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Joshk
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Bitcoin discussion

I’m interested in buying some bitcoin and holding it long term in hopes of it increasing in value. It seems I will need to find an exchange that can convert my dollars to bitcoin. But no exchange seems to give you full control of your own keys. The phrase “Not your keys, not your coins” is meant to warn buyers like me of the risks of not owning your private keys. So it seems my only choice is to…
1) Find an exchange with low fees, and use them for the conversion.
2) Transfer the balance out to a new wallet that only I have the private keys for.
3) Stash my wallet’s keys in a safe place, and finally rest assured the coins are under my control.

I have no need to stay anonymous. But I have real concerns over the exchanges getting hacked, or the exchanges refusing to let me spend my money without a waiting period.

Anyone have experience? It seems as though step2 requires creating a bitcoin server. I don’t really want to, but I don’t know how else to be the sole owner of my wallet.

Edited by: Joshk on 01/04/2021 - 16:58
kennybobby
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Run away, just run and don’t look back.

Buy gold or silver coins if you want real assets that will hold value. Silver has the greater industrial value, but gold holds more monetary value due to supply and demand. Until Nixon, both have always been used as the reserve backing for paper money.

imo digital “coins” are an illusion built on a pyramid scheme, looking for fools and suckers. Worth less than paper if that is even possible due to its virtual nature. ymmv

just my 2¢,
kb

Now i used to think that i was cool,
drivin' around on fossil fuel,
until i saw what i was doin',
was drivin' down the road to ruin. --JT

Joshk
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Until 2020 I had no interest in it. But with the economies of the world vibrating, bitcoin’s usefulness has increased.

Joshk
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I must have posted the correct solution. The internet didn’t disagree with me. Steve

lazerEagle
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You can make your own wallet easily and transfer from the broker address to your personal one. The issue with bitcoin is most exchanges/brokers will happily take your fiat for crypto but rarely the other way. Making it only good for Internet points.

- the best way to predict the future is to create it -

Lightbringer
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lazerEagle wrote:
The issue with bitcoin is most exchanges/brokers will happily take your fiat for crypto but rarely the other way. Making it only good for Internet points.

That’s my biggest concern.

That and KYC requirements most banks seem to love, no doubt to also demand buy-vs-sell prices (for tax purposes).

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zoulas
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kennybobby wrote:
Run away, just run and don’t look back.

Buy gold or silver coins if you want real assets that will hold value. Silver has the greater industrial value, but gold holds more monetary value due to supply and demand. Until Nixon, both have always been used as the reserve backing for paper money.

imo digital “coins” are an illusion built on a pyramid scheme, looking for fools and suckers. Worth less than paper if that is even possible due to its virtual nature. ymmv

just my 2¢,
kb

This is the guy you need to listen to. He speaks the truth.

Joshk
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Lightbringer wrote:
lazerEagle wrote:
The issue with bitcoin is most exchanges/brokers will happily take your fiat for crypto but rarely the other way. Making it only good for Internet points.

That’s my biggest concern.

That and KYC requirements most banks seem to love, no doubt to also demand buy-vs-sell prices (for tax purposes).

Home Depot takes it. And Bitpay will convert it to Amazon gift cards. Home Depot and Amazon pretty much cover anything I could want to buy. But you are correct that I should keep my investing in the range of what I could spend at those places.

Joshk
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zoulas wrote:
kennybobby wrote:
Run away, just run and don’t look back.

Buy gold or silver coins if you want real assets that will hold value. Silver has the greater industrial value, but gold holds more monetary value due to supply and demand. Until Nixon, both have always been used as the reserve backing for paper money.

imo digital “coins” are an illusion built on a pyramid scheme, looking for fools and suckers. Worth less than paper if that is even possible due to its virtual nature. ymmv

just my 2¢,
kb

This is the guy you need to listen to. He speaks the truth.

idk. He’s some random internet guy. I have a degree in Business with a minor in Economics. Silly

kennybobby
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Any thoughts or ideas about what economic or business factors are involved with the exchange rate?

What determines the value of these “coins”—it went up over $4k in just the past 2 weeks.

i don’t have the formal education, but i have 40 years of experience with high negative returns on my savings and nest-egg money several times in stock market investments, both with “professional” advice (Merrill Lynch) and on my own research.

