26650 lights that can maintain 1500-2000 lumens?

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HollyBoni
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26650 lights that can maintain 1500-2000 lumens?

I would like to step up from the 700-800 lumen range because… Reasons. Big Smile
I don’t care if a flashlight can put out 1 million lumens on turbo for 2 minutes, i’m looking for something that is able to hold 1500-2000 lumens for longer periods of time. It’s not an issue if the light is on the chunkier side (it should be, because it has to be able to deal with the heat), but I don’t want to go crazy, around ~300g max. In terms of beam pattern i’m looking for a balanced beam, definitely not super throwy, I want some decent flood, but nothing crazy. Something like a Convoy M1, but if it’s a bit more floody, that would be good. I’m guessing even with a similar beam pattern, a more powerful light will have a brighter spill anyways than the M1?
I don’t need built in charging, I don’t need a super fancy UI, but more than 3 brightness steps would be nice. Budget price range. Smile I mainly want something that takes 26650s, but i’ll consider other options.

I looked at a lot of reviews and so far the only suitable light that I found is the Convoy M3. It’s cheap, good quality, and according to the reviews it can hold a rock steady 1400-1500 lumens until the battery runs out. But like most reviewers, i’m not too stoked about the super basic UI. Some extra modes between 10% and 40%, and 40% and a 100% would be nice. Is there a different driver with a better UI that works in the M3 and it’s easy to swap in (by easy I mean just soldering two wires)?

Do you guys have any other recommendations?

Thanks! Smile

Edited by: HollyBoni on 09/05/2020 - 11:59
Funtastic
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The Astrolux FT03 SST40 can maintain 2200 for 15+ minutes depending on where you live.

Nevermind, hadn’t read the whole post

Actually the FT03 with XHP50.2 on max ramp for 2000 would be something to look into

Texas Ace Lumen Tube calibrated with maukka lights

New Zealand store – https://www.piercingthedarkness.co.nz (NZ customers only)

YouTube channel – https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIUWi2vYp4CWrRkOJM70t_w/videos (Demos for my customers, and reviews)

Funtastic
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Convoy is releasing the M3 with updated UI and USB C charging soon

Texas Ace Lumen Tube calibrated with maukka lights

New Zealand store – https://www.piercingthedarkness.co.nz (NZ customers only)

YouTube channel – https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIUWi2vYp4CWrRkOJM70t_w/videos (Demos for my customers, and reviews)

HollyBoni
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Funtastic wrote:
Convoy is releasing the M3 with updated UI and USB C charging soon

That’s amazing news, thanks for the info!

The FT03 looks sweet, but the beam is a bit more narrow than I would like.

texas shooter
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I have the M3 and it will hold that level for a long time. Lots of mass, good grip handle. Be sure to use these batteries or some version that uses the same cell.
Shockli IMR26650 5500mAh or Vapcell INR26650 5500mAh

HollyBoni
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texas shooter wrote:
I have the M3 and it will hold that level for a long time. Lots of mass, good grip handle. Be sure to use these batteries or some version that uses the same cell. Shockli IMR26650 5500mAh or Vapcell INR26650 5500mAh

Thanks for the info. I think i’m going to wait for the new M3.

patmurris
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Funtastic wrote:
Convoy is releasing the M3 with updated UI and USB C charging soon

That sounds very promising. Where did you get that from?

I have a M3 and it’s a very good deal indeed – except for the UI. An updated version would be awsome.

How about the Astrolux MF01 Mini? First batch was stepping down too early because of poor heat management and design shortcomings, but the newer version should be just right. Aux leds and USB charging are the icing on the cake.

The Astrolux EC 01 is also an amazing deal but runs on 21700.

Sofirn 26650 SP33 has good reviews too i believe – i don’t own that one.

You may also want to have a look at the Emisar D4SV2.

HollyBoni
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patmurris wrote:
That sounds very promising. Where did you get that from?

I have a M3 and it’s a very good deal indeed – except for the UI. An updated version would be awsome.

How about the Astrolux MF01 Mini? First batch was stepping down too early because of poor heat management and design shortcomings, but the newer version should be just right. Aux leds and USB charging are the icing on the cake.

The Astrolux EC 01 is also an amazing deal but runs on 21700.

Sofirn 26650 SP33 has good reviews too i believe – i don’t own that one.

Thanks for the suggestions, but at least based on what I can find it looks like neither of these lights can hold the output that I want. Not a 100% sure on the MF01 tho. I found this thread here and it doesn’t look promising:

http://budgetlightforum.com/node/70329

Even after the mods it could only hold a 1000lm, just. Not sure if this light was from the first batch, and how the current stock lights compare to this modded one.

I looked at so many reviews and the M3’s ability to hold ~1400lm basically forever is starting to look better and better. I wonder if it could hold a bit more if it had a better UI with some extra steps.

