Is there anything better then XP-G3's in 3535 LED's now?

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Texas_Ace
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Is there anything better then XP-G3's in 3535 LED's now?

First off, been away for awhile and out of the loop. We are also fine here in Texas, had a few pipes freeze but were able to thaw them before damage since we were lucky enough to have a generator. Finding gas for it on the other hand was another story, I was about to start siphoning gas from the cars to run it had the power not come on when it did.

Ok, so with being out of power for 48 hours and all the stores being out of power a well (some were open on generators but very few lights). My EDC got a lot of use this week. (yes, store shelves really are completely bare like you see on the news at this point).

I have come to realize that while my mixed tint SST-20 setup looks great, it is simply not bright enough. So looking for a brighter option.

I will go back to an XG-G3 setup like I had before if that is still the best but figured I see if there are anything better out now. I heard something about an XP-G4 and XP-L3?

If XP-G3’s mixed tint is still the best option, anyone have a lead on finding some good tint versions? My old setup was 5700 90cri / 3000k 90cri and a 4000k 80cri? IIRC and looked surprisingly good for XP-G3’s.

Also open to 219C’s if there are some good options.

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Okay… so you dont know about Samsung LH351D?

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Quadrupel wrote:
Okay… so you dont know about Samsung LH351D?

I am pretty sure I did, Think I did an output test on them a few years ago.

IIRC they were super floody and I don’t think they offered high CRI versions as I completely ignored them after the test?

Have high CRI versions come out?

Quadrupel
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Mostly 2700k and 4000k in 90cri available

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For tint mixing Convoy has LH351D high CRI up to 5700K and down to 2700K

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Are they the ones that are super floody? Also, seems like they may of had issues with triple optics? Or am I thinking of something else?

I actually don’t remember why I ignored them, just that there was a reason I decided they were not for me. I might still have the test LED’s floating around, maybe I should dig them up and see what they look like.

Quadrupel
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Flood same as about XM-L

Texas_Ace
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thefreeman wrote:
For tint mixing Convoy has LH351D high CRI up to 5700K and down to 2700K

That makes them a lot more interesting.

I was looking up my old test on them, the Vf is pretty high compared to the XP lineup. This is part of what I am dealing with now on the SST-20’s. I am just not able to get them to pull enough current to reach high output levels. The XP-G3’s simply had a lower Vf and thus higher output.

If I could get these SST-20’s to pull ~18-20A like the XP-G3’s they would be bright enough I bet.

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Texas_Ace wrote:
Are they the ones that are super floody? Also, seems like they may of had issues with triple optics? Or am I thinking of something else?

I actually don’t remember why I ignored them, just that there was a reason I decided they were not for me. I might still have the test LED’s floating around, maybe I should dig them up and see what they look like.

Big die so yes, quite floody, big lens too so while it fit snugly in a carclo, with multiple TIR the LEDs must me well positioned.

Contactcr measured the tints from a few source Here and I measured some Here , with slicing, once sliced the intensity is nearly as much as SST-20, while still having a bit more output.

thefreeman
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Texas_Ace wrote:
thefreeman wrote:
For tint mixing Convoy has LH351D high CRI up to 5700K and down to 2700K

That makes them a lot more interesting.

I was looking up my old test on them, the Vf is pretty high compared to the XP lineup. This is part of what I am dealing with now on the SST-20’s. I am just not able to get them to pull enough current to reach high output levels. The XP-G3’s simply had a lower Vf and thus higher output.

If I could get these SST-20’s to pull ~18-20A like the XP-G3’s they would be bright enough I bet.

Vf of 90CRI version is very similar to SST-20 : https://budgetlightforum.com/comment/1356989#comment-1356989
https://budgetlightforum.com/node/62195

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thefreeman wrote:
Texas_Ace wrote:
Are they the ones that are super floody? Also, seems like they may of had issues with triple optics? Or am I thinking of something else?

I actually don’t remember why I ignored them, just that there was a reason I decided they were not for me. I might still have the test LED’s floating around, maybe I should dig them up and see what they look like.

Big die so yes, quite floody, big lens too so while it fit snugly in a carclo, with multiple TIR the LEDs must me well positioned.

Contactcr measured the tints from a few source Here and I measured some Here , with slicing, once sliced the intensity is nearly as much as SST-20, while still having a bit more output.

Good test results there. I might order some from Simon and put them in a test light to see what I think.

Anyone know what current they pull in a triple setup?

Texas_Ace
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thefreeman wrote:
Texas_Ace wrote:
thefreeman wrote:
For tint mixing Convoy has LH351D high CRI up to 5700K and down to 2700K

That makes them a lot more interesting.

I was looking up my old test on them, the Vf is pretty high compared to the XP lineup. This is part of what I am dealing with now on the SST-20’s. I am just not able to get them to pull enough current to reach high output levels. The XP-G3’s simply had a lower Vf and thus higher output.

