Lumintop Tool AA 2.0 Nichia lumens?

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Quality
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Lumintop Tool AA 2.0 Nichia lumens?

I just bought one of these and will probably get it next week. I was looking online for quite awhile to see some runtime/lumen measurements but have had quite a difficult time with it. Does anyone know of any resources for that info?

I also wish it didn’t have that SMO reflector seems like such an odd choice for a little edc type of light, why would we want a SMO reflector? I’m also looking into some DC-fix for that. I did see some people who replaced the reflector with an OP which seems pretty cool but I think I may just go the DC-fix route because I like the idea of removing it as necessary.

tascagdas
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few weeks ago i received my tool ti with nichia. (i also have cree one). i tried to measure it with my lumentube (few weeks ago it was awfull not i made plenty upgrade)
results are not accurate but its like this:

Lumintop tool aa xpl hd: 675 lumen 2600cd (indoor 10m)
Lumintop tool ti aa nichia 219c: 505 lumen 2800cd (indoor 10m)

Quality
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So mine isn’t going to be 505 on max I assume :/

What do you think I’ll get on max? I plan on exclusively running 1050mah 14500s in it. What upgrades did you do, and how much did it hurt battery life?

tascagdas
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I didnt do much with these two. i painted knurling with black nailpolish then removed with acetone for knurling have a contrast (just removed surface not deep in knurling).
Other than body. I have plan for led swap. i didn’t make decision yet.

i think smooth reflector is okay. but if you like op i cant say anything go for it. Smile

I only have 1 good quality 14500 (i cant find in my country and custom is not allowing batteries to come here). so, for that reason i coudnt try batteries (i only have 5A 800mah 14500 (came with fwaa) and few no name cheap 14500.)

I think batteries is important (i will measure again tool aa nichia with fwaa battery this week or so (im waiting new flashlights aswell iwill measure all it once))

If i had dc-fix i would try it first.

chops728
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I have 2 Tool AA —1 with a SST20 4K and another with a XP-G2 3B tint —- both have DC Fix on the lens —- made them great lights (smooth reflector too ringy for me) —- compared to new Lumintop EDC AA light (optic lens) —- the beam and throw are a lot better

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tascagdas wrote:
Lumintop tool ti aa nichia 219c: 505 lumen
thanks for sharing your test results

Quality wrote:
So mine isn’t going to be 505 on max I assume
I dont know why you think your light would be different, it has the same LED. Since tascagdas said his Nichia Tool gets 505 lumens, IF his light meter is calibrated correctly, you should get a similar output with your Tool w Nichia

here is a Tool AA review to entertain you until your light arrives.. however, the review is not for the Nichia version, so the outputs wont be the same. But the discharge curve shape and runtime Will be the same.

https://zeroair.org/2020/01/22/lumintop-tool-aa2-0-ti-flashlight-review/
fwiw, that review says the light has LVP. I dont think that is correct. Since it also works with AA, it would not make sense for it to have LVP. But Im not trying to argue, just saying it makes no sense. Maybe others can help answer that accurately.

imo, this is correct:
https://budgetlightforum.com/comment/1451091#comment-1451091

bilakos10 wrote:
Nev wrote:
Just be aware that it doesn’t have LVP , I always use protected cells in the tool AA , I once ran down a 14500 to under 2 volts.

That’s something I forgot to mention.
Indeed there is no LVP. To my knowledge, it quite a common practice on flashlights that use a boost/fet driver and accept both NiMH and LiION cells.

You can still use unprotected cells, IF you do so responsibly. You MUST take responsibility to prevent overdischarge. One way to do that is to measure Battery Voltage by hand, periodically. Especially if you notice the light is dimmer than usual. Do not allow the battery to go below 3V. Better to recharge any time it gets below 3.6v.

I caution you not to fall into worrying about maximum lumens. That is a typical marketing focus, but is not real world.

Maximum output is temporary, and it is not the main output level I use. Your circumstances, and how you use your light will probably be different. In my case I use the light at indoor distances, so I never need maximum.

fwiw, runtime does not change when changing LEDs, what changes is Only the output.

