Li-Ion rechargable AAA batteries?

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river345
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Li-Ion rechargable AAA batteries?

I brought a couple of remote control cars for my kids. They take a lot of AAA’s! Has anyone had any experience with lithium based AAA batteries?

https://www.amazon.com/EBL-USB-Rechargeable-Lithium-Batteries/dp/B0874R4G99

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07QV8GJS1

The second Amazon link has customer reviews doing capacity tests showing 2700mah on a AAA battery. That’s over twice as much mAh as normal AAA rechargeables. Totally worth it if that’s true.

Wanted to get a second opinion from BLF.

Edit: These are Li-Ion AAA batteries, but at 1.5V.

Edited by: river345 on 12/03/2020 - 11:46
zoulas
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I would evaluate how long Alkaline would last, how long Eneloop’s would last, how long Energizer lithium would last. Alkaline batteries are dirt cheap and dont require recharging. Its not only an issue of cost, its also an issue of convenience . It does not seem like 1.5V AA/AAA lithium rechargeable batteries have much of a market. This is why the only brands available are of the Deleepow type which is probably a chinese sweat shop .

river345
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zoulas wrote:
This is why the only brands available are of the Deleepow type which is probably a chinese sweat shop .

…I don’t know, I think a lot of the things we buy are chinese sweat shop made. Just wanted to know if they work well.

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How can they be at 1.5V..?

The chemistry of Li-ion cells nominally ranges from 3.3 to 3.6V.

[edit]
It looks like there is an internal buck regulator in each cell that drops the voltage down to 1.5

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https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07QV8GJS1

The second Amazon link has customer reviews doing capacity tests showing 2700mah on a AAA battery. That’s over twice as much mAh as normal AAA rechargeables. Totally worth it if that’s true.”

We don`t have the tech (yet) to produce a AAA that puts out 2700mah, it`s either a typo or a lie, Sorry!

river345
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Katherine Alicia wrote:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07QV8GJS1

The second Amazon link has customer reviews doing capacity tests showing 2700mah on a AAA battery. That’s over twice as much mAh as normal AAA rechargeables. Totally worth it if that’s true.”

We don`t have the tech (yet) to produce a AAA that puts out 2700mah, it`s either a typo or a lie, Sorry!

I was kinda wondering about that. If they can fit a charging circuit into a 18650, maybe they can put a switching voltage regulator circuit into a AAA li-ion? Amazon is full of lying products, so it’s totally possible it’s a planted review and just false. But I didn’t think a li-ion AAA battery was something that was out of the realm of what we can do technologically. It’s more supply chain and market conditions driving the availability of options right?

flydiver
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That’s a complete fabrication.
A GOOD 14500 (AA) Li-on only has about 1000mAh, and that is totally lithium. These batteries have to have electronics inside to convert to 1.5v, AND charge/discharge protection. Some have an additional USB charge port, which takes up more room. I have a bunch of Tenavolt AA, done a bunch of testing on them and they are around 1600mAh. Don’t be fooled by the wH claims.
So, AAA has to be less, way less, probably like 500mAh.

I do have a buddy that bought and is using Tenavolt AAA, so the size does exist. I have not heard any negative feedback but he’s not a ‘battery guy’.
IMO, unless you get a REALLY good deal they are WAY too expensive for what they are unless you have a strong requirement for 1.5v continuous output.

Along with that test being AA, he is charging them in a Zanflare charger. This is WRONG! They will NOT charge properly in a ‘normal’ multi-chemistry charger. They ‘may’ charge, but not properly. I’ve tried a bunch of normal chargers to find out. The electronic circuit interferes with the charging algorithm.

A special 5v USB charge is required. This is noted in the details if you read them.
[Only charged by Deleepow Lithium battery charger]

Those reviews either don’t know what they are doing, or they are planted reviews.
You are better off with decent NiMh if you don’t want alkaline.

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river345
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flydiver wrote:
That’s a complete fabrication. A GOOD 14500 (AA) Li-on only has about 1000mAh, and that is totally lithium. These batteries have to have electronics inside to convert to 1.5v, AND charge/discharge protection. Some have an additional USB charge port, which takes up more room. I have a bunch of Tenavolt AA, done a bunch of testing on them and they are around 1600mAh. Don’t be fooled by the wH claims. So, AAA has to be less, way less, probably like 500mAh.

Good point. I was thinking a 14500 is 1000mAh at 3.7V, so maybe 2000mA at 1.5V isn’t out of the question. But you’re right that 2700mAh plus extra circuitry isn’t realistic. Thanks for the reality check.

flydiver
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And again, that was for AA, NOT AAA, AND it was not lithium based, it was NiMh.
So, I apologize, for the comment that the reviewer did not know what he was doing with the Zanflare. It just wasn’t clear WHAT was being reviewed. That’s a different problem.

Amazon regularly screws these reviews up. They just throw everything of that brand into the review section. It can be very confusing.

Note – a 2700mAh AA is possible, but quickly ends up being a lousy battery. They simply don’t have long term functionality. I have some, I know. Even the higher capacity Eneloops don’t have the long term reliability of the 2000mAh white one. Panasonic acknowledges it. I have both capacities. It’s true.

Bottom line, AAA lithium based….seriously doubt it’s worth your time and expense. I use a dozen AA Tenavolt lithium, like them, use them regularly, but have not yet found a compelling reason to get the AAA. They have to come WAY down in price to even make it worth an experiment.

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I use these in my C01. They are micro USB rechargeable and they give about 6 hours of light before LVP kicks in. Great for this application.

