BLF triple 21700?

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wishiwereaskibum
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This could be a real interesting light for me. I like the 3 in series 21700 for factor a lot. It would be great to be a decent mix of throw vs. flood wi5 as little hot spot as possible. 20k Lm sustainable perhaps? 10k at least? A hundred or two hundred yard ( meters ok) of throw is more then sufficient as who can really see much beyond that. But man, to light up an area 50m way with 15k Lm… I’m in.

Love the form factor of the light pictured in post.

Lux-Perpetua wrote:

Good idea! Thumbs Up 


Actually, I was thinking about this idea, too (at that time with only one emitter) to benefit from the latest high drain 21700 batteries for Luminus’s SBT90.2.


http://budgetlightforum.com/node/69868


Using a multiemitter optic with a design like LEDiL’s TAMPA NIS83-MX-7-W, see below, of course bigger, wider to make use of the increased tube diameter. Something like Hank’s D18 but less floody, more throwy.


 


 



 

WishIwereaSkibum

zoulas
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texas shooter wrote:
3-21700’s vs 4-18650’s about the same, but I’m leaning to the newer 21700 format. Maybe 6 XHP50.2 giving up some lumens for throw and less heat. So maybe 15,000 lumens instead of 25,000 but more throw and a lot less heat. Or SST-70 for more throw over the XHP50.2’s. Or 7 SST-40’s. Just something a bit well thought out and a step up from the Sofirn SP36 BLF.

Personally, not being as advanced as you guys, 25k lumens should be the goal as there are many 15k lumen lights out there including the almost 2 year old MF01S. A 25k lumen budget light would be revolutionary.

ArtieT59
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I think this OP is very exciting, mostly because it would be a blf light in addition to the 3×21700. Some of my thoughts -

If single emitter or multi emitter-
USB-c
No battery carrier
Tailstand / no lanyard
TIR optic(s) – if more then 7 emitters
Aux leds (button and mcpcb) if more then 7 emitters
Reflector – if 7 or less emitters
Length in head for heat dissipation

Basically this sounds like an “updated” mf01s, but I for one am OK with a light of that shape/size/etc but LONGER. I’d like to see less then 18 emitters, I like the (7) emitter size.

I don’t see why the pop can size is so popular, as those light need more mass for heat shedding. Make the head longer (if that’s possible) and balance it out with the battery tube (for weight distribution and aesthetic) so they can handle heat.

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Artiet59 wrote:
I don’t see why the pop can size is so popular, as those light need more mass for heat shedding.

Sody-pop light + diffuser = stable tailstanding lantern.

Plunger-light = plunger-light.

09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0

netprince
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Id buy one. It’s gonna be too heavy though.

texas shooter
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zoulas wrote:
texas shooter wrote:
3-21700’s vs 4-18650’s about the same, but I’m leaning to the newer 21700 format. Maybe 6 XHP50.2 giving up some lumens for throw and less heat. So maybe 15,000 lumens instead of 25,000 but more throw and a lot less heat. Or SST-70 for more throw over the XHP50.2’s. Or 7 SST-40’s. Just something a bit well thought out and a step up from the Sofirn SP36 BLF.

Personally, not being as advanced as you guys, 25k lumens should be the goal as there are many 15k lumen lights out there including the almost 2 year old MF01S. A 25k lumen budget light would be revolutionary.

I picked 15,000 lumens cause the ones claiming 25,000 plummet like a rock once turned on. Like to keep BLF a little honest. 6-7 XHP70.2’s maybe but at the expense of throw given over to huge spill master. So 4-7 smaller LED’s for some soda can size throw. Currently Sofirn has a two triple 18650’s pushing 6-8000 lumens using XPL2/SST40 LED’s. I’m dreaming of double that output using 3-21700’s. Hopefully possible as a BLF and not a “budget buster”. 4-7 SST40’s for more throw, 4-7 XHP50.2’s for 15,000 real lumens on a scaled up triple 21700 close to the Sofirn SP36 silhouette.

jeff51
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I wonder if a 2S. 2P. With the cells in a side by side config could be used to save on excess metal. The SxS oval would be slimmer in the hand. And you get a 4 cell power.
And another vote for a longer runtime before step down.
All he Best,
Jeff

ArtieT59
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Lightbringer wrote:
Artiet59 wrote:
I don’t see why the pop can size is so popular, as those light need more mass for heat shedding.

