13,000 lumens from a single 21700 cell. Yes, it also has normal modes.

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Yokiamy
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texas shooter wrote:
You’ll sound like my kids. Just admit it we’re here because we like bright shinny hand held lights. Some of you posting all the critiques are going to buy it anyway. I’ll probably get it and tell my non flashlight cohorts “It’s takes a Tesla battery and produces 13,000 lumens, as much as 10 headlights.” I’ll have it for grins and giggles for awhile then probably sell it to someone who wants it more.

Exactly !

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Well said

MoreLumens
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mortuus wrote:
SKV89 wrote:
I would love to have a 20k pocketable light even if it is only good for 7 seconds. “Turbo” is not meant to be sustained.

so why the need for so much lumens in the blink of an eye ?

I like to have turbo modes when I need to see bigger areas at once in darkness like when camping, exploring caves and fields etc. Usually flooder for those occasions. Easy to take good pictures and just for fun.
We all love light right? What amount is enough is the big question, but well more is always more. Wink

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Personally 10k+ lumens that are as floody as they’ll be from this light isn’t any more impressive than half that number or less.

I’d take the single emitter version of this (DM70 IIRC?) that still is high output and with a MUCH more balanced beam any day.

Plus there are options with similar output, size and much better light quality anyway. I just don’t see the appeal, especially for this price.

richbuff
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MoreLumens said: "I like to have turbo modes when I need to see bigger areas at once in darkness like when camping, exploring caves and fields etc. Usually flooder for those occasions. ..."

That is almost exactly where I am at. I like to use Turbo mode for two seconds, when I need to quickly scan a large area, mostly width, but also some depth. The more raw power the better, to get the width of the area, and also some depth. Being that this is my situation, I want this in the smallest size flashlight possible, because I am only using Turbo for two seconds.

Because I am an enthusiast about this, getting max power flood and some throw from the smallest light for two seconds, to quickly scan an area, from the smallest size flashlight, I have kept up with recent advances in this area for the past five and a half years. My journey, starting October, 2014:

MMU-X3: 1,600 lumens.

MM15, 5,000 L

Meteor XP-L, 7,500 L

TN36UT, 13,400 L

TK75vn quad 70, 16,000 L

X45vn, 25,000 L

Next, recently, I started looking for The Most Powerful Single Cell Light, to do the same thing: Quickly scan large area for two seconds, from the smallest size flashlight:

TM9K, 9,500 L

NSX53, 9,000 L

D4V2vn quad W2, 4,000 L

FW4vn quad W2, 3,850 L

Next, we have this: Single 21700, triple 70.2, 13,000 L, for two second burst to quickly scan the largest area with the smallest size flashlight.

Yes, it has normal modes for normal runtime and normal heat generation, for use that involves longer than two second quick scan.

I have 28 high performance lights, because I like to help support the folks who provide recent advances in things that I like: Very small, small, medium, large and very large dedicated throwers, power throwers, depth flooders and power  flooders.

 

Price/cost? I don't own any "Jewelry" class lights or any USA made custom or semi-custom items or any exotic metals lights, even though I like to look at pics of them, and read posts about them.

Rev 22:15

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New photos about the Imalent MS03 you find here Smile

https://www.gatzetec.de/Taschenlampen/Imalent/imalent-ms03-led-taschenla...

Stay healty my friends

Thorsten
Gatzetecteam.de
flashlights for friends

BurningPlayd0h
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13,000lm, 324m FL1 is 2cd/lm. Id really just rather take a light that has more reach and move my wrist a tiny bit more. Super floody lights are much more useful up close. That much output from a floody light just blasts away your vision from how bright everything up close is.

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A little OT, but has anyone come up with an active heat management system in a flashlight that’s also capable of achieving IPX8? I’m thinking of some kind of internal sealed liquid cooling system, but not sure if it would be effective enough for the typical pill size. Other thought is an air channel embedded in the surface of the head with two exit holes, and micro fans mounted inside with gaskets to shield the wiring.

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xevious wrote:
A little OT, but has anyone come up with an active heat management system in a flashlight that’s also capable of achieving IPX8? I’m thinking of some kind of internal sealed liquid cooling system, but not sure if it would be effective enough for the typical pill size. Other thought is an air channel embedded in the surface of the head with two exit holes, and micro fans mounted inside with gaskets to shield the wiring.

