Best EDC between Fenix PD36R or Sofirn SC31 Pro 5000K

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phantom23
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Yes, you release, and the story repeats – press the switch, hold it, wait for it to start switching modes (this time in other direction), stay fully focused to release the switch in the exact fraction of a second. Nothing like that is not necessary when onle click = one mode change.
With well spaced modes there’s no doubt what mode you’re in at the moment.

longuylander
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You keep stressing the one click thing, but as I stated, it’s possible to accidentally trigger two clicks instead of one. What you fail to keep addressing is that, if you miss the mode you want, you have to cycle through all other modes to get back to where you want (the exact problem you’re trying to assign to Anduril). With the ability to go up and down the scale, choosing the mode you want becomes significantly faster, easier, and less likely to blind you. And you’re also ignoring that it isn’t a single click to change modes, as you still either have to hold the switch to turn the light on, or use a totally different switch to turn the light on. Unless you ALWAYS use the light in the last mode you wanted, you’re still fiddling with multiple steps of different actions to reach a desired level, most likely cycling through modes far brighter than you desire. If the light has the hold to on/off feature, the accidental double press from off will put the light in lockout mode.

Even Fenix including the ability to directly access the light’s lowest mode would be a huge improvement over their current setup. I have a Nitecore Tup that has two switches side-by-side, and has memory mode, and always progresses to the next highest mode. But the addition of instant access to moonlight and instant access to turbo (which is not in the regular cycle) is vastly superior to Fenix’s UI.

I will say it again, simpler does not equate to better. If you feel holding a button down requires all of your focus and can only handle single clicks (unless you need to hold for on/off), and if you feel like having direct access to the lowest or highest mode is not useful, and if you don’t mind always having to pass through higher settings to reach the lower ones again, and you cannot handle setting up modes to your preference on a light, and (if you prefer two switches) you don’t mind one button to turn the light on and a second button to change modes located in a position that forces you to change how you’re holding the light, and you don’t mind that the tail button on modern Fenix lights prevent the light from tail standing, then you may think Fenix’s UI is better. Those are a lot of hurdles to get past for the rest of the world who can distinguish small increments in time when holding a button down.

rdhood
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I love Anduril. Yes, you actually have to read and understand the instructions. That takes about 85% of everyone out of the picture. Once you do… it becomes the easiest UI there is. Press and hold for moon, double click to turbo, on/off and ramp to the desired output.

MY 10 YEAR OLD HAS IT DOWN PAT.

Seriously, except for the temp calibration, a simple demonstration and everyone in my household has no problems in basic operation. No blinkers or candle modes without greater understanding, but they EASILY operate the basic flashlight. So every time this discussion comes up I have to wonder if I have a brilliant 10 year old ‘cause there are a whole slew of inept, clueless adults who can’t seem to figure it out.

phantom23
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^^ I’m pretty sure your 10yo played with it while sitting on a couch in warm room. During the cold night when your flashlight is a tool while you’re doing something else ramping through modes (trough predefined stepped modes, we’re not talking about smooth ramping here) is not the best solution because it forces you to take your mind off of what you were doing and concentrate on your flashlight to release the switch in up to 1/3 of a second otherwise it will ramp/switch to the next mode. Anduril itself doesn’t help because it cycles through the modes really fast, faster than other UIs using similar method.

longuylander wrote:
You keep stressing the one click thing, but as I stated, it’s possible to accidentally trigger two clicks instead of one. What you fail to keep addressing is that, if you miss the mode you want, you have to cycle through all other modes to get back to where you want (the exact problem you’re trying to assign to Anduril).
It never happened to me and I’m using my TK22 SE since I don’t even remember when (it came out in 2014 so probaly around that). That’s why there’s nothing to address, it’s impossible to go to the wrong mode (all Fenixes I owned worked flawlessly) unlike in Anduril where it’s inevitable. Going back means you have to perform the same procedure again and potentially – miss your desired mode again.

