Thrower for SAR

27 posts / 0 new
Last post
cwood
Offline
Last seen: 3 days 19 hours ago
Joined: 02/15/2021 - 08:53
Posts: 5
Location: austria
Thrower for SAR

Hey Guys,

I’m looking for a thrower to use in SAR operations.
Currently I’m quite happy with convoy flashlights.
Has someone of you compared the L6 and the L21A?

regards,
cwood

Chicken Drumstick
Offline
Last seen: 13 hours 46 min ago
Joined: 08/27/2012 - 05:00
Posts: 2757
Location: UK

What kind of SAR? Are you on foot, in a boat, a car, a helicopter?

Do you have a budget?

If not on foot, then maybe something like this would be useful:
https://www.nealsgadgets.com/products/lumintop-blf-gt94-flashlight

Or a bit more compact:
https://www.banggood.com/Astrolux-MF04-XHP35-HI-CW-2700LM-7Modes-Dimming...LED-Flashlight-p-1289449.html?cur_warehouse=CN&rmmds=search

The L21A is a nice budget coat pocket sized thrower. But a lot less range than the ones above. Also with the Osram W1 or W2 LEDs the beam is quite narrow. So while you can light stuff up a long way off, you’d need to wave it about a lot to cover any kind of area.

More money, but the SBT.90 equipped K1 might be better overall than the L21A. Although I’m not sure on run times. I guess a spare battery would work though.

cwood
Offline
Last seen: 3 days 19 hours ago
Joined: 02/15/2021 - 08:53
Posts: 5
Location: austria

I’m on foot as a dog handler looking for missing people.

My budget is about $100,- for flashlight, batteries and charger.

I’m looking for a flashlight with a tight beam and only a verry light spill. Thats why I’m interested in the L6 and L21A.
For a narrow range I’ve got the C8+.

My desired battery life is about 1 hour on high.

To be fair, the K1 SBT.90 has realy realy nice beamshots.

Chicken Drumstick
Offline
Last seen: 13 hours 46 min ago
Joined: 08/27/2012 - 05:00
Posts: 2757
Location: UK

I like the L21A. But it isn’t that the beam is tightly focused. It is that it is also quite small too. Maybe this is what you’d be after. But you are covering less ground with a small hot spot. I haven’t done S&R, but I’d have thought covering more ground than less would be beneficial.

On the flip side, as the W2 isn’t a lumen monster, it does mean it holds it output and distance very well. I think in some cases the high lumen lights, kind of muscle their way to big beam distances, but only when they are cranked up. Drop the lumens and they loose the distance quickly. While something like the small Osram LEDs will still throw really well even when ramped down onto lower modes.

This was my take on it:

Not that I’d suggest an FT03 XHP50.2, but here is my comparison. My train of thought is, even at these relatively close ranges, scanning the field I could easily miss a person with the L21A, but it would be almost impossible to do so with the FT03.

The FT03 can be had with the SBT.90 for less than the K1. But I have no idea on runtimes or heat when they are producing the beam distance. For under $100 including batteries and charger. The L21A is likely to have the most throw for your money.

Monkeyboab
Monkeyboab's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 3 days ago
Joined: 12/30/2019 - 17:24
Posts: 17

Convoy L21A is great but the C8 with osram W1 is not far behind it on throw. The S11 with osram and 8A is also a great thrower with a slightly wider beam. I mostly carry the Emisar D1 as it’s small and throws well, the KR1 might be a good shout.

Chicken Drumstick
Offline
Last seen: 13 hours 46 min ago
Joined: 08/27/2012 - 05:00
Posts: 2757
Location: UK

Monkeyboab wrote:
Convoy L21A is great but the C8 with osram W1 is not far behind it on throw. The S11 with osram and 8A is also a great thrower with a slightly wider beam. I mostly carry the Emisar D1 as it’s small and throws well, the KR1 might be a good shout.

I have an older Convoy C8 that I put the W1 in and the 5amp Convoy driver. I measure 93,000cd on my rig at home vs 300,000cd for the L21A with the W2 HX. My W2 KR1 does over 94,000cd on the same rig.

I admit the C8 has an OP reflector, as that was all I had. A SMO should make it throw more, but it won’t be doubling the cd I’m sure.

Unheard
Unheard's picture
Online
Last seen: 6 min 57 sec ago
Joined: 01/16/2019 - 11:38
Posts: 1602
Location: Germany

I might be completely wrong as I never went on such a mission, but the first light that comes to my mind is the Olight R50. It’s only about 300m throw (means 100m usable beam distance at most), but has a very broad spill, allowing for a good overview. I believe it’s the king in the forest and on small fields.

