FireflyLite E12R 12*emitters 15000LM 1x21700 Flashlight

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SKV89
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iamlucky13 wrote:
SKV89 wrote:
For example they will use an expensive Loneocean driver designed for FF. The Loneocean FW3A driver is sold for a whopping $25.

Is this for certain? I’m looking, but I don’t see a statement from either Jackie or Loneoceans about it being a Lume1 variant. Just the first post stating it will be a buck driver.

That is awesome if true.

Hopefully it would be upgraded with reverse polarity protection.

I don’t know the details besides it is a Loneocean driver. Jack said he wants to really up the level of his new lights and decided to go with the much more expensive driver among other improvements despite losing price competitiveness with the budget brands.

Robin Dobbie
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SKV89 wrote:
But regardless, you are comparing the linear dimensions not the volume. For example a 20% increase in the radius of a sphere equates to 73% increase in the volume. Even if the 2D dimensions don’t seem that much bigger, they are much bigger when you see and hold them in person. The size increase of the FT02s vs the E12R puts it in another size class. The E12R will still manage to fit in many pockets but the FT02s will require very large pockets.

And you’re comparing a sphere to a flashlight. And the difference in diameter isn’t but barely over half what you used in your example 14.5%. The Astro is barely over a quarter inch larger in diameter. 7mm. They’re in the same size class. Sorry, they just are.

Reminds me, when I was comparing different popcans and was wondering about if something new with 30,000 lumens was coming soon, you suggested the Lumentop GT4. LOL Compared to a D18 or X80GT which I was considering. Didn’t seem so obsessed with minute size differences, then.

Now I one thing I did notice is the weight of the Astro is 275g where as the FF is 175g. So that’s huge. But, they’re not headlamps. If the extra weight of the Astro helps it maintain turbo a smidge longer, will that make it more of a tool?

Miguel_79
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Robin Dobbie wrote:
They’re in the same size class. Sorry, they just are.

I’m sorry, but I can’t agree with you on that.

Robin Dobbie
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All I have are AA and 18650 lights. Then some big-ass D-cell Maglites that I don’t use because I’ll probably never get around to modding them. So my flashaholic size-classes might not be well established. But I feel like both these new lights are large enough to be at least slightly uncomfortable to pocket. The Astro might be slightly more uncomfortable, but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

klrman
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Is it really in stock as the FF website says and is the LH351D 5000K?

SKV89
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Robin Dobbie wrote:

Now I one thing I did notice is the weight of the Astro is 275g where as the FF is 175g. So that’s huge. But, they’re not headlamps. If the extra weight of the Astro helps it maintain turbo a smidge longer, will that make it more of a tool?

Arguing the size is pointless as it is subjective. Some people feel the D18 is pocketable while some feel a D4 is at the limit for being EDC. If you feel they are the same size class, then you are entitled to your own opinion.

The weight of the FT02s would help theoretically but due to the budget non-regulated driver, it will not be able to make use of the mass and sustain output very well. Even my MT09R weighing 650g gradually drops down to about 200 lumens in like 10 minutes. That’s the problem with these budget lights using budget drivers. The Olight and Fenix with their efficient regulated driver can sustain output far better than the budget brands despite turbo is being much less than the budget brands. The E12R with the Lume driver should be able to sustain output better than the FT02S despite the smaller mass.

Pip
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The ft02s is like an ft03 with a slightly smaller head. The e12r is an e07 with a slightly larger head. See what I did there? Wink

Robin Dobbie
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SKV89 wrote:
due to the budget non-regulated driver, it will not be able to make use of the mass and sustain output very well.

They both have single-cell anemia, so I have to wonder how well they’d hold up even with full regulation and artificial cooling. There’s only so many watt-hours, anyway.

I did kinda assume that most lights were like the FW3A and D4 in that they had some regulation at like 150 lumens or something. So it looks like with the Astro, even just maintaining that would require constant user intervention to ramp up. Tired

Th558
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Wouldn’t it have made more sense to go with a 6v boost driver? The MS03 is fully regulated and costs less than the XPL-2 E12R. I’m thinking maybe I should get that instead.

Robin Dobbie
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Well I don’t know how comparable that light is. Only 20kcd(measured by Flashaholic youtube). Not even 11000lm measured. Wall of light. Barely more kcd than the D4 with just 3000lm which I already think is a smidge floody. Plus the UI. Plus the fact Imalent are spamming fucks. No thanks.

