[Design concept] Wurkkos tint ramping mini lantern + flashlight

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Lux-Perpetua
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[Design concept] Wurkkos tint ramping mini lantern + flashlight

Hello everyone,

I would like to introduce my latest draft design for a new mini lantern that combines following attributes:

  • small-sized body for high(er) versatility, 26650 tube diameter with 21700 support for optimum stability
  • enhanced tint spectrum, reaching from 660nm deep red to neutralwhite (5.000K) using HighCRI components
  • constant current regulation, preferably with buck conversion to drive low Vf emitters efficiently
  • detachable diffuser head with bayonet breechlock for dual-use scenarios (classic flashlight use or as a mini lantern)
  • (medium-frosted) TIR optic for better light distribution into the head reflector
  • high efficiency inner topside reflector to distribute the light evenly into the diffuser material
  • plastic molded diffuser cap with integrated biconcave lens to spread the light evenly into the diffuser
  • magnetic tailcap for more advanced applications (e.g. horizontal alignment) if possible at this weight (may not be reasonable in proximity to compasses)
  • simple but sophisticated user interface

I am aware there is a competing project ongoing with the LT1M mini lantern. However, this project here will be pursued by Wurkkos and not by Sofirn. It is not meant to be using Andúril and it will use a different set of LEDs with more focus on a broad tint spectrum for incandescant/warm lighting than overall brightness. Wurkkos has given their OK to make this idea come true. I would like to collect all your ideas, suggestions, criticism and whatever you want to say to make this mini lantern become what flashoholics like us want it to be. Wink

So, here's the latest design. I will update it accordingly should any major changes occur during development. The original design approach and the initial draft UI can be found in post #2 below.

 

 

 

Edited by: Lux-Perpetua on 11/12/2020 - 02:16
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For reference while continuing further development, this is the original draft design. I will put the lastest design and updates into the OP.

The original draft user interface

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TimMc
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Is it possible to have a larger diffuser that somehow covers most of the surface area of the battery tube so that it’s more like a lantern than a flashlight with a diffuser?

MoreLumens
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Would it be possible to make that protection cap wider and/or with spring so you could screw that onto the light to help it to tailstand without completely level surface? Or atleast include some wider silicone thingy for tail?
Something like this:
https://www.nealsgadgets.com/products/lumintop-fw21-pro-diffuser?_pos=1&...

Would help a lot in outdoor use.

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TimMc wrote:
Is it possible to have a larger diffuser that somehow covers most of the surface area of the battery tube so that it's more like a lantern than a flashlight with a diffuser?

MoreLumens wrote:
Would it be possible to make that protection cap wider and/or with spring so you could screw that onto the light to help it to tailstand without completely level surface? Or atleast include some wider silicone thingy for tail? Something like this: https://www.nealsgadgets.com/products/lumintop-fw21-pro-diffuser?_pos=1&... Would help a lot in outdoor use.

Thanks for these suggestions. Yes, that sounds and looks really good, especially with regard to the additional weight we need to face with a diffuser head. I will definitely take it into consideration with Wurkkos and their engineering.

Anyone have used this diffuser already? Will it drop easily if the lantern is "in motion"?

Another important point is to have an evenly distributed brightness in all areas of the diffuser, i.e. when using only one of the four LEDs (like deep red 660nm) it should result in the same brightness regardless from what side you look at the diffuser.

adam7027
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Hello Lux-Perpetua,

This is a very interesting design proposal!

Just I wanted to mention, that XP-E2 PC Amber is better than XP-E2 Amber regarding spectrum, and it provides a better mixing possibility towards both warm white and deep red. (+1: PC Amber is more efficient than monochrome Amber, and in terms of electrical characteristics, it is closer to similar warm white LEDs.)

What do you think?

niajef
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im not knowledgeable enough to understand all the technical stuff, but visually, this just looks like t he BLF LT1 mini, no? can someone explain the technical difference in layman’s term

0oklight
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I really like the body design with no knurling, as Wurkkos has done with previous lights.

Suggestions:

A magnet would not be useful for backpacking (as opposed to car camping) due to weight increase and few backpacking gear materials being ferrous, so nothing to stick it to.
(Show me a steel tent pole!) Magnet could be removable.

