Does anyone else not like electronic switches????

Don’t get me wrong, I understand their benefits. But I have serious beef with some of the implementations.

I’ve bought a few lights recently (FT03, MF01 Mini, KR1) they all have electronic switch.

So what’s the problem I hear you ask……

1. Well they go flat if you leave them. Yes I know this can take time. But like many on here, I happen to have at least a couple of lights :wink: which means sometimes some of them will sit on the shelf for a period of time and not be used. Or I might put one in a car for a bit.

But anything with an electronic switch will frickin drain itself. Over the past year I’ve managed to ruin a handful of Li-ion batteries this way. Where I’ve used a light and put it back on the shelf and forgot to either take the battery out or unsrew the cap (not all of them support a mechanical lockout).

2. And I think this is an even bigger issue. Electronic switches seem much more prone to being activated accidentally. I know this ultimately comes down to the individual implementation and design. For instance my Zebralight SC600w IV might still run the battery down if I forget to unscrew the cap. But at least it doesn’t activate in my pocket.

But two really awesome lights I’d like to use more are horrendous at this:

  • Astrolux MF01 Mini
  • Nocitgon KR1

These two lights are amazing lights. I’d love to use both of them more. The KR1 is ideal EDC size for me and could quite easily have become my favourite light of all time. BUT…………………………

Both of them will turn on in your pocket!!! FFS arrchhrhGGGG ggg!!! :cry: :person_facepalming:

Which sadly renders them both completely useless as lights to carry and use. :frowning:

I know there is an electronic lock out —- but it’s 4 clicks, then another 4 clicks to unlock it. Plus the light will flash when you do this. Basically I’m not going to piss about clicking it this number of times for a light I want to carry and use daily. It is too much of a chore. I’d rather just take a different light that simply works for the intended purpose.

The physical lockout, while effective suffers the same issue as the electronic lockup. Unnecessary faffing when trying to do something simple.

Surely I’m not the only one with such feelings about this?

Out of around 100 lights that I own. I have only 3 that have good implementations of electronic switches:

  • Klarus NT20
  • Crelant V9CS
  • Olight M3XS-UT Javelot

In each case above all of the lights have an electronic switch for changing modes. But they all have a forward mechanical clicky for turning the light on. This seems to be the ultimate solution IMO. No battery drain when off, none of them accidentally activate (in fact all can tail stand too). You get momentary without needing to pre-select a special mode. But you get all the advantages of an electronic switch. Hell, the V9CS even has a ramping mode not hugely different to the Anduril UI, despite being a torch I bought back in 2012!

Here is a review of the KR1, I think you can tell how much I truly love this little light. And yet how disappointed I am that it turns on in my pocket:

I STRONGLY prefer shortcut-based UIs for EDC lights and e-switch is really the only way to achieve that.

That said some implementations really do suck, and I don’t care for them at all.

Glue a protective ring around the switch. I use stainless or brass washers. An added benefit is you can locate the switch by feel alone.

You`de probably like the Thrunite Archer 2A V3 then, it`s like those other 3 you mentioned.
Personally I prefer a side switch to tail clicky, probably because I`m a bit old school but also from a practical standpoint it`s easier to use one handed, a tail clicky is usually a 2 handed thing because once it`s on I have to turn it around to hold it like a normal light, holding it like a dagger doesn`t feel right to me at all.
Plus I`m used to locking out all my lights by twisting the tail cap anyway, it`s not something I even think about anymore. it`s quite funny because I have a lot of lights from the 60`s and 70`s (tail cap lockout doesn`t work with them) and I still try and twist the end before I power up! LOL
I also use a Vape and am used to locking out that to put it in my purse (that uses 6 clicks!).

Tactile switches they come in various operating forces (for example 1.57N, 2.55N, 3.55N, all with the same travel), they can be ultra easy to press to harder to press, same model, so all of the same sudden the switch reach differently not because of design but because of actual part number.
For example I have an old Zebralight AA, the switch requires such high operating force that is no joy to use, and gets no use.
Maybe you can request customization for a higher operating force switch to mitigate the pocket activation you have experienced.

