Anduril ... 2?

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ToyKeeper
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To allow the user to change any settings, the HiveLD flashlight driver required the user to solder something onto the driver and then tap out a Morse code sequence on a clicky-switch button without feedback. Probably with a metronome in the background to help with the timing.

… and that’s arguably the easy part. The setup mode itself is pretty complicated. Like, to reach the factory reset function, it requires navigating to menu #4, activating it to enable Setup Level 2, then navigating to menu #18 (or maybe #17, manual is unclear if #5 is skipped), counting 18 blinks, and activating it to restore default settings. This is, of course, after soldering some tiny pads and entering a Morse code sequence.

I, uh, keep a copy of that manual around as an example of what not to do.

SKV89
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ToyKeeper wrote:
FWIW, I’ve been trying to re-do the diagrams for Anduril 2. The plan is to write up a full tutorial with diagrams for each step, but first I’m trying to organize a layout with all the details included.

For now, here’s an attempt to show the Simple UI in a manner which is, um, simple:

There are also a few things not shown in the diagram:

  • Ramp 1H: Ramp down
  • Ramp 3H: Tint ramp (on some lights)
  • Off 10H: Go to full / advanced UI
  • Loosen tailcap, press button, tighten tailcap, hold ~4s: Factory reset
  • Off 13H: Factory reset (on some lights)
  • Off 15+C: Version check

Can we have double click to turbo from off? I think it is easy enough to just ramp to top of ramp. We need a shortcut to turbo. Many people love to have a way to easily blast to turbo from off. The way it is now, I always accidentally go to battery check from off when wanting to get to turbo. Because click for on, and double click to turbo.

Also can we have 4H to for lockout? I know many muggles don’t read instructions or lose the instruction. It’s too easy for them to click 4 times and don’t know how to get out of it.

river345
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Another vote for double click from off to shortcut to turbo, and double click from on also short cuts to turbo.

Putting in my 2 cents regarding double/triple click shortcuts. On most of my lights, it’s pretty easy to do double clicks and triple clicks. I recently got a ArmyTek that has a super stiff button. I’m OK double clicking, but triple clicking is actually kinda hard. I feel like my fingers spaz out. If I had an emergency and really need to get to turbo, I’m so much more comfortable with it being a double click rather than a triple click on this ArmyTek.

Again, I don’t have that many lights (yet) and the ArmyTek is my only one where I feel like triple clicking is challenging. I also think as I get older, triple clicking could get even more dicey. I think turbo has priority over strobe, so maybe put strobe on triple click.

Thanks for the time and effort on Anduril.

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Simple UI can be changed to stepped ? I hate ramping

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Am I the only one to like and use the double-click from off to ceiling (lot of light without (over-)heating too quickly) ?
I have nothing against double-click from off to turbo (as requested by others) but only as an option, or as a default setting if this is reversible to double-click from off to ceiling. Please !

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Tally-ho wrote:
Am I the only one to like and use the double-click from off to ceiling (lot of light without (over-)heating too quickly) ?

http://budgetlightforum.com/comment/1683210#comment-1683210 Wink

In my understanding the ramp is the usable range and there should be shortcuts for lowest and highest levels in that ramp. Turbo should always be a separate level/mode/action.

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varbos wrote:
Simple UI can be changed to stepped ? I hate ramping

Yes, it can… but config can’t be changed while in simple mode. So here’s how to change it:

  1. 10H: Go to advanced mode.
  2. 1C: Turn the light on.
  3. 3C: Change to stepped mode.
  4. 1C: Turn the light off.
  5. 10C: Go back to simple mode.

Then simple mode uses steps instead of smooth ramping.

Tally-ho wrote:
Am I the only one to like and use the double-click from off to ceiling (lot of light without (over-)heating too quickly) ?

Nope, you’re not the only one. I also prefer “Off 2C” for ceiling instead of turbo. Especially on hot rod lights like the D4, I really don’t want full power most of the time… I just want a shortcut to a high mode.

That’s kind of the whole point of having a ceiling level which isn’t the same as turbo. If every shortcut goes to turbo instead of the ceiling, why bother having a ceiling at all?

