FireflyLite E12R 12*emitters 15000LM 1x21700 Flashlight

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The_Flashaholic wrote:
There is flicker on both the NOV-Mu and E12R under 20 lumens or so
Facepalm Big Smile

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TSO
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OK…I’m pretty disappointed. And, wondering if I’ve done something wrong to my E12R.
I have this version – Emitter type: Samsung LH351D 5700K W2 CRI80 – and it’s my first higher CRI light. Here’s what’s up…

I go on 1 mile walks every night, and take a light. I don’t use it constantly, just periodically to light up an area for safety, etc. I probably use the light a total of 30-45 seconds on each walk. I’ve had my E12R about a month. Over the last couple of weeks, its seems that the light has not been very bright. i would fiddle around to make sure I was in turbo, check the battery levels, etc. But everything checked out – it just seemed the light was not very impressive. I just chalked it up to getting used to it, no big deal. However, it nagged me enough that tonight I decided to get out some other lights and do some checking. The result –

With fresh cells in both (Molicel p42a and Samsung 30q), my new E12R was just.about.as.bright as my 3 year old Emisar D4 (XP-L HI V3) Sad
I changed batteries with some topped off ones, same models, and the same result.
I checked against my Fireflies E07, and the E07 was definitely brighter by a bit. Thinking I had messed up a setting in Anduril 2, i’ve spent the last hour and half going over all the configuration settings, and I can’t find anything that speaks to configuring or limiting Turbo. And, I’m definitely in turbo mode – I’m not fond of Anduril 2’s turbo access of ramping up to the top of the ramp, THEN double clicking to turbo. At least in my iteration, you CAN’T get to turbo anywhere in the ramp except from the top. i CAN access turbo with 2H momentary method (along with the ramp up, 2c method).

And turbo is just about as bright as my D4 (4000lm), and not as bright as my EO7 (7000 lumens). Both those lights are high K LED’s, so not as high a CRI as the E12R…but that shouldn’t make that big a difference.
SO, I’ve probably got a total of ten – twelve minutes of “on” time with this light, probably around a 1-2 of turbo – Could the LED’s be damaged in some way?
Is there a programming issue I’m missing? I’ve done the hard reset, no change really.

Help? Jack, any thoughts? Really disappointed, especially after being an early adopter and waiting for about two months to get this light.

gchart
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I don’t think you’ve damaged the LEDs. Texas_Ace took them up to 10 amps in his output test and they still worked afterwards. There’s no way you’d get anywhere near that with 12 of them.

One thing worth considering, the LH351D is a very floody LED, whereas the XP-L HI you’re comparing against is very throwy. It’s difficult to compare those side by side with ours eyes to draw a meaningful lumens comparison conclusion. I’m not saying you’re wrong, I just imagine that you might be seeing a high light concentration (candela) from your D4, not necessarily more lumens.

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@TSO

How are you measuring or interpreting brightness?
The LH351d LED is very floody, so if used outdoors, will feel substantially less powerful than a light half as bright set up with something like xp-L hi.

What LED do you have in your E07?

To get a true guage of brightness, without any proper tools, you need to use it indoors and ceiling bounce the light.

TSO
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Pavlo wrote:
@TSO

How are you measuring or interpreting brightness?
The LH351d LED is very floody, so if used outdoors, will feel substantially less powerful than a light half as bright set up with something like xp-L hi.

What LED do you have in your E07?

To get a true guage of brightness, without any proper tools, you need to use it indoors and ceiling bounce the light.

The E07 also has XPL HI 3 LED’s I believe. But the testing was done in darkness inside with ceiling bounce off a white ceiling around 10’ up. Also tested outdoors in a snow covered neighborhood.
I tested against an imalent d70 as well, which is also around 4200lm, same results.
The thing is, when I first got it, I thought it was brighter. I didn’t do any side by side testing, but I’m very familiar with the performance of my older lights, and when I first used the E12R, my impression was it was brighter than all my “mid level” lights.

zoulas
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Every consider it may be in muggle mode? The Andruil software is fantastic as long as it working, but when you inadvertently change something, you will curse it over and over. You try a reset?

The_Flashaholic
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There is also flicker on the T9R but very minor.