If you’d invite me on a SAR mission, I’d take it with me along with a SST40 FT03 for really long range.

Unfortunately, the R50 is no longer available and has no successor with its characteristics.

Smile, you cannot kill them all.

alpg88
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 10 hours ago
Joined: 10/11/2013 - 12:35
Posts: 1068
Location: usa

acebeam k75

Monkeyboab
Monkeyboab's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 3 days ago
Joined: 12/30/2019 - 17:24
Posts: 17

Chicken Drumstick wrote:
Monkeyboab wrote:
Convoy L21A is great but the C8 with osram W1 is not far behind it on throw. The S11 with osram and 8A is also a great thrower with a slightly wider beam. I mostly carry the Emisar D1 as it’s small and throws well, the KR1 might be a good shout.

I have an older Convoy C8 that I put the W1 in and the 5amp Convoy driver. I measure 93,000cd on my rig at home vs 300,000cd for the L21A with the W2 HX. My W2 KR1 does over 94,000cd on the same rig.

I admit the C8 has an OP reflector, as that was all I had. A SMO should make it throw more, but it won’t be doubling the cd I’m sure.

I do fancy a KR1. I’ve got the C8 with SMO reflector and side by side with the L21A to my eyes the C8 doesn’t lack much. It’s a good bit smaller and lighter though.

cwood
Offline
Last seen: 3 days 19 hours ago
Joined: 02/15/2021 - 08:53
Posts: 5
Location: austria

To geht this clear, i don’t need the flashlight to search for people, thats what my dog is for.
I need it to watch, what my dog is doing. Wink

In my experience a flashlight with an op reflector or at least a bright spill is quite counterproductive in an woodland environmand, what is common in Austria. You’ll get so many bright reflections from trees an leaves, that you won’t see very far.

Some of your suggestions are quite interesting, especially the one with built in USB-C charging. But the ones like the acebeam k75 are to large an heavy.

Pavlo
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 20 hours ago
Joined: 12/13/2015 - 10:37
Posts: 862
Location: Canada

If size is a factor and you have to carry it in your backpack and hike, I would consider the Catapult V6.
It offers great throw, with a good sized spill. Its very compact and the 26650 single battery offers very good capacity.

ArturoSC1
Online
Last seen: 10 min 51 sec ago
Joined: 07/13/2017 - 07:34
Posts: 53
Location: Spain

Cheap C8 w1 is fine for you, better M21A w2. And you can try putting a tube on the head to dismiss spill

Oli
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 11 hours ago
Joined: 08/03/2018 - 21:03
Posts: 302
Location: United States

cwood wrote:

I need it to watch, what my dog is doing. Wink

In my experience a flashlight with an op reflector or at least a bright spill is quite counterproductive in an woodland environmand, what is common in Austria. You’ll get so many bright reflections from trees an leaves, that you won’t see very far.

For that same reason you don’t want anything that is cold white. It lights up and reflects back everything between you and what you’re trying to see beyond those objects. Nothing over 5000k and lower if you can find it.
cwood
Offline
Last seen: 3 days 19 hours ago
Joined: 02/15/2021 - 08:53
Posts: 5
Location: austria

ArturoSC1 wrote:
Cheap C8 w1 is fine for you, better M21A w2. And you can try putting a tube on the head to dismiss spill

I already got an convoy s2+, M1 and C8+, but I do want something even mor throwing.

Oli wrote:
For that same reason you don’t want anything that is cold white. It lights up and reflects back everything between you and what you’re trying to see beyond those objects. Nothing over 5000k and lower if you can find it.

Thanks, I’ll keep that in mind.
Sirstinky
Offline
Last seen: 6 hours 29 min ago
Joined: 11/02/2018 - 17:07
Posts: 1038
Location: Vancouver, WA

For around $100, I like the Acebeam L18 or slightly more money L19. They have buck drivers for long, linear runtime with constant output, dual switches, and both throw over 800 m with minimal spill due to the optics. If you can swing the L19, I tested this light to throw 1300 meters and the L18 to throw 900 meters. It’s Acebeam so high quality lights with charging built into the batteries.

Acebeam L18

Acebeam L19

sgt253
Offline
Last seen: 13 hours 8 min ago
Joined: 11/27/2015 - 21:21
Posts: 61
Location: USA

How about a Noctigon K1? Don“t know if its the right size for you. Throws very well with minimal spill.

Lightbringer
Lightbringer's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 hours 29 min ago
Joined: 08/30/2016 - 14:12
Posts: 13756
Location: nyc

If you don’t want blowback from too much spill reflecting off stuff right near you, go with a LEP. Pricier, but zero spill.

Or try a big zoomie like a Jaxman Z1. Don’t think Brynite still sells the venerable B158, but they do carry the Artemis (white/red/green in one, selectable on the fly).

