“REVIEW”: On The Road Z821 - Zoomable – 1x18650 – 940 lumens [Pic Heavy]

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contactcr
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I will bump mine up to full 6A CC mode and re-measure lux. Really want something closer to 100kcd out of this but I guess I will have to max out the LED with new driver or switch to NM1 to get that

luminarium iaculator
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contactcr wrote:
I will bump mine up to full 6A CC mode and re-measure lux. Really want something closer to 100kcd out of this but I guess I will have to max out the LED with new driver or switch to NM1 to get that

Osram White Flat 1 + precoolimator lens.

contactcr
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luminarium iaculator wrote:
contactcr wrote:
I will bump mine up to full 6A CC mode and re-measure lux. Really want something closer to 100kcd out of this but I guess I will have to max out the LED with new driver or switch to NM1 to get that

Osram White Flat 1 + precoolimator lens.

66.5kcd, not much improvement

This host is not worth the complexity and cost of pre-collimator lens. I may try WF1 though.

luminarium iaculator
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Please try. It should be 20% brighter. So it should hit 100KCD which is extreeme thrower in that flashlight size. Do you remember those small 80-90 kcd lights that Saabluster(from CPF but he is member here too) was selling several years ago for 300-400$? At that time that was really extreme performance in small flashligt form factor. Well this should certainly surpass it in every possible way if you put WF1 inside.

MascaratumB
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luminarium iaculator wrote:
Yes it could turn blue because when DD it will draw around 14A of current!

[…]

BTW I have same light meter as you. Try to switch to FC mode. That way it reads much more accurate and it is very easy to convert FC to lux online.

Thanks for the measurements and the information on this luminarium iaculator Wink
Well, 14A current may be a little too much for the led Silly No angry blue on this team Silly

I was going to get a UT201E clamp meter 2 weeks ago on a local store, supposedly on sale for half the price (23€) but when I reached the store it was sold out Facepalm I felt disappointed. I will wait some more time, bad time to buy stuff now…

About my rough measurements (really rough, as I have no good setting to do this at home):
at 5 m, I got a) ~2290 lux peak, 2080 lux after around 15-20 seconds, and b) 206 FC, that then started decreasing.

Using the online calculator that you gently pointed me to,
207 FC = 2228.1294563l lux
2290 lux = 212.7479616 FC

2290lux at 5m = 57250cd

So, are the measurements wrong?

Driver is set to CC at 5.5A, the battery was at around 4.1V, and after being lit for a while (less that 1 minute), the light was 46ºC in parts of the head and body.
It gets almost too hot to hold when being pushed during some time.

I hope this helps in some way Thumbs Up
And help me correct what is wrong !

contactcr
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MascaratumB wrote:

2290lux at 5m = 57250cd

So, are the measurements wrong?

Driver is set to CC at 5.5A, the battery was at around 4.1V

Since you have different lux meter, LED, etc I dont really see any reason to think it’s wrong

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I don’t think they are wrong… Possible LUX meter calibration variation Beer
Whole BLF would need group buy of same type/same calibration luxmeter. That way we would have same results. Djozz would be right guy to take group buy since he is almost doctor for lux meters Wink

Contactr got this before me lol Smile

But there are plenty of possible variables:

- Lens difference (only applies to glass lenses and performance may vary a lot)
- emitter brightness difference (someone gets lemon and someone strawberry)
- spring bypass (ignore that for Osram but it still matters for Cree emitters)
- Driver wire length&thickness (not much influence on Osrams just Cree)
- Mcpcb (DTP board really boosts things up)
- lux meter calibration
- Used 18650 cell
- I can’t remember any more…

Edit:
About your luxmeter… I noticed that lux meter readings goes up if I clean sensor with wet wipes and microfiber cloth. But you can try to clean it with whatever you have. Mine is in dusty drawer and needs cleaning from time to time…

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contactcr wrote:
Since you have different lux meter, LED, etc I dont really see any reason to think it’s wrong

luminarium iaculator wrote:
I don’t think they are wrong… Possible LUX meter calibration variation Beer
Whole BLF would need group buy of same type/same calibration luxmeter. That way we would have same results. Djozz would be right guy to take group buy since he is almost doctor for lux meters Wink

Contactr got this before me lol Smile

But there are plenty of possible variables:

- Lens difference (only applies to glass lenses and performance may vary a lot)
- emitter brightness difference (someone gets lemon and someone strawberry)
- spring bypass (ignore that for Osram but it still matters for Cree emitters)
- Driver wire length&thickness (not much influence on Osrams just Cree)
- Mcpcb (DTP board really boosts things up)
- lux meter calibration
- Used 18650 cell
- I can’t remember any more…

Edit:
About your luxmeter… I noticed that lux meter readings goes up if I clean sensor with wet wipes and microfiber cloth. But you can try to clean it with whatever you have. Mine is in dusty drawer and needs cleaning from time to time…

Thanks both of you! Thumbs Up
I am not used to do this kind of measurements, much less to be “accurate” (if I could ever achieve that).

