustworthy sources (there is a selection of quality newspapers that already go a long way) and find my answers, I admit that my scientific background helps sifting the good from the crap.

But what many others do when they get confused what information to trust, they start looking closer and closer to home, trusting only people they know personally, and their stories. I think the reason for this behaviour is ancient human biology doing its thing (I’m a biologist btw), which at one time for many problems was a very adequate response, but in todays complex global world those reflexes are rather unhelpful to solve our problems.

My brute statistical logic tells me that close friends and relatives (and the random person on social media who acts personal) probably are not the experts with the right answer if difficult problems need solving, and professionals (scientists, docters, yes even governmental organisations) further away are the ones to listen to, not because they are always right, but they are way more likely to be right.

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I agree that we want to avoid a poo-slinging debate. However, a poo-slinging debate is inevitable when we start accusing each other of saying things we did not say. I still do not see any posted statements in favor of ignoring evidence of a causal connection between a vaccine and side effects.

"However vast the darkness, we must supply our own light." - Stanley Kubrick

sb56637
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JaredM wrote:
I won’t draw this out into a debate here out of respect for SB, but I hope people can see that all of this disagreement and now hostility between ‘sides’ really comes down to who people trust.

Very very true. And justifying which side somebody is on very quickly takes the conversation down a rabbit hole of social, political, scientific, and religious considerations, which, as true as they may be, have no place on a multi-national flashlight forum.

Lightbringer wrote:
I don’t want anyone arguing with me about whether/not those treats “make” cats aggressive. I don’t care if you have 20 cats who make whole meals of those treats and still hold hands and sing the Meow Mix™ song together. All I care about is what I personally observed in my cats. I’ll respect your opinion and observations, and I expect the same in return.

Well said. And if that subject turns controversial, then at least on this forum I’ll ask people to simply reserve their opinions on cat treats.

sb56637 wrote:
As always, my usual disclaimer applies: I am not attempting to label this topic as false or accurate information, nor am I declaring this issue as unimportant; it simply shouldn’t be debated on this forum. Thanks again.

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earthman wrote:
This is what get’s me the most, some folk still won’t listen or take any notice even when other’s are reporting of real life/personal cases.

They probably do, but can’t conclude anything from it. Doctors hopefully listen and report such cases so we can have statistical data indicating a possible risk. It was this data that let me reject AZ and wait for B/Pf.

Next Wednesday I’ll get my first shot Party .

Smile, you cannot kill them all.

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I was vaccinated mid March
now Im wondering if it is safe to travel out of state to visit family..

seems maybe yes:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/fully-vaccinated-here-is-exactly-what-...

“grandparents who are vaccinated can interact with grandchildren”

“fully vaccinated travelers do not need to get tested or self-quarantine before or after domestic travel.”

“The idea that states are telling people that they don’t need to wear masks … at a time where the situation is still very tenuous, that’s very concerning,”

——
what is not clear to me, is How LONG does my vaccination protect me?

raccoon city
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jon_slider wrote:

what is not clear to me, is How LONG does my vaccination protect me?

From what I hear on the news, the COVID-19 vaccines haven't been around long enough for us to know how long they will protect us.

We'll probably need a booster shot 6-12 months after we are fully vaccinated.

earthman
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NorthernHarrier wrote:
earthman wrote:

No rumours I’m afraid, I personally know a few of the people who he is talking about too! We live in the same area.

This is what get’s me the most, some folk still won’t listen or take any notice even when other’s are reporting of real life/personal cases.

Our government in the UK openly talks about these vaccines being on trial until 2023 so as far as I’m concerned, they are still more experimental than not,….if you still want to take these jabs and be a human ‘guinea pig’ then that’s up to you, I’m certainly not!

I think the point djozz was making generally is that the anecdotal reports about several people getting blood clots in your area are not in any way proof that the vaccines caused the problem in any or in all of those people. It could be a coincidence that those people had those problems at around the same time, and it might have had nothing to do with the vaccines.

The clinical trials of the approved vaccines were actually large, and so many millions of people have now received the vaccines that any serious problems would have appeared by now. There’s been a lot of reporting about the alleged blood clots reported in women who have received the J&J vaccine, and that causes fear that leads to confusion over the facts. In reality, the actual incidence of reported blood clots with the J&J vaccine is about what we would expect to occur in the general population without any vaccines being administered, so it isn’t established that the vaccines caused the clots reported in vaccinated people.