I do like electronic switches for the reason BurningPlayd0h mentioned. But Crescendo is very close if not on par when operated through a reverse clicky. Direct low/moon? Yes, if without mode memory. Direct turbo? Double click on ramping. Arbitrary up- and downramping? Yes! :slight_smile:

Also love the tail e-switch of the KR1. I do not carry it in a way I could accidentally activate it, so I enjoy Andúril and a real nice button. I know many people hate it, but to me it’s perfect. I touch it on the edge, never at the center, and it always registers a button press and feels soft and professional.

Of course, it is not nice to have to lockout small EDC lights (mine is an Olight S1R). Costs time. Boring. But when in use, I like side switches more. Maybe a reverse clicky located where the e-switch usually is placed would be a good thing (of course, with Crescendo running)? But then, an electronic switch can be made so stiff that it compansates the missing travel as protection against accidental activation. Klarus Mi1C variants are a good example.

I much prefer electronic switches to mechanical clickies.

Electronic switches have a number of advantages compared to mechanical switches:

  • They allow for a much more intuitive UI with easy shortcuts to moonlight, max and on/off. A well designed e-switch UI (like that found in Olight and Acebeam, or Anduril) easily beats the best clicky UI by a huge amount.
  • They also tend to be quieter than mechanical switches due to less switch travel and fewer moving parts.
  • They tend to be more durable for the same reason. Less moving stuff to wear out.
  • Size - Main current does not flow through an e-switch allowing for a smaller and possibly higher-power light

The disadvantages of e-switches are mainly in the implementation:

  • Parasitic Drain - yes, all e-switch lights do have parasitic drain. However, a well implemented driver will have drain that’s less than the self-discharge of the battery. Some of my old Zebralights like my SC62d still work just fine without recharging even though I left a battery inside for 2+ years without using tailcap lockout. On the other hand, if the driver is designed poorly the parasitic drain might be enough to drain the battery in a week.
  • Accidental activation - a well designed e-switch light can be extremely resistant to accidental activation. Things that affect this include (1) whether the switch protrudes, is flush, or is recessed; (2) the size of the switch, and (3) how much pressure is required to activate it.
  • Examples of well-designed e-switches:
    • SC52 and later series Zebralights with their deeply recessed switch.
    • Thrunite T1 / Wowtac A6 switch is tiny and flush.
  • Other lights can be modded to be highly resistant to accidental activation.
    • The o-ring mod for the FW3A greatly increases the amount of pressure required to activate the switch. With that mod a couple of my FW3 series switches now require almost 6 pounds of pressure to activate. I could stand a BLF-GT with batteries on the switch and it would not be enough weight to activate it!
    • Adding a filed down finishing washer around the switch on my D4V2 helps greatly. The washer keeps objects in the pocket stood off from the button greatly reducing the chances of accidental activation.

* However, some lights with e-switches have horrible design and are super vulnerable to accidental activation.

- Examples include the old Zebralight SC51 and the Emisar D4 with flush switch ring. Both have large protruding soft-touch buttons. Ugh!

  • The very worst example I’ve seen is the Nitecore Concept 1. That light has a microswitch activated by a hinged lever. There’s not much spring tension inside a tiny microswitch. But it takes the cake to then have a lever on top of it which reduces the pressure needed to activate it even more. Even worse the entire lever is mounted on the outside of the light and the merest touch is enough to activate it. Tailcap lockout is mandatory with that light. It’s not surprising that when Nitecore updated the design they replaced the switch system with a more conventional one that they advertised as not turning on in the pocket.

Not a fan of E-switches myself, though it’s just personal preference. I personally don’t see the need for many shortcuts, fancy AUX LEDs, and ramping UI’s are overrated imo. That being said, I own plenty of them and parasitic drain is only an issue on a few of them.