CNCman
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I have a U21 that can run for a pretty good time and not get to hot or run the battery down fast.
I use a single Shockli 26650 IMR 5500mAh.
This is my daily used light for the last 6 months that had only 1 charge 6 months ago.
.
Manker U21 1560 Lumen Pocket Thrower CREE XHP35 HI LED Flashlight
.
http://www.mankerlight.com/manker-u21-1560-lumen-pocket-thrower-cree-xhp...
.


.

HollyBoni
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CNCman wrote:
I have a U21 that can run for a pretty good time and not get to hot or run the battery down fast. I use a single Shockli 26650 IMR 5500mAh. This is my daily used light for the last 6 months that had only 1 charge 6 months ago. . Manker U21 1560 Lumen Pocket Thrower CREE XHP35 HI LED Flashlight . http://www.mankerlight.com/manker-u21-1560-lumen-pocket-thrower-cree-xhp... . .

Thanks for the suggestion. It looks like a great light but it’s a bit too throwy for my liking.

geo4
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@HollyBoni: I know you want a single 26650 cell light. However, for what it’s worth this light with 4-18650s seems to run at 1500lm or so for 200 minutes… Convoy 4×18A

nocturne
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Why the heft of 26650? This svelte 91g 21700 flashlight does 3000Lm at constant brightness for “hours.” Fails in the “budget” requirement tho.

SKV89
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nocturne wrote:
Why the heft of 26650? This svelte 91g 21700 flashlight does 3000Lm at constant brightness for “hours.” Fails in the “budget” requirement tho.

Where did you get that it maintains 3000 lumens for hours??? Its output at turn on is 2,740 lumens and quickly dropping. It can maintain about 107minutes at 1,000 lumens. Still good but nowhere near 3,000 lumens for hours.

https://1lumen.com/21700-reviews/zebralight-sc700d/

nocturne
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SKV89 wrote:
Where did you get that it maintains 3000 lumens for hours???
I just completely made it up!! Pulled that one right out of my backside. jk. I got it off the product page I linked to:
Zebralight wrote:
High: H1 3000 Lm (PID, approx. hours)

Guess they didn’t test this model. Back in my day, Zebralight modes maintained constant brightness, and that’s the way we liked it!

SKV89
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Zebralights do maintain brightness after stepping down but the stepped down levels are much lower than the rated turbo output, which is typical of all flashlights. Only Olight and Fenix spec their runtimes with honest step downs on their websites and honest ANSI 30s output levels. Zebralight like Acebeam and many others exaggerate their output 20% or more above actual output.

There don’t exist any 26650 lights that can sustain 3,000 “real” OTF lumens.

nocturne
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SKV89 wrote:
Zebralights do maintain brightness after stepping down but the stepped down levels are much lower than the rated turbo output, which is typical of all flashlights. Only Olight and Fenix spec their runtimes with honest step downs on their websites and honest ANSI 30s output levels. Zebralight like Acebeam and many others exaggerate their output 20% or more above actual output.

I have never known Zebralight to exaggerate output. Generally, they are accurate with output to 2 decimal places, but this is assumes they have tested the light, which is ordinary for them to do. Looking at the SC700d product page it is pretty clear they didn’t test it yet. Also, every Zebralight product page for any flashlight that steps down indicates that it steps down. The SC700d doesn’t indicate any stepping down, which is what threw me off. Even the brightness testing curve you posted above doesn’t appear to indicate any stepping down… just rapid drop off from maximum brightness to 1000Lm, and there it appears the current regulation kicks in. That chart squeezes a lot of time in the horizontal axis, so maybe there is a tiny bit of regulation at 2500Lm, followed by an intentional step down, but it is odd that there is no mention of it on the product page.

Souichirou
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nocturne wrote:
I have never known Zebralight to exaggerate output. Generally, they are accurate with output to 2 decimal places, but this is assumes they have tested the light, which is ordinary for them to do. Looking at the SC700d product page it is pretty clear they didn’t test it yet. Also, every Zebralight product page for any flashlight that steps down indicates that it steps down. The SC700d doesn’t indicate any stepping down, which is what threw me off. Even the brightness testing curve you posted above doesn’t appear to indicate any stepping down… just rapid drop off from maximum brightness to 1000Lm, and there it appears the current regulation kicks in. That chart squeezes a lot of time in the horizontal axis, so maybe there is a tiny bit of regulation at 2500Lm, followed by an intentional step down, but it is odd that there is no mention of it on the product page.

Just a heads up the product page does list a “stepping down”, rather every zebralight product page mentions it in a similar way to the point its basically copy pasted with adjusted values for different lights.

nocturne
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Souichirou wrote:
Just a heads up the product page does list a “stepping down”, rather every zebralight product page mentions it in a similar way to the point its basically copy pasted with adjusted values for different lights.