I can’t help but laugh at the word you used, ‘coincidence’. Yeah, it could be, but what if it’s not? Look, even leaders of a few european countries have stopped or put that Astra jab on hold over recent weeks/months, what does that tell you? I sincerely hope that I’m wrong here but I reckon that these blood clots etc are just the tip of the iceberg because there are no long term studies of these mRNA vaccines rattling around in a human’s body period, wait until a years time at least, ideally five or ten would be better of course but let’s just see if anything else comes to light within 12 months before thinking that they are indeed safe to take.

kat
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Can someone explain this to me:
some countries including mine have a pandemic curfew from 8 PM, or 9 PM until morning.
I fail to understand the reasoning behind this.
How does imposing curfews at nights limit the virus spread?
On the other hand, after such curfews now I am forced to do my groceries at day time and now it’s incredibly crowded! Before this I always did my groceries at night specifically because there were less people and I wouldn’t have to wait 30 min to 1 hour at the cashier. Note that this is not an exaggeration. I literally have to sit in line 1 hour to just to pay.

earthman
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Unheard wrote:
earthman wrote:
This is what get’s me the most, some folk still won’t listen or take any notice even when other’s are reporting of real life/personal cases.

They probably do, but can’t conclude anything from it. Doctors hopefully listen and report such cases so we can have statistical data indicating a possible risk. It was this data that let me reject AZ and wait for B/Pf.

Next Wednesday I’ll get my first shot Party .

What struck me the most and raised a big ‘red flag’ a long time ago now is the censorship of other doctors and scientists who have raised concerns over these jabs,…for example professor Mike Yeadon, this guy actually worked at Pfizer for crying out loud, you would think that he’s concerns/points are worth exploring at least.

To me something really stinks here, what are the powers at be and main media so scared about, why don’t they want debate/information to get out to the general population?

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Quote:
some countries including mine have a pandemic curfew from 8 PM, or 9 PM until morning.

Illegal parties happen at night, it’s easier for the government to impose a curfew than finding the illegal parties. Also excessive drinking that may lead to rule breaking is more likely at night. However IMHO a curfew at 9PM makes no sense, one at 11PM or midnight should prevent most parties, but that would depend on each country customs.

My country has no curfew (bars and restaurants must still close at midnight), but case counts and deaths recently skyrocketed, so we are not longer an example to follow. Sad

earthman
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kat wrote:
Can someone explain this to me: some countries including mine have a pandemic curfew from 8 PM, or 9 PM until morning. I fail to understand the reasoning behind this. How does imposing curfews at nights limit the virus spread? On the other hand, after such curfews now I am forced to do my groceries at day time and now it’s incredibly crowded! Before this I always did my groceries at night specifically because there were less people and I wouldn’t have to wait 30 min to 1 hour at the cashier. Note that this is not an exaggeration. I literally have to sit in line 1 hour to just to pay.

Like so many of their other restrictions, that don’t make no sense I agree, well not when it comes to the spread of a virus. If you research the Great Reset and watch/listen to what they openly say, these restrictions are all about controlling the population, closing down small businesses, curbing air travel etc etc.

sb56637
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sb56637 wrote:

I think we can keep it open if everyone learns from which have been the hot button topics thus far and carefully avoiding them. Specifically:

  • Comments on Trump’s handling and assessment of the situation
  • Comments on the efficacy or inefficacy of the government response in specific regions or countries
  • Comments on the origin of SARS-CoV-2
  • Discussions on whether vaccines are good or bad
  • Discussions on whether using masks is good or bad
  • Anything that is widely considered to be a conspiracy theory
  • Discussions about the validity/accuracy of reported COVID statistics

 

@earthman: Please drop the subject and avoid this topic from now on.

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Lightbringer
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kat wrote:
Can someone explain this to me: some countries including mine have a pandemic curfew from 8 PM, or 9 PM until morning. I fail to understand the reasoning behind this. How does imposing curfews at nights limit the virus spread?

‘Cause politicians are idiots? (Yeah, I know, it’s stating the obvious.)

I remember during the Gas Crisis™ in the ’70s, you were limited to something ridiculous like 2gal or gasoline per trip. So instead of gassing up once during the week to get back’n‘forth to work (no such thing as working remotely, working from home, or telecommuting, back then), you’d instead have to sit in long lines on odd/even days (and that’s if you could manage 2 days’ worth of travel back’n‘forth on that), letting the car idle all that time or just killing your starter and battery every time you moved up a notch. Worst case, you’d have to wait on those lines in the morning before work, then at home at night when you’d get back. Or who knows, maybe get your 2gal then head right back to the end of the line for 2 more. Ridiculous.

They probably think that “illegal gatherings” are going on at night, or that everyone should only be out during business hours and then stay home, when in fact the Unintended Consequences™ that even an astute 6yo would grasp, would dictate that now everyone who could do things in the sparseness of night, gets crowded into a tighter spot with everyone else who has to go shopping during the day.

Remember one-way supermarket aisles? If you forget something, rather’n going back half an aisle to grab it, you’d have to loop around through another aisle and then back, encountering even more people than you’d otherwise go past.

Politicians are like managers who think only in soundbites, and anything more complex than a dozen or so 1-syllable words ends up when them just glazing over and wanting a “simple” answer. So if it sounds good, it therefore must be good, when anyone with more’n 2 functional braincells to rub together can see how disastrous it might be.