Now i used to think that i was cool,
drivin' around on fossil fuel,
until i saw what i was doin',
was drivin' down the road to ruin. --JT

zoulas
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High risk, High reward. This is finance 101. Anything that goes up so fast, can and will go down equally fast.

Joshk
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Sorry about your loss kennybobby.
Bitcoin is like the stock market, the people that want a share of it are bidding against each other.
They are both volatile, but the ‘useful’ thing is that their volatility is somewhat reversed… Meaning investors tend to choose with each dollar they invest, do I want a piece of the future economy (stocks), or do I want to disconnect from the economy (bitcoin). So with the US Gov. printing more money to pump out, they are watering down the value of existing money. All while the chances of a full economy reboot are looking harder and harder. So for these reasons (and a few others) the current Bitcoin surge is for real-world reasons rather than the 2018 FOMO craze.
My decision to experiment with Bitcoin is just diversification, not the pursuit of profits. Your traditional view is that the a savings account is the safest place for your money. But these days your savings account effectively shrinks ~15% per year. Can you afford to lose that?

Joshk
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I should clarify too- Bitcoin is not an alternative to savings. It’s an alternative form of investing. Never invest more than you are willing to lose.

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Bitcoin atm is TOO volatile to invest in now safely, if you invested early on when the price was low then its all uphill. But now with how it fluctuates in my opinion not worth the risk. Better to invest in index funds they have a fairly strong history with returns and generally double investment in 10 years give or take with an average of 7% annual dividend payouts that are reinvested.

Joshk
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And that’s solid thinking. But the economic situation is primed to give Bitcoin the credibility it needs in the year to come. IF it gains that cred, today will become the day it was a bargain. And the peak-and-fall that will inevitably come will both stay above today’s price. Today then becomes the “if you invested early” you mentioned.

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PSA I am not a financial adviser. My opinions are only that, opinions. Big Smile

Well, I have day traded off and on for 12 years. I got into crypto about 3 1/2 years ago. There is a lot of money to be made in crypto. Don’t let anyone tell you different. Long term, “investment”, I’m not sure. Day trading crypto is awesome. 24/7 365 market, and no settlement waiting period. But it sick that being in the USA, we can’t short or trade in crypto. (I had a VPN so I didn’t live in the USA ;))
The most stable and trustworthy exchange I have found for US traders is Coinbase. When I started on there they only had four pairings.
But don’t be fooled by the recent spike. It had been three years coming. It’s been a bear market, and I suspect it will correct again after the first of the year. Altcoins are my thing. They tend to follow BTC.

I would say educate yourself as much as possible! I am mostly a fibonacci/Elliott wave trader.

I could go on all day about this. I would say find a successful crypto trader and start learning. Look at different traders, different strategies, all that.

Learn learn learn.
Then, learn some more. I’m still learning.
Many experts say gold and silver and yada yada are bad investments. People get into gold in case of the collapse of FIAT. Thats all bologna. We aren’t going to use precious metal as currency again. If there was a collapse, I believe crypto will be the safety net. Blockchain is robust, secure, and anonymous. You can already use it as legal tender at many places across the country, (stores and whatnot), and they have been rolling out ATM machines for a few years where you can withdraw real money out based on current exchange rate.
Now, in my opinion, it does fluctuate too much currently to be a viable, spendable currency for sure.
I would encourage you to explore it.

Ok, I’ve rambled long enough. Lol

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Muto
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Joshk wrote:
And that’s solid thinking. But the economic situation is primed to give Bitcoin the credibility it needs in the year to come. IF it gains that cred, today will become the day it was a bargain. And the peak-and-fall that will inevitably come will both stay above today’s price. Today then becomes the “if you invested early” you mentioned.

Sounds like you made your mind up.
Go DEEP!
and good luck.

Stuff is VooDoo to me, can’t see it, smell it, etc.
Ya I know, so is faith in whatever brand of spirit/idol/book you do/do not subscribe to.
So it goes.

The difference between Hoarding and Collecting is the illusion of Organization
.
.“I will get one of flashlight from patrol car”

“History doesn’t repeat itself, but it sometimes rhymes,” Mark Twain

After the Apocalypse there will be only 2 things left alive, Cockroaches and Keith Richards

DSTdrummer
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Oh and one more thing.
Open a free TradingView account and I think you can paper trade on there on the computer, but not the app.