If I could get these SST-20’s to pull ~18-20A like the XP-G3’s they would be bright enough I bet.

Vf of 90CRI version is very similar to SST-20 : https://budgetlightforum.com/comment/1356989#comment-1356989
https://budgetlightforum.com/node/62195

Yeah, thats what I was worried about, I just don’t know that they will be able to pull enough current to reach the ~2500-3000 lumen target.

The SST-20 are capable of that output but due to the high Vf only output around ~1500 lumens.

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Welcome back TA!! Glad to hear you’re safe. I hope all municipal leaders can use the situation in TX as a learning experience. Cold weather disasters can happen anywhere. I too recently returned from an extended BLF layoff. I’ve been looking into single SST-40 based products & DIY builds, since my constant-ON needs are only about ~500 OTF from a 26650 / 21700. Doesn’t seem like our needs are the same though.

Welcome back !!

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kramer5150 wrote:
Welcome back TA!! Glad to hear you’re safe. I hope all municipal leaders can use the situation in TX as a learning experience. Cold weather disasters can happen anywhere. I too recently returned from an extended BLF layoff. I’ve been looking into single SST-40 based products & DIY builds, since my constant-ON needs are only about ~500 OTF from a 26650 / 21700. Doesn’t seem like our needs are the same though.

Welcome back !!

OT Funny, the news complains about lack of plows in Texas but Texans don’t care since we know they are pointless 99% of the time. I can count on one hand the number of times plows would of been necessary in my lifetime. The rest either the roads are not that bad or at worst you stay home for a day or 2 until it melts. Not to mention the shear miles of roads in Texas means we would never be able to plow it all anyways. I was surprised though, in DFW the highways were all plowed real good and fast, and side roads have been passable all along. I didn’t see any accidents in the fair amount of driving I did.

I actually would like a 21700 EDC triple like my convoy S8 but I don’t know of any good ones. I ignored the SST-40 due to lack of high CRI or warm tints last I checked.

For the most part I also use less then 500 lumens, which is why I moved to the SST-20’s for the better tint giving up 1500 lumens.

Over time though I have come to realize just how nice it was and how much I used a ~3000 lumen turbo mode. It was the only way a fairly floody light like this could see reasonable ranges outdoors which greatly increased it’s versatility.

In a black hole of a store without lights it is surprising how much light you can need as well. I found 1500 lumens was just right on the edge of being enough.

Although keep in mind I use the 10511 optic which is fairly floody as I find it to be the most useful overall and tint is fantastic. The only downside is lack of throw but in the past I made up for that with sheer output.

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My personal favorite for good output, great color and high CRI is a shaved 351D.

Shaving them drops the tint a bit and moves them down on the bbl (every one I’ve tried). Lots of data here on BLF.
They shave easily and there are lots of options from 2700 to 5700, all available in high 90+ CRI.
With the dome, they are quite floody, like an XPL HD, maybe slightly more flood.
Without the dome, they are close to a XPL HI.

I have (3) FW3s, each with different LEDs that will make a good comparison.
1) XPL HI LEDs: 2×3D, 1×7A. Turbo = 320 ceiling bounce reading
2) 351D Shaved: 2×5700k, 1×3500k. Turbo = 275 ceiling bounce
3) SST-20: 3×4000k. Turbo = 230 ceiling bounce

So, the 351Ds come right in between SST-20s and XPL HIs in output in a known FET triple.
Throw is similar between all of them.
I like the color of the XPL HI and 351Ds the best (in this mix).

The XPL HIs and SST-20s were stock from early FW3s.
The 351Ds came from Digikey recently.

I’ve done similar tests with P60 hosts and pills. This is a good, cheap way to compare lots of LEDs.
Shaved 351Ds are my favorite for most lights. Great tint, CRI, beam. Good output. XPL HIs get the nod when I want the most output (in a 3535 size).
Not a fan of the SST-20. I have not found a good use for them. Mainly, they all seem green at low current.

I haven’t seen a XP-G3 that I like! How do you get rid of the very uneven tint across the beam. I guess a pebbled TIR or DC Fixed lens, but then it is all flood.
Do the frosted Carclo 3x and 4x TIRs mix them well enough?

Hope this helps!
FB

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Ah, I see your issue. Trying to throw with a floodier through sheer force of lumens. Well as long as you’re sticking with floody, preferably frosted or pebbled TIRs, XP-G3 is alright. XP-G4 is on the horizon but not seen examples yet.

I’m pretty happy with my 5000K 90cri LH351D but I’ve got in in a 45° pebbled TIR in a headlamp. I don’t think they’ll solve your issue.

