WildTrail WT90 - SBT90.2 1800m+ throw 90mm 3x 21700 With Texas_Ace driver

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Artiet59
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Wow, Tom, these readings are very exciting and just further my hopefulness for this light. I really like to see the lumens staying so stable over the first 5 minutes, and also with the weight coming in at under 800 grams. I’ve been playing with my new mf02sv2 this week, so this wt90 will be a blast! Also, Narsil will be nice as the mf02sv2 likes to step down a little, nothing to complain about, but the Narsil in the wt90 is, besides lumen longevity and THROW obviously, one of the things I’m looking forward to the most. Speaking of throw, 950kcd, hell ya! Also that is pretty damn close to what you estimated a week ago iirc Thumbs Up

Tom E
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Yea, agree, I'm lik'n it. The weight reminds me of the old Fenix TK75, though never bought one, I worked on 1 or 2. Also the #'s are impressive without mods. Did test on the 40T and got slightly better #'s, but didn't do more than 30 secs. I'd expect the 40T to drop quicker as well.

I think adding spring bypasses would get a decent bump - saw a big bump with the HK90.

TMaxxJJ
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Very nice numbers as is! Are you going to/allowed to mod the prototype at all? Would be very interesting to see what bypassing the FET that’s in the carrier would do!

Artiet59
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Tom E wrote:

Yea, agree, I’m lik’n it. The weight reminds me of the old Fenix TK75, though never bought one, I worked on 1 or 2. Also the #‘s are impressive without mods. Did test on the 40T and got slightly better #‘s, but didn’t do more than 30 secs. I’d expect the 40T to drop quicker as well.


I think adding spring bypasses would get a decent bump – saw a big bump with the HK90.


yea that is good info! I hope the 40T doesnt fade too bad, i just ordered some for this light LOL. i would buy Vapcell’s, but are they available anywhere? this may be the first light i try spring byass on, or maybe the K1 first while i wait for the wt90. What gauge wire did you say you used (for the K1)? I have 18g and 22g, but ill order some if need be.

EDIT – I just found it – looks like 20g? for the HK90, on the springs?

Tom E
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TMaxxJJ wrote:
Very nice numbers as is! Are you going to/allowed to mod the prototype at all? Would be very interesting to see what bypassing the FET that’s in the carrier would do!

Think TA said ok, but will double check before doing anything. Only issue I'd see is with higher performance cells, might make the option to "run turbo til the batteries drain" little more heated. But I betta with 10-15A rated 5000 mAh cells, should still do turbo continuously.

Texas_Ace
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CNCman wrote:
Texas_Ace wrote:
Tom E wrote:

That MF02S v2 rating of 6500 lumens is way out there. I see Flashaholic got more reasonable #‘s, think 4800 at 30 secs, 5600 at turn on. I’m even surprised it got 5600 lumens at turn on – that’s impressive for a SBT90.2 in a factory stock light.


I’m assuming the short MF02S v2 has 4 parallel cells?

Unless they have higher bin SBT90.2’s now I don’t see 5600 lumens, the GT90 which uses 8 cells and runs around ~30A of current can just manage 5k lumens IIRC.

The MF02S v2 must have a buck driver if the cells are 2s2p, and getting a 30A buck driver is no small feat as we all know. Something doesn’t add up, maybe they found a much higher bin SBT90.2?


.
Hi Texas Ace Big Smile
Could you please tell me how you checked you lumens so I can make adjustment on my Lumen tube calculation. Mine is off and using a MT35 PLUS with your 90.2 kit with 8 × 30Q’s and 22A, I got 5800 L at turn on.
.

Only way to calibrate a lumen tube is with a calibrated light. I have tried every other method, they just don’t work. Get a light from maukka if you can.

Texas_Ace
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TMaxxJJ wrote:
Very nice numbers as is! Are you going to/allowed to mod the prototype at all? Would be very interesting to see what bypassing the FET that’s in the carrier would do!

Yep, I gave him the ok, preferably keep it working but not real worried about it lol.

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Very nice numbers Tom. I now am wondering how long it has been since I cleaned out my tube, it gets dusty and the numbers drop over time….

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Interested for Ano version

 

Sparks65
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can. no. longer. resist. Interested in clear ano

freeme
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Wise choice!

Texas_Ace wrote:
The prototype is officially in the mail on the way to TomE for a more in depth review with beamshots!
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Seeing this come in right around 1Mcd and considering the relatively low weight for its size makes this a tempting light. I gotta be honest, the styling just isn’t doing it for me.. I’ve tried to let it grow on me too, but no luck. I liked the styling seen in the early part of the video, and think the ‘zebra’ prototype looks best out of the final designs.

I’m very curious to see a thermal analysis and to see what happens with the rpp fets and springs bypassed. I have a FLIR camera I wish I could lend out to TomE to take a timelapse series.

Artiet59
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JaredM wrote:
I have a FLIR camera I wish I could lend out to TomE to take a timelapse series.