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-The history of the world exists between the down beat, and the next down beat. That space....that’s what defines who the drummer is.

-Don't try to be what ya ain't. Find out what you're good at and be the best one of it.

Lightbringer
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zoulas wrote:
High risk, High reward. This is finance 101. Anything that goes up so fast, can and will go down equally fast.

I wish. I’d buy on the dips.

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Joshk
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@DSTdrummer, thanks for the ramblings, I wish I had learned more about it in the past. I just never had any interest in it until now.

@Muto, I did! I bought $100 just before opening this thread. lol. I opened the thread in hopes of learning more and considering buying more.

Serlite
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In terms of places you can spend it, Bitrefill has a pretty good reputation for exchanging it to gift cards – and they give 1% back, which is better than nothing.
And FastTech accepts Bitcoin as a payment method! So you can actually go straight from Bitcoin into flashlights, haha.

DSTdrummer
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[quote=Joshk]@DSTdrummer, thanks for the ramblings, I wish I had learned more about it in the past. I just never had any interest in it until now.

Yeah, I have to be careful cuz I’ll yammer on and on about it. Lol

Good luck to ya!

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-The history of the world exists between the down beat, and the next down beat. That space....that’s what defines who the drummer is.

-Don't try to be what ya ain't. Find out what you're good at and be the best one of it.

Omega_17
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Quote:
Buy gold or silver coins if you want real assets that will hold value

It will be only be true if there is a real collapse and you can’t use the internet. Most people are just mad that so many early investors became millionaires for a ridiculously low amount of money,

Joshk
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@DSTdrummer, so you are day trading alt coin? What are the returns on that? Does it pay the bills? I don’t know anything about it myself, and I’m interested if you want to share Smile

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Joshk wrote:
@DSTdrummer, so you are day trading alt coin? What are the returns on that? Does it pay the bills? I don’t know anything about it myself, and I’m interested if you want to share Smile

I’m not trading at the moment, but I did for a while. Me and the wife are focusing on starting a brick and mortar business.
And yes, it can pay the bills. Notice I said CAN not WILL. You can lose a loooot of money. Day trading skill is something that takes time to hone. I was just talking to a buddy of mine the other day, actually the guy that got me into it. He said he looks back and realizes how little he knew when he got started.

There are a ton of, “rules”, to learn. But the most important I can say are-
-Learn analysis.
-When you actually get in to trading. Set up your trade. Do it on paper if you have to. Know when you think you want in, and set when you’ll get out. Don’t deviate. If the price goes higher than you thought, it is what it is. Don’t chase it!
-Which leads me to, don’t get caught up in FOMO. (Fear Of Missing Out).

There is way, WAY too much to get into here. If you don’t know anything about trading, like I said before. Check YouTube. Lots of good traders teaching analysis on there. But look at many different traders. They will all have different ways of going about things, and use different indicators and so on. But you can test them on paper and see what works for you.
I followed a very successful trader that goes by Philakone. Hes in Canada so he can short and all that, but he’s really, REALLY good at it and become a multimillionaire in like a couple of years. He has had issues and was a hot mess for a while and might still be, lol. He was doing drugstore and calling folks out and all kinds of drama. But that was a different kind of fun to watch. Lol

Anyhoo, if you don’t know anything at all about trading, take the time to soak up knowledge. If you do know about trading, take more time to soak up knowledge about crypto.
Again, I can’t even scratch the surface here.
I wish you good luck, and I would encourage anyone to at least give it a shot.

Donnie

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-The history of the world exists between the down beat, and the next down beat. That space....that’s what defines who the drummer is.

-Don't try to be what ya ain't. Find out what you're good at and be the best one of it.

Joshk
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Yea the fact you used to day-trade, learned a lot, and now don’t, is probably a good warning to me. It seems though that using stocks you expect to do good long-term should provide a safety net. If you fail to make a profit during the day, you just keep holding the stock until you recover your loss. I imagine that’s part of the trick, no?

DSTdrummer
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Joshk wrote:
Yea the fact you used to day-trade, learned a lot, and now don’t, is probably a good warning to me. It seems though that using stocks you expect to do good long-term should provide a safety net. If you fail to make a profit during the day, you just keep holding the stock until you recover your loss. I imagine that’s part of the trick, no?