Th558
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Robin Dobbie wrote:
Well I don’t know how comparable that light is. Only 20kcd(measured by Flashaholic youtube). Not even 11000lm measured. Wall of light. Barely more kcd than the D4 with just 3000lm which I already think is a smidge floody. Plus the UI. Plus the fact Imalent are spamming fucks. No thanks.

True but I’m still surprised it costs more than the MS03. I can get the MS03 for $110.45 so $17.55 cheaper. I guess I’ll just wait for a compact 4x XHP50.2 light.
Robin Dobbie
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…with regulated driver.

will34
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Th558 wrote:
True but I’m still surprised it costs more than the MS03. I can get the MS03 for $110.45 so $17.55 cheaper. I guess I’ll just wait for a compact 4x XHP50.2 light.

But why can’t it cost more than the MS03? More emitters, a driver design that’s less prone to fail, way better tint and auxiliary LEDs.

Immalent lights are not particularly well built and “MS03 flashlight problems” is the second most searched keyword for it. Peak lumens are meaningless when compared on paper, a 5,000lm thrower can look brighter than a 13,000lm flooder.

contactcr
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Beam shape and tint aside it’s actually more comparable than you think. 3x XHP 70.2 = 12 dies and boost vs buck driver.

The E12R isn’t going to be throwy either (not even a little) so best to get rid of those dreams now.

Granted I would never buy the Imalent personally on paper it has some similarities.

Robin Dobbie
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But uh, 19.6kcd vs 40-55kcd of the ROT66 if the TIRs are even comparable to the E12R? MS03 is not just floody, it’s a superflooder.

Pip
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Judging from the pictures this TIR is probably much better than the rot66.

contactcr
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Robin Dobbie wrote:
But uh, 19.6kcd vs 40-55kcd of the ROT66 if the TIRs are even comparable to the E12R? MS03 is not just floody, it’s a superflooder.

That is with CW SST-20 or Osram and may be slightly overrated too. Also, ROT66 has 3 batteries and 15 degree optic vs 1 battery (albeit higher drain, still not as good as 3×18650) and 30 degree optic.

Again, this light is not a thrower regardless of LED choice.

Artiet59
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Miguel_79 wrote:
Robin Dobbie wrote:
They’re in the same size class. Sorry, they just are.

I’m sorry, but I can’t agree with you on that.


I think those two pictures are misleading (not on you, just not meant to be compared I guess?) Holding at different angles and one being held with two fingers Maes it look much smaller.

I think of it as comparing a C8 to a KR1.. same class? I don’t know? meaning it is subjective and how do you view flashlight carrying.. I think once something is not pocket carry-able (in jeans) then it is a different class. thats just me. although I don’t seen either of these being carried on a clip in my jeans, they both look too big for that. the X9L is the max size I would or will carry in my jeans pocket.

SKV89
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Robin Dobbie wrote:
So it looks like with the Astro, even just maintaining that would require constant user intervention to ramp up. Tired

Yep that’s the biggest issue I have with these non regulated drivers. I use my lights for long durations and sometimes tailstand them as work lights. Here are some comparisons between large lights with unregulated drivers vs small lights with regulated drivers.

FT03S SBT90.2 weighing 298g stabilizes at 141 lumens
https://1lumen.com/review/astrolux-ft03s/

Emisar D18 SST20 4000K weighing 343g drops to about 500 lumens
https://1lumen.com/18650-reviews/emisar-d18/

Olight Warrior Mini with SST40 weighing a miniscule 55.8g stabilizes at 530 lumens for almost 4 hours!
https://1lumen.com/review/olight-warrior-mini/

Astrolux FT03 XHP50.2 weighing 295g maintains average 500 lumens even with fan cooling for 2 hours on a 21700. This is about half the runtime of the 18650 Olight Warrior Mini despite the Olight uses a less efficient emitter and less battery capacity. That’s the beauty of having a high quality driver.
https://zeroair.org/2019/08/02/astrolux-ft03-luminus-cree-xhp50-2-flashl...