So I’m kind of inclined to follow SammysHP’s suggestion and make it so that “Ramp 2C” also goes to the ceiling. If the user wants full power, they can set the ceiling to full power.

However, a shortcut to turbo would be good too, even if it wasn’t configured with a high ceiling. So I’m thinking about making it so “Off 2H” does momentary turbo with no thermal regulation. Advanced mode only though; no turbo in simple mode unless the user configures it that way. So in simple mode, “Off 2H” would be momentary ceiling.

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SKV89 wrote:
Also can we have 4H to for lockout? I know many muggles don’t read instructions or lose the instruction. It’s too easy for them to click 4 times and don’t know how to get out of it.

It’s a good question, whether to include lockout in simple mode. I truly don’t know if it’s too complex to be allowed in simple mode or not. Some big-brand lights include lockout, some don’t. So I think there are good points to be made either way.

As for what the button mapping is though… I really don’t want to make it any less convenient than it already is, because lockout gets used quite a bit. Was mostly trying to decide whether to make it easier to access, not whether to make it harder.

After using 3C lockout for a couple weeks though, I think 4C is probably a better default. Shortening it to 3C seems to have more downsides than benefits.

SKV89 wrote:
Can we have double click to turbo from off? I think it is easy enough to just ramp to top of ramp. We need a shortcut to turbo. Many people love to have a way to easily blast to turbo from off. The way it is now, I always accidentally go to battery check from off when wanting to get to turbo. Because click for on, and double click to turbo.

The distinction between ceiling and turbo is definitely a thing which comes up often, and it would be good to find a way to make it work for everyone. None of the options seem like a clear winner though; there are tradeoffs. So it becomes a question of which tradeoffs to use…

Here are a few options:

  • Off 2C = ceiling, On 2C = turbo. This is the current solution.
    • Benefits: It needs only two clicks, gives a nice shortcut to ceiling from off, and gives easy access to turbo while on.
    • Downsides: No shortcut to ceiling while on, no shortcut to turbo while off, and 2C does different things in different modes.
    • Mitigation: User can set ceiling to turbo, if they care more about turbo than having a separate ceiling level.
    • Mitigation: Could map “Off 2H” to momentary turbo (instead of momentary ceiling like it is now). It wouldn’t have thermal regulation during momentary turbo, but some might consider that a bonus.
  • 2C = ceiling, 3C = turbo.
    • Benefits: Gives consistent access to ceiling and turbo, regardless of mode.
    • Downsides: Turbo shortcut is relatively slow. Must move battcheck and ramp style toggle somewhere else. Requires either delayed turbo from off, or a bright flash on the way to lockout/battcheck/etc.
    • Mitigation: None.
  • 2C = ceiling, no turbo.
    • Benefits: Easy access to ceiling level.
    • Drawbacks: No turbo shortcut without changing ramp config. Can’t have turbo and a separate ceiling.
    • Mitigation: User can set ceiling to full power.
    • Mitigation: Could map “Off 2H” to momentary turbo.
  • 2C = turbo, no ceiling except via ramp-up.
    • Benefits: Easy access to turbo.
    • Drawbacks: Ceiling level becomes less useful.
    • Mitigation: None.
  • 2C = ceiling if mem less than ceiling, or turbo if mem >= ceiling.
    • Benefits: Allows both, without sacrificing other button mappings. Avoids turbo unless the user ramped up to ceiling the slow way first.
    • Drawbacks: No quick, consistent shortcut to turbo.
    • Mitigation: Could map “Off 2H” to momentary turbo.
  • 2C = ceiling first, then turbo if repeated, then back to mem.
    • Benefits: Quick access to ceiling. Same behavior from off or on.
    • Drawbacks: Awkward. Must cycle through turbo to return from ceiling. No direct shortcut to turbo.
    • Mitigation: None.

Personally, instead of making turbo easier to access, I usually want easier access to the ceiling level. I’ve even flashed custom firmware on some of my lights to remove turbo… like using the “no FET” KR4 firmware even though my KR4 has a FET and LEDs capable of handling full power.

So I’m kind of leaning toward something like this:

  • Off 2C : ceiling
  • Off 2H : momentary turbo
  • Ramp 2C : ceiling if mem < ceiling, or turbo if mem >= ceiling

This prioritizes the user’s ceiling configuration, so they can decide what the maximum should be… but also provides a way to bypass that temporarily for direct turbo from off.