Sody-pop light + diffuser = stable tailstanding lantern.

Plunger-light = plunger-light.


Lol point taken

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Check out some of my new lights (picture heavy) and quick first impressions of them here: https://budgetlightforum.com/node/77180

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ArtieT59
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texas shooter wrote:
zoulas wrote:
texas shooter wrote:
3-21700’s vs 4-18650’s about the same, but I’m leaning to the newer 21700 format. Maybe 6 XHP50.2 giving up some lumens for throw and less heat. So maybe 15,000 lumens instead of 25,000 but more throw and a lot less heat. Or SST-70 for more throw over the XHP50.2’s. Or 7 SST-40’s. Just something a bit well thought out and a step up from the Sofirn SP36 BLF.

Personally, not being as advanced as you guys, 25k lumens should be the goal as there are many 15k lumen lights out there including the almost 2 year old MF01S. A 25k lumen budget light would be revolutionary.

I picked 15,000 lumens cause the ones claiming 25,000 plummet like a rock once turned on. Like to keep BLF a little honest. 6-7 XHP70.2’s maybe but at the expense of throw given over to huge spill master. So 4-7 smaller LED’s for some soda can size throw. Currently Sofirn has a two triple 18650’s pushing 6-8000 lumens using XPL2/SST40 LED’s. I’m dreaming of double that output using 3-21700’s. Hopefully possible as a BLF and not a “budget buster”. 4-7 SST40’s for more throw, 4-7 XHP50.2’s for 15,000 real lumens on a scaled up triple 21700 close to the Sofirn SP36 silhouette.


I don’t own the sp36 or q8 or anyth8ng like that as The aesthetic just never appealed to me enough.. the CAD drawing with 7 emitters posted in this thread I would greatly be interested in. Please change from the sp36 / q8 style or look. Something with a head larger then the body please.

[FLF] Five Light Friday https://budgetlightforum.com/node/78749

Check out some of my new lights (picture heavy) and quick first impressions of them here: https://budgetlightforum.com/node/77180

My Sft40 beamshots / comparison thread: https://budgetlightforum.com/node/78100

texas shooter
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To those who just posted; Jeff, Artiet. This is still just idle banter without anything close to fixed as a design. I’m just projecting my thoughts on the look.

Th558
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18x XHP50.2 or SST70 with an efficient driver would be nice. Always wanted an X80-GT but I can’t justify the price and there are no cheaper alternatives.

Edit: I guess we could make two versions, one with 7 emitters and one with 18.

buck91
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High CRI, warm tint and I’d consider it… though I really prefer a longer, slimmer host than a popcan light.

clientequator
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How about 21700 using loneoceans new boost driver the Lume X1?

It seems like it can run in boost mode up to 40W, use Anduril firmware. A nice high quality XHP70.2 or XHP50.2 with the same Ledil olga optic he use will be perfect in my opinion.

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clientequator wrote:
…A nice high quality XHP70.2 or XHP50.2…
Facepalm Facepalm

Are you sure?

(Those emitters only has quality, when they are dedomed and excess phosphor around LES is removed, but I am not aware of any manufacturer willing to do that.)

adam7027
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clientequator wrote:
How about 21700 using loneoceans new boost driver the Lume X1?

It seems like it can run in boost mode up to 40W, use Anduril firmware. … with the same Ledil olga optic he use will be perfect in my opinion.

Would be interesting, but 3×21700 could qualify for much more powerful designs as well. 40W could be good for a 3 × SST-20 95CRI thrower, or any other flashlight design with at least 18-20 × E21A.

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adam7027 wrote:
clientequator wrote:
…A nice high quality XHP70.2 or XHP50.2…
Facepalm Facepalm

Are you sure?

(Those emitters only has quality, when they are dedomed and excess phosphor around LES is removed, but I am not aware of any manufacturer willing to do that.)


Kaidomain dedomes XHP50.2.
D'AVerk
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For which optic this cadavre wold be adopted?
Additional one flash FL? No any 3000+lm can be efficiently dissipated in near soda can size. May be 5000lm in night cool weather.

If the optic would be floody,that even with 15k lm the real distance would be not amazing. And if optic would be throwy, it wouldbe uncomfortable in close distances.

The future is on FL with chageable light distribtion (not lens zoomer )))), with such light ability

clientequator
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adam7027 wrote:
clientequator wrote:
…A nice high quality XHP70.2 or XHP50.2…
Facepalm Facepalm

Are you sure?