Lumintop FW21 Pro 3xXHP50.2 weighing 120g stabilizes at 200 lumens with fan cooling.
https://zeroair.org/2020/06/23/lumintop-fw21-pro-flashlight-review/

Despite the Olight Warrior Mini weighing a small fraction of the other lights, have the least surface area (most important for shedding heat), and uses a less efficient emitter than the rest, it sustains higher output and is much more efficient (area under the curve) than the rest. I just wish more flashlight fans understand the importance of having a good driver and not simply buy based on the lumen output that last a few seconds.

SKV89
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MS03 also doesn’t have a high current USB-C charge built-in

Th558
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140 Lumens seems low for the FT03S. Doesn’t it have multiple 7135s? The FW21 Pro can run at 6/7 stable. 7/7 (over 1000lm) is also regulated but the output drops to about 80% after a while in my 23°C room set at 65°C. Would love to see a 4 LED version with a high efficiency driver.

Robin Dobbie
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contactcr wrote:
That is with CW SST-20 or Osram and may be slightly overrated too.

I thought it was with the NW cree, according to a review, although it was measuring 49k in the 1lumen review. FF site says 100k with the osram.

Good eye on the 30-degree optic. Maybe a 15-degree version will be available as an option. Not looking for a pure thrower, but I need more directionality than the D4, I think. I don’t know how many degrees its beam angle is supposed to be.

SKV89 wrote:
Here are some comparisons between large lights with unregulated drivers vs small lights with regulated drivers.

How many people use a single-cell light as a work light for a multi-hour task and start off on turbo or anything super high? Not sure that’s the norm but I could be wrong. I wonder what the graphs would look like if one started their light at a much lower level that the battery could even sustain, thermals aside.

Not sure I care about in-light charging if I want to baby my cells by not pumping them hard and fast to 4.2(or higher) every time. It’s bad enough I sometimes charge from a perfectly usable 3.8 to 4.05. Sad

I guess it’s better to have it and not use it then need it at some point and not have it. Be convenient on a trip or something.

Hikelite
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SKV89 wrote:

Emisar D18 SST20 4000K weighing 343g drops to about 500 lumens
https://1lumen.com/18650-reviews/emisar-d18/

Actually that was a faulty runtime test, the update is right beneath that in their review page.

Hikelite
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Th558 wrote:
Wouldn’t it have made more sense to go with a 6v boost driver? The MS03 is fully regulated and costs less than the XPL-2 E12R. I’m thinking maybe I should get that instead.

Sense is the word that should not be used here, there are 12LEDs running in direct drive, so going 6V to lose the actual running power of the forecast top lumen output?
You won’t be direct driving 12LEDs from a FET in a 6V output from an actual 4.15V cell after charge.

You can claim if you want a 10A buck driver, that does not mean it is even going to be constant current from a single cell, but you can claim it and it would still be a buck driver even if it not regulated at 10A at all.

Th558
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I hope the thermal code is optimised so it doesn’t have the small stepdown at 3 seconds, then the main stepdown at 11 like the FW21 pro.

SKV89
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Robin Dobbie wrote:
How many people use a single-cell light as a work light for a multi-hour task and start off on turbo or anything super high? Not sure that’s the norm but I could be wrong. I wonder what the graphs would look like if one started their light at a much lower level that the battery could even sustain, thermals aside. .

That’s not the norm but you can easily test it out yourself and see. You can’t expect these reviewers to test every single usage possibility out there. You can download the ceiling bounce app if you don’t have any other equipment for testing output and verify it.

A couple years ago I used the MT09R and MT03 as work lights in very large interior spaces and was sorely disappointed how they quickly drop to unusable levels. And no I don’t start it on turbo.

The_Flashaholic
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I’m a flood guy who likes 5700K and pretty RBG lights, this light has been sent to me by the Flashlight gods.

My 4K Lumen Whore Reviews (MS18, X70, MS12, DX80, X80-GT, X45vn etc) - http://www.youtube.com/c/FLASHAHOLIC_TV

Robin Dobbie
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You have it, or they’re sending to you?!

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I meant its conception

My 4K Lumen Whore Reviews (MS18, X70, MS12, DX80, X80-GT, X45vn etc) - http://www.youtube.com/c/FLASHAHOLIC_TV

Robin Dobbie
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Well I hope they do send you a sample. You’re one of a very small handful of reviewers who provide useful information.

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