I’m not out forever. I still don’t work a real job. Lol

Like I said. It’s really hard to get into all the intricacies in this format. But in day trading, you don’t hold too much. You might have swing trades going at the same time you are day trading.

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-The history of the world exists between the down beat, and the next down beat. That space....that’s what defines who the drummer is.

-Don't try to be what ya ain't. Find out what you're good at and be the best one of it.

klrman
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Bitcoin is tricky because you have billionaires that can convert it  into cash in an instance but the rest of us they make us jump through hoops.  

 

Savings accounts suck too with the ridiculous interest rates, but in the long run it's going to go negative no matter what anyone says.  If

you search for an IMF document, you will see the plan outlined in detail about CBDC's and how they plan to screw anyone  with a

savings account.  Best way is to diversify safely and also have hard assets for safety such as different types of real estate.

DSTdrummer
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klrman wrote:

Bitcoin is tricky because you have billionaires that can convert it  into cash in an instance but the rest of us they make us jump through hoops.

I’m not sure what you mean. I always got in to trades and sold instantly. Actually, depending on the coin and the market cap, the more you hold the harder it becomes to sell.
As for converting to cash. You find you account with $9000, you buy 1 BTC at $9000, then you sell 1 BTC at $10,000. Then you can initiate a deposit to your bank account just like say, PayPal. You transfer 10,000 USD to your bank. It will take whatever time it normally takes to transfer.I mean, it is what it is. It’s just an electronic transfer of funds.

klrman wrote:

Savings accounts suck too with the ridiculous interest rates

Again, I don’t understand. In day trading, you always end the day in your domestic currency. My exchange accounts are always settled at days end, and when I am done trading for the day, my account holds money in USD. And when I sell the aforementioned 1 BTC, it is instantaneous.

Unless you are talking about buying and hodling, (not a typo). Then I revert back to my previous statement. That I’m not sure crypto is I great long term investment. I could be wrong about that, but I’m a day trader at heart. Only time will tell.

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-The history of the world exists between the down beat, and the next down beat. That space....that’s what defines who the drummer is.

-Don't try to be what ya ain't. Find out what you're good at and be the best one of it.

DSTdrummer
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I’ve been contemplating the Forex market.
Not much movement, so it’s a lot of margin trading. But it’s very lucrative if you have the nerve to use higher leverage. Shocked

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-The history of the world exists between the down beat, and the next down beat. That space....that’s what defines who the drummer is.

-Don't try to be what ya ain't. Find out what you're good at and be the best one of it.

klrman
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DSTdrummer wrote:
klrman wrote:

Bitcoin is tricky because you have billionaires that can convert it  into cash in an instance but the rest of us they make us jump through hoops.

I’m not sure what you mean. I always got in to trades and sold instantly. Actually, depending on the coin and the market cap, the more you hold the harder it becomes to sell. As for converting to cash. You find you account with $9000, you buy 1 BTC at $9000, then you sell 1 BTC at $10,000. Then you can initiate a deposit to your bank account just like say, PayPal. You transfer 10,000 USD to your bank. It will take whatever time it normally takes to transfer.I mean, it is what it is. It’s just an electronic transfer of funds.
klrman wrote:

Savings accounts suck too with the ridiculous interest rates

Again, I don’t understand. In day trading, you always end the day in your domestic currency. My exchange accounts are always settled at days end, and when I am done trading for the day, my account holds money in USD. And when I sell the aforementioned 1 BTC, it is instantaneous. Unless you are talking about buying and hodling, (not a typo). Then I revert back to my previous statement. That I’m not sure crypto is I great long term investment. I could be wrong about that, but I’m a day trader at heart. Only time will tell.

 

By savings account I mean just parking your own money in a regular bank savings account and were this is headed, nothing to do at all with bitcoin at all because some here were talking about diversifying investments etc.

 

Still don't trust bitcoin at all because there is no safety net if you try and sell it if and the exchange gets hacked in the process or the exchange goes under.  And why does it become harder to sell bitcoin the more you have of it when the whales can offload their money without any hassle?   Something doesn't add up, but I will say that it would be fun to jump in an out with smaller amounts and keep playing it that way.

 

 

 

 

 

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