Strong clean pinspot beam

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robart
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Strong clean pinspot beam

Hello,

I am building a stronger LED pinspot then available, but also cheaper! At this moment im really struggling with the amount of lenses available and which one to choose. I use a 10W 900lm LED and at this moment i opened up a regular pinspot and tried to place a stronger LED in there but it’s not creating a clean beam instead there is a lot of wash light around the beam.

I did some some research and found out that i could use an Aspheric lens or Aspheric plano convex lens? But is just the light source and 1 lens enough or do i need to use 2 lenses in the pinspot? Tips would be really welcome! Smile

An example of a beam im looking for but stronger…

Edited by: robart on 03/23/2021 - 17:08
ChibiM
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Welcome to BLF Robart.

There's plenty of smart people here that can help you into the right direction. 

I would start by doing some research around LEDs, especially the Osram LEDs, and then get into reflectors, convex lenses and such. 

Good luck with your project.

Enderman
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Aspheric lens is what you want, yes.
One side should be plano, which the LED is behind.
It is a tradeoff between lumens and beam tightness.
The tighter the beam, the less lumens the lens will collect (which you can compensate for by using a larger diameter)
The longer the focal length, the tighter the beam, and the less lumens.

You can use this to estimate the beam tightness, lumen output, and intensity: https://www.desmos.com/calculator/e71373w05f
If you use a wavien collar you can double the lumens and intensity but it’s very hard to find/make one.

The LED you should use is the Osram CULNM1.TG, it has the highest intensity (brightness per area) so its the best for creating a bright, tight beam.

robart
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Amazing, thanks for the information, i will look into it! Hope i can give some updates on the project in here Smile

Enderman
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robart wrote:
Amazing, thanks for the information, i will look into it! Hope i can give some updates on the project in here Smile

Yeah no prob Thumbs Up
Also keep in mind that you’ll end up with a square spot because LEDs are square.
If you want it to make a round spot you will have to do something like this: https://budgetlightforum.com/node/75933
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Enderman wrote:
Aspheric lens is what you want, yes.
One side should be plano, which the LED is behind.
It is a tradeoff between lumens and beam tightness.
The tighter the beam, the less lumens the lens will collect (which you can compensate for by using a larger diameter)
The longer the focal length, the tighter the beam, and the less lumens.

You can use this to estimate the beam tightness, lumen output, and intensity: https://www.desmos.com/calculator/e71373w05f
If you use a wavien collar you can double the lumens and intensity but it’s very hard to find/make one.

The LED you should use is the Osram CULNM1.TG, it has the highest intensity (brightness per area) so its the best for creating a bright, tight beam.


This, this is why I love BLF. Ask a technical question and you get a straight forward no nonsense clear answer. Good job Enderman!
Enderman
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Pilotboy wrote:

This, this is why I love BLF. Ask a technical question and you get a straight forward no nonsense clear answer. Good job Enderman!

Haha thanks Smile
robart
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@Enderman: I looked around but it’s impossible to buy the LED u suggested, it’s out of order everywhere…. Do you know a good alternative LED?

*Im looking into the Aspheric Lenses and they all have a beam angle. For instance 70 degree, since i want a narrow beam this degree level sounds pretty wide for me. I don’t know anything about it so do i need to look for another lens on top of the Aspheric Lens to make the beam angle right or….?

Yokiamy
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https://nl.aliexpress.com/item/4001041252314.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0....

Reach out to the yingding store, they will possibly have a few on stock if you ask them.
When not, please let me know, i might have one spare

robart
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@Yokiamy: Thank you, that’s very nice of you! Sadly i need more of them since im building like 2-4 strong spinspots for my light installation.

Yokiamy
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Actually, i had much more succes using the CSLNM1 with my lights, somehow i had lots of trouble with the 4040 die size variant. That’s why i’d gave up on them, and just continued with the 3030 size.
The disappointing results might also be caused by the Bin, the yingding store did not give any clue on what bin they supplied

Enderman
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robart wrote:
@Enderman: I looked around but it’s impossible to buy the LED u suggested, it’s out of order everywhere…. Do you know a good alternative LED?