An additional removable lightweight plastic/aluminium base would be useful.

Duv balancing is essential.

Regarding even light distribution, would an offset apex in top reflector which was rotatable be a solution?

Edit: or perhaps double the number of LEDs, with 2 of each opposing eachother, but would involve big change in design, unless you dispense of the TIR optic and make it into a mule, then LEDs be closer.

rdhood
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I like it. I purposely have not purchased a few LT1’s or committed to more than one mini because I think that this is an evolving space. And, having two Wurkkos lights, I think that they can pull this off. The hardest part is going to make the light look even (360 degrees) and balanced no matter the color tint. At this point, that is more art than science!

thefreeman
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Amber and even PC amber will look orange, it will look terrible

that’s assuming a neutral 2700K, in reality it will porbably be above the BBL too.

Tint ramping offers the opportunity of bellow the BBL tints for a good portion of the tint ramp, but not if the LEDs are significantly above the BBL. Here everything from ~2300K to ~ 1000K will be above the BBL.

Isn’t there a 2200K XP-E2 ? that would be much better.

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As a camper and avid lantern user (love my sofirn LT1s) I would love to see Wurkkos make a real lantern. This small lantern is worse in every way than just having a flashlight and a diffuser. A single battery just won’t cut it for lantern use and there are other issues with this product that are also in Sofirn’s product. Nobody in my mind has yet made a perfect lantern although all the ingredients are there. Here is what I would like to see in a lantern:

1) Tint ramping is cool in theory but not appropriate for lanterns. Let people pick their tint preference and run with it. The simpler the design the better.
2) Andruil is a bad choice for a lantern. Lanterns are used in campsites by mixed groups of people and in particular in the dark. They should have a SIMPLE interface that I don’t need to explain to everybody at the campsite before use.
3) Battery, battery, battery. Long life is king when you’re camping. A single battery won’t cut it. I’d like 4× 21700. Efficient components should be emphasized.
4) Battery bank functionality in a pinch would be amazing.

Serlite
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I’m interested in seeing how this project unfolds, though I’m not sure how useful an amber emitter would actually be on a light. I can’t think of many situations where I’d want a scene to look more orange…

Muto
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Suggest making a lot and put me down for 3 of them Smile

“History doesn’t repeat itself, but it sometimes rhymes,” Mark Twain

After the Apocalypse there will be only 2 things left alive, Cockroaches and Keith Richards

“You’ll develop like a herd mentality,”
“It’s gonna be herd-developed and that’s gonna happen.”

Yep it already happened

MoreLumens
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Maybe that amber + candle mode would look good, but still kinda gimmicky. I would only use ramping, batt check, deep red and warm white so dont really care about anything else. Would it be bad if that amber led would be like 2000k if there is any led that does that and goes with LH351D’s?

netprince
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I’d buy one. Maybe two.

Amber/Red would be great when the bugs are out bad.

Fescron
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Huh I’d love a light that could ramp from red to 5000k! Also please integrate a battery-check option? LED in the switch and/or triple click from off? Removable magnet would also be nice. And type c – c charging with powerbank functionality would certainly be appealing to me and others I think Smile

zoysiamo
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How about a mule with different CCTs of Nichia E21As and an included diffuser to act as a lantern? Mixing different E21As seem to lead to really lovely tints below the BBL.

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New approach Wink

flashburn wrote:
Some points: (...) Plastic thread on the diffuser intended to be removed frequently is total failure, because plastic on metal will consume the thread within a few cycles. No-go item! * A bayonet catch with forced positioning would be more durable and solve ray tracking issues. Four different positions of LED need special designs in the top reflector and the diffuser to spread the light evenly. So a variably positionable srew-in would be suboptimal, go for bayonet breechlock. * An aluminoum lid with integrated reflectors plus an aluminium socket would be optimum and allow a sturdy construction to hold the head together.

Agreed. I have revised my design accordingly to something like that. A concave top reflector might be a good way but I am not sure if the reflected light will still be diffused as desired. So, I thought about placing a biconcave plastic lens into the inner part to achieve a more even distribution of the light into the diffuser. Please excuse my miserable drawing skills. Facepalm However, I hope it makes sense. If not, please comment. Some more guidance would be awesome. Smile

flashburn wrote:
* LED need to be at different sides of the BBL to have the Duv within the corners of the resulting field. Otherwise there will be even lower CRI in the mixed light.