My 4K Lumen Whore Reviews (MS18, X70, MS12, DX80, X80-GT, X45vn etc) - http://www.youtube.com/c/FLASHAHOLIC_TV

mortuus
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TSO wrote:
OK…I’m pretty disappointed. And, wondering if I’ve done something wrong to my E12R.
I have this version – Emitter type: Samsung LH351D 5700K W2 CRI80 – and it’s my first higher CRI light. Here’s what’s up…

I go on 1 mile walks every night, and take a light. I don’t use it constantly, just periodically to light up an area for safety, etc. I probably use the light a total of 30-45 seconds on each walk. I’ve had my E12R about a month. Over the last couple of weeks, its seems that the light has not been very bright. i would fiddle around to make sure I was in turbo, check the battery levels, etc. But everything checked out – it just seemed the light was not very impressive. I just chalked it up to getting used to it, no big deal. However, it nagged me enough that tonight I decided to get out some other lights and do some checking. The result –

With fresh cells in both (Molicel p42a and Samsung 30q), my new E12R was just.about.as.bright as my 3 year old Emisar D4 (XP-L HI V3) Sad
I changed batteries with some topped off ones, same models, and the same result.
I checked against my Fireflies E07, and the E07 was definitely brighter by a bit. Thinking I had messed up a setting in Anduril 2, i’ve spent the last hour and half going over all the configuration settings, and I can’t find anything that speaks to configuring or limiting Turbo. And, I’m definitely in turbo mode – I’m not fond of Anduril 2’s turbo access of ramping up to the top of the ramp, THEN double clicking to turbo. At least in my iteration, you CAN’T get to turbo anywhere in the ramp except from the top. i CAN access turbo with 2H momentary method (along with the ramp up, 2c method).

And turbo is just about as bright as my D4 (4000lm), and not as bright as my EO7 (7000 lumens). Both those lights are high K LED’s, so not as high a CRI as the E12R…but that shouldn’t make that big a difference.
SO, I’ve probably got a total of ten – twelve minutes of “on” time with this light, probably around a 1-2 of turbo – Could the LED’s be damaged in some way?
Is there a programming issue I’m missing? I’ve done the hard reset, no change really.

Help? Jack, any thoughts? Really disappointed, especially after being an early adopter and waiting for about two months to get this light.

Try do a ceiling bounce test download some light meter app on phone and try on your lights, its weird even if floody that light it should still be plenty bright with those batteries..

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TSO
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mortuus wrote:
TSO wrote:
OK…I’m pretty disappointed. And, wondering if I’ve done something wrong to my E12R.
I have this version – Emitter type: Samsung LH351D 5700K W2 CRI80 – and it’s my first higher CRI light. Here’s what’s up…

I go on 1 mile walks every night, and take a light. I don’t use it constantly, just periodically to light up an area for safety, etc. I probably use the light a total of 30-45 seconds on each walk. I’ve had my E12R about a month. Over the last couple of weeks, its seems that the light has not been very bright. i would fiddle around to make sure I was in turbo, check the battery levels, etc. But everything checked out – it just seemed the light was not very impressive. I just chalked it up to getting used to it, no big deal. However, it nagged me enough that tonight I decided to get out some other lights and do some checking. The result –

With fresh cells in both (Molicel p42a and Samsung 30q), my new E12R was just.about.as.bright as my 3 year old Emisar D4 (XP-L HI V3) Sad
I changed batteries with some topped off ones, same models, and the same result.
I checked against my Fireflies E07, and the E07 was definitely brighter by a bit. Thinking I had messed up a setting in Anduril 2, i’ve spent the last hour and half going over all the configuration settings, and I can’t find anything that speaks to configuring or limiting Turbo. And, I’m definitely in turbo mode – I’m not fond of Anduril 2’s turbo access of ramping up to the top of the ramp, THEN double clicking to turbo. At least in my iteration, you CAN’T get to turbo anywhere in the ramp except from the top. i CAN access turbo with 2H momentary method (along with the ramp up, 2c method).

And turbo is just about as bright as my D4 (4000lm), and not as bright as my EO7 (7000 lumens). Both those lights are high K LED’s, so not as high a CRI as the E12R…but that shouldn’t make that big a difference.
SO, I’ve probably got a total of ten – twelve minutes of “on” time with this light, probably around a 1-2 of turbo – Could the LED’s be damaged in some way?
Is there a programming issue I’m missing? I’ve done the hard reset, no change really.