Show me:
http://www.zebralight.com/SC700d-21700-XHP702-Neutral-White-High-CRI-Flashlight_p_233.html

If you look at the Zebralight product page for, say, SC5c II,

http://www.zebralight.com/SC5c-Mk-II-AA-Flashlight-Neutral-White-High-CRI_p_192.html

you see
“High: H1 475 Lm (3min, then 352lm, total 0.5 hr) “

Most of Zebralight model product pages have such an indication of step down in the same place (but I wouldn’t say it is copy and pasted, except where mode brightness levels are identical, which is rare).


But the product page for SC700d does not have an indicator there:
“High: H1 3000 Lm (PID, approx. hours) “

See the difference? No indication of step down. This may be an oversight by Zebralight’s web designer or marketing copy guy, but the fact is, there is no indication whatsoever of step down on the SC700d product page.

Sunnysunsun
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SKV89 wrote:
Zebralights do maintain brightness after stepping down but the stepped down levels are much lower than the rated turbo output, which is typical of all flashlights. Only Olight and Fenix spec their runtimes with honest step downs on their websites and honest ANSI 30s output levels. Zebralight like Acebeam and many others exaggerate their output 20% or more above actual output.

There don’t exist any 26650 lights that can sustain 3,000 “real” OTF lumens.

My FT03 XHP50.2 can do continuous turbo (I’ve turned off the step down) until the battery dies if I’m walking and it’s -15 or colder. Can’t say none and not specify the conditions Party

SKV89
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nocturne wrote:
SKV89 wrote:
Zebralights do maintain brightness after stepping down but the stepped down levels are much lower than the rated turbo output, which is typical of all flashlights. Only Olight and Fenix spec their runtimes with honest step downs on their websites and honest ANSI 30s output levels. Zebralight like Acebeam and many others exaggerate their output 20% or more above actual output.

I have never known Zebralight to exaggerate output. Generally, they are accurate with output to 2 decimal places, but this is assumes they have tested the light, which is ordinary for them to do. Looking at the SC700d product page it is pretty clear they didn’t test it yet. Also, every Zebralight product page for any flashlight that steps down indicates that it steps down. The SC700d doesn’t indicate any stepping down, which is what threw me off. Even the brightness testing curve you posted above doesn’t appear to indicate any stepping down… just rapid drop off from maximum brightness to 1000Lm, and there it appears the current regulation kicks in. That chart squeezes a lot of time in the horizontal axis, so maybe there is a tiny bit of regulation at 2500Lm, followed by an intentional step down, but it is odd that there is no mention of it on the product page.

Here’s an example. Per Maukka’s review of the H600Fc Mk4, (1124 lumens measured @30s vs. 1568 advertised). Maukka is one of the most reputable member here with a super expensive, validated integrated sphere. But keep in mind Zebralight is not the only one. Almost all of the manufacturer’s lumen ratings are 15%-25% higher than actual as if it’s the industry standard. Only Fenix and Olight lumen specs are accurate and sometimes even conservative.

SKV89
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Sunnysunsun wrote:
SKV89 wrote:
Zebralights do maintain brightness after stepping down but the stepped down levels are much lower than the rated turbo output, which is typical of all flashlights. Only Olight and Fenix spec their runtimes with honest step downs on their websites and honest ANSI 30s output levels. Zebralight like Acebeam and many others exaggerate their output 20% or more above actual output.

There don’t exist any 26650 lights that can sustain 3,000 “real” OTF lumens.

My FT03 XHP50.2 can do continuous turbo (I’ve turned off the step down) until the battery dies if I’m walking and it’s -15 or colder. Can’t none and not specify the conditions Party

The FT03 with XHP50.2 cannot maintain anywhere near turbo output

https://zeroair.org/2019/08/02/astrolux-ft03-luminus-cree-xhp50-2-flashl...

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Sunnysunsun wrote:
SKV89 wrote:

My FT03 XHP50.2 can do continuous turbo (I’ve turned off the step down) until the battery dies if I’m walking and it’s -15 or colder. Can’t say none and not specify the conditions Party

The FT03 with XHP50.2 cannot maintain anywhere near turbo output

Did you read my entire post? It most certainly can when it’s sufficiently cold out, and there’s airflow.

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PID means that output is adjusted by PID (proportional, integral, differential derivative, for the components in the feedback formula to avoid oscillation) controller to avoid overheating, so runtime and output will strongly depend on room temperature and ventilation, output certainly won’t be constant.

Edit: PID link on Wikipedia

nocturne
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SKV89 wrote:
Here’s an example. Per Maukka’s review of the H600Fc Mk4, (1124 lumens measured @30s vs. 1568 advertised). Maukka is one of the most reputable member here with a super expensive, validated integrated sphere. But keep in mind Zebralight is not the only one. Almost all of the manufacturer’s lumen ratings are 15%-25% higher than actual as if it’s the industry standard. Only Fenix and Olight lumen specs are accurate and sometimes even conservative.