“liquid cooling” does not magically make things cooler by just adding liquid.
Liquid cooling works by using liquid to move the heat away to radiators.
Flashlights are way to small to have any kind of radiator other than the body itself and the fins on it.
Since the LED is literally inches away from the body and fins, the metal the flashlight is made of already carries the heat from the LED to the fins for dissipation.
The area of the fins and body is what determines the cooling, not whether the heat is brought there by liquid or metal.
Also, a pump would have to be extremely small to fit in a flashlight and also adds another point of failure.
Cooling can be improved by using copper instead of aluminum and by increasing the outer area of the flashlight by adding more fins.
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richbuff wrote:

MoreLumens said: “I like to have turbo modes when I need to see bigger areas at once in darkness like when camping, exploring caves and fields etc. Usually flooder for those occasions. …”


That is almost exactly where I am at. I like to use Turbo mode for two seconds, when I need to quickly scan a large area, mostly width, but also some depth. The more raw power the better, to get the width of the area, and also some depth. Being that this is my situation, I want this in the smallest size flashlight possible, because I am only using Turbo for two seconds.


Because I am an enthusiast about this, getting max power flood and some throw from the smallest light for two seconds, to quickly scan an area, from the smallest size flashlight, I have kept up with recent advances in this area for the past five and a half years. My journey, starting October, 2014:


MMU-X3: 1,600 lumens.


MM15, 5,000 L


Meteor XP-L, 7,500 L


TN36UT, 13,400 L


TK75vn quad 70, 16,000 L


X45vn, 25,000 L


Next, recently, I started looking for The Most Powerful Single Cell Light, to do the same thing: Quickly scan large area for two seconds, from the smallest size flashlight:


TM9K, 9,500 L


NSX53, 9,000 L


D4V2vn quad W2, 4,000 L


FW4vn quad W2, 3,850 L


Next, we have this: Single 21700, triple 70.2, 13,000 L, for two second burst to quickly scan the largest area with the smallest size flashlight.


Yes, it has normal modes for normal runtime and normal heat generation, for use that involves longer than two second quick scan.


I have 28 high performance lights, because I like to help support the folks who provide recent advances in things that I like: Very small, small, medium, large and very large dedicated throwers, power throwers, depth flooders and power  flooders.


 


Price/cost? I don’t own any “Jewelry” class lights or any USA made custom or semi-custom items or any exotic metals lights, even though I like to look at pics of them, and read posts about them.


There are 2 new flashlights you might want to know about:

Emisar D4V2 8 LED mule 7,400 L estimated $45
Noctigon KR4 8 LED mule 7,400 L estimated $55

Not sure if anyone has real world lumen measurements yet. 18650 format. 18350 tubes are available, though you will not get as many lumens out of a 18350 battery.

http://budgetlightforum.com/comment/1643423#comment-1643423

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if nobody bought this kind of useless lights they would understand not many are interested…. and they are dangerous too… this one sure is stupid designed and stupid dangerous

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mortuus wrote:
if nobody bought this kind of useless lights they would understand not many are interested…. and they are dangerous too… this one sure is stupid designed and stupid dangerous

Have you personally used this specific model? Doesn’t seem too far off from the single cell 3x XHP50.2 that Lumintop and Astrolux are both developing.

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JordanZHP wrote:
mortuus wrote:
if nobody bought this kind of useless lights they would understand not many are interested…. and they are dangerous too… this one sure is stupid designed and stupid dangerous

Have you personally used this specific model? Doesn’t seem too far off from the single cell 3x XHP50.2 that Lumintop and Astrolux are both developing.

No but we’ve used lights with twice the mass and the same effective size/number of emitters and know how hot those get in the blink of an eye. Not to mention the stress that sort of current load puts on every component including the battery.

JordanZHP
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BurningPlayd0h wrote:
JordanZHP wrote:
mortuus wrote:
if nobody bought this kind of useless lights they would understand not many are interested…. and they are dangerous too… this one sure is stupid designed and stupid dangerous

Have you personally used this specific model? Doesn’t seem too far off from the single cell 3x XHP50.2 that Lumintop and Astrolux are both developing.

No but we’ve used lights with twice the mass and the same effective size/number of emitters and know how hot those get in the blink of an eye. Not to mention the stress that sort of current load puts on every component including the battery.

I understand what you’re saying but I still appreciate something new that hasn’t been done before. If new designs aren’t tried won’t things get stale? Of course this light won’t appeal to everyone and I can respect that. Personally I think it’s neat but I’d prefer a NW tint and I would like to see some runtime graphs to verify the claims.

I think a Samsung 30T or 40T would do ok pushing 3x XHP70’s. Heat and component health are a concern and hopefully Imalent took that into account. As others mentioned, having the OPTION to use turbo is a nice feature, if your goal was only run this at max lumens all the time another option would be better.

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I got a "measured" 11,000 lumens out of a compact modded Amutorch X9 with triple XHP50.2's on A GOLISI - should do better on a 21700 30T or 40T.

 

JordanZHP
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Nice Tom! How’s the beam? Does XHP70.2 theoretically output more lumens than XHP50.2?