I am not sure how that can be achieved. AFAIK, most flashlight manufacturers cannot preselect LED reels by their Duv or chromaticity bins. It would require handpicking and individual testing with a colorimeter to get that done. I don't think that's gonna happen. Maybe someone like Hank could do these extra efforts with a big surcharge in the sales price.

flashburn wrote:
USB-C charging?

Yes, USB-C charging with reverse charging feature ("powerbank").

flashburn wrote:
Finding light (on the switch)?

You mean an illuminated switch button? Yes, definitely. I was thinking about something like in the Andúril UI (7x click to cycle between off > low > high > heartbeat) using a red illumination. The green is way too bright in my opinion.

flashburn wrote:
Foot magnet would need to be strong to hold this weight. Really bad for outdoor use if it kills or disturbs the compass, no-go item! Angry * A (quite costly) solution would be a multi-pole local-field magnet with director plate. It is strong but the B-lines stay just a few millimeters afar from the surface. Would still kill a compass if both come too close. Still no-go. * Too narrow foot, will tip easily, so make a wider battery cap.

Agreed. A plastic bottom disc/plate to support the lantern's stability would be a nice alternative, as illustrated here.

https://www.nealsgadgets.com/products/lumintop-fw21-pro-diffuser?_pos=1&...

flashburn wrote:
Add powerbank feature, so in a pinch one could charge GPS / radio / whatever on the battery.

Done.

flashburn wrote:
No Andúril, no go... Silly Anyway, good luck with this project. The BLF LT1M-Mini will be hard to beat.

I take up this challenge. Wink As much as I like Andúril (and the candle mode is an important part of it), I try to find a simplier, more essential UI together with Wurkkos to make it also approachable to the standard customer, not only to flashoholics. With their IF25 tint mixing flashlight Sofirn has proven that they can implement a simple but useful UI. It does not necessarily mean that Andúril is ruled out for this project, though.

 

adam7027 wrote:
Hello Lux-Perpetua, This is a very interesting design proposal! Just I wanted to mention, that XP-E2 PC Amber is better than XP-E2 Amber regarding spectrum, and it provides a better mixing possibility towards both warm white and deep red. (+1: PC Amber is more efficient than monochrome Amber, and in terms of electrical characteristics, it is closer to similar warm white LEDs.) What do you think?

Since Cree LEDs are more and more hard to get and due to some mixed feelings about amber light (I still need to find out why Big Smile ) I have suggested another LED, Samsung's LH351B 2.200K 80CRI. Maybe this could be an interesting alternative to blend between 2.700K and deep red?

 

niajef wrote:
im not knowledgeable enough to understand all the technical stuff, but visually, this just looks like t he BLF LT1 mini, no? can someone explain the technical difference in layman's term

In some ways, yes it is quite similar. But if I recall correctly DBSAR uses Sofirn's IF25 for LT1M's basis, using a pair of SST20 2.700K and SST20 6.500K? I'm not sure what the latest update is, though. Moreover, this model here is based upon a mixture of WK30 and WK40 (prototype), it uses a different UI, a different diffuser design and a different selection of LEDs for a broader bandwith of tints (at the cost of maximum brightness). I do not mean to interfere with DBSAR's or Sofirn's plans. Smile

 

0oklight wrote:
I really like the body design with no knurling, as Wurkkos has done with previous lights. Suggestions: A magnet would not be useful for backpacking (as opposed to car camping) due to weight increase and few backpacking gear materials being ferrous, so nothing to stick it to. (Show me a steel tent pole!) Magnet could be removable. An additional removable lightweight plastic/aluminium base would be useful. Duv balancing is essential. Regarding even light distribution, would an offset apex in top reflector which was rotatable be a solution? Edit: or perhaps double the number of LEDs, with 2 of each opposing eachother, but would involve big change in design, unless you dispense of the TIR optic and make it into a mule, then LEDs be closer.

