So this is using an XP-L HD for the throw LED? Why? Should have been XP-L HI, this does not make sense.
You don’t want a too narrow spot though, most people would want something with a wider spread. I’m guessing Wurrkos wanted the spot to blend with the flood.
—
Texas Ace Lumen Tube calibrated with maukka lights
Acebeam H30 is with headstrap and battery +200g and Nitecore HC35 also 21700 headlamp is with same stuff over +210g. Lumeniac said in his review that HD20 is 208g so it doesnt seem to be lightest or heaviest in its own category. Aint PL47 G2 a bit shy from 200g fully loaded like 180-190g?
Aint PL47 G2 a bit shy from 200g fully loaded like 180-190g?
Just measured my last one in stock, its 86g unloaded and 156g incl 50E battery.
Nice. Headstraps are something like 30-40g. Was that included?
Ah, no, just the PL47 and battery. Okay, so not too bad then if that’s what you’re including. I may buy one and see what I think depending on what I’m quoted as a dealer. It just doesn’t look so appealing though
—
Texas Ace Lumen Tube calibrated with maukka lights
Serious question: What would you like to be changed in terms of HD20's look? Or is it just the overall impression because it is bigger in size?
With the right kind of advertising HD20 may have some more potential. I believe there are more applications than using it attached to the forehead only.
This has taken some effort and yes it’s a little different and not perfect but I am sure Lux and Barry will keep working on making it just the way you like it.
This has taken some effort and yes it’s a little different and not perfect but I am sure Lux and Barry will keep working on making it just the way you like it.
Yeah, so much effort to made cheapest PWM driver with few components and no stabilization . They made much more complicated charging circuit with most primitive led driver and dishonored one off the best UI’s
I am confident that sooner or later both Sofirn and Wurkkos will also have flashlights with more efficient drivers (buck-boost, CC+DD, <you name it>). They have proven already that they are able to make them, e.g. Sofirn's SP33 V2 with the 6V XHP50.2 or C8G with the 12V XHP35 HI. So, my guess is that developing more complex drivers require higher (material) costs and more time for individual development. Unlike some other manufacturers they are very flexible and quick in developing new models for very reasonable prices. Sofirn and Wurkkos are in tough competition with other manufacturers and brands, so pricing is a key element.
With that said, it needs both patience and careful awareness raising to convince them of the benefits that offer what we call "fully regulated" drivers. I mentioned this more than once already. The regular budget customer will probably not care about diminishing brightness with a depleting battery as this is still very common in most (budget) flashlights. These costumers however care a lot about a competitive and affordable prices. As much as I hate to say it: BLF is not the majority of customers. But we can try to help manufacturers improve their lights step by step and get closer to what we would call "the perfect solution".
Personally, I would like the idea of having two lines, a budget product line and a premium product line...
IMHO, premium means...
complex high efficiency drivers with "full" stabilization
premium anodization (at least HA-III or better)
top grade (CNC) manufacturing and smooth finish (e.g. chamfered edges)
hand-picked top flux and chromaticity bins
high quality packaging (see Olight's card board boxes for reference)
5+ years of warranty
Certainly, all this comes with a totally different price.
Yeah, I’ve been fighting for simple UI’s because the majority of consumers aren’t going to want Anduril on their flashlights. Anduril is great but the average user hates it, my stock with Anduril is extremely hard to sell. I’ve had an Astrolux EC01 in stock for over 12 months, everyone wants simplicity.
I agree that not many care about regulated drivers at this price point, I certainly don’t
The C8G was a big fail though since the Turbo had a step down timer of 30 seconds, I don’t know what they were thinking.
—
Texas Ace Lumen Tube calibrated with maukka lights
i see nothing wrong with simple driver, average user won’t know the difference, they want simple reliable light, if it loses 5% of battery to heat they do not care, but it is still pretty big and heavy for a headlamp, great 90* flashlight thou.
This competes with a few other dual (spot/flood) headlamps. The Fenix HM65R comes to mind. Weight wise, its not the heaviest in its battery-class. I think it missing a low power red LED that would have been the frosting on the cake, but its half the price of its true competition. I still think that this would make a great mtn.bike light… tune your perfect lighting and put it on the bar or helmet.
I am confident that sooner or later both Sofirn and Wurkkos will also have flashlights with more efficient drivers (buck-boost, CC+DD, <you name it>). They have proven already that they are able to make them, e.g. Sofirn’s SP33 V2 with the 6V XHP50.2 or C8G with the 12V XHP35 HI. So, my guess is that developing more complex drivers require higher (material) costs and more time for individual development. Unlike some other manufacturers they are very flexible and quick in developing new models for very reasonable prices. Sofirn and Wurkkos are in tough competition with other manufacturers and brands, so pricing is a key element.
