how efficient is a high lumen flash light such as an MS18 as a self defence tool?

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shailanp
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how efficient is a high lumen flash light such as an MS18 as a self defence tool?

As the topic, is an MS18 blinding enough to deter an attacker and can you look straight into the source of the beam when it’s running at 20,000, 60,000, 100,000 lumens?

gravelmonkey
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This topic frequently comes up with regards to lights; it was one of the very repetative topics which drove me away from the other forum.

There are too many variables to give an accurate answer, for starters, it depends how determined the attack is…

I’ll repeat the usual answer people get with these threads:

Bet a friend £/$/€/20 that you can ‘tag’ them on the shoulder and give them the light. Reverse the roles and re-try the bet.

shailanp
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gravelmonkey wrote:
This topic frequently comes up with regards to lights; it was one of the very repetative topics which drove me away from the other forum.

There are too many variables to give an accurate answer, for starters, it depends how determined the attack is…

I’ll repeat the usual answer people get with these threads:

Bet a friend £/$/€/20 that you can ‘tag’ them on the shoulder and give them the light. Reverse the roles and re-try the bet.

I’m not following maybe you or someone can translate that in layman terms for me, also i was wondering about the blinding factor of the light i.e if its possible to look at the beam directly?

sp5it
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It’s useless. More effective is Maglite 6D

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shailanp
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sp5it wrote:
It’s useless. More effective is Maglite 6D

it seems the opening question may have been misunderstood, im referring to the blinding effect of the light not using the light as a blunt weapon

SammysHP
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If it’s big and heavy enough, you can beat someone with it. For blinding it’s useless.

Firelight2
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shailanp wrote:
sp5it wrote:
It’s useless. More effective is Maglite 6D

it seems the opening question may have been misunderstood, im referring to the blinding effect of the light not using the light as a blunt weapon

I think the general conclusion is flashlights are useless as blinding weapons. No matter how powerful the light is, they aren’t effective at blinding a determined attacker for more than a second or so.

Xylnas
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MS18 at 100k Lumen turbo is throwing out an insane amount of light. Anyone looking directly into the beam will certainly be blinded initially.

I would say it’s a hefty piece of kit to be trying to quickly turn on someone and get onto turbo to try and blind them, especially if they are a determined attacker. If you are wanting a torch to have a brief blinding affect on someone I would say anything from 5k lumens upwards being ‘turbo’d’ at someone’s face (depending on range) would blind them initially, might buy you a few seconds.

Lumen count is not the only consideration, a light with a high candela aimed at someone is going to be completely blinding. I would not want to be on the other end of the beam of a Weltool W4 shone directly at my face that’s for sure.

If someone is determined to attack you for some reason, no amount of light shone in their direction is going to help as much as running/defensive manoeuvring. You might scare off an opportunistic attacker quickly turboing a light in their direction or just cause them to come at you even faster. All going to depend on the circumstance.

BurningPlayd0h
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Human eyes are extremely good at adjusting to different light levels – it’s why anyone with decent eyesight and health can go from walking around in 100,000 lux sunlight, and then later on night lit only by a sliver of the moon and still able to see to a fair degree.

Unheard
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You know how it goes. The aggressor creeps up from behind, then stops and shouts: “Hey, I’m going to attack you now.” You turn around, pull your light out of the holster … “just a second please, Mr. aggressor” … and point your light towards him in full turbo. Only seconds later he’s ash. You know, villains always make some small talk, talk about their plans and so on. Plenty time.

Smile, you cannot kill them all.

Firelight2
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I recall reading one anecdote on CPF years ago where someone successfully used a flashlight to defend himself.

He was walking along at night when he saw a group of young men approach him looking to perhaps mug him.

He pulled out his flashlight and shined it at them while asking “How can I help you boys?”

The would-be muggers instantly jumped to the (incorrect) conclusion he was a cop. They said “no problem” and abruptly changed changed course to get out of his way.

NotSoBright
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I’m no expert, but I think the fast paced strobes are more useful to disorientate someone than just a bunch of lumens trying to blind someone.

BurningPlayd0h
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Unheard wrote:
You know how it goes. The aggressor creeps up from behind, then stops and shouts: “Hey, I’m going to attack you now.” You turn around, pull your light out of the holster … “just a second please, Mr. aggressor” … and point your light towards him in full turbo. Only seconds later he’s ash. You know, villains always make some small talk, talk about their plans and so on. Plenty time.

If they’re teeth look like this that might actually happen…

Unheard
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BurningPlayd0h wrote:
Unheard wrote:
You know how it goes. The aggressor creeps up from behind, then stops and shouts: “Hey, I’m going to attack you now.” You turn around, pull your light out of the holster … “just a second please, Mr. aggressor” … and point your light towards him in full turbo. Only seconds later he’s ash. You know, villains always make some small talk, talk about their plans and so on. Plenty time.

If they’re teeth look like this that might actually happen…

!{width:40%}https://cdn.pastemagazine.com/www/articles/53-Top-100-Vampire-Films-Vamp...!


I’d ask for an autograph first.

Then burn him down. The autograph will be worth a fortune.

Smile, you cannot kill them all.

turkeydance
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how “efficient”?
not very much.
in my opinion.

here is one positive opinion:

raccoon city
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I don't think the light from a flashlight is very useful for defending yourself.

Depending on what is legal where you live, you're better off with pepper spray, a knife, or a gun.