Help? Jack, any thoughts? Really disappointed, especially after being an early adopter and waiting for about two months to get this light.

Try do a ceiling bounce test download some light meter app on phone and try on your lights, its weird even if floody that light it should still be plenty bright with those batteries..


I did use a ceiling bounce test to compare. I didn’t have an app to measure, but didn’t need to really – it was pretty evident visually, even though I know that can be subjective.
Its just you would think that a light listed at 12-13K lumens would be obviously brighter than a light listed at 4k lumens.
Either something is amiss in the software/electronics, or something is wrong with the LED’s not putting out what was expected. Its not the batteries.
TSO
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SKV89 wrote:
People like CRI because once you compare FF’s high CRI (besides the LH351D 4000K), you will see how much nicer and more welcoming the light renders your surrounding compared with low quality lighting. If you want high output, I recommend the E12R 5700k 80CRI. It will have high output but at least not piss poor color compared with the typical low cri CW lights.

That’s the exact version I have, and not too happy with it at the moment. I bought the light specifically because of the advertised high output per form factor. I have lots of lights in that approximate size that put out around 4000 lumens, of various color tints.
If you see my above posts, this E12R appears to out out around the same amount of light as those, and somewhat less usable because the beam pattern is pretty floody so there’s no real “aiming” of the light anywhere. On my night walks through my neighborhood and nearby park, the areas I regularly illuminate (under a bridge, A gazebo, down a dark trail head, etc). Are simple not lit as well as when I’ve used some other small lights, despite the advertised 4x greater lumen output. Noticing this is what put me up to doing a comparison.

That said, its a beautifully made light, and I don’t seem to have or notice the flicker at lowest ramp that some have, and I’m getting used to Anduril2.
However, if I could have seen earlier the comparison I’ve now performed, I wouldn’t have purchased it. I have too many 4k lumen lights as it is!

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TSO wrote:
the beam pattern is pretty floody so there’s no real “aiming” of the light anywhere.

This is the primary issue. You cannot simply look at lumens you must also consider candela (cd or kcd commonly in the stats, “throw”). Comparing lumens to lumens is only useful for things like round light bulbs where the light is completely diffused in all directions.

In fact if you are trying to see under a bridge or down a dark trail a floody light can work against you even if it was 20x brighter. By the time the increase in lumens “reaches” out far enough it has probably made things close up TOO bright causing reflections and your own pupils to work against you. You mention snow, yea, that’s reflective for sure.

In fact a ~1,000 lumen zoomie could easily see down a long trail better than your 4,000 lumen multi-LED light of any kind. It’s a balance though cause that would be a poor choice for walking since it’s not good for lighting up your feet at all.

TSO
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contactcr wrote:
TSO wrote:
the beam pattern is pretty floody so there’s no real “aiming” of the light anywhere.

This is the primary issue. You cannot simply look at lumens you must also consider candela (cd or kcd commonly in the stats, “throw”). Comparing lumens to lumens is only useful for things like round light bulbs where the light is completely diffused in all directions.

In fact if you are trying to see under a bridge or down a dark trail a floody light can work against you even if it was 20x brighter. By the time the increase in lumens “reaches” out far enough it has probably made things close up TOO bright causing reflections and your own pupils to work against you. You mention snow, yea, that’s reflective for sure.

In fact a ~1,000 lumen zoomie could easily see down a long trail better than your 4,000 lumen multi-LED light of any kind. It’s a balance though cause that would be a poor choice for walking since it’s not good for lighting up your feet at all.

Yeah…no. Smile
I hear what you are saying, but I’m not a novice. The 6 years or so and the use of the 30 lights on the shelf as well as the excellent discussions and information in this forum the last few years have prepared me for what to expect. It’s just not performing as it should. I have floody EDC lights in the 3800 lumen range which are performing at about the same level. I spent time on the UI last night – did hard resets several times, changed the ramp percentages, etc, to no change.