On lights with thermally-sustainable power levels like the LT1, none of this is even relevant. It uses full power by default. It’s only on higher-power lights where this matters. The ceiling gives users a choice for whether their hot rod should behave like a hot rod or like a normal light.

I’d generally recommend setting one ramp to full power, while the other is limited to a sane level… so it’ll be easy to switch between.

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ToyKeeper wrote:

  • Off 2C : ceiling
  • Off 2H : momentary turbo
  • Ramp 2C : ceiling if mem < ceiling, or turbo if mem >= ceiling

This prioritizes the user’s ceiling configuration, so they can decide what the maximum should be… but also provides a way to bypass that temporarily for direct turbo from off.


This sounds really good! Thumbs Up
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SammysHP wrote:
This sounds really good!

If anyone wants to try it, it’s in the most recent anduril2 revision.

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ToyKeeper wrote:

  • Off 2C = ceiling, On 2C = turbo. This is the current solution.
    • Benefits: It needs only two clicks, gives a nice shortcut to ceiling from off, and gives easy access to turbo while on.
    • Downsides: No shortcut to ceiling while on, no shortcut to turbo while off, and 2C does different things in different modes.
    • Mitigation: User can set ceiling to turbo, if they care more about turbo than having a separate ceiling level.
    • Mitigation: Could map “Off 2H” to momentary turbo (instead of momentary ceiling like it is now). It wouldn’t have thermal regulation during momentary turbo, but some might consider that a bonus.

The problem with this solution is that we always end up getting into voltage check (triple click) when trying to access turbo which is real annoying especially under tactical situations where we need turbo access immediately.

ToyKeeper wrote:

  • 2C = turbo, no ceiling except via ramp-up.
    • Benefits: Easy access to turbo.
    • Drawbacks: Ceiling level becomes less useful.
    • Mitigation: None.

This is the ideal and is what most UIs from premium brands like Thrunite, Olight, Acebeam, Nitecore etc. use. It’s the most intuitive and the majority of users like the ability for easy direct access to turbo.

ToyKeeper wrote:

  • 2C = ceiling, 3C = turbo.
    • Benefits: Gives consistent access to ceiling and turbo, regardless of mode.
    • Downsides: Turbo shortcut is relatively slow. Must move battcheck and ramp style toggle somewhere else. Requires either delayed turbo from off, or a bright flash on the way to lockout/battcheck/etc.
    • Mitigation: None.

As a compromise, I think this is acceptable. We still have direct access to turbo though it won’t be consistent with the industry standard double click to turbo.

Thanks for your hard work btw!

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SammysHP wrote:
ToyKeeper wrote:

  • Off 2C : ceiling
  • Off 2H : momentary turbo
  • Ramp 2C : ceiling if mem < ceiling, or turbo if mem >= ceiling

This prioritizes the user’s ceiling configuration, so they can decide what the maximum should be… but also provides a way to bypass that temporarily for direct turbo from off.


This sounds really good! Thumbs Up

I prefer this method too. Most times I only need ceiling brightness, and when I do use Turbo it’s only for a few seconds then my light is too hot to hold.

This also allows the user to set the ceiling to Turbo level if they want “Off 2C” to go to Turbo.