Hasty generalization. Look at what Maukka actually says,

maukka wrote:
Just briefly tested one H600Fc Mk4 sample, thanks Kaybi.

Just like on most frosted ZL’s, output is quite far from specified (1124 lumens measured @30s vs. 1568 advertised).

Why wouldn’t Maukka just say what you’re saying, that all Zebralight’s numbers are exaggerated?


ggf31416 wrote:
PID means that output is adjusted by PID (proportional, integral, differential, for the components in the feedback formula to avoid oscillation) controller to avoid overheating, so runtime and output will strongly depend on room temperature and ventilation, output certainly won’t be constant.

I was wondering about PID, appreciate the explanation, but the conclusion “output certainly won’t be constant” doesn’t follow unless you add some qualifiers, like 100° ambient temperatures.

The output graph SKV89 posted from 1lumen.com appears to show some remarkably constant output at 1000Lm. I wish it showed more resolution on what was happening in the first 5 minutes.

SKV89
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Sunnysunsun wrote:
Sunnysunsun wrote:
SKV89 wrote:

My FT03 XHP50.2 can do continuous turbo (I’ve turned off the step down) until the battery dies if I’m walking and it’s -15 or colder. Can’t say none and not specify the conditions Party

The FT03 with XHP50.2 cannot maintain anywhere near turbo output

Did you read my entire post? It most certainly can when it’s sufficiently cold out, and there’s airflow.

The human eyes are poor at gauging lumens. If you measure the actual output using equipment, even if there is good airflow and cold weather, the output will still fall and it will not be able to maintain anywhere turbo output.

Sunnysunsun
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SKV89 wrote:
The human eyes are poor at gauging lumens. If you measure the actual output using equipment, even if there is good airflow and cold weather, the output will still fall and it will not be able to maintain anywhere turbo output.

How much will the output really fall though? Just due to voltage sag? The 50.2 has a pretty low Vf. Otherwise it’s just going full FET with step down disabled.

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ggf31416
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The objective of PID is avoiding output and temperature oscillations (and overshoot) that happen with simpler controllers (i.e. the flashlight overheats, output decreases, the flashlight cooldowns,then output increases again), it will be as constant as possible but it won’t be constant over the entire discharge. That they say output is regulated by PID means that the initial output won’t be sustained (unless the room temperature is cool enough) – they wouldn’t need to say that otherwise.

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nocturne wrote:

Show me:
http://www.zebralight.com/SC700d-21700-XHP702-Neutral-White-High-CRI-Flashlight_p_233.html

If you look at the Zebralight product page for, say, SC5c II,

http://www.zebralight.com/SC5c-Mk-II-AA-Flashlight-Neutral-White-High-CRI_p_192.html

you see
“High: H1 475 Lm (3min, then 352lm, total 0.5 hr) “

Most of Zebralight model product pages have such an indication of step down in the same place (but I wouldn’t say it is copy and pasted, except where mode brightness levels are identical, which is rare).


But the product page for SC700d does not have an indicator there:
“High: H1 3000 Lm (PID, approx. hours) “

See the difference? No indication of step down. This may be an oversight by Zebralight’s web designer or marketing copy guy, but the fact is, there is no indication whatsoever of step down on the SC700d product page.

Well you see there is only TWO lights on zebralights product pages that show your example and they are AA lights and EVEN then they are an outlier as out of their entire lineup of AA lights only the SC5c and SC5w present the example you mentioned. Now if you look at EVERY lithium variant it WILL list something along the lines of “High: H1 X Lm (PID, Y hrs)”. When I said its basically copy pasted look at everything under “Main features” everything is identical for essentially every light they just plug in lumen values and dimensions of protect that is to say they use a template so they wouldn’t leave things out by mistake its designed for simplicity.

Case and point :

Zebralight SC64w HI 18650 XHP35 = High: H1 1300 Lm

Zebralight SC600w Mk IV Plus 18650 XHP50.2 = High: H1 2300 Lm

Zebralight SC600F Mk IV Plus 18650 XHP50 = High: H1 2260 Lm

Do you see what I mean now ?

nocturne
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We were talking about SC700d, and you made an assertion that wasn’t true about SC700d product page. I never disagreed with what you were saying, except about the SC700d product page. Now you’ve posted examples of other models product pages that also don’t list step down. What are you doing? I’m missing your point. That standardizing their product pages means ZL is lazy? Where are we going with this?

Majoroverkill
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MascaratumB wrote:
Jaxman X2 http://budgetlightforum.com/node/73228

I really like this torch, it looks solid and has a magnetic tail cap like the D4SV2. For the price I might pick one up next week.

Doug S.

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