I needed to have a stable tripod to be able to stop the light and always make it in the same focal point.
Also, better tools and calibrated ones could improve the measurement accuracy. But this is still a hobby and I will only get some things I may need.

Well, not sure if the “blackened” reflector, a non existent gasket, other eventual things related to led centering, can have any kind of influence in terms of illumination. Oops

I have no bypassed springs and the tailswitch has a thinner spring , not as the original one.
DTP MCPCB from led4power. I guess it has 20 AWG wires

My luxmeter is normally in a box, with the sensor downwards, so it is not very dirty I guess.
I believe other things may have more impact on this measurement.

I guess my flashlight “science” may be frail after all Big Smile Big Smile Big Smile Innocent

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Well 60 kcd from a small light is still impressive results since a whole lot of factory lights does not surpass even 20-30kcd mark.

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luminarium iaculator wrote:
Well 60 kcd from a small light is still impressive results since a whole lot of factory lights does not surpass even 20-30kcd mark.

Indeed! It is still a good throw, given the specs and that I cannot mod it “perfectly” Wink

BTW, I modded my Eagle Eye X3R also with l4p driver set to 4.5A and White Flat 1.
Measurements:

3090 lux at 5m = 77250cd

It does this Wink

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I went from 66.5kcd to 71.4kcd by adjusting the focus. I took an o-ring from a 26650 light and pressed it onto the shelf where the lens sits then screwed the bezel part way back on.

This is “too much” adjustment and over focused it but I gradually pulled it back until I got a more ideal result with lux meter (on low up close) then formally re-tested at longer range with highest setting.

This tells me that additional 0.5mm added from MCPCB probably does make a difference even though it didnt appear much “sharper” to me visually. Not sure of the best way to correct this yet or if it’s worth it.

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contactcr wrote:
I went from 66.5kcd to 71.4kcd by adjusting the focus. I took an o-ring from a 26650 light and pressed it onto the shelf where the lens sits then screwed the bezel part way back on.

This is “too much” adjustment and over focused it but I gradually pulled it back until I got a more ideal result with lux meter (on low up close) then formally re-tested at longer range with highest setting.

This tells me that additional 0.5mm added from MCPCB probably does make a difference even though it didnt appear much “sharper” to me visually. Not sure of the best way to correct this yet or if it’s worth it.

Yup, to get it right and increase the numbers seems like there is too much adjustments to do. The thicker MCPCB probably plays a role, mine is lifted a bit because of the pressure/contact of the “reflector” and the board/soldered wires.

The focusing with these Leds needs to be done carefully, adjusting the lens and all the rest in order to make it “reasonable!
Despite I like the current configuration, I am actually thinking of modding it later, eventually, probably maintaining the same driver, but replacing the led. Maybe a Luxeon or something alike… But this is just a thought, not decided yet.

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MascaratumB,

Reflector lights can’t really impress me(even 300 + kcd lights) but really nice results for that Eagle light Thumbs Up

And from your pic we can all see how “useful spill”(halo effect) from reflector light awakes your neighbors LOL on 2 buildings.

With aspheric you could lid that tree without anyone notice you…

If you guys use L4P DTP’s they are quite a bit thinner than Noctigons so maybe just slightly focus “issue” can happen here.

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luminarium iaculator wrote:
MascaratumB,

Reflector lights can’t really impress me(even 300 + kcd lights) but really nice results for that Eagle light Thumbs Up

And from your pic we can all see how “useful spill”(halo effect) from reflector light awakes your neighbors LOL on 2 buildings.

With aspheric you could lid that tree without anyone notice you…

If you guys use L4P DTP’s they are quite a bit thinner than Noctigons so maybe just slightly focus “issue” can happen here.


Thanks luminarium iaculator Wink
Well, I know some people can make that led perform better on SMO reflectors, almost having no spill. With this light and its’ reflector (that screws along with the bezel, it is the possible beam Silly

Yup, with the OTR i3 as I have it now, I would have almost no spill nor rings trying to do the same!
As for the Z821, maybe it had some rings/artifacts.

I believe that a Noctigon MCPCB would prevent some “extreme focus” as it would be even higher than the L4P. It would make the “reflector” almost unscrewable Oops

————————

Today I managed to make the Z821 a bit better. I found a 3535 gasket that helped me stabilizing the led centering, so I removed the tape it had.
I blackened the gasket, the refector, the lens and the bezel. The center of the beam improved, with less “white“noise.

I compared values with the i3/M1 (with Samsung LH351D , MTN DD driver with Crescendo, 16650 battery charged to 4.18V).
The Z821 was using a Sony VTC6 charged up to 4.12V.

Both at 5m.
i3 ——————————————————————————- Z821

LUX FC Cd
i3/M1 380 37 9500
Z821 2520 227 63000

The luxmeter “disappeared” from the image due to the beam intensity Silly

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I would not call that reflector… That is well made MCPCB retaining ring seen on plenty of aspheric light models but this is probably the best… Screwable function is surely better than unscrewable LOL Beer . We don’t want to loose that (on flashlight of course).