Wth Fenix if you are in the desired mode and you want to go back down with brightness I agree that you need to cycle through the modes. Which means 3 quick clicks and thing is – they still take much less time than press+hold+ramp+release,

longuylander wrote:
With the ability to go up and down the scale, choosing the mode you want becomes significantly faster, easier, and less likely to blind you.
Definitely not faster or easier. If you went from lowest mode to secong lowest and you want to go higher to medium – you need to press and hold – it will start ramping back down (since you were going up previously), then release, press and hold again so it will be ramping up again, observe the beam and keep your concentration to release the switch in the exact 1/3 of a second otherwise it will go past the desired mode. It is not faster than a single click.

longuylander wrote:
And you’re also ignoring that it isn’t a single click to change modes, as you still either have to hold the switch to turn the light on, or use a totally different switch to turn the light on. Unless you ALWAYS use the light in the last mode you wanted, you’re still fiddling with multiple steps of different actions to reach a desired level, most likely cycling through modes far brighter than you desire.
I have no problem with a separate switch (both can be right next to each other) , also I usually leave my flashlights in one of the lower modes so no, they don’t blind me.

longuylander wrote:
If you feel holding a button down requires all of your focus and can only handle single clicks (unless you need to hold for on/off), and if you feel like having direct access to the lowest or highest mode is not useful, and if you don’t mind always having to pass through higher settings to reach the lower ones again, and you cannot handle setting up modes to your preference on a light, and (if you prefer two switches) you don’t mind one button to turn the light on and a second button to change modes located in a position that forces you to change how you’re holding the light, and you don’t mind that the tail button on modern Fenix lights prevent the light from tail standing, then you may think Fenix’s UI is better.
You’re too fixated on Fenix, I just used them as an example of one thing – switching modes by a single click which I personally find much easier than press+hold+ramp+release (because the latter does require much more concentration – obviously as it’s four steps instead of one). Nothing else. There are many more excellent executions like Nitecore and their dual switch: single click changes a single mode but there are shortcuts to lowest and highest mode and everything is operated with a single switch and it’s brilliant.

rdhood wrote:
Yes, you actually have to read and understand the instructions. That takes about 85% of everyone out of the picture.
Thank you, you just confirmed it’s overcomplicated.
Lightbringer
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Y’all know that there are lights with simple UIs…

Eg, Xeno E03 that’s MLH (not a fan, but some people like that), or anything that just has basic LMH with not much else.

I pointed out a buncha times that my first “real” EDC light was a 1-mode simple on/off ’502. Did like 95% of what I needed it for.

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longuylander
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phantom23 wrote:
it forces you to take your mind off of what you were doing and concentrate on your flashlight to release the switch in up to 1/3 of a second otherwise it will ramp/switch to the next mode.

If it takes all your concentration to hold a button for a short while until it switches one mode instead of two, and if you think it’s easier to cycle through all other higher modes instead of being able to back up one mode, there’s something wrong with you.

phantom23 wrote:
It never happened to me and I’m using my TK22 SE since I don’t even remember when (it came out in 2014 so probaly around that). That’s why there’s nothing to address, it’s impossible to go to the wrong mode (all Fenixes I owned worked flawlessly) unlike in Anduril where it’s inevitable.

It is inevitable with any light that a mistake is made when trying to change modes. Stating it has never happened to you is clearly understating the possibility of human error. What we’re focusing on here is the simplicity of fixing that error. We clearly disagree on how quickly one UI works compared to another, but there’s no way to justify having to change multiple (brighter) modes is a better solution than going back down one mode.

phantom23 wrote:
Wth Fenix if you are in the desired mode and you want to go back down with brightness I agree that you need to cycle through the modes. Which means 3 quick clicks and thing is – they still take much less time than press+hold+ramp+release

Except that it doesn’t take less time, and it causes you to likely blind yourself by having to pass through all the higher modes.

phantom23 wrote:
If you went from lowest mode to second lowest and you want to go higher to medium – you need to press and hold – it will start ramping back down (since you were going up previously), then release, press and hold again so it will be ramping up again, observe the beam and keep your concentration to release the switch in the exact 1/3 of a second otherwise it will go past the desired mode. It is not faster than a single click.