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ToyKeeper wrote:
Here are a few options:
  • Off 2C = ceiling, On 2C = turbo. This is the current solution.
    • Benefits: It needs only two clicks, gives a nice shortcut to ceiling from off, and gives easy access to turbo while on.
    • Downsides: No shortcut to ceiling while on, no shortcut to turbo while off, and 2C does different things in different modes.
    • Mitigation: User can set ceiling to turbo, if they care more about turbo than having a separate ceiling level.
    • Mitigation: Could map “Off 2H” to momentary turbo (instead of momentary ceiling like it is now). It wouldn’t have thermal regulation during momentary turbo, but some might consider that a bonus.
  • 2C = ceiling, 3C = turbo.
    • Benefits: Gives consistent access to ceiling and turbo, regardless of mode.
    • Downsides: Turbo shortcut is relatively slow. Must move battcheck and ramp style toggle somewhere else. Requires either delayed turbo from off, or a bright flash on the way to lockout/battcheck/etc.
    • Mitigation: None.
  • 2C = ceiling, no turbo.
    • Benefits: Easy access to ceiling level.
    • Drawbacks: No turbo shortcut without changing ramp config. Can’t have turbo and a separate ceiling.
    • Mitigation: User can set ceiling to full power.
    • Mitigation: Could map “Off 2H” to momentary turbo.
  • 2C = turbo, no ceiling except via ramp-up.
    • Benefits: Easy access to turbo.
    • Drawbacks: Ceiling level becomes less useful.
    • Mitigation: None.
  • 2C = ceiling if mem less than ceiling, or turbo if mem >= ceiling.
    • Benefits: Allows both, without sacrificing other button mappings. Avoids turbo unless the user ramped up to ceiling the slow way first.
    • Drawbacks: No quick, consistent shortcut to turbo.
    • Mitigation: Could map “Off 2H” to momentary turbo.
  • 2C = ceiling first, then turbo if repeated, then back to mem.
    • Benefits: Quick access to ceiling. Same behavior from off or on.
    • Drawbacks: Awkward. Must cycle through turbo to return from ceiling. No direct shortcut to turbo.
    • Mitigation: None.

Personally, instead of making turbo easier to access, I usually want easier access to the ceiling level. I’ve even flashed custom firmware on some of my lights to remove turbo… like using the “no FET” KR4 firmware even though my KR4 has a FET and LEDs capable of handling full power.

So I’m kind of leaning toward something like this:

  • Off 2C : ceiling
  • Off 2H : momentary turbo
  • Ramp 2C : ceiling if mem < ceiling, or turbo if mem >= ceiling

This prioritizes the user’s ceiling configuration, so they can decide what the maximum should be… but also provides a way to bypass that temporarily for direct turbo from off.

On lights with thermally-sustainable power levels like the LT1, none of this is even relevant. It uses full power by default. It’s only on higher-power lights where this matters. The ceiling gives users a choice for whether their hot rod should behave like a hot rod or like a normal light.

I’d generally recommend setting one ramp to full power, while the other is limited to a sane level… so it’ll be easy to switch between.

I think I’m having a different problem. I’ve been using my Supfire M6 lately. It’s got four 30Qs and 3 XHP50.2s on a FET+1+15. It’ll run on full AMCs for a long time before it steps down slightly to a thermally stable level. So I initially set ceiling to max 7135s. The problem then becomes, I get a jump from about 6A to (guessing here) something north of 30 Amps (possibly much higher, but I can’t test). While the double-click to ceiling is nice and how I like things, I sometimes really want to ramp partially into the FET range but can’t. I have pretty nice control of everything from below 1 lumen to maybe 3000? And then a jump to 10K or something. So I can change the ceiling higher, but then my double-click from off goes much higher than I’d like.

I thought about it, and I don’t really think this is something Anduril should, or can in a practical way, fix. It’s also probably only really necessary on the crazy lights, beyond D4 power levels. If I get to the point where it bothers me enough on this light, I’ll just have to write in a change, and manually define 2C from off to always be a certain level, and let ceiling be whatever I want for ramping.

For the rest of my lights, I set ceiling to turbo.

Also, for “Ramp 2C : ceiling if mem < ceiling, or turbo if mem >= ceiling”, how could memory be higher than ceiling?

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Scallywag wrote:
I think I’m having a different problem. I’ve been using my Supfire M6 lately. It’s got four 30Qs and 3 XHP50.2s on a FET+1+15. It’ll run on full AMCs for a long time before it steps down slightly to a thermally stable level. So I initially set ceiling to max 7135s. The problem then becomes, I get a jump from about 6A to (guessing here) something north of 30 Amps (possibly much higher, but I can’t test). While the double-click to ceiling is nice and how I like things, I sometimes really want to ramp partially into the FET range but can’t. I have pretty nice control of everything from below 1 lumen to maybe 3000? And then a jump to 10K or something. So I can change the ceiling higher, but then my double-click from off goes much higher than I’d like.