I mean i wouldnt want to get involved Innocent but that sounds like a great idea ! lol
Artiet59
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Damn, its only been a week since this Thread started?? I want to order this light! TA, where are they at? Big Smile

Tom E
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I think spring bypasses will help. There's one on the driver and 3 in the carrier. Using cells like the 40T with the spring bypasses, the heat may get out of control in a few minutes. Also TA noted the LED wiring is different in this prototype - uses a thicker gage pair, while in production, they are using 2 pair of thinner wire for better clearance at the solder joints with the reflector.

Hoping this evening I'll get back to it and do/start the mods. Ideally with the bypasses, you could still do a full turbo run (cell drain) with lower performing cells like the Samsung 50G's. Only thing I've done so far is add light amounts of Nyogel on the threads. I've been side tracked with the EA02 - not a light for the masses, being a Boost HX with FET+1 driver, plus they made the battery tube slightly too narrow to fit some cells, and a little involved than most to tear down frown.

Artiet59
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Huh, so bypassing springs and running high all will effect heat that much? Good to know. And honestly I am really happy / impressed with the stock numbers, I probably won’t even touch or mod this light then. I’d rather have a almost 1million CD 4500-ish lumen light that can run for 5-8 minutes not melting than picking up a 1,000 lumens and dealing with the heat. Just me. I’m sure many would rather hot rod it, but this will be a beast anyway.

Tom E
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Artiet59 wrote:
Huh, so bypassing springs and running high all will effect heat that much? Good to know. And honestly I am really happy / impressed with the stock numbers, I probably won't even touch or mod this light then. I'd rather have a almost 1million CD 4500-ish lumen light that can run for 5-8 minutes not melting than picking up a 1,000 lumens and dealing with the heat. Just me. I'm sure many would rather hot rod it, but this will be a beast anyway.

Well, I dunno yet for sure, but speculating it will. I agree - stock it's pretty darn good for it's size/weight. The smaller new MF02S (SBT90.2) is 62g heavier.

For me, I'd rather tweak it for best performance with high performance cells because I'd guess you could still get 3 minutes comfortably, and you can always drop down the amps by using lower performance cells with higher capacity.

 

Artiet59
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That’s a great point, so the mods and run lower amp cells or just back off turbo a little sooner. But you still get the lumens. I like it

Texas_Ace
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there is also the option of simply not putting to full turbo unless needed if you are worried about the heat. Fact is that top of the ramp is enough for 98% of real world tasks and will easily keep heat in check.

Tom, I am betting even with high drain cells and bypasses that the light itself will be fine, the cells on the other hand you will want to keep an eye on, they could get a bit warm. In my test they were 75c when I pulled them. Although higher drain cells have lower IR, so they produce less heat themselves but that could be balanced out by the higher temps of the light. So hard to know till it is tried.

Tom E
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True, no need to peg it on turbo.

I did try the charging. The cells were near full and about 1/4 of the center ring of the carrier lights up steady, and another 1/4 blinks 4 times. I believe when it fully charged, the blinking stopped and the 1/2 of the center ring went steady red. Does that sound right? Checked the manual but didn't see any info on charging. Was wondering if the blinks means rough voltage #, like 4 volts.

Ohh, and I really like the yellow switch LED's. It's a bit brighter on one side in room light, but in the dark it lights up the entire ring well, but not 100% balanced. Think they will improve on that in production?

The carrier design is excellent. I hope they don't add those plastic rings around the positive contact brass buttons because it would prevent using stock T50's. T50's have the depressed tops but they are fine in the WT90 as-is.

Also like the standard size 46 mm driver. Just opened it, and wow, those wires are thick! Didn't check yet, but are they 14 AWG?

Also see a slot for a 2nd FET. Think you mentioned before you saw no benefit to 2 FET's in parallel? Looks like a good FET though - an Infineon, gotta check the exact model though.

The pill area is somewhat tight but enough working space for the wires. The brass driver retaining ring is done well - smooth threading, easy access to the driver.

** Hope my boss doesn't come around or read this. Got the light apart on my desk...

Texas_Ace
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Tom E wrote:

True, no need to peg it on turbo.


I did try the charging. The cells were near full and about 1/4 of the center ring of the carrier lights up steady, and another 1/4 blinks 4 times. I believe when it fully charged, the blinking stopped and the 1/2 of the center ring went steady red. Does that sound right? Checked the manual but didn’t see any info on charging. Was wondering if the blinks means rough voltage #, like 4 volts.


Ohh, and I really like the yellow switch LED’s. It’s a bit brighter on one side in room light, but in the dark it lights up the entire ring well, but not 100% balanced. Think they will improve on that in production?


The carrier design is excellent. I hope they don’t add those plastic rings around the positive contact brass buttons because it would prevent using stock T50’s. T50’s have the depressed tops but they are fine in the WT90 as-is.


Also like the standard size 46 mm driver. Just opened it, and wow, those wires are thick! Didn’t check yet, but are they 14 AWG?


Also see a slot for a 2nd FET. Think you mentioned before you saw no benefit to 2 FET’s in parallel? Looks like a good FET though – an Infineon, gotta check the exact model though.


The pill area is somewhat tight but enough working space for the wires. The brass driver retaining ring is done well – smooth threading, easy access to the driver.