Again, if you can’t hold the button for the appropriate amount of time to get to the mode you want then there is something wrong with you. We’re not talking about milliseconds here. I have always known I have slow reaction times when it comes to pressing buttons (from playing video games), and I have never once had a problem with any light that uses hold to change modes (even non Anduril lights, some of which have faster and slower changing times).

phantom23 wrote:
I have no problem with a separate switch (both can be right next to each other) , also I usually leave my flashlights in one of the lower modes so no, they don’t blind me.

Dual switches next to each other is certainly better than the tail and side switch combo (in my opinon). I stated before the Nitecore Tup having dual switches isn’t a problem at all, though it’s big advantage is its shortcut to low and its turbo being removed from the main cycle. But what makes having to cycle through all the modes to leave your light on low before you turn it off easier than being able to hold the button for a short while when turning it on in its lowest mode? Do you know for sure that the next time you turn it on you will want low? If the next time you need it you still want a middle setting, you have to now cycle through to get back to it.

phantom23 wrote:
Thank you, you just confirmed it’s overcomplicated.

I hope you never get behind the wheel of a car if you find reading instructions for a flashlight too complicated. You don’t use the pedals and steering wheel as binary operators, do you? I mean, imagine all that concentration it must take to adjust pressure on the pedals, where millimeters make a difference in their operations. You’d never have time to look at the road!

I learned Anduril in about a half hour of playing with my FW3A with the instruction open in front of me. I enjoyed that time, as we all love to play with our new lights when we get them.

As a final point (as the original post was about the difference between two specific lights, one of which has Anduril), by choosing to ignore the main feature of Anduril – its ramping – you’re comparing a portion of one light’s UI which you think is too confusing to another light’s only option. We have focused on Fenix because they were one of the lights over which the original question was about. But the same UI on other lights (with single e-switches or clicky switches) all have the same flaws. Sofirn’s own SP10S is a great light that has two flaws. First: no shortcut to moonlight, and second: hold for off. Their own SP33 fixes both of those by allowing hold from off to access moonlight and hold to change modes and single click for off. Both of these also have turbo as a double click from any mode so as not to have it in the general cycle. Both of these UIs are an improvement over Fenix’s, with the SP33 being significantly better.

Clearly you have dug your heels in and refuse to admit that simplicity is not always the best option. I will not waste any more of my time pointing out all the flaws in your argument. All that matters is that you’re happy with your lights and I am happy with mine. When I grab my light, I will be happy to know I have all the options to turn my light on in whatever mode I need without having to remember how I used it last, and without having to bend all my will to focus, regardless of what light I am using.

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longuylander wrote:
phantom23 wrote:
it forces you to take your mind off of what you were doing and concentrate on your flashlight to release the switch in up to 1/3 of a second otherwise it will ramp/switch to the next mode.

I hope you never get behind the wheel of a car if you find reading instructions for a flashlight too complicated. You don’t use the pedals and steering wheel as binary operators, do you? I mean, imagine all that concentration it must take to adjust pressure on the pedals, where millimeters make a difference in their operations. You’d never have time to look at the road!

I need 3505 rpm and this lousy car keeps going 3500 then to 3550, doesn’t do what i want SMASH
I don’t get it either, just tap out with an okie dokie

phantom23
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longuylander wrote:

If it takes all your concentration to hold a button for a short while until it switches one mode instead of two, and if you think it’s easier to cycle through all other higher modes instead of being able to back up one mode, there’s something wrong with you.

You keep ignoring that it’s not really about holding the button itself but waiting in full concentration to release the button within a fraction of a second (literally, it’s less than half a second, more like 250-300ms). I did have a flashlight with such UI that was ramping much slower than Anduril and there was always some anxiety to avoid releasing the switch too late or too early.
longuylander wrote:
It is inevitable with any light that a mistake is made when trying to change modes. Stating it has never happened to you is clearly understating the possibility of human error. What we’re focusing on here is the simplicity of fixing that error. We clearly disagree on how quickly one UI works compared to another, but there’s no way to justify having to change multiple (brighter) modes is a better solution than going back down one mode.

You made it sound like it was about the switch malfunction. And no, it never happened to me to click more or less times than I wanted. It’s a muscle memory you train in advance and if you miss either way – there’s nomething wrong with you. When you miss to do something in less than 0,3 – it can happen and happens quite a lot.