(Those emitters only has quality, when they are dedomed and excess phosphor around LES is removed, but I am not aware of any manufacturer willing to do that.)

I think you are correct. From what I read, the XHP50.2 and 70.2 have very high efficiency for lumen / watt, and the CRI is high. However it often has green tints.

Maybe the best idea is using new B35AM from Nichia but I have not seen it before in any flashlight.

Enderman
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3×21700 would mean a minimum 46mm body ID, so ~50mm (2”) OD, the same as a 4×18650 light Smile

With a body-diameter sized TIR and a CULPM1 LED it would be possible to get close to 0.5Mcd 1400m ANSI range, but only at less than 1500lm.

Using a SBT90.2 could be pretty cool though, if you could drive it at 5k+ lumens using high drain 21700 cells.

adam7027
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clientequator wrote:
I think you are correct. From what I read, the XHP50.2 and 70.2 have very high efficiency for lumen / watt, and the CRI is high. However it often has green tints.

Maybe the best idea is using new B35AM from Nichia but I have not seen it before in any flashlight.

Not really. CRI is not high for any of XHPxx.2 . Yes, they are efficient, but even the highest CRI class usually gets measured with R9 under 50 (I remember seeing it 39 for XP-G3, which has mostly identical phosphor technology).

Still, I would accept that for some cases, but without the changes I mentioned (which was implemented already by a few members here, most notably ZozzV6), tint shifts are so huge across the beam, that it shall be called CreeRainbowPuke™.

adam7027
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Agro wrote:
Kaidomain dedomes XHP50.2.

Oh, thanks for the info. It is request based for each order, or it can be ordered like a separate item?

texas shooter
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Just an observation. I picked up the Astrolux FT02S recently and it’s max output is with the Samsung 30T. That’s 3000 mah where as a triple 21700 could do the same with 3 Samsung 50G. So instead of triple capacity you now have 5 times the capacity with the same brightness.

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adam7027 wrote:
Agro wrote:
Kaidomain dedomes XHP50.2.

Oh, thanks for the info. It is request based for each order, or it can be ordered like a separate item?


http://kaidomain.com/Cree-XHP50_2-De-domed-White-6500K-LED-Emitter?search=xhp50.2
Enderman wrote:
Imagine a 95+ CRI floodlight with 6-9k lumens:

https://store.yujiintl.com/collections/led-cobs/products/bc-series-high-...

Yuji COBs are dense but terribly inefficient. Sad
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Agro wrote:

Yuji COBs are dense but terribly inefficient. Sad

Most high CRI leds are very inefficient, no?
buck91
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Enderman wrote:
Imagine a 95+ CRI floodlight with 6-9k lumens: https://store.yujiintl.com/collections/led-cobs/products/bc-series-high-...

Am I reading that correctly? One led for $99?

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Enderman wrote:
Agro wrote:

Yuji COBs are dense but terribly inefficient. Sad

Most high CRI leds are very inefficient, no?

No. Yuji are special. This one gets 60 lm/W. I don’t remember the exact numbers and don’t care to calculate again but even heavily underdriven it stays very inefficient.
F.e. Nichia NFCWL060B-V4 offers the same CRI with 135 lm/W. Even warm Optisolis is 110+ lm/W.

ADDED:
Nichia NVCWL024Z-V1 has 11 mm LES, so 21% larger area.
It makes almost 14000 lm with ~78 lm/W. CRI 95min as well.
At the rated current (1.2A) it gives 4980 lm with 117 lm/W.
My crude chart read gives it 146 lm/W and 2340 lm at 500 mA. Might be significantly incorrect but the max efficiency is much more than 117 lm/W.

Note that both Yuji and Nichia do their ratings when the LED is cool.

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buck91 wrote:
Enderman wrote:
Imagine a 95+ CRI floodlight with 6-9k lumens: https://store.yujiintl.com/collections/led-cobs/products/bc-series-high-...

Am I reading that correctly? One led for $99?


They have another one for $1350
https://store.yujiintl.com/collections/led-cobs/products/yujileds-bc-ser...
texas shooter
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Since Simon over at Convoy Flashlights came out with an affordable triple 21700. Since he’s an active member of this forms. Since he listens to the wants and desires of his customers. I’m going to declare the BLF triple 21700 done. I just ordered the triple SST40 5000K. Thank you Simon for building affordable quality lights.

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