I didn’t pay close enough attention to the LED’s during charging to know what they mean. I did notice that they changed as the cells charged indicating things though lol. I don’t know that they have a manual for the charging on the carrier come to think of it, I was not really involved with that side of things.

I also noticed and pointed out the switch LED being uneven, they said they will look into using 2 LED’s for the switch LED in the future but no idea when this would happen. It is a minor detail that is purely cosmetic though.

They decided to go with electronic polarity protection for this light instead of mechanical. It is great in that you can just toss any cell in it but the downside is the higher resistance FET’s in the carrier to make this work.

I think the driver is technically 47mm but you should be able to use a 46mm driver in it. The wires in the prototype are 14AWG, the production version will be 2x sets of thinner wires, not sure on the thickness they will be yet, the thickest they can reasonably fit without shorting out the reflector.

Yes, they didn’t complain when I told them to use the high end Infineon FET so I did lol.

Tom E
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Ooops, the charging just finished and the blinking red LED turned green - makes sense.

Just noticed the threaded ring around the switch is clear plastic and their factory pics show it as well. It was threaded loose and if I tightened it, it activated the switch. Must be a prototype issue.

I looked at the switch PCB and it has 2 LED's: left one is green and much less bright, the right one is yellow and very bright. So probably just adjusting the resistors. Wonder how it will look with the green and yellow at equal brightness.

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Tom E wrote:
(…)

I did try the charging. The cells were near full and about 1/4 of the center ring of the carrier lights up steady, and another 1/4 blinks 4 times. I believe when it fully charged, the blinking stopped and the 1/2 of the center ring went steady red. Does that sound right? Checked the manual but didn't see any info on charging. Was wondering if the blinks means rough voltage #, like 4 volts. (…)

 

I must admit I started writing the manual with literally nothing in my hands (except for a side note that WT90 will be using NarsilM 1.3.). Since I did not have the opportunity to have a look at the actual flashlight some information might be missing, e.g. how charging and indication is actually implemented into the carrier. I will be glad to supplement any worthwhile instructions into the manual if I get to know them. However, it might be too late already in case WildTrail has finished the print job.

Tom E
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No prob. Most flashlight manuals don't go into detail much on charging anyway. The red blinking transition to green is the main thing, and pretty intuitive. You already listed the max amps, which I can verify.

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Nah, I am not a big fan of 差不多 („cha bu duo“). In other words, I strive for ultimate perfection (typical German stereotype, lol). So, the manual should include anything that is important to know. I hope Jacky can help me to tie up these loose ends. For instance, it is still unknown what accessories will be supplied along with the WT90. As soon as I get some more details on the charging / reverse charging circuit and its indicator/blinky functions I can add another headline and some words about recharging and the powerbank-feature. Smile

 

BTW: I had a brief chat with Vapcell today. The Lishen LR2170LA 4000mAh battery seems to be a good and inexpensive alternative to Samsung’s 40T battery. Maybe there’s an opportunity that WildTrail can stock up some of these batteries and ship them integrated into WT90. This could be a nice option to those who like to buy WT90 with high drain batteries. Will talk to Jacky about it.

Tom E
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I understand, I'm 100% German heritage - father and all 4 grandparents were born there winksmile

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Tom E wrote:

I understand, I'm 100% German heritage - father and all 4 grandparents were born there 


Smile Thumbs Up

I assume I have some distant relatives living in Milwaukee, WI. My mother used to be a pen pal with a family member called Irvin many decades ago. Unfortunately, she lost track of him long ago. So much for derailing this thread, haha. Sorry. LOL

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Tom or TA –
Do you estimate a drop / significant drop in measurements of lumens and throw due to changing from 14awg wires in the prototype Tom is testing to the production unit? It makes me wonder why they would go with such a THICK wire thickness in the prototype and change it for production. i understand the reflector clearance aspect, but seems like an important change considering output and resistance? Maybe i’m wrong? I just know i’m never going to be changing my driver wires to increase output lol..

Tom E
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Depends, you'd have to do the math/science on this.  Probably 2 16 AWG's would do better, but 2 18 AWG's, dunno.

Did some light mods: on 40T's fully charged, actually measured 6280 lumens at start, 5390 at 30 secs (maukka calibrated #'s), and  1027 kcd. 

The mods were:

  • tightening up the carrier - screws were a little loose and the nuts on the center shaft were loose
  • added a 20 AWG bypass to the driver spring (did not do the carrier springs yet)

That's like a 6-8% bump, not bad.

 

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Lux-Perpetua wrote:

BTW: I had a brief chat with Vapcell today. The Lishen LR2170LA 4000mAh battery seems to be a good and inexpensive alternative to Samsung’s 40T battery. Maybe there’s an opportunity that WildTrail can stock up some of these batteries and ship them integrated into WT90. This could be a nice option to those who like to buy WT90 with high drain batteries. Will talk to Jacky about it.

That would be great! If I order the WT90, I’ll most likely get it with batteries (assuming the batteries can be shipped to my country… without too much added shipping fee)

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