I got a Cometa, a “cheaper” version (lesser-quality lens, for one) of the original Z1, and Mr Jax has an updated Z1 which is brighter, etc.

09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0

Oli
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 11 hours ago
Joined: 08/03/2018 - 21:03
Posts: 302
Location: United States

cwood wrote:

In my experience a flashlight with an op reflector or at least a bright spill is quite counterproductive in an woodland environmand, what is common in Austria. You’ll get so many bright reflections from trees an leaves, that you won’t see very far.

After thinking about it some more I suspect that most of what you’re interpreting as a spill problem already is a cold white problem that you’re dealing with. And many/most/all? of these new fancy schmancy throwing lights are cold white. Not good with a lot of trees and bushes around. You’ll notice that people pick their spots for beam shots that don’t look anything like where you have to see your dog.
ArturoSC1
Online
Last seen: 10 min 51 sec ago
Joined: 07/13/2017 - 07:34
Posts: 53
Location: Spain

cwood wrote:
ArturoSC1 wrote:
Cheap C8 w1 is fine for you, better M21A w2. And you can try putting a tube on the head to dismiss spill

I already got an convoy s2+, M1 and C8+, but I do want something even mor throwing.
Oli wrote:
For that same reason you don’t want anything that is cold white. It lights up and reflects back everything between you and what you’re trying to see beyond those objects. Nothing over 5000k and lower if you can find it.
Thanks, I’ll keep that in mind.

C8 w1? It throws 850 meter easily

lawallac
lawallac's picture
Offline
Last seen: 16 hours 36 min ago
Joined: 01/04/2012 - 15:31
Posts: 486
Location: WI

I have a K1 in the 90.2 and it’s prob my overall favorite light. But depending on how long you need to run it, it may not fit your needs. It is fairly compact and puts out a ton of light. I’ve got a ton of lights that don’t see more then 2 min of use on turbo. Mostly because I don’t need them that long, but also they are hotrods like the K1 on turbo will overheat if ran that long. Both the heatsinking and the battery reserve are really inadequate for any high output useage. If I am going to be using a light on high or turbo for extended amounts of time I’d grab a Thrunite TN40s. With this light I have no worries running it on the highest setting for any duration. The light is smaller than you might think. With 4 18650s I pulled this from their posting Strobe(1100 lumens /9hrs),
Turbo(4450 lumens/85mins),
High(1780 lumens /2.7hrs),
Medium(580 lumens /9.5hrs),
Low(90 lumens /2.5days),
Firefly (1.2 lumens /57days).

Peak beam intensity: 331200cd.
Max beam distance: 1151m.
vs
K1
SBT90.2 LED, 5700K, 4500lm, Lux: 420Kcd (420,000cd)

Jabe1
Offline
Last seen: 9 hours 13 min ago
Joined: 08/17/2015 - 23:45
Posts: 50
Location: Ohio

Consider how far away you can see, even with a light. Usually anything more than a few hundred meters is overkill.
I would be looking at a smaller, 21700 light with a 4000k emitter and reasonable throw.
Also, I think a reflective harness on the dog, together with an illuminated collar or fob would make it a great deal more effective.

jeff51
jeff51's picture
Offline
Last seen: 10 hours 35 min ago
Joined: 03/26/2019 - 17:36
Posts: 745
Location: Middle of Texas

Take a look at the Sofirn SP70. Lots of light. But a bit heavy.
Also the Streamlight Protac HL 5-X. The TIR front end give a different spot and spill.
I did a review here
https://budgetlightforum.com/node/68978
All the Best,
Jeff

Chicken Drumstick
Offline
Last seen: 13 hours 46 min ago
Joined: 08/27/2012 - 05:00
Posts: 2757
Location: UK

cwood wrote:
To geht this clear, i don’t need the flashlight to search for people, thats what my dog is for.
I need it to watch, what my dog is doing. Wink

In my experience a flashlight with an op reflector or at least a bright spill is quite counterproductive in an woodland environmand, what is common in Austria. You’ll get so many bright reflections from trees an leaves, that you won’t see very far.

Some of your suggestions are quite interesting, especially the one with built in USB-C charging. But the ones like the acebeam k75 are to large an heavy.


Thanks for clarifying. I guess keeping track of your dog and actively using the light to search for people are quite different use cases.

In terms of reflection from trees and the like. I sort of get what you mean, but without being there to experience it, I guess it is difficult to really grasp how much of an issue this is and how much is beam profile vs tint etc.

A thin beam will allow you to shine ‘through’ the trees some what. But a more intense hot spot is likely to reflect back at you more intently too. I suspect a floody light does light up more in trees but where the light doesn’t reach will appear darker and the trees you are lighting up will cause shadows behind them. I wonder if this is more the issue?