Hmm, there are some high CRI XHP35 variants. Weird time for it now though during the transition to XHP35.2. Plus it seems you like floody anyway.
If you’re willing, there are high CRI variants of 50.2 and 70.2. Or the originals (non -.2) with more donut hole and less tint-shift.

Anyway, it’s been nice to see you around here again lately. Good luck chasing the EDC grail Wink

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Yes, the only way I like the XP-G3’s are with the 10511 optic, the tint mixes very well and they actually look quite nice. Just a slight tint shift on the very edge IIRC but not enough to bother my very picky standards in most situations.

The 10511 optic is floody but I would consider it the ideal combo of flood and throw if you have the lumens to force it to longer ranges. At the sub ~20 feet range most EDC lights are used in, it is perfect. For longer range work you do need more lumens to light it up but it gives nice even light that is very useful. I have been very happy with the optic since I swapped to it outside of not enough lumens since going to SST-20’s.

I think I will order some 351D’s but keep looking for other options. I am real hesitant to shave a dome for my own use, I have yet to see a shaved LED I could stomach but this could be the exception based on the spectrum tests.

Worst case I can go with XP-G3’s again, just have to find a source with good tints. The 5700/3000/4000 combo I ran last time was pretty nice.

Also might try some 219C’s if I can find some good ones. Tint is obviously better and if I dropped to 80 cri I should get similar output.

I am guessing that the XP-G4 rumors I heard about are just rumors?

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Scallywag wrote:
Ah, I see your issue. Trying to throw with a floodier through sheer force of lumens. Well as long as you’re sticking with floody, preferably frosted or pebbled TIRs, XP-G3 is alright. XP-G4 is on the horizon but not seen examples yet.

I’m pretty happy with my 5000K 90cri LH351D but I’ve got in in a 45° pebbled TIR in a headlamp. I don’t think they’ll solve your issue.

Hmm, there are some high CRI XHP35 variants. Weird time for it now though during the transition to XHP35.2. Plus it seems you like floody anyway.
If you’re willing, there are high CRI variants of 50.2 and 70.2. Or the originals (non -.2) with more donut hole and less tint-shift.

Anyway, it’s been nice to see you around here again lately. Good luck chasing the EDC grail Wink

Hmm, forgot about the 50.2 3v option. Last I checked there were not any high cri versions of the 3V models. Has that changed? Or any other 3V multi-die LED’s on the market?

I would actually be real interested in a 50.2 high cri 3v, or at least a 3D tint. I have an optic that I think would work great with it.

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I like the 10511 also.

What don’t you like about shaved domes?
Other than a small output loss, I only see positives with the 351Ds. Don’t shave too close. I like to leave ~1mm of dome.
I agree that some LEDs have too many negatives with a shave.

You do have me interested in trying tint mixing XP-G3s with a frosted TIR. What is your favorite mix to get ~4500k?

FB

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If you’re currently using a 10511 w/XP-G3, then LH351D – especially in an unfrosted optic – should really be an improvement. 90CRI versions likely won’t get you any bump in output, but the temp and CRI options are much better.

I’ve heard some bins of the 80CRI versions dont have good tint but they may be an option worth trying out for even more output.

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Nearly everything is better, than XP-G3, if we also count useful beam.

LH351D is super floody, but there is also LH351C and LH351B, which are correspondingly less powerful and have smaller LES. I think, LH351C could be comparable to XP-G2, and it has a similar CCT range in 90 CRI as the LH351D. Somehow, while many flashlight manufacturer started to use LH351D, no one of them seem to be picking up LH351C.

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FBsLights wrote:
I like the 10511 also.

What don’t you like about shaved domes?
Other than a small output loss, I only see positives with the 351Ds. Don’t shave too close. I like to leave ~1mm of dome.
I agree that some LEDs have too many negatives with a shave.

You do have me interested in trying tint mixing XP-G3s with a frosted TIR. What is your favorite mix to get ~4500k?

FB

The tint shift just generally makes me want to vomit with shaved domes, even the ones that most people say are fine trigger me lol. The loss in output compounds the issue.

Yes, 4500k is my ideal tint if I can manage it. Tint mixing is something I am a big fan of, I find tint mixed LED’s just generally look better and “fuller”. They also generally have a lower duv then a single tint setup.

Far as what tints to use to get that, whatever I can get basically. I do try to use as far away as possible tints as they seem to give the best results. Such as 2700k/5700k/5000k or 2700k/6500k/4000k.

Mostly it depends on what I can get my hands on. Also got to factor in the bins of the LED’s, not uncomman to have to use a 70cri 5700k with a higher bin, in which case I will use lower tint in the others to make up for it.

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BurningPlayd0h wrote:
If you’re currently using a 10511 w/XP-G3, then LH351D – especially in an unfrosted optic – should really be an improvement. 90CRI versions likely won’t get you any bump in output, but the temp and CRI options are much better.