I don't like the idea of carrying a gun, so I go with pepper spray and a pocket knife.

My pepper spray has tear gas and ultra violet ink in it, and that would be my first line of defense if running away is not possible.

chadvone
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If the aggressor happens to be on his way to the toilet in the middle of the night 20,000 lumens
should be enough to keep him from falling back to sleep after the attack

Scallywag
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There are statistics you can look up. If it’s a random attacker your best bet is to run, unless you are carrying a firearm.

The only use for a flashlight in such a scenario is a weapon-light.

I agree, bet your friend you can tag them in the shoulder and hand them the light. See if it defends effectively.

Also, I’ve always said that the light source just tells you where to aim…

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richbuff
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Efficient self defense tools were not designed for illumination, therefore they are extremely inefficient as illumination tools.

Efficient illumination tools were not designed for self defense, therefore they are extremely inefficient as self defense tools.

 

Form and function. One looks like an Underwood loaded G29, and the other looks like a MS18. I have both. I just don't confuse their form, therefore I do not confuse their function.

 

 

https://budgetlightforum.com/comment/1630856#comment-1630856

 

https://budgetlightforum.com/comment/1561269#comment-1561269

Because I like big lights, my flashlightical views lean heavily toward both the extreme bright and the extreme heft.

BurningPlayd0h
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richbuff wrote:

Efficient self defense tools were not designed for illumination, therefore they are extremely inefficient as illumination tools.


Efficient illumination tools were not designed for self defense, therefore they are extremely inefficient as self defense tools.


 


Form and function. One looks like an Underwood loaded G29, and the other looks like a MS18. I have both. I just don’t confuse their form, therefore I do not confuse their function.


 


 


https://budgetlightforum.com/comment/1630856#comment-1630856


 


https://budgetlightforum.com/comment/1561269#comment-1561269

That’s why I carry one of these with me every day.

Unheard
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BurningPlayd0h wrote:

That’s why I carry one of these with me every day.
!{width:50%}https://media.giphy.com/media/ydCYqzBeUpRqE/giphy.gif!


Nice warm CCT Thumbs Up

Smile, you cannot kill them all.

Lightbringer
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They mostly come out at night…mostly.

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CrashOne
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It’s a pretty big flashlight, so you might be able to swing it against your attacker. That’s the only advantage in a self defense situation.

Robin Dobbie
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If you think you’re looking to use photons, alone, as a defense, a more efficient source is one that’s about a 10th the size, weight, and cost of the aforementioned light. What you’re looking for is a camera strobe. 4AAs and about 1/200th of a second of I dunno, about 2,500,000 lumens. Given that it takes several seconds to charge, it had better be ready. And it probably won’t be.

dave1010
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If anyone wants to provide me with a MS18 then I’ll happily be a test subject.

This was asked on Reddit too.

Here’s what I replied:

Let’s do some maths!

The MS18 is rated at 1350m throw. That means a surface 1350m away has 0.25 lux cast on it. That’s as bright as things lit up by a full moon. Once eyes get used to this then it’s easily enough for a night hike. Of you looked at an MS18 from that distance then it would look as bright as a full moon.

If you half the distance then there’s 4 times as much light hitting a surface.

  • At 40 meters there’s about 250 lux. That’s about the same as room lighting. Shine a MS18 at a room across the street and your neighbors will think they left a light on. If they looked at your flashlight then it’d be like looking at a light bulb in the same room.
  • At 20 meters there’s about 1000 lux. That’s like an overcast day. Looking up at the sky where the sun is can start to get uncomfortable.
  • At 5 meters there’s about 20,000 lux. That’s the same as a shadow on a bright sunny day.
  • At 2m there about 100,000 lux that’s like a bright summer day. So that would be as bright as looking directly at the sun (don’t do that). The sun is mostly dangerous due to UV though, so while the MS18 would look bright, it still wouldn’t hurt.

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pennzy
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It might buy you a few seconds.

kramer5150
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Light by itself is minimally effective at best, since attackers always approach from behind. You won’t even see it coming. Only way an attacker presents himself to his victim is if they’re stoned, drunk, determined or raging pissed. Under such mental conditions light (by itself) once again is not stopping them.

IMHO light is more of a preventive tool to evade and avoid a situation. Identify threatening situations, and avoid before they are close enough to become threatening.

pennzy
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Best left to identifying your target.

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You need high candela to blind someone, at least 100,000 candela is minimum. I was blasted in the face with a catapult v6 on turbo with 140,000 candela and I was completely blinded for 10 seconds and for minutes after my vision was impared. Use something like a lep like the weltool w4 that has 1.8 million candela. It will blind someone for a long time for sure and probably cause your attacker permanent vision damage.

Robin Dobbie
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MS 18 useless
MS 12 useless
MS 13 – dozens of linked deaths. Crazy how nature do dat.

Can’t remember who made that joke first. Can’t have been me.

LOG20
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My take is that light is a force multiplier but has some application as a defensive tool in the right situations.

As someone who has experience boxing, a trained individual yielding a high powered flashlight against an opponent WILL have the upper hand in exchanging as they will not see the punches coming. An untrained individual is probably riding their luck although the sudden burst of light on night adapted eyes will likely buy you a few seconds to swing or run.

Other than that, the most critical survival skill is situational awareness. Be aware of your surroundings and you will likely (but not completely) avoid most dangerous situations.

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