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Well 11K is close to the max from 3 XHP50.2 3V's, but for 3 XHP70.2's, ~25K or so (maybe a little higher) is the max, so 13K is only about 50% of max. I was pulling about 30 amps from one cell. The XHP70.2 should do better with efficiency and output, but of course they are 6V or 12V, so you need a boost driver for a single cell. Would be interesting if they came out with a true 3V version of the XHP70.2, then a straight FET driver would do. For the MS30, it is an interesting production light, being so compact, single cell,and also how that are getting that much in amps out of a boost driver. Not sure if Imalent's lumens are accurate though - it's probably over rated on this one. Looks like not available yet, so we'll see if they can really do it.

Of course of you did something like this: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/47857 for the XHP70.2's, it's a much simpler FET driver.

Also there are Chinese variants of 3V XHP70 clones out there, example: https://www.aliexpress.com/i/33016798142.html?spm=2114.12057483.0.0.283abc90UwxPR9, but looks like much lower lumens.

 

JordanZHP
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Tom E wrote:

Well 11K is close to the max from 3 XHP50.2 3V’s, but for 3 XHP70.2’s, ~25K or so (maybe a little higher) is the max, so 13K is only about 50% of max. I was pulling about 30 amps from one cell. The XHP70.2 should do better with efficiency and output, but of course they are 6V or 12V, so you need a boost driver for a single cell. Would be interesting if they came out with a true 3V version of the XHP70.2, then a straight FET driver would do. For the MS30, it is an interesting production light, being so compact, single cell,and also how that are getting that much in amps out of a boost driver. Not sure if Imalent’s lumens are accurate though – it’s probably over rated on this one. Looks like not available yet, so we’ll see if they can really do it.


Of course of you did something like this: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/47857 for the XHP70.2’s, it’s a much simpler FET driver.


Also there are Chinese variants of 3V XHP70 clones out there, example: https://www.aliexpress.com/i/33016798142.html?spm=2114.12057483.0.0.283abc90UwxPR9, but looks like much lower lumens.


 

Thanks for the detailed reply and information!

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JordanZHP wrote:
BurningPlayd0h wrote:
JordanZHP wrote:
mortuus wrote:
if nobody bought this kind of useless lights they would understand not many are interested…. and they are dangerous too… this one sure is stupid designed and stupid dangerous

Have you personally used this specific model? Doesn’t seem too far off from the single cell 3x XHP50.2 that Lumintop and Astrolux are both developing.

No but we’ve used lights with twice the mass and the same effective size/number of emitters and know how hot those get in the blink of an eye. Not to mention the stress that sort of current load puts on every component including the battery.

I understand what you’re saying but I still appreciate something new that hasn’t been done before. If new designs aren’t tried won’t things get stale? Of course this light won’t appeal to everyone and I can respect that. Personally I think it’s neat but I’d prefer a NW tint and I would like to see some runtime graphs to verify the claims.

I think a Samsung 30T or 40T would do ok pushing 3x XHP70’s. Heat and component health are a concern and hopefully Imalent took that into account. As others mentioned, having the OPTION to use turbo is a nice feature, if your goal was only run this at max lumens all the time another option would be better.

It’s not really new. NSX3 and TM9K are extremely similar. In fact if I were getting a light like this I’d much prefer the XHP50.2 for a more usable beam at lower levels since you can’t break 10,000ish lumens on any single-cell light right now anyway and sheer output is the biggest reason to go with the larger emitters.

JordanZHP
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BurningPlayd0h, Tom E measured an estimated 11,000 lumens on a single cell with his modded Amutorch X9.

The MS03 is smaller than both the NSX3 and TM9K in all dimensions, not quite pocketable but close! Of course this won’t do as well with the heat. Hopefully it actually is close to the 13,000 claimed lumens.

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Problem is still so much lumens even if emitters didnt emitted and heat whatsoever u would still get terrible battery from just 1 battery… u are paying lots of money for lumens that last a very very short while on turbo, to me its waste of money and lumens… better if they did a soda can host instead and pushed that much it would be better.. Imalent just likes to shock their lights with huge number lumens on papers.. nothing more…..

maybe matt will get a review sample would be interesting see how it performs irl..

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Too much over thinking. You get a flashlight that has 4 modes; 150 lumens, 800 lumens, 1300 lumens and 3000. 3000 can be done for less than 6 watts per LED. Oh and by the way we can get an 8000 high for a minute or 13,000 turbo for 45 seconds as a bonus. That’s not far of from the modders dreams. You could get the first 4 modes and a little less high and turbo with XHP50.2’s having slightly better throw. Ops now I’m over thinking it. It’s a small 21700 flashlight with 3 LEDs, 4 nice modes and 2 hot rod settings.