About fixing an error – if you release the switch too early with Anduril fixing that mistake will take a lot of time as it will ramp the other direction first.

longuylander wrote:
Except that it doesn’t take less time, and it causes you to likely blind yourself by having to pass through all the higher modes.

It takes much less time as it’s three short clicks with no waiting.
longuylander wrote:
But what makes having to cycle through all the modes to leave your light on low before you turn it off easier than being able to hold the button for a short while when turning it on in its lowest mode? Do you know for sure that the next time you turn it on you will want low? If the next time you need it you still want a middle setting, you have to now cycle through to get back to it.

I usually use similar modes and I never left my flashlight on max mode so I won’t be blinded. Also – double switch or two-stage click allow for shortcuts.
longuylander wrote:
I hope you never get behind the wheel of a car if you find reading instructions for a flashlight too complicated. You don’t use the pedals and steering wheel as binary operators, do you? I mean, imagine all that concentration it must take to adjust pressure on the pedals, where millimeters make a difference in their operations. You’d never have time to look at the road!

Bad comparison. Simple UI is when you need to press a single physical button to turn something on in the car (like heated seat). Anduril (and other press+hold+wait+release UIs) is when you have a touch screen and to do the same thing you need to go to the menu, choose the correct category (climate), then the right tab (seats) and then press the digital button that displays for 0,3s. All that while driving. If you’re ok with it – I don’t want to meet you on my road.
longuylander wrote:
As a final point (as the original post was about the difference between two specific lights, one of which has Anduril), by choosing to ignore the main feature of Anduril – its ramping – you’re comparing a portion of one light’s UI which you think is too confusing to another light’s only option.

I’m ignoring the ramping on purpose because you never know what’s the actual brightness and therefore you cannot estimate runtime on that particular brightness setting.
longuylander wrote:
We have focused on Fenix because they were one of the lights over which the original question was about. But the same UI on other lights (with single e-switches or clicky switches) all have the same flaws. Sofirn’s own SP10S is a great light that has two flaws. First: no shortcut to moonlight, and second: hold for off. Their own SP33 fixes both of those by allowing hold from off to access moonlight and hold to change modes and single click for off. Both of these also have turbo as a double click from any mode so as not to have it in the general cycle. Both of these UIs are an improvement over Fenix’s, with the SP33 being significantly better.

There is no perfect UI and Anduril is far from perfect either. I think there are even better UI’s than both Fenix’s or Anduril (mostly from Nitecore – they had some great ideas). I’m ok with “hold for off” as long as you don’t change modes through “press+hold+wait+release”.
DtroitPunk72
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TimMc wrote:
+1 for SC31 Pro Silly

I ordered one but they say the 5000K is OOS! I hate when they let you order something that they don’t actually have.

Should I wait or do you think the 6500K is OK too?

4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

Lightbringer
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Got the 6500K, not bad at all, even though I generally hate CW.

1hr left as of this writing for a lightning deal on amazon, 27bux for the KIT (ie, with cell, etc.).

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DtroitPunk72
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Lightbringer wrote:
Got the 6500K, not bad at all, even though I generally hate CW.

1hr left as of this writing for a lightning deal on amazon, 27bux for the KIT (ie, with cell, etc.).

Thanks for the feedback.

I don’t think I am particularly sensitive about lights, but do prefer a cleaner NW generally.

Waiting to hear how long the delay would be for the 5K now.

4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

how crazy is this
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I will also chime in that the 6500K is not bad at all and I too generally hate CW. Would like to see the 5000k version and would really like it if they made a 4000k version. However, bottom line for me is that the 6500k version is, temperature wise, “neutral” for me. By that I mine that I don’t like or dislike the color temperature. I do however like the light.

DtroitPunk72
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how crazy is this wrote:
I will also chime in that the 6500K is not bad at all and I too generally hate CW. Would like to see the 5000k version and would really like it if they made a 4000k version. However, bottom line for me is that the 6500k version is, temperature wise, “neutral” for me. By that I mine that I don’t like or dislike the color temperature. I do however like the light.

Thanks!

4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

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