As for which light…..

The L21A is a great light with the W2 HX LED. And for the money it is good value for money. But they are only available in cool white. But it isn’t a horrid colour. In trees I’d assume your distance/line of sight is actually rather limited. So I’m still not sure how useful the beam would actually be. As closer up the beam is smaller.

A plus point for the L21A is the 21700 battery and heatsinking. These will give good long runtimes without ramping.

A major downside IMO is the balance and weight of the light. They are head heavy, so it won’t just ‘sit’ in your hand. You will actively have to point it and hold it up. I think for prolonged use this would get very tiring and weighty.

Maybe the M21 or a C8 with the same LED in would be nicer to hold and carry. And still offer the right type of beam?

I guess the FT03 SST-40 might work too. Not a dedicated thrower, but nicer to carry than the L21A. More of a traditional beam profile. Good spill, but fairly intense hotspot and moderately good throw.

The KR1 would also fit the budget, the most easy to carry and pocket friendly. But an 18650 will give lower runtimes (same with the C8). KR1 is smaller, so will heat up more if using Turbo.

Lastly and thinking out of the box a little. YLP Falcon F15:
https://ylplight.com/en/katalog/1/falcon-f15/

Now this won’t be a throw monster. But the zoomy head will let you focus the beam for when you are in the trees. And the throw is pretty good for this size class. Should be easy and comfy to hold and carry too. And the lower output/amps mean runtimes on an 18650 will be better than the KR1/C8 with the Osram LEDs. I think there is a BLF code for these too.

Deputy Dog
Deputy Dog's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 3 days ago
Joined: 09/15/2017 - 07:53
Posts: 434
Location: behind you

I’m a dog handler as well. For me, I keep different lights with me or in my truck, I probably use my acebeam T27 the most.

cwood
Offline
Last seen: 3 days 19 hours ago
Joined: 02/15/2021 - 08:53
Posts: 5
Location: austria

Chicken Drumstick wrote:

In terms of reflection from trees and the like. I sort of get what you mean, but without being there to experience it, I guess it is difficult to really grasp how much of an issue this is and how much is beam profile vs tint etc.

A thin beam will allow you to shine ‘through’ the trees some what. But a more intense hot spot is likely to reflect back at you more intently too. I suspect a floody light does light up more in trees but where the light doesn’t reach will appear darker and the trees you are lighting up will cause shadows behind them. I wonder if this is more the issue?

You get my problem straight to the point Wink
I think I’ll have to try different lights to see whats the best for me.

One thing i haven’t known was the problem with the reflection of cw light, thank you all for mention that.

Deputy Dog wrote:
I’m a dog handler as well. For me, I keep different lights with me or in my truck, I probably use my acebeam T27 the most.

It’s clear for me to use different lights in different situations. For close range I already have lights I’m happy with, but i have nothing for longe range.
The T27 has realy nice beamshots. Thanks for that.
JaredM
JaredM's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 hours 43 min ago
Joined: 10/31/2011 - 13:33
Posts: 1486
Location: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

CW definitely scatters more and causes harsher reflections. BUT, and this is coming from a hi-CRI obsessed person, sometimes it’s better at showing contrast. I find in the winter here in the snowy Appalachian woods, where you have three colors.. Brown, white, and darkness. I’ve found that when everything is shades of brown, somehow the color fidelity issues with some CW LEDs actually help add contrast. I wish I could take good pictures to show what I mean, and YMMV. If I were to try to explain it another way.. for me, the ‘greyscale’ is easier to pick out objects than with a ‘brownscale’.

Best advice I have is to try different lights. Check the FS adds and see what you can get cheap. Lightbringer mentioned a zoomie called a Jaxman Z1, that’s good advice for you IMO. If you’re so inclined, it’s a great easy host to start doing emitter swaps and figure out what works best for your environment, eyes, and taste. You can put a range of emitters in that host and have anything from a 300+kcd thrower to a high lumen even flood light.

Best advice in the thread though is a reflective harness/vest for your dog. An AA maglite could work at 150m in that case haha Wink

Cheers!

Couchmaster
Offline
Last seen: 14 hours 23 min ago
Joined: 05/04/2016 - 17:11
Posts: 390
Location: USA

I’d look at the Nitecore MH20GT but they don’t make them any more. It’s got that great combination of light weight and great throw (hence the GT on the end of the part number). The Nitecore replacement isn’t as good IMO. As an aside, I just bought some of these cheap things, less than $2 each US, for my dog -if I was lost in the woods in the dark it would make your dog visible to me.

PET LIGHT