JoshK's Machine Made Light for the 8th Annual BLF/OL Contest

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Joshk
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MtnDon wrote:
Cheated.

As you see in the Coronavirus thread, I support rules like mask wearing because they are best for our society.
If the BLF community has a rule I think is detrimental to the group, I will peacefully protest it.
I think this is the most honorable way to participate in society/groups.

The only prize I need is my right to protest peacefully.

Edit: Shortly after this post was made the thread was locked. Later I saw the news about the riot at the capital. Perhaps others in the argument saw the news during the conversation, and misinterpreted my word choice as a nod to riot, and perhaps that aggravated the conversation. To be clear, I am totally against all events of that day. None of that was ok with me on any level.

G0OSE
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That is about the top and bottom of it. I feel exactly the same as you MtnDon.

I appreciate what you wanted to do Josh, and appreciate your entry – I do not however agree with your ‘making up your own rules’ strategy.

For example – is it ok if mine goes in hand made, or modified even though I used a lathe for parts of it? Of course it wouldn’t and I wouldn’t expect anyone to swallow the use of a lathe in hand made, it would be grossly unfair.
I started off by hand after all, and a greater deal of it was by hand than on machine – those bits took next to no time compared to the hand making parts I made at first – I made the pill 3 times, once by hand entirely – the patina work took me 2 days solid, every hour or 2 cleaning everything, redoing it etc.

I don’t entirely see the need to cheat to make your ‘point’ after all it was only you who wanted to outsource anyway if memory serves me correct.

You could have made it alongside the compo, to show people what they are missing out on to push your case for a new ‘no holds barred’ category – you know I have argued your case more than once. Even last year when judging I argued for a separate category in vain and I stuck up for your 3d printing as a judge when other judges were dead set against 3d printing, and it’s dragging down of the OL ethos – that you don’t even know about. I have not mentioned it til now as it was private.
It is a new technology that does need embracing, but this isn’t the way to do it in my opinion.

I am sorry if this upsets you – but you have upset me without even thinking twice about how this might affect others and it is obvious I am not the only one.

Joshk
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You are seriously calling a $55 piece “all holds barred”? You just wish I had made it alongside the competition so it could be ignored. This way a judge is going to address it.

G0OSE
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Joshk wrote:
You are seriously calling a $55 piece “all holds barred”? You just wish I had made it alongside the competition so it could be ignored. This way a judge is going to address it.

You really think that do you Josh? that I ‘wish’ you made it alongside so it could be ignored? get a grip.
No hold barred refers to the ‘way’ it was made, not the price of it as you know full well.
I’m pulling mine out, you can bask in your cheating effort and your ‘point making’ and I will not be entering again.
Joshk
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G0OSE wrote:
You really think that do you Josh? that I ‘wish’ you made it alongside so it could be ignored? get a grip.
G0OSE wrote:
You could have made it alongside the compo, to show people what they are missing out on to push your case for a new ‘no holds barred’ category
Sunnysunsun
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It’s tricky to make a contest fair and fun, and all but impossible to align the rules up to everyone’s contradicting preferences. I think PP has done a commendable job with all his work running and organizing the contest this year and greatly appreciate the time and effort he has put into running this fun community building event.

There was a discussion thread regarding the contest’s rules this year, and there will likely be another chance to change things up next year.

I think it would be more inclusive to allow the outsourced printing of some components because this eliminates a barrier of entry for people who don’t own such machines. It does become a very difficult gray area to judge though. At what point does it become too much and give someone an unfair advantage vs just helping them out a little bit and opening the door to allow for more participation? We should keep in mind the ultimate purpose of this competition which seems to be community building inciting friendly competition and creativity. (Correct me if I’m wrong)

Joshk, while I understand your intentions of opening our eyes to the possibilities of printed metal parts, and like I the discoveries you’ve made, I don’t think it would be fair for others to allow you to outright ignore one of the listed rules for the purpose of getting your point across.

This year’s Old Lumen’s contest compared to the threads of years past has really been a wonderful success on the front of innovation and competition. The modified light section in particular is filled with so many unique and well executed designs.

Personally I think there are some inconsistencies with the categories which certain projects have been placed. Examples include djozz’s fantastic Vir-O-blast which I really think should be in the hand made category, along with MascaratumB‘s wooden box light since they’re essentially handmade except for one little component (battery tube/pill).

There is also that excellent entry by FearOfTheDark which I think is a really well made light-up sign that she did some commendable programming for on an Atiny. In my opinion it’s simply not a flashlight and I wonder what doors it opens for future entries that stretch the definition of what a flashlight is.

In the end, I think Joshk’s light should be placed into the modified lights category to stay in line with the rules of the contest this year.

I also wonder what prizing distribution will look like into the future. If we follow last year’s lead and take winners from each category based on their placing in each category, I think we could end up with some unfairness with the categories with fewer entries.

Hypothetically, let’s suppose there were 20 entries in the machine made category which had a lot of work put into them and were fantastic projects, while the handmade category had just two entries, one of which was incomplete and barely had any work put into it. If last year’s prizing distribution is followed, then the incomplete entry from the hypothetical handmade category with just two entries would get to select a prize before almost everyone in the other categories who put in a lot more work.

Then there’s also the fact that we want people to have a shot and feel like they’ve got a good shot with their projects regardless of their experience level with modding.

All in all, it’s a tricky balancing process where it’s impossible to make everyone happy. We just have to do the best job we can, and keep the ultimate purpose of the contest in mind.

MtnDon
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For me, this comes down to rules and following them the way they are written, not the way we wish they were.

This entry is a nice, well made light. But a fairly major rule was broken. “No outside services are allowed” is quite plain, easy to comprehend English.

I am hopeful that the judges see things the same way and that his entry will be disqualified and not be elligible for any recognition or prizes.

It may be necessary to once again address the outsourcing of any services. Perhaps even the outsourcing of the manufacture of custom PCB’s should be re-considered? Maybe not, but drawing lines between what is permitted and what is not can sometimes get messy. The lines can get fuzzy.

However back on 2020/08/21 when this competition was announced the rules were all spelled out for us. Outsourcing was not permitted.

I support G0OSE in his decision to withdraw his entry, although I would modify that by making withdrawal dependent upon the judges. If the entry with the outsourced service is disqualified or withdrawn I believe G0OSE’s entry should remain. I feel strongly about that. So strongly that I will state that if the entry with outsourced service is NOT withdrawn or disqualified, I WILL withdraw my entry. My hand made entry is not affected in any direct way from the questionable entry, but to retain that entry in competition would simply be wrong. I tried very hard to follow all the posted rules. I hope I suceeded in that. To allow plain and simple rule breaking to stand offends me.

Is it just me, but I perceive the use of outside services as cheating, not as a protest?

sb56637
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Without taking sides, I’m going to step in and lock this thread for now to prevent further arguing.

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