If you needed more convincing – I can access turbo through either the 2hold or the 2click from top of ramp method, hold turbo for 30-40 seconds, and the light only gets moderately warm. My E07 or the D4, or any other of my high performance lights would be pretty scalding by 30 seconds, but not this E12R…only slightly warm. Tell me THAT doesn’t set off some “something’s amiss” alarm bells! Shocked

It feels almost like a bad cell, but I have four 21700 cells from three different manufacturers that I have topped off and tried in it – all about the same.
It’s a mystery.
I’d love to see anyone with the same configuration do a side by side comparison with their other lights to see see if they notice anything similar.

contactcr
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After 6 years I guess it’s time to invest in a $20 lux meter or clamp meter. Wink It wasn’t clear to me that you were so certain it was an error and not buyer’s remorse.

TSO
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Yeah, probably, lol!
I do have access to lots of light meters, as in my job I’m with guys who hang theatrical lights and do lighting design for a living. Was having lunch with a couple today from my team, and mentioned my experience. They said to bring it with me next time and we could run some tests.
When Texas Ace modded my Haikelite Mt09R a couple of years back, I ALMOST bought the tube integration sphere that was being offered for $100 at the time. Didn’t get around to it, as i had never had any reason to doubt the lights I had bought. Now kinda wishing I had…
Thanks for engaging. Wish I had some answers.

contactcr
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In this case since you dont have those tools the next best thing is so start cleaning and tightening. If you have isopropyl take it and clean springs, threads, tighten any driver rings, everything. Good luck

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TSO wrote:
hold turbo for 30-40 seconds, and the light only gets moderately warm

Sounds like bad temperature calibration. Or maybe bad LED reflow.

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g_damian wrote:
TSO wrote:
hold turbo for 30-40 seconds, and the light only gets moderately warm

Sounds like bad temperature calibration. Or maybe bad LED reflow.

With Nichia 219 in turbo (2H from off) it become extremely hot and you can try to listen if there is a sound click inside the head like a relè in the exact moment the turbo start.. or put it in strobe mode and you can listen a click

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I am reading all these posts about this light and I cant figure if its internally defective or not. It seems there is slight flicker. Normal? Yes/No?

Also is it possible that some users went down the wrong Andruil path and locked themselves out?

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zoulas wrote:
I am reading all these posts about this light and I cant figure if its internally defective or not. It seems there is slight flicker. Normal? Yes/No?

Also is it possible that some users went down the wrong Andruil path and locked themselves out?

The same flicker is in the Noctigon KR4 on level 1

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TSO
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g_damian wrote:
TSO wrote:
hold turbo for 30-40 seconds, and the light only gets moderately warm

Sounds like bad temperature calibration. Or maybe bad LED reflow.

Temp calibration – that’s one thing I haven’t tried yet. I winder if its set in a way that would basically deny it from going full turbo. If the scale-down temp was set at a level below room temperature, would that effectively lock out turbo? Its one more thing to check, I guess. I’d since run out of ideas. Thanks

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These lights shouldn’t need thermal calibration. Instead of using the attiny for temp measurement (known to vary wildly), these us an external no-calibration-needed thermal sensor.

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I always reconfigure thermal calibration so I didn’t belive the “this new one doesn’t need it” and checked. Mine was about 6 degrees off. So much for factory calibration…

Except for this the flashlight is wonderful. Besides its specific features, all building shortcomings I found in other FF models were corrected. Another excelent detail for me is that the springs don’t need to have low resistance, this is important for turbo. They also are quite stiff and provide good contact even for flat top unprotected batteries; this is a problem is recent E07 editions.

I also like Anduril 2, it has several new features that I find quite useful. I use hybrid memory mode extensively.

SKV89
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TSO wrote:
OK…I’m pretty disappointed. And, wondering if I’ve done something wrong to my E12R.
I have this version – Emitter type: Samsung LH351D 5700K W2 CRI80 – and it’s my first higher CRI light. Here’s what’s up…

I go on 1 mile walks every night, and take a light. I don’t use it constantly, just periodically to light up an area for safety, etc. I probably use the light a total of 30-45 seconds on each walk. I’ve had my E12R about a month. Over the last couple of weeks, its seems that the light has not been very bright. i would fiddle around to make sure I was in turbo, check the battery levels, etc. But everything checked out – it just seemed the light was not very impressive. I just chalked it up to getting used to it, no big deal. However, it nagged me enough that tonight I decided to get out some other lights and do some checking. The result –