IMHO, premium means…
premium anodization (at least HA-III or better)
Certainly, all this comes with a totally different price.
I’ve noted that a number of Sofirn flashlights (notably the EDC-sized like the SP31/32 series or SP10 series) tend to have not that good anodization, compared to other similar budget-priced flashlights (in particular, I’m comparing to say the Convoy S2 series) — in my experience, Sofirn’s anodization tends to scratch off more easily than the Convoy’s; so probably that means the anodization used by Sofirn is not as good?
Going back to ‘regulated’ drivers — I’m not that well-versed in electronics, but I like measuring/testing stuff using just basic equipment (I understand this is not enough, since I’m not really a professional) — but aside from the C8G and SP33v2 (early batch) that use regulation — how about the SP32Av2.0? I notice that this model does not use PWM for lower brightness levels (I seem to assume that not using PWM is usually “a bit better”) — almost all other Sofirn flashlights (EDC size) use some form of PWM when set to lower brightness levels, so I find the SP32Av2.0 to be “special” in this regard.
So my question is whether the SP32Av2.0 also using a more “regulated” driver? If so, then Sofirn is able to use a regulated driver for one of the entry-level flashlights..
Boost driver cost in China maybe 3$ and with premium components maybe 5$. From now i will call Convoy a premium flashlight manufacturer ;))
How many of their compact/EDC-style lights have a boost driver? (Hint: the driver is 22mm)
What other brands do, and how much do they cost?
d_t_a wrote:
Lux-Perpetua wrote:
I am confident that sooner or later both Sofirn and Wurkkos will also have flashlights with more efficient drivers (buck-boost, CC+DD, <you name it>). They have proven already that they are able to make them, e.g. Sofirn’s SP33 V2 with the 6V XHP50.2 or C8G with the 12V XHP35 HI. So, my guess is that developing more complex drivers require higher (material) costs and more time for individual development. Unlike some other manufacturers they are very flexible and quick in developing new models for very reasonable prices. Sofirn and Wurkkos are in tough competition with other manufacturers and brands, so pricing is a key element.
IMHO, premium means…
premium anodization (at least HA-III or better)
Certainly, all this comes with a totally different price.
I’ve noted that a number of Sofirn flashlights (notably the EDC-sized like the SP31/32 series or SP10 series) tend to have not that good anodization, compared to other similar budget-priced flashlights (in particular, I’m comparing to say the Convoy S2 series) — in my experience, Sofirn’s anodization tends to scratch off more easily than the Convoy’s; so probably that means the anodization used by Sofirn is not as good?
Going back to ‘regulated’ drivers — I’m not that well-versed in electronics, but I like measuring/testing stuff using just basic equipment (I understand this is not enough, since I’m not really a professional) — but aside from the C8G and SP33v2 (early batch) that use regulation — how about the SP32Av2.0? I notice that this model does not use PWM for lower brightness levels (I seem to assume that not using PWM is usually “a bit better”) — almost all other Sofirn flashlights (EDC size) use some form of PWM when set to lower brightness levels, so I find the SP32Av2.0 to be “special” in this regard.
So my question is whether the SP32Av2.0 also using a more “regulated” driver? If so, then Sofirn is able to use a regulated driver for one of the entry-level flashlights..
Because it’s the 1000th+ time I’ve seen the terms used interchangeably here: Regulation and stabilization are not the same thing. Every flashlight that isn’t pure direct drive is regulated. Not taking a shot at you, but people always seem to make an association between good efficiency and full stabilization which is absolutely not always true.
Serious question: What would you like to be changed in terms of HD20’s look? Or is it just the overall impression because it is bigger in size?
With the right kind of advertising HD20 may have some more potential. I believe there are more applications than using it attached to the forehead only.
I personally don’t really like the design of the overall body, I prefer one with knurling like the SP40. That didn’t stop me from buying one though, I wanted to wait until the SP40 would get updated with type c-c charging functionality but the additional throw/flood/powerbank functionality is something I really liked about this one! Also I assume I might be able to swap the body with another flashlight down the road so yeah
I don’t think they’ve ever heard of quality control…
I received my hd20 last weekend. Unfortunately, the 2 rubber rings of the headband are torn so that it is no longer possible to use the lamp as a headlamp.
There is also some dirt or scratches on both sides of the reflector, but I don’t think it will affect the beam much.I wasn’t able to make any pictures of it, it’s only visible when light is on
Serious question: What would you like to be changed in terms of HD20’s look? Or is it just the overall impression because it is bigger in size?