I’m just a huge fan of Bistro/+ in general, it provides everything I would want in driver firmware. Mechanical switch lights are also just generally a lot easier to mod.

Chicken Drumstick said:

One reason I like the SP70 so much. Good implementation of mechanical and e-switch.

I’m also a big fan of the two-switch approach!

The e-switch offers all kinds of UI shortcuts, but if need be, the physical switch makes the light dead-simple to operate: just on/off.
Plus, the physical switch is a much nicer alternative to needing a physical/electronic lockout.

Every single eswitch light that I have in my pocket, whether EDCed or just temporarily, I TCLO when it goes in. I don’t get why that’s such a big deal.

The harder to accidentally turn it on, the harder to deliberately turn on, too. Even a raised ring around the switch then means digging your finger into the well to push the switch. Try that with gloves…

People insist on U-shaped cutouts on tailswitches to make them easier to use with gloves on, vs a nice solid ring that allows stable tailstanding and just plain looks/feels nicer.

Try a light that has both tailswitch and sideswitch, with U-shaped cutouts on the tail. Pain in the ass to keep having to rotate the light when going from one switch to the other, or worse, have a corner of the cutout digging into your thumb when it’s awkwardly positioned.

Granted, gloves would not be ideal but most lights get warm enough to keep my hands warm on winter walks.

Having thought about this a bit more.

I think a mechanical tail switch could be seen as an easy to use mechanical lockout device. This means if you prefer only an electronic switch you could leave it ‘on’ all the time and allow turning the light on/off via the electronic switch too. But it would also allow a user to turn the light on/off via the mechanical switch also. Therefore best of both worlds. :smiley:

The V9CS Crelant I own actually does this pretty much. Turn it on with the mechanical switch. Now if you click and hold the electronic switch it will ramp up/down brightness. But click it and it’ll turn it off. Click it again and it’ll turn on. Or double click for strobe.

Pretty sure you could implement Anduril style UI on it with ease. But then allow the tail switch to override and act as a lockout.

^ That is ok with larger lights but edc lights are usually shorter without a tail switch.

I guess it depends on the actual light in question. My AA ones seem to be about the same size (EagleTac D25A and Klarus Mi7).

My Zerbalight SC600w is very short, but has a wider reflector, so more room for the side switch.

Closest comparison is my Astrolux S41 and Manker E14 II. The Manker is slightly shorter, but not to any amount that I think makes any odds. I EDC longer 18650 lights too and the way I pocket carry them. I find the length makes no real difference for this class of light.

For me, choice of tail or side electronic switch, or rear mechanical switch is a matter of personality. That’s why I like all three.

I don’t like single electronic power switched lights. The only exception are a couple of headlamps where that is the only option. My favorite are the rear tail cap forward clicky, the reverse clicky and twisty’s. Because of the direction of flashlight makers in electronic power switched lights it has saved me a lot of money :slight_smile: ………and the hobby has pretty much matured for me at this point.

I think you’re overstating the standby drain problem. If standby drain is high enough to worry about without always-on secondaries then the driver is badly designed. It ought to be a few microamps with the time to fully drain a battery measured in decades.

Accidental activation is also a design issue. I’ve never had my Zebralight turn on by accident. I’ve done it a couple dozen times with my FW3A.

I’ve even had my holstered(!!) ’502 get turned on accidentally. Flush tailswitch, no cutouts, you literally have to push the switch in to turn it on, and did so… twice.

First was the armrest of my chair at work, when I was getting up, that I know for sure. Second time I don’t recall, but knowing about the first led me to check while it was just warming up and not already a holstered curling-iron.

It’s why I prefer the side clicky e-switches these days. After my experiences with the FW series I’m swearing off tail e-switch lights unless it’s very clearly recessed. I got the d4v2 with the raised ring and it’s lovely. My first tail switch FW1A, I swear all it needed was a light breeze and it would activate :stuck_out_tongue:

Fault of design. Sure it looks nice all flush like that but what’s the point if you’re burning holes in your pockets 3/4s of the time?