I thought about it, and I don’t really think this is something Anduril should, or can in a practical way, fix. It’s also probably only really necessary on the crazy lights, beyond D4 power levels. If I get to the point where it bothers me enough on this light, I’ll just have to write in a change, and manually define 2C from off to always be a certain level, and let ceiling be whatever I want for ramping.

On lights like the M6 or D18, what I’d suggest is setting two different ceilings. Then you can pick one relatively quickly by choosing a ramp and then jumping to the ceiling. This is part of why I’ve kept the “change ramp style” function on a short button sequence. I mostly use it to select from two floors, but two ceilings works too.

Specifically, it might make sense to configure the stepped ramp so the highest regulated level is, perhaps, step 6 of 7. Or maybe even step 5 of 7. Or 6 of 8. Or whatever. The steps.py tool is helpful for doing stuff like this. I’d also configure the smooth ramp so it stops at the highest regulated level. Or maybe all the way up to turbo.

Scallywag wrote:
for “Ramp 2C : ceiling if mem < ceiling, or turbo if mem >= ceiling”, how could memory be higher than ceiling?

Greater than or equal to. So, if the user ramps up all the way and then double-clicks, it would go to full-power turbo. The greater-than part is mostly just a way to cover any obscure corner cases and prevent potential bugs.

Like, if the two ramps have different ceilings… the user could go up to the higher ceiling, then change ramp styles, and memory could theoretically be set higher than the ceiling. In practice, that’s not how it works since Anduril checks and changes the memorized level while changing ramp style… but it doesn’t hurt to handle the corner case even if it should never happen.

A lot of programming is about handling conditions which should theoretically never happen.

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SKV89 wrote:
The problem with this solution is that we always end up getting into voltage check (triple click) when trying to access turbo which is real annoying especially under tactical situations where we need turbo access immediately.

I’d argue that if you are looking for a light for “tactical” use, an Anduril light probably isn’t the optimal choice in the first place. There are already plenty of tactical lights with very simple UIs available for this use case.

I really like the idea of 2C always going to top of ramp, from both off or on. This is usually set to a much more usable level than a full FET turbo that can only be sustained for a few seconds. I’d use 2C from on much more often if it went to the top of the ramp since I rarely use full turbo on pocket rockets like the FWxx. If a user intends to use full turbo all the time, the top of the ramp can be easily set to turbo. 2H from off for turbo is a good compromise to keep it accessible if you need to go full blast for a few seconds for “tactical” reasons.

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I finally received my EDC18 two days ago and have played with it since. And it met my expectations and even more, when configured the way I want it I believe it is the best UI on any of my flashlights.

As for Anduril 2 I see the need for the simple UI. I let my wife try it and she struggled with all the clicks, in particular separating 4 and 5 clicks. So when trying to activate “lockout” she often went into momentary instead, and she had to try several times to get out of lockout. I tried to teach her my way of doing it which is counting 2C’s like One-Two-One-Two for 4C and One-Two-One-Two-One for 5C, but that did not work for her.

The way I see it “Lockout” is a safety feature which most people probably would like to enable on a light, while Battcheck is more of a specialist requirement. I realise you would loose the new features of choosing where to start from lockout (4H floor and 5C ceiling) with 3C for lockout, but I believe it would be much easier for “normal” users to go in and out of lockout with 3C. I realise that one UI can’t be perfect for everyone, and each has personal preferences, but I would like to know why you concluded that 4C would be better than 3C for lockout after having tried it a bit? Could you elaborate a little on this?

And do you do wishes? Big Smile
I would really really really like to have the ability to enable the 2H to momentary turbo in Simple UI without raising the ceiling. Is there any way you can make this an enable/disable (with default disabled) feature? One of the really good things about Anduril is that it gives me direct access to 3 adjustable levels from off (floor, manual memory and ceiling), and to turbo when on. Normally I never use turbo for longer periods at a time, so the 2H from off seems like a really nice addition to get access to all four levels from off. I also believe that a lot of other “advanced users” would like to set up Simple UI in the way they like it by going through the advanced UI first, but then use simple UI as their default one. And I would hate to have to give up ceiling to achieve this.

Anyway, thank you very much for your dedication and hard work Big Smile

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I’m not sure how many users have there lights on for long periods of time but how about a timer that can be enabled and disabled?