With the right kind of advertising HD20 may have some more potential. I believe there are more applications than using it attached to the forehead only.
I think Lux hit on something that’s true for me when it comes to the HD20. The SHTF utility light has a lot of appeal to me. If I HAD to use the HD20 as a headlamp, it’s a capable headlamp. It’s fine as a handheld. And it can be somewhere in the middle (worn in pocket). It pretty much does all the tricks (takes multiple kinds of battery, charges via USB, battery bank when you need one). There’s not really anything else that does that anywhere in this price range. Would fully regulated/stabilized output make it better? Sure, you’re going to win some customers with that. You might lose some too if that makes it much more expensive or takes you longer to get it out to the market. Something consumers don’t see is the downside risk of not getting a product to market earlier.
I like the wavy tube body of the Wurkkos lights. Provides a nice option when most lights on the market has knurling.
You don’t want a too narrow spot though, most people would want something with a wider spread. I’m guessing Wurrkos wanted the spot to blend with the flood.
Texas Ace Lumen Tube calibrated with maukka lights
New Zealand store – https://www.piercingthedarkness.co.nz (NZ customers only)
Acebeam H30 is with headstrap and battery +200g and Nitecore HC35 also 21700 headlamp is with same stuff over +210g. Lumeniac said in his review that HD20 is 208g so it doesnt seem to be lightest or heaviest in its own category. Aint PL47 G2 a bit shy from 200g fully loaded like 180-190g?
Just measured my last one in stock, its 86g unloaded and 156g incl 50E battery.
Texas Ace Lumen Tube calibrated with maukka lights
New Zealand store – https://www.piercingthedarkness.co.nz (NZ customers only)
Nice. Headstraps are something like 30-40g. Was that included?
Ah, no, just the PL47 and battery. Okay, so not too bad then if that’s what you’re including. I may buy one and see what I think depending on what I’m quoted as a dealer. It just doesn’t look so appealing though
Texas Ace Lumen Tube calibrated with maukka lights
New Zealand store – https://www.piercingthedarkness.co.nz (NZ customers only)
Serious question: What would you like to be changed in terms of HD20's look? Or is it just the overall impression because it is bigger in size?
With the right kind of advertising HD20 may have some more potential. I believe there are more applications than using it attached to the forehead only.
Guys take it easy with the criticism :TIRED:.
This has taken some effort and yes it’s a little different and not perfect but I am sure Lux and Barry will keep working on making it just the way you like it.
I am a kind of guy who strongly believe in develpoment.
Goread Y-20 ( XHP50.2 mod ), UF-2220 ( XP-L2 -> SST40 mod ), Thorfire PF01S, Sofirn SP-10B, Manker E02H X 2, Manker E03H, Imalent HR20 ( XP-L2 & TIR mod ), Rofis R3 ( SST40 mod ), Skilhunt S3 Pro HD, Utorch UT01 ( XP-L2 -> Osram Osconiq P8 mod ), Lumintop tool AAA ( XP-G3 -> SST20 mod ), Skilhunt H04R RC ( SST40 & TIRs selection mod )
Yeah, so much effort to made cheapest PWM driver with few components and no stabilization . They made much more complicated charging circuit with most primitive led driver and dishonored one off the best UI’s
Boost drivers
I am confident that sooner or later both Sofirn and Wurkkos will also have flashlights with more efficient drivers (buck-boost, CC+DD, <you name it>). They have proven already that they are able to make them, e.g. Sofirn's SP33 V2 with the 6V XHP50.2 or C8G with the 12V XHP35 HI. So, my guess is that developing more complex drivers require higher (material) costs and more time for individual development. Unlike some other manufacturers they are very flexible and quick in developing new models for very reasonable prices. Sofirn and Wurkkos are in tough competition with other manufacturers and brands, so pricing is a key element.
With that said, it needs both patience and careful awareness raising to convince them of the benefits that offer what we call "fully regulated" drivers. I mentioned this more than once already. The regular budget customer will probably not care about diminishing brightness with a depleting battery as this is still very common in most (budget) flashlights. These costumers however care a lot about a competitive and affordable prices. As much as I hate to say it: BLF is not the majority of customers. But we can try to help manufacturers improve their lights step by step and get closer to what we would call "the perfect solution".
Personally, I would like the idea of having two lines, a budget product line and a premium product line...
IMHO, premium means...
Certainly, all this comes with a totally different price.
Yeah, I’ve been fighting for simple UI’s because the majority of consumers aren’t going to want Anduril on their flashlights. Anduril is great but the average user hates it, my stock with Anduril is extremely hard to sell. I’ve had an Astrolux EC01 in stock for over 12 months, everyone wants simplicity.