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luminarium iaculator wrote:
I would not call that reflector… That is well made MCPCB retaining ring seen on plenty of aspheric light models but this is probably the best… Screwable function is surely better than unscrewable LOL Beer . We don’t want to loose that (on flashlight of course).

Big Smile Big Smile I saw what you did there!

Yeah, “reflector” is not the best word/expression, but I was not finding a better one Oops
In other zoomies normally it is a plastic piece that acts as gasket too, but in this we have the proper gasket, then that metal “part” Silly
I will try to find a proper spray to make it better blackened than with a black permanent marker.

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luminarium iaculator wrote:
[…]
With aspheric you could lid that tree without anyone notice you…

[…]


I believe this is what you were referring to Wink

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contactcr wrote:
luminarium iaculator wrote:
contactcr wrote:
I will bump mine up to full 6A CC mode and re-measure lux. Really want something closer to 100kcd out of this but I guess I will have to max out the LED with new driver or switch to NM1 to get that

Osram White Flat 1 + precoolimator lens.

66.5kcd, not much improvement

This host is not worth the complexity and cost of pre-collimator lens. I may try WF1 though.

I don’t think a pre-collimator lens increases throw at all. All it does is magnify the die slightly. The result should be a slightly wider hotspot and slightly decreased throw.

If you want to increase throw in the same size light by adding something between the LED and the main lens, I think the only option is a Waiven collar.

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Firelight2 wrote:
contactcr wrote:
luminarium iaculator wrote:
contactcr wrote:
I will bump mine up to full 6A CC mode and re-measure lux. Really want something closer to 100kcd out of this but I guess I will have to max out the LED with new driver or switch to NM1 to get that

Osram White Flat 1 + precoolimator lens.

66.5kcd, not much improvement

This host is not worth the complexity and cost of pre-collimator lens. I may try WF1 though.

I don’t think a pre-collimator lens increases throw at all. All it does is magnify the die slightly. The result should be a slightly wider hotspot and slightly decreased throw.

If you want to increase throw in the same size light by adding something between the LED and the main lens, I think the only option is a Waiven collar.

Yes… Almost true

Except that with the right precoolimator lens you have 100% larger die projection without any lux loss Smile Grad

Other option is not possible for plenty of hosts and you loose most important feature of zoomie light (zoom)…

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MascaratumB wrote:
luminarium iaculator wrote:
[…]
With aspheric you could lid that tree without anyone notice you…

[…]


I believe this is what you were referring to Wink

Nice!… Now that is just right flashlight Beer plus you can zoom out to get very fine flood mode better than any usefull spill from the reflector lights. Future of flashlights is in zoomie lights…

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luminarium iaculator wrote:
Nice!… Now that is just right flashlight Beer plus you can zoom out to get very fine flood mode better than any usefull spill from the reflector lights. Future of flashlights is in zoomie lights…

Ahah, I bet some people would disagree with you concerning this statement Evil
Well, as for me, I will still have a place for zoomies in my collection Silly

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Yes.. Most people here but I don’t even doubt they will change their mind as technology develops.

Precoolimator lens should and will be also developed in a future. For know with the right precoolimator lens combination you can have 100% larger beam and higher flood mode beam intensity.

For me zoomie is high tech stuff and certainly flashlight area with a lot of thing that could be improved… This is not just “slap good reflector here and centering ring there” and wow what a “usefull spill” we have now Innocent . Zoomies are much more than that and I see lately that some sellers started to figure that out also (after 20 years)…

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I put in NM1 @ 5A and got 64kcd, not what I hoped for. I assume the PM1 used was a better bin and NM1 was worse bin

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I guess it won’t hit 100 kcd Sad

Lens on this could be redesigned for better throw… Just look how much edge “meat” stock lens have… Usable aspheric/convex part is very small…

But anyway 65kcd is more than good for that size Thumbs Up

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Direct drive + mystery Boost HX = 69kcd or 64kcd on 6A setting.

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contactcr wrote:
Direct drive + mystery Boost HX = 69kcd or 64kcd on 6A setting.

No blue light on DD? Shocked
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I used a Sanyo GA 3500mAh cell at 4.2V and it’s a 4040 LED

No blue, but it may have been over driven, not sure. I set it back to 6A cause the extra kcd wasn’t worth it.

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contactcr wrote:
I used a Sanyo GA 3500mAh cell at 4.2V and it’s a 4040 LED

No blue, but it may have been over driven, not sure. I set it back to 6A cause the extra kcd wasn’t worth it.


Oh, and now I noticed, it was the Boost Facepalm
Nice, probably a larger lens in a larger light will benefit from those settings!

I have my W2 at 6A too. I am using the OTR cell, already discharged. Not sure if it will be much different (in throw) if I lower it to 5A…

I hope to take some outdoor photos in the weekend to see how long it throws in pitch black darkness (unless Mrs. Almost Full Moon doesn’t let me Silly )

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