*Im looking into the Aspheric Lenses and they all have a beam angle. For instance 70 degree, since i want a narrow beam this degree level sounds pretty wide for me. I don’t know anything about it so do i need to look for another lens on top of the Aspheric Lens to make the beam angle right or….?


The only place to get them pre-mounted is here:
https://led4power.com/product/osram-kw-culnm1-tg-1mm2-die-20mm-4040-dtp-...
https://led4power.com/product/osram-kw-culnm1-tg-1mm2-die-16mm-4040-dtp-...
Currently both are out of stock but he should be getting more soon.
The next best is the CSLNM1, not far behind, maybe like 5-10% worse
https://led4power.com/product/osram-kw-cslnm1-tg-1mm2-die-on-20mm-3030-d...

Yokiamy wrote:
https://nl.aliexpress.com/item/4001041252314.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0....

Reach out to the yingding store, they will possibly have a few on stock if you ask them.
When not, please let me know, i might have one spare


Those are fakes, the real Osram ones don’t have any gray rectangle on them.
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Enderman wrote:

Those are fakes, the real Osram ones don’t have any gray rectangle on them.

That might explain the poor performance.

robart
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I did some tests and some research and i might think that the Osram led is not strong enough for the effect im looking for, but i need some opinions. I have an example of the beam i am looking for, i think pinspot was not the right terminology. It’s more like a moving head beam im looking for, a strong straight beam of light.

I found out that some people are using Luminus CFT-90W, but i don’t know if that’s a good one…? Are there other options?

(video of a beam i like and want to create: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5DvPYB6TZ4&t=9s&ab_channel=COLORNITE)

*it’s not possible to buy a moving head, it would be easy but for my project i can’t use to much weight…

Yokiamy
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You need an aspheric lens to create a perfect straight beam.
Something as a Jaxman Z1 or Cometa, or convoy Z1

Enderman
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robart wrote:
I did some tests and some research and i might think that the Osram led is not strong enough for the effect im looking for, but i need some opinions. I have an example of the beam i am looking for, i think pinspot was not the right terminology. It’s more like a moving head beam im looking for, a strong straight beam of light.

I found out that some people are using Luminus CFT-90W, but i don’t know if that’s a good one…? Are there other options?

(video of a beam i like and want to create: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5DvPYB6TZ4&t=9s&ab_channel=COLORNITE)

*it’s not possible to buy a moving head, it would be easy but for my project i can’t use to much weight…


A SBT90.2 is essentially the same performance of the CFT-90 but uses half the current.
https://intl-outdoor.com/led/luminus-sbt90-2-led-on-noctigon-mcpcb.html
It outputs significantly more lumens than the Osram LED but has lower intensity.
So it will make a brighter beam but won’t be as tight.
If you use a big enough lens then I’m sure it won’t be an issue.
What’s the biggest diameter lens you are willing to use?
robart
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Thank you for the fast response. It’s so helpfull! Im looking at aliexpress/alibaba for Aspheric Lenses, maximum size would be 100mm. Is this shape of the lens correct? (https://ibb.co/1K91v2Z)

Enderman
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robart wrote:
Thank you for the fast response. It’s so helpfull! Im looking at aliexpress/alibaba for Aspheric Lenses, maximum size would be 100mm. Is this shape of the lens correct? (https://ibb.co/1K91v2Z)

No, those are far too short focus.
It’s hard to find a good aspheric lens, all those on aliexpress and whatever are too cheap to properly collimate the light.
I got my two aspheric lenses from Optolife, which you can read about in this thread:
https://budgetlightforum.com/node/55040

You’ll have to contact them to see if they have any in stock.

Even the optolife lenses don’t have perfect aspheres, if you want something that is higher quality you need to pay a lot more for something like this https://www.edmundoptics.com/p/100mm-dia-033-numerical-aperture-uncoated...