CSLNM1.TG in GT Micro- overdriving/damaging with 10A 14500?

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TIFisher
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CSLNM1.TG in GT Micro- overdriving/damaging with 10A 14500?

…specifically Vapcell H10. New cell’s. When I tried one out the other night, I noticed a fairly significant tint change upon turbo activation, a very cold bluish shift. Insanely bright. Should I be concerned about cooking the LED with this battery? Not understanding all the nuances of Texas Avenger FET driver, I don’t want to push it. The more reading I do, it seems the CSLNM1 is sensitive to being overdriven.

Lightbringer
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Especially in a limited-capacity light like the ‘micro, go for capacity, not current. Doubt you’d even visually notice the difference between 800lm and 1000lm, even side-by-side.

And as you noticed, some LEDs when pushed harder just generate more light than heat. Even less light, sometimes, when you push it to the falling side of the parabola.

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Lightbringer
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Oh yeh, I had a coupla Vapcells, the nice high-drain ones (purple, blue, forgot…), and didn’t notice any difference between them and the cheepcheepcheep little cheeken EBL 14500s.

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TIFisher
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Lightbringer wrote:
Especially in a limited-capacity light like the ‘micro, go for capacity, not current. Doubt you’d even visually notice the difference between 800lm and 1000lm, even side-by-side.

And as you noticed, some LEDs when pushed harder just generate more light than heat. Even less light, sometimes, when you push it to the falling side of the parabola.

Good points, thank you. My limited experience and knowledge make it difficult to strike the balance between output and run time when searching for the best suited battery. On one hand, I want to wring all the lumens possible out of the light, but conversely don’t want a spent battery in 20 minutes, or to destroy the emitter. The tint was in a word, “angry”. Kinda startled me. She got plenty warm, too.

Lightbringer
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That’s the issue. It’s a 14500, not an 18650, so has (ballpark) 900mAH or so capacity. So if it pulls 3A on max, that’s 0.9AH/3A or 0.3H runtime, so yeah, ~20min from right out of the charger to completely spent.

Not to bang on the same story over and over, but around Christmas when our block had a blackout (tree keeled over in high winds taking out the powerlines), going outside with the ‘micro to put light right where I wanted it to go, snooping around the branches, looking at the nice sparking box attached to the pole, etc., just a few minutes runtime on momentary here and there ran it down from probably 4.1V down to 3.4V or so, about… 20%-30% capacity left? So yeah, those minutes add up fast.

But it did exactly what it was supposed to do, throw light small and far, and not flood the whole area with light. (Had my SC31pro for that.)

For lots of runtime with a pencil-beam, my EC4GT wouldda been perfect, but the ‘micro is so much smaller…

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MascaratumB
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So: a Texas Avenger FET driver (direct driver?) + Osram CSLNM1.TG (max driven 4.5 Amps) + Vapcell H10 (10A) = blueish for sure!

If that driver “sucks” what it wants from that battery (and it surely can deliver high Amps), and that led shouldn’t be driven at more than 4.5 Amps, the result will be blueish for sure.

I’d advise to buy the Vacpell Gold (1000mAh) batteries, that will not deliver that much Amps to the driver and Led. This battery or any other not rated for “high drain” will act as a resistance and will avoid your led getting blue.

Ask me: how you know that?
Because I used a Samsung LH351D with such cell in a Lumintop Tool AA (with a FET driver) and it turned blue and got burnt!

TheAuditor
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I have a couple of Shockli cells that allegedly produce 12A that I bought on a whim. I don’t have anything that I can use them in! Any suggestions for a 14500 flashlight that could handle 10a would be appreciated.

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MascaratumB
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TheAuditor wrote:
I have a couple of Shockli cells that allegedly produce 12A that I bought on a whim. I don’t have anything that I can use them in! Any suggestions for a 14500 flashlight that could handle 10a would be appreciated.

Are those the orange cells, also named H10?
If so, they won’t do any better to your light, as they supposedly deliver the same or more than the Vapcell H10.
They are great, for any flashlight that doesn’t use that kind of combination (FET Driver + that Orsam led, or eventually other Osram or Nichia).

If you want to mod a flashlight with a FET driver and another Led (ex: XP-L HI, XP-L HD, Luxeon leds, eventually Samsung leds if sitting on a copper DTP MCPC, or others) you will be able to use them without issue.

You can also use them in other flashlight that do not use FET drivers, and will not pull such an high amount of Amps from the cell.
Almost any 14500 flashlight will do, as they pull, at most 3A, or even less. So, the battery will not deliver that much “power” and it will hold a longer time (if compared to a light using FET driver).

TIFisher
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MascaratumB wrote:
So: a Texas Avenger FET driver (direct driver?) + Osram CSLNM1.TG (max driven 4.5 Amps) + Vapcell H10 (10A) = blueish for sure!

If that driver “sucks” what it wants from that battery (and it surely can deliver high Amps), and that led shouldn’t be driven at more than 4.5 Amps, the result will be blueish for sure.

I’d advise to buy the Vacpell Gold (1000mAh) batteries, that will not deliver that much Amps to the driver and Led. This battery or any other not rated for “high drain” will act as a resistance and will avoid your led getting blue.