In short, it’s business as usual. Sick

 

Oh, quick example. The house on the corner with their usual warm-weather luaus where everyone practically licks each other on the face, would still be having their parties. If there were any nighttime curfews imposed here, they wouldn’t stop having parties, but just having their guests crammed inside overnight for a sleepover, then leaving the next morning. Can you say “superspreader event”? I knew you could. LOL

Funny part? Having them stay over would likely be perfectly legal. It’s that going home at night that would be illegal.

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sb56637 wrote:
Lightbringer wrote:
I don’t want anyone arguing with me about whether/not those treats “make” cats aggressive. I don’t care if you have 20 cats who make whole meals of those treats and still hold hands and sing the Meow Mix™ song together. All I care about is what I personally observed in my cats. I’ll respect your opinion and observations, and I expect the same in return.

Well said. And if that subject turns controversial, then at least on this forum I’ll ask people to simply reserve their opinions on cat treats.

Awwwww,,,,,,, and I had several of them chambered up and ready to go…… Beer Beer Beer

Im not a Pessimist …. just an Optimist with a lot of experience


A little John Prine

sb56637
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Coscar wrote:
sb56637 wrote:
Lightbringer wrote:
I don’t want anyone arguing with me about whether/not those treats “make” cats aggressive. I don’t care if you have 20 cats who make whole meals of those treats and still hold hands and sing the Meow Mix™ song together. All I care about is what I personally observed in my cats. I’ll respect your opinion and observations, and I expect the same in return.

Well said. And if that subject turns controversial, then at least on this forum I’ll ask people to simply reserve their opinions on cat treats.

Awwwww,,,,,,, and I had several of them chambered up and ready to go…… Beer Beer Beer

What, cats or cat treats? Wink

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Coscar
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sb56637 wrote:
Coscar wrote:
sb56637 wrote:
Lightbringer wrote:
I don’t want anyone arguing with me about whether/not those treats “make” cats aggressive. I don’t care if you have 20 cats who make whole meals of those treats and still hold hands and sing the Meow Mix™ song together. All I care about is what I personally observed in my cats. I’ll respect your opinion and observations, and I expect the same in return.

Well said. And if that subject turns controversial, then at least on this forum I’ll ask people to simply reserve their opinions on cat treats.

Awwwww,,,,,,, and I had several of them chambered up and ready to go…… Beer Beer Beer

What, cats or cat treats? Wink

Opinions……… Smile Beer

Im not a Pessimist …. just an Optimist with a lot of experience


A little John Prine

jon_slider
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LOL! Thumbs Up

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I caught it. I fought it. I survived it. I picked up the pieces and moved forward.

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sb56637
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DBSAR wrote:
I caught it. I fought it. I survived it. I picked up the pieces and moved forward.

You were one of the first ones here on BLF to catch it as far as I know. Really glad you pulled through! Great to see you here DBSAR.

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Hank33
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Just don’t take Zeneca. Smile

northbeard
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Location: West Coast, eh?

Had my first Astra-Zeneca jab two weeks ago. No impact to me other than a slightly sore upper arm for a day.

Would it have been nice to get the ‘Cadillac version’ Pfizer vaccine? Maybe. Was I willing to wait potentially months more to get it? No.

My $0.02: Any vaccine you get is a good one.

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northbeard wrote:

Had my first Astra-Zeneca jab two weeks ago.

I wasn't aware that Astra-Zeneca was approved in the U.S. yet.

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raccoon city wrote:

northbeard wrote:

Had my first Astra-Zeneca jab two weeks ago.


I wasn’t aware that Astra-Zeneca was approved in the U.S. yet.

I don’t think USA is the only country with a west coast.

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ggf31416 wrote:

I don't think USA is the only country with a west coast.

Oops!  :FACEPALM:

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raccoon city wrote:

ggf31416 wrote:

I don’t think USA is the only country with a west coast.


Oops!  alt=:" />


LOL, that could happen to anyone, RC.
Anyone American that is.
We’re pretty sure when “west coast” is mentioned, it’s us. Evil

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Del Gue

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sb56637 wrote:
DBSAR wrote:
I caught it. I fought it. I survived it. I picked up the pieces and moved forward.
You were one of the first ones here on BLF to catch it as far as I know. Really glad you pulled through! Great to see you here DBSAR.

Thanks SB. It was a rough few weeks, and happened as i was preparing to move across the country. But i fought it, and still here to keep enjoying what i do!

That Canadian flashlight guy & Lantern Guru -Den / DBSARlight

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DBSAR wrote:
sb56637 wrote:
DBSAR wrote:
I caught it. I fought it. I survived it. I picked up the pieces and moved forward.
You were one of the first ones here on BLF to catch it as far as I know. Really glad you pulled through! Great to see you here DBSAR.

Thanks SB. It was a rough few weeks, and happened as i was preparing to move across the country. But i fought it, and still here to keep enjoying what i do!


Any lingering side effects?

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