With fresh cells in both (Molicel p42a and Samsung 30q), my new E12R was just.about.as.bright as my 3 year old Emisar D4 (XP-L HI V3) Sad
I changed batteries with some topped off ones, same models, and the same result.
I checked against my Fireflies E07, and the E07 was definitely brighter by a bit. Thinking I had messed up a setting in Anduril 2, i’ve spent the last hour and half going over all the configuration settings, and I can’t find anything that speaks to configuring or limiting Turbo. And, I’m definitely in turbo mode – I’m not fond of Anduril 2’s turbo access of ramping up to the top of the ramp, THEN double clicking to turbo. At least in my iteration, you CAN’T get to turbo anywhere in the ramp except from the top. i CAN access turbo with 2H momentary method (along with the ramp up, 2c method).

And turbo is just about as bright as my D4 (4000lm), and not as bright as my EO7 (7000 lumens). Both those lights are high K LED’s, so not as high a CRI as the E12R…but that shouldn’t make that big a difference.
SO, I’ve probably got a total of ten – twelve minutes of “on” time with this light, probably around a 1-2 of turbo – Could the LED’s be damaged in some way?
Is there a programming issue I’m missing? I’ve done the hard reset, no change really.

Help? Jack, any thoughts? Really disappointed, especially after being an early adopter and waiting for about two months to get this light.

Either something is wrong with your light or you are doing something wrong. I have half a dozen D4 and over a dozen E07. The E12R is surely brighter than the E07 and much brighter than the D4. Did you try wiping all the contacts with isopropyl alcohol? If not, give it a try.

Skylight
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Does the E12R include the 22430 tube and battery like in the review on 1lumen.com?

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Skylight wrote:
Does the E12R include the 22430 tube and battery like in the review on 1lumen.com?

I believe not. I think gchart got the tube and battery because it was a review sample. The tube doesn’t look quite complete yet Sad It looks like there’s going to be a screw on clip but we’ve heard no word of it

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How do your E12Rs’ MCPCBs look? I received my the NOV-MU and the E12R today. My NOV-MU is working perfectly but my E12R’s 219bs aren’t turning on. The battery should have a good connection because power is working since the aux lights turn on, and I’m pretty sure my switch is working because the aux lights are turning off when I press the switch. I don’t see any flashes of the main LEDs I connect the battery tube like I do with my NOV.

I opened up the head to take a look inside and do some cleaning since the optics looked like they had some dirt in them.

These big solder joints look pretty bad so I’m thinking maybe one of them is a cold joint.
All this dust and debris was from the light itself since I took these photos right after opening the head up. My nov-mu’s mcpcb is really clean but I’m disappointed with how dirty my E12R’s mcpcb looks.

Edit: light is working in turbo but regular modes do not work. I believe I will receive a replacement head.

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I had the problem of a not connected solder joint once in a Fireflies E07. Try to press the solder joints down with your finger and see if the main lights turn on. That white cable looks suspicious. I hope you have a soldering iron or this will be difficult to fix.

With errors like this I am really wondering about Fireflies’ QC which should discover such things.

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Skylight wrote:
I had the problem of a not connected solder joint once in a Fireflies E07. Try to press the solder joints down with your finger and see if the main lights turn on. That white cable looks suspicious. I hope you have a soldering iron or this will be difficult to fix.

With errors like this I am really wondering about Fireflies’ QC which should discover such things.

I just did that as well as the usual troubleshooting steps of cleaning the threads as well as a reset (I think it has been reset since I did the same procedure of resetting which worked with the Nov-Mu and I can no longer change the aux lights which seems to indicate it’s in simple mode). Still no sign of the revered 219bs turning on.

On a side note, I am not impressed with the threads fireflies chose. The anodized head ones are super thin and make me worry about cross threading it every time I change the battery. My D4V2 feels the same way but at least it has anodized tail threads and changing the battery by the tail side on that is a very smooth feeling process. Fireflies chose unannodized tail threads and they GRIND, even with lube.
My Nov-Mu’s anodized threads at the head are already wearing away. The light was already blinking rapidly as connection was completed and lost from the anodizing wearing off at the threads, the second time I ever inserted a battery into the light!

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The question for FF, but not E12R )

How many х7135 is in ROT66 ii? (SST20/4000)
The current in 7th level is about 5,6А (That’s more than 8×7135), but in Anduril config file for ROT66 ii is 7th level fully regulated

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