Lets say flashlight is turned on and no input is received for __ mins (programmable) then light shuts off.

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ToyKeeper wrote:
About whether version check should be included in simple mode… I’m not sure. It’s a good question. Should version check be in both modes, or just in advanced mode?

I would prefer not to have the version check in simple mode. It is not an essential function and it could cause confusion if activated accidentally. Anyone who knows enough to want it can go into advanced mode to get to it.

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bquinlan wrote:
ToyKeeper wrote:
About whether version check should be included in simple mode… I’m not sure. It’s a good question. Should version check be in both modes, or just in advanced mode?

I would prefer not to have the version check in simple mode. It is not an essential function and it could cause confusion if activated accidentally. Anyone who knows enough to want it can go into advanced mode to get to it.

Agreed. Even though I just read about simple mode, I simply forgot about it.

Or maybe activated by default for something like 10 mins but then to disable it or make any changes then that would have to be done through the advanced UI

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For lockout,

click click click hold, confirmed by a flash sequence to confirm lockout is engaged, would be awesome.

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dluckey86 wrote:
For lockout,

click click click hold, confirmed by a flash sequence to confirm lockout is engaged, would be awesome.

We don’t want the firmware too confusing next to other brands, most use 4 clicks and it’ll be confusing if owning multiple lights

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Vbryanv wrote:
I’m not sure how many users have there lights on for long periods of time but how about a timer that can be enabled and disabled?

Lets say flashlight is turned on and no input is received for __ mins (programmable) then light shuts off.

It has a sunset timer. Turn the light on, then click 5 times and hold the final press. The light then blinks once per second. Each blink adds 5 minutes to the timer. Let go when enough time has been added.

Then it slowly dims and eventually shuts itself off.

This setting doesn’t stick though. The timer is only active until the light shuts off.

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I ment more for accidental activation. I known there is now a feature for if you hold the button it will not stay on high. But what if you don’t have it locked out and it clicks in you bag or pocket.

Muggles may forget to lock there lights out. Heck sometimes I forget too.

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You could use the autolock feature that locks the light after some time of inactivity.

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Quote:
Off 2C : ceiling Off 2H : momentary turbo Ramp 2C : ceiling if mem < ceiling, or turbo if mem >= ceiling

Since I use manual memory, am I correct in thinking I would no longer have any access to turbo except the momentary hold from off with this setup?

Personally I’m not at all interested in a shortcut to turbo from off unless it can be disabled some way (or is momentary). The ability to set the ceiling to a less pocket-scorching level is a big part of the reason I feel even slightly comfortable carrying a hotrod unlocked.

Vbryanv
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SammysHP wrote:
You could use the autolock feature that locks the light after some time of inactivity.

Autolock?

Tally-ho
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@Vbryanv

ToyKeeper wrote:

  • Hopefully add some extra features, like a configurable sunset mode and perhaps an auto-lockout timer while off… though these depend on how much space is available. Perhaps make the button LED and aux LEDs configurable separately.

ToyKeeper wrote:

Auto-lockout is already implemented:
  • Lockout 5C -> Auto-lock config (click N times for N minutes)
  • Lockout 5H -> Auto-lock off
Vbryanv
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ToyKeeper wrote:

Auto-lockout is already implemented:
  • Lockout 5C -> Auto-lock config (click N times for N minutes)
  • Lockout 5H -> Auto-lock off
[/quote]

It looks like I still have so much more to learn. The only configuration I thought the only thing you could change durning for lockout was the ceiling/floor ofqq lockout brightness.

So when I adjust the minutes for auto lock config, I can use then light like normally and then during inactivity it will default back to lockout? Or am I more lost than I feel?

Has this been around long? 80% of my Andruil UI lights should have then UI from withing the last year.

Edit: After reading up a little seem like I have to reflash to the latest software to give it a try.

I may be fairly new but your software and the fact that you communicate with the enthusiasts is one of the reasons I keep buying flashights with your UI.

Keep it up

SammysHP
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Yes, it will lock the light after the set amount of inactivity. Currently it is 10C/10H but that might change again, who knows. It’s not in an official release yet, you have to compile it yourself. None of your lights currently has it.

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