I’ve heard some bins of the 80CRI versions dont have good tint but they may be an option worth trying out for even more output.

Yeah, I am willing to step down to 80cri to get higher output as long as the tint is good. Tint mixing while technically it doesn’t increase CRI it sure does trick the human eye into thinking it does in most cases.

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adam7027 wrote:
Nearly everything is better, than XP-G3, if we also count useful beam.

LH351D is super floody, but there is also LH351C and LH351B, which are correspondingly less powerful and have smaller LES. I think, LH351C could be comparable to XP-G2, and it has a similar CCT range in 90 CRI as the LH351D. Somehow, while many flashlight manufacturer started to use LH351D, no one of them seem to be picking up LH351C.

Just did a quick search on the 351C and maukka seems to show it having a very positive duv? That is a big turn off for me, I am super sensitive to the puke green hue.

Actually looked up maukkas test on the 351D and saw it also has a pretty positive duv, this might of been why I rejected it after testing it.

Have the tint options improved since those tests?

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Shaving the 351D does not cause tint shift problems to my eyes.
Tint moves lower in temp and duv. Spill to spot tint shift is actually less.

4000k and 5000k are from AEDe group buy (from awhile back) all appear to have -DUV after shaving.
I was lucky to buy several of each in that group buy.

351Ds from Digikey and KaiDomain required shaving to get them close to bbl, and tint mixing to get below.
The 2×5700k + 1×3500k in my FW3 mix to a very slight pink. A little cooler than the SST-20 4000k.
The SST-20 is pinker on turbo, much much greener on lower modes than the tint mixed 351D.
I haven’t sampled any from Convoy.

A quick look at what is available in XP-G3…
- In hi CRI, similar output to 351D, but uneven tint problem flip chips are known for. Not an issue in frosted optics (as you know).
- In low CRI, similar output to XPL HI, but again, uneven tint. I find the tint shift from spill to corona to spot of an XPL HI to be my limit.

Where might I find high CRI XP-G3 in >4000k?

FB

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Good info, not sure where to get the XP-G3’s now days. Last time I bought them was back in ~2016. I never bothered ordering more as I figured something better would be around by now lol.

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Do you know of this CREE comparison tool:
http://pct.cree.com/dt/index.html

I find it handy for comparing outputs and Vf of LEDs you know (XPL HI, for example) to LEDs you are interested in (XP-G3 in this case).

Good luck!

FB

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As far as I know, the XP-G3’s have not been getting much appreciation in flashlights due to green tint and tint shift across the beam. The same for XP-L2’s.

Maukka tested both the XP-G3 and the LH351D in a triple emitter light here. I think you should take a look:
https://budgetlightforum.com/node/60934

I think the LH351D is likely your best option at this time if you want a little more overall light than SST-20’s, but it is floodier.

For maximum output, of course, you have to go for the low CRI version, but I’m not sure how the tint is on those.

Boaz has small quantities of minus green filters on offer in the want to sell thread if you want to improve overall tint. There is a slight output loss as a result.

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Sounds like TexasAce wants max output. CRI is not as important for him.

I think your best bet is a light with multiple XPL Hi. Throws much further than LH351d with genarally brighter output. Still floods enough for close in use.

XPL Hi also blows the socks off SST-20. It is much brighter.

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Texas_Ace wrote:

The tint shift just generally makes me want to vomit with shaved domes, even the ones that most people say are fine trigger me lol. The loss in output compounds the issue.

Yes, 4500k is my ideal tint if I can manage it. Tint mixing is something I am a big fan of, I find tint mixed LED’s just generally look better and “fuller”. They also generally have a lower duv then a single tint setup.

Far as what tints to use to get that, whatever I can get basically. I do try to use as far away as possible tints as they seem to give the best results. Such as 2700k/5700k/5000k or 2700k/6500k/4000k.

Mostly it depends on what I can get my hands on. Also got to factor in the bins of the LED’s, not uncomman to have to use a 70cri 5700k with a higher bin, in which case I will use lower tint in the others to make up for it.

There is no discernible tint shift with sliced LH351D. 4500K won’t be possible though because that’s already close to where 5700K is once sliced :

Texas_Ace wrote:

Yeah, I am willing to step down to 80cri to get higher output as long as the tint is good. Tint mixing while technically it doesn’t increase CRI it sure does trick the human eye into thinking it does in most cases.

Mixing increases color saturation a bit, slicing also does it slightly.

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So it seems that there have not been much advancement in LED’s over the last 2 years when you boil it down is what I am getting. On one hand that makes it easier since I have experience with most of the LED’s from back there. On the other hand a bit disappointing lol.

LH351D’s are worth considering, just worried that with the extra flood they will not net me the increase in output/throw I am looking for over the SST-20.

I am assuming that good tint 3v XHP50.2’s are not a thing still as well?

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