I agree that not many care about regulated drivers at this price point, I certainly don’t
The C8G was a big fail though since the Turbo had a step down timer of 30 seconds, I don’t know what they were thinking.
Texas Ace Lumen Tube calibrated with maukka lights
New Zealand store – https://www.piercingthedarkness.co.nz (NZ customers only)
i see nothing wrong with simple driver, average user won’t know the difference, they want simple reliable light, if it loses 5% of battery to heat they do not care, but it is still pretty big and heavy for a headlamp, great 90* flashlight thou.
Oh, i see, simple boost or buck circuit someone is calling a “Premium” thing. Wake up its 2020.
Boost drivers
This competes with a few other dual (spot/flood) headlamps. The Fenix HM65R comes to mind. Weight wise, its not the heaviest in its battery-class. I think it missing a low power red LED that would have been the frosting on the cake, but its half the price of its true competition. I still think that this would make a great mtn.bike light… tune your perfect lighting and put it on the bar or helmet.
Yeah, one man’s trash is another man’s treasure.
Boost drivers
Please show me some real competitor to HD20 using a buck/boost driver, both price-wise and feature-wise.
Armytek's Wizard Pro (using XHP50.2 with a 6V boost driver) for instance has less features and costs more than twice.
Your main competitor and it wins
Boost drivers
I’ll be ordering as soon as they are available on Amazon. Will not be too heavy on a caving helmet for sure.
Swing and a miss.
I’ve noted that a number of Sofirn flashlights (notably the EDC-sized like the SP31/32 series or SP10 series) tend to have not that good anodization, compared to other similar budget-priced flashlights (in particular, I’m comparing to say the Convoy S2 series) — in my experience, Sofirn’s anodization tends to scratch off more easily than the Convoy’s; so probably that means the anodization used by Sofirn is not as good?
Going back to ‘regulated’ drivers — I’m not that well-versed in electronics, but I like measuring/testing stuff using just basic equipment (I understand this is not enough, since I’m not really a professional) — but aside from the C8G and SP33v2 (early batch) that use regulation — how about the SP32Av2.0? I notice that this model does not use PWM for lower brightness levels (I seem to assume that not using PWM is usually “a bit better”) — almost all other Sofirn flashlights (EDC size) use some form of PWM when set to lower brightness levels, so I find the SP32Av2.0 to be “special” in this regard.
So my question is whether the SP32Av2.0 also using a more “regulated” driver? If so, then Sofirn is able to use a regulated driver for one of the entry-level flashlights..
Boost driver cost in China maybe 3$ and with premium components maybe 5$. From now i will call Convoy a premium flashlight manufacturer ;))
Boost drivers
How many of their compact/EDC-style lights have a boost driver? (Hint: the driver is 22mm)
What other brands do, and how much do they cost?
Because it’s the 1000th+ time I’ve seen the terms used interchangeably here: Regulation and stabilization are not the same thing. Every flashlight that isn’t pure direct drive is regulated. Not taking a shot at you, but people always seem to make an association between good efficiency and full stabilization which is absolutely not always true.
I personally don’t really like the design of the overall body, I prefer one with knurling like the SP40. That didn’t stop me from buying one though, I wanted to wait until the SP40 would get updated with type c-c charging functionality but the additional throw/flood/powerbank functionality is something I really liked about this one! Also I assume I might be able to swap the body with another flashlight down the road so yeah
I also do not like the wavy tubes used by Wurkkos, but I do like the quality/price ratio of their lights
I’ll buy it when both LEDs are at 3000k or less and hi cri.
I don’t think they’ve ever heard of quality control…
I received my hd20 last weekend. Unfortunately, the 2 rubber rings of the headband are torn so that it is no longer possible to use the lamp as a headlamp.
There is also some dirt or scratches on both sides of the reflector, but I don’t think it will affect the beam much.I wasn’t able to make any pictures of it, it’s only visible when light is on
I think Lux hit on something that’s true for me when it comes to the HD20. The SHTF utility light has a lot of appeal to me. If I HAD to use the HD20 as a headlamp, it’s a capable headlamp. It’s fine as a handheld. And it can be somewhere in the middle (worn in pocket). It pretty much does all the tricks (takes multiple kinds of battery, charges via USB, battery bank when you need one). There’s not really anything else that does that anywhere in this price range. Would fully regulated/stabilized output make it better? Sure, you’re going to win some customers with that. You might lose some too if that makes it much more expensive or takes you longer to get it out to the market. Something consumers don’t see is the downside risk of not getting a product to market earlier.
I like the wavy tube body of the Wurkkos lights. Provides a nice option when most lights on the market has knurling.
Whut?
All its missing is a red led
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