I agree with the removable lightweight aluminum/plastic base. Maybe I get to revise the design a bit into that direction. A larger lens with more LEDs will be a hard task because there seem to be only a few optics available to the factory. I am pushing Sofirn and Wurkkos to seek out for optics from Carclo and LEDiL but I do not know how easy it will be for them to get these.

zoysiamo wrote:
How about a mule with different CCTs of Nichia E21As and an included diffuser to act as a lantern? Mixing different E21As seem to lead to really lovely tints below the BBL.

Not an option unfortunately. Sad Sofirn seems to has given up sourcing LEDs from Nichia. Their suppliers seem to be unable to get these from Japan.

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Lux-Perpetua wrote:
Since Cree LEDs are more and more hard to get and due to some mixed feelings about amber light (I still need to find out why Big Smile ) I have suggested another LED, Samsung’s LH351B 2.200K 80CRI. Maybe this could be an interesting alternative to blend between 2.700K and deep red?

Have a look at this presentation about the preference for white light

Especialy, from one of the studies

What is precieved as not acceptable :

According to this, going directly from 2700K to red would even be better than doing a stop at 2200K.

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Hmm....would it make sense to use...

1x 5.000K 90CRI

1x 4.000K 90CRI

1x 2.700K 90CRI

1x deep red 660nm

It would for sure gain more overall brightness in white light but also more accentuation on the neutral side of white light, not on incandescent warm light.

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Lux-Perpetua wrote:
adam7027 wrote:
Hello Lux-Perpetua, This is a very interesting design proposal! Just I wanted to mention, that XP-E2 PC Amber is better than XP-E2 Amber regarding spectrum, and it provides a better mixing possibility towards both warm white and deep red. (+1: PC Amber is more efficient than monochrome Amber, and in terms of electrical characteristics, it is closer to similar warm white LEDs.) What do you think?

Since Cree LEDs are more and more hard to get and due to some mixed feelings about amber light (I still need to find out why Big Smile ) I have suggested another LED, Samsung's LH351B 2.200K 80CRI. Maybe this could be an interesting alternative to blend between 2.700K and deep red?

I'd suggest then LH351D 3500K 90CRI instead, which would make better mixing. 2700K (to be replaced) and 2200K is too close to each other in my opinion.

so, this could be awesome:

1x 5.000K 90CRI

1x 3.500K 90CRI

1x 2.200K 80CRI

1x deep red 660nm

thefreeman
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Lux-Perpetua wrote:

Hmm….would it make sense to use…


1× 5.000K 90CRI


1× 4.000K 90CRI


1× 2.700K 90CRI


1x deep red 660nm


It would for sure gain more overall brightness in white light but also more accentuation on the neutral side of white light, not on incandescent warm light.

A quick example :

Using measured data from 5000K wurkkos FC11 (a pretty bad tint), 4000K and 2700K from Sofirn and 5700K from convoy (a relatively good tint : Q1 bin), all with beaded TIR lens at 1A, which doesn’t give result too different from the IF25 optics.

4000K isn’t useful, I’d say 5700K to 2700K is best, 6000K could even be used. My CIE diagram doesn’t show lower CCTs sorry, but it goes to a maximum of -0.0110 duv around 1300K, which personally I would find perfectly good at these very warm temp.

So three colours might be good enough, one of them would be doubled, which I dont think would be an issue, the driver would be greatly simplified with 3 channels instead of 4.

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I like the updates, but about that lantern part. Even though it looks better now, but it aint really slim or mini anymore and just the lantern part takes a lot of room from your backpack, pocket, etc. I liked first design a bit more, but now it starts to seem as 4×18650 size head. Not sure if its even possible to keep it slimmer if it connects to outside of the bezel/lamp. Maybe it will be slimmer when ready and now its just a sketch?

Still I like its single cell which is huge benefit no matter what.

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Magnetic tail cap would be helpful for tipping issues if we didn’t want to use the supplied plastic base.

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Simple UI is good idea, however I would like to see smooth tint ramping and light intensity ramping, candle mode with timer shut off, option to turn switch light on/dim/off, saves memory from last setting, and lock-out mode.

klrman
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I'm in for 3 of them, I really like the 26650 support.

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Interested!

hamham
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Highly highly interested!