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Enderman wrote:
“liquid cooling” does not magically make things cooler by just adding liquid.
Liquid cooling works by using liquid to move the heat away to radiators.
“magically” is a big derogatory. There are coolant liquids designed to help dissipate heat. I have seen computer motherboards that use a cooling system in conjunction with assisted air circulation.

Quote:
Flashlights are way to small to have any kind of radiator other than the body itself and the fins on it.
Since the LED is literally inches away from the body and fins, the metal the flashlight is made of already carries the heat from the LED to the fins for dissipation. The area of the fins and body is what determines the cooling, not whether the heat is brought there by liquid or metal.
Also, a pump would have to be extremely small to fit in a flashlight and also adds another point of failure.
Cooling can be improved by using copper instead of aluminum and by increasing the outer area of the flashlight by adding more fins.
Well, take a look at the Imalent MS12… it has an internal radiator & active cooling fan. Granted, this form factor flashlight is not small by any means, but it’s still hand-held. FWIW, Acebeam X70 in video below has an add-on cooling fan mounted on it.

Of course worth mentioning Imalent’s MS12 successor, the MS18 that also features an active cooling system with fans and allegedly a coolant liquid:

BurningPlayd0h
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xevious wrote:
Enderman wrote:
“liquid cooling” does not magically make things cooler by just adding liquid.
Liquid cooling works by using liquid to move the heat away to radiators.
“magically” is a big derogatory. There are coolant liquids designed to help dissipate heat. I have seen computer motherboards that use a cooling system in conjunction with assisted air circulation.

Quote:
Flashlights are way to small to have any kind of radiator other than the body itself and the fins on it.
Since the LED is literally inches away from the body and fins, the metal the flashlight is made of already carries the heat from the LED to the fins for dissipation. The area of the fins and body is what determines the cooling, not whether the heat is brought there by liquid or metal.
Also, a pump would have to be extremely small to fit in a flashlight and also adds another point of failure.
Cooling can be improved by using copper instead of aluminum and by increasing the outer area of the flashlight by adding more fins.
Well, take a look at the Imalent MS12… it has an internal radiator & active cooling fan. Granted, this form factor flashlight is not small by any means, but it’s still hand-held. FWIW, Acebeam X70 in video below has an add-on cooling fan mounted on it.

Of course worth mentioning Imalent’s MS12 successor, the MS18 that also features an active cooling system with fans and allegedly a coolant liquid:

Liquid cooling systems in computers work because they pull the heat away to a much larger radiator in a different part of the computer thats usually right at the vents, vs a heatsink and fan circulating that heat through the case.

The fans in the Imalent lights work the same way, actively blowing heat off of a heatsink and out of the light. I really don’t know if a liquid cooling system in something that already relies mostly on conduction and has vents right there at the sink would help. Pulling the heat away from the head to a heatsink and fan setup elsewhere on the light would require a lot of space.

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Heat pipes also incorporate liquid cooling in an unusual way that takes advantage of a phase change. Taking advantage of a phase change is possible, but difficult. Going from solid to liquid would probably be the least difficult. I wouldn’t be surprised if the benefit was so small that it couldn’t be measured reliably outside of laboratory conditions.

The low mode should be lower.

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Ordered one today. Just for fun. May be I will find the way to improve heat dissipation in that monster.

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The FailureMan wrote:
Ordered one today. Just for fun. May be I will find the way to improve heat dissipation in that monster.

okay just be careful, its imalent after all..

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A review of this light was posted by Unix5566 about 24 hours ago in the German forum. I have not yet received the two that I ordered, but that is ok, I ordered as soon as I could when this light was announced. The 21700 battery is removable, and the battery has a USB-C port for charging, which makes the battery longer, so normal unprotected 21700 cells are not long enough to make contact inside the flashlight. Also, the Imalent USB-C rechargeable battery has some type of a special configuration at the top end, so I will be looking to ordering extra Imalent batteries for this light.

Mode spacing looks good, and double click from On or Off for Turbo is something that I like. The reviewer states that the flashlight is very compact for its max output, which is the main idea for me. Normal modes are available for normal runtime and normal heat generation. Briefly, for a second or two or few, to brightly illuminate a large area, is what I will use this light for. I can then throttle back to normal mode after a few second scan of the large area.

Thanks to Unix5566 for his review!

 

By the way, for more than a few weeks, I have noticed that user Imalent has been conspicuous on this forum by his absence. For about two months, he has been very active on another location, but not here. Then, today, I noticed that he is Banned at that other location.  :huh?:

Rev 22:15

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Oh, mine is almost here, in Germany now Beer

richbuff
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Yokiamy wrote:
Oh, mine is almost here, in Germany now :BEER:

 

When you get it, can you tell us about the battery? Please let us know if a solder blob top battery or spring top battery will work in the flashlight.

Please also post about your impressions.

Rev 22:15

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