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I got 2 sets (courtesy of vipon) which work beautifully.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0824WB5ST/

They keep and maintain a solid 1.5V from fresh out of the charger right up to the second they drop dead. And that’s all it takes, ie, zero warning (no dimming or anything) between delivering full power to going teats-up.

Most are current-limited, as there’s only so much you can drain from a “10440” (of course a shorter version, similar to a 14430+reg being stuffed into a 14500 can). But they’re perfect for optical mice, remotes, etc. Anything you don’t want ruined by alkaleaks. Hell, I couldn’t scrounge a pair of alkaleaks that had enough oomf to work a pulse-oximeter I got, remembered I had these lying around, plopped in a pair, and off we go!

They’ll power AAA lights just fine, too, and not dim as SOC decreases like an alkaleak would. But there’s that inevitable case of SIDS as the Li cell hits its cutoff. Was unnerving the first time I experienced it in the basement with my Xeno. Light… light… light… light… light… dark! Zero warning.

For an optical mouse, remote, etc., bfd. Some have usb micro ports, others charge just like a regular Li cell… but from straight 5V from the usb port!! Those “chargers” just feed unfettered 5V from the usb input to the cells, and the cell’s internal charger does its thing. Swap regular alkaleaks for an hour or so, or just wait that long while the little buggers recharge, then swap ‘em back in.

Most mice, remotes, etc., couldn’t care less what the nominal “mAH” rating is. So you charge it every 4mos of typical usage vs every 6mos or 8mos. Like I said, bfd. The convenience and lack of typical corrosive incontinence is more than worth it.

 

One other possibility as far as ease of use would be for those devices (again, typically mice and remotes) that take 2 cells. Plop in a single LFP cell and a dummy cell for rock-solid 3.2V for the “pair”. Again, maybe not the same capacity if you’re chasing those “mAH”, but nigh-zero chance of leakage.

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Lightbringer
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flydiver wrote:
A special 5v USB charge is required. This is noted in the details if you read them. [Only charged by Deleepow Lithium battery charger]

Yeh, like my Tenavolts AAs. No usb port on the cells, simply force-feed ‘em 5V the “wrong” way to charge ‘em.

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Lightbringer
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river345 wrote:
Good point. I was thinking a 14500 is 1000mAh at 3.7V, so maybe 2000mA at 1.5V isn’t out of the question. But you’re right that 2700mAh plus extra circuitry isn’t realistic. Thanks for the reality check.

Don’t forget that eneloops (NiMH) are 1.2V, not 1.5V. So the converted cells are outputting a higher 1.5V, not 1.2V.

So let’s say 14500 at 1000mAH, nominally “3.7” (from 4.2V down to, say, 3.0V at cutoff; integrating is left as an exercise for the reader). Bucked down to 1.5V, that’s 2467mAH equivalent, assuming 100% conversion efficiency.

A 1.2V cell would have to step up to 1.5V, or we’d have to step down to NiMH levels. Same formula… we get 3083mAH equivalent.

Taking a sloppy 90% conversion, that’s 2775mAH.

So we’re pretty close to the touted equivalent for NiMH. Only this beastie is putting out 1.5V instead of 1.2V.

Now, my cheep-cheep-cheep EBLs are only 900mAH or so, so I’d scale down if I were to try to come up with a NiMH equivalent.

Either way, I couldn’t care. What I use them for, they work perfectly well. And they don’t crap the bed and ruin whatever they’re put into, like those hateful little alkaleaks do. And even in 2×AAA penlights, they work perfectly well, and don’t dim as the cells run down. But there’s that unexpected crib-death again when the runt of the litter runs out of juice. Instant lights-out. Keep that in mind when using them, and these cells work beautifully.

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wle
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the details say 800 mah (not a review, the company data)

they are very expensive, this would be 16 normal AAAs at least

wle

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robk
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They don’t say mAh, they say mWh, so figuring they’re 1.5 volts that would indicate 800/1.5 so 533 mAh unless I’m mistaken (which happens frequently).

flydiver
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Following up on this thread. I got some of the HuaHui AAA @Lightbringer linked to. (I also got some AA > pathetic, sent them back.)

I did full capacity testing on them. You can find the full review on both AA and AAA here. Below is just the AAA text.

Did not matter if I used 0.5A, or 0.2A down to 1.0v. I consistently got about 290-300mAh.
Interestingly they seemed to hold voltage as well if not better than the AA.
Specifications indicate 600mWh. (about 400mAh). So these are 3/4 of claimed. Not up to spec.
[They also claim “1.5V/600mAh high capacity Lithium batteries “ which I think is a typo, as they later specify 600mWh. This typo does NOT help their case.]

(Note – a decent AAA NiMh will have and honest 700-800mAh capacity).
The USB plug in the charger ‘octopus’ works. The plug is a bit stiff and fiddly, requiring some concentration to get it straight and commitment to plug it in. I have a couple other brands in 14500 size and the plug is simply much better.

No idea what the long term reliability will be. I’m going to keep these and try them out in select devices.
The similar chemistry Tenavolt AA I have are used in LED night lights, toothbrush, and foam soap dispenser constantly. Current demand is not high. They get charged ~ monthly and have been going strong for a year, which is a short time actually for a good AA cell.

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Lightbringer wrote:
….they don’t crap the bed and ruin whatever they’re put into, like those hateful little alkaleaks do. And even in 2xAAA penlights, they work perfectly well, and don’t dim as the cells run down. But there’s that unexpected crib-death again when the runt of the litter runs out of juice. ……

I love reading your posts Lightbringer. Mostly because they are factually accurate and I often learn something new, but the color commentary and additional descriptors spices the words up nicely.

…..“hateful little alkaleaks”… haha!