Ask me: how you know that?
Because I used a Samsung LH351D with such cell in a Lumintop Tool AA (with a FET driver) and it turned blue and got burnt!

That’s what I was afraid of….thanks for sharing your experience. I have some Keeppower 1000 mAh 4A protected cells coming. Hopefully they fit. By the time I get it figured out, I’ll likely have more money tied up in batteries than I paid for the light itself.
Fortunately I don’t see any discoloration of the emitter itself, so hopefully have headed off frying it with continued use of the 10A cells. Again, can’t thank you folks enough for the sage advice.

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TIFisher wrote:
That’s what I was afraid of….thanks for sharing your experience. I have some Keeppower 1000 mAh 4A protected cells coming. Hopefully they fit. By the time I get it figured out, I’ll likely have more money tied up in batteries than I paid for the light itself.

Or look at the bright side: you’ll have an excuse to buy more 14500-eating lights.

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MascaratumB
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TheAuditor wrote:
I have a couple of Shockli cells that allegedly produce 12A that I bought on a whim. I don’t have anything that I can use them in! Any suggestions for a 14500 flashlight that could handle 10a would be appreciated.

I kept thinking about your question and…I guess I remembered 2 lights that can do so:
Astrolux BLF X5: FET Driver, XP-L HI
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000287667800.html

Mateminco E01CU: FET Driver, XP-L HD
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001831493312.html

Wink

TheAuditor
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MascaratumB wrote:
TheAuditor wrote:
I have a couple of Shockli cells that allegedly produce 12A that I bought on a whim. I don’t have anything that I can use them in! Any suggestions for a 14500 flashlight that could handle 10a would be appreciated.

I kept thinking about your question and…I guess I remembered 2 lights that can do so:
Astrolux BLF X5: FET Driver, XP-L HI
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000287667800.html

Mateminco E01CU: FET Driver, XP-L HD
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001831493312.html

Wink

Interesting. Thank you.

Bonum commune communitatis.

Yarp.

TheAuditor
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TheAuditor wrote:
MascaratumB wrote:
TheAuditor wrote:
I have a couple of Shockli cells that allegedly produce 12A that I bought on a whim. I don’t have anything that I can use them in! Any suggestions for a 14500 flashlight that could handle 10a would be appreciated.

I kept thinking about your question and…I guess I remembered 2 lights that can do so:
Astrolux BLF X5: FET Driver, XP-L HI
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000287667800.html

Mateminco E01CU: FET Driver, XP-L HD
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001831493312.html

Wink

Interesting. Thank you.

So I have a BLF X5 in copper and it runs very well with the Shockli orange cell. My Wuben E05 and my Skilhunt M150 also work fine, no overheating, no blue LED. I also tried it with an Olight S1A and Nitecore SRT3 but they don’t work. Possibly a contact issue.

Bonum commune communitatis.

Yarp.

jon_slider
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the main issue is that the GT Micro specifically calls for a protected LiIon (protected cells are inherently NOT High Drain).

Lumintop says:
A protected button top is highly recommended

This means, no High Drain Unprotected cells, which is what caused the LED to turn blue.

Also, runtime will double if output is reduced to half.

It is not safe to use Turbo for long periods, or ways that cause the light to get hot.

Unheard
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Does the reflector allow a CULPM1? That would be a nice mod and lets you use your high drain battery.

Smile, you cannot kill them all.

TIFisher
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jon_slider wrote:
the main issue is that the GT Micro specifically calls for a protected LiIon (protected cells are inherently NOT High Drain).

Lumintop says:
A protected button top is highly recommended

Aaahhhh….the old “don’t forget to read the fine print” cliché. TBH, I never paid much attention to the marketing description. Now that you prompted me to look, that’s the only place I can find that statement. It’s not in the spec breakdown or in the manual. Just states to use “quality” cells from Samsung, Panasonic, etc., no mention of protected BT. I do see mention of “instant access to a 2.5A TURBO mode” in the manual. Ooops.

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TIFisher wrote:
Aaahhhh….the old “don’t forget to read the fine print” cliché.

I respect that you are taking the time to post and learn more.

A lot of people chase high lumens, and think the way to get there is to use UNprotected High Drain Cells. But they dont take the time to learn whether the light is rated for UNprotected High Drain.

Glad it was a cheap $eminar Smile

Battery selection, without awareness of the importance of Low Voltage Protection, is one of the most common user errors. They choose an UNprotected cell, to use in a light that has No built in LVP.

That invites several problems, including overheating and overdischarging.

Lightbringer
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Yeh, and part of “chasing high lumens” is that any differences are likely only seen on instruments, not visually. 800 vs 1000 is barely perceptible in an A/B test, and practically zero difference one after another.

That’s why I’m happy with my cheap EBLs which work great in it. Didn’t notice (visually) any difference between them and the Vapcells I got.

And the nice thing about those EBLs is that I can keep a bunch charged and ready to go as spares, on a budget.

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Lightbringer wrote:
800 vs 1000 is barely perceptible

I agree.

going from 800 to 1000 lumens, a 25% increase, is not a visually significant increase,
but it cuts battery life by 25%

as a rule of thumb, it takes 50% more lumens, to create a small visual increase.
but it cuts runtime by 50%

moral of the story
Dialing down from maximum is a healthy habit;
more runtime, less draining Beer