Im glad you got the Nichia, it shows colors more realistically. Try not to focus on lumen quantity, you bought the LED with higher Lumen Quality.

I dont think you should worry about. the reflector being smooth. It has a very nice beam with a rather large hotspot. I dont recommend dcfix, that will just make the light less bright, and the beam more diffused, with less throw. But you can try it and decide for yourself. An easy way to get some idea, is to just put some Scotch Magic Tape on the outside of the lens.. It will diffuse simular to DC Fix. But again, I dont recommend it. The beam is nice enough in stock form. Just my opinion, I dont like diffused beams.

ps.. fwiw, my copper AA Tool with N219b 4500k makes 237 initial lumens on AA Eneloop.. (on my meter). I dont use 14500 LiIon, so cant confirm or deny whether the Tool actually has LVP. I do hope we can figure it out, I dont know why zeroair and 1lumen report LVP, while bilakos10 and Nev report No LVP

I hope someone confirms what is true

also fwiw, when using 14500, the AA Tool has tail switch LEDs with high parasitic drain, most people disable them:
https://budgetlightforum.com/comment/1725562#comment-1725562

Yokiamy wrote:
I disabled the lighted tailcap of my Lumintop Tool lights, since they drained 14500 in a few weeks.

WTB Novatac Pocket Clip

NorthernHarrier
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I finally got ahold of a Tool AA 2.0 (Nichia) about a year ago. Great light – I waited for them to be in stock a long time, then waited a bit more due to pandemic shipping delays, but the wait was worth it – great value in a light.

"However vast the darkness, we must supply our own light." - Stanley Kubrick

d_t_a
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tascagdas wrote:
few weeks ago i received my tool ti with nichia. (i also have cree one). i tried to measure it with my lumentube (few weeks ago it was awfull not i made plenty upgrade)
results are not accurate but its like this:

Lumintop tool aa xpl hd: 675 lumen 2600cd (indoor 10m)
Lumintop tool ti aa nichia 219c: 505 lumen 2800cd (indoor 10m)

Tool AA (XPL-HD) = this must be the original / earlier version.

The later batches of Tool AA 2.0 and Tool AA 2.0 Ti now use XP-L2 LED — would you happen to have the XP-L2 LED version of the Tool AA, if so, may I request lumens/CD measurement? Thanks!

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d_t_a wrote:
would you happen to have the XP-L2 LED version of the Tool AA, if so, may I request lumens/CD measurement? Thanks!

Stock XP measured 300 lumens on AA Eneloop, on my meter

a 4500k 219b swap gave 175 lumens, on my meter.

personally I dont care about maximum lumens at all, Im all about maximum CRI.
I cannot tolerated Low CRI leds, no matter how bright..

fwiw, you cant really trust lumens posts, unless they are from the same person, with the same meter calibration.. and similar batteries

here tascagdas is reporting 14500 LiIon (which I do not use):

tascagdas wrote:

results are not accurate but its like this:

Lumintop tool aa xpl hd: 675 lumen
Lumintop tool ti aa nichia 219c: 505 lumen

maybe if tascagdas could do a test w Eneloop, we can learn how far apart his meter is from mine Wink
(about 6000 miles.. lol)

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Quality
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The reading of 505 lumens for the Nichia seems high to me, although I am aware that the runtime graphs for the XPL version see a 30% loss of lumens in the first 5 minutes or so on the Turbo setting. It seems quite bright for one Nichia 219c, but I suppose it could start ~ 500 lumens and settle somewhere closer to 300-350. I am not caught up in the lumens game but I like to know what I’m getting when I buy a light.

I am also wondering if the light has low voltage protection since jon_slider says it doesn’t but other sources say it does. For example in the zeroair review he is using an unprotected vapcell 14500 and the light turns itself down to 40 lumens, then 6 min later shuts itself off @ 3.05 volts. I’m only wondering because I did buy the light with two unprotected cells based on what I was seeing online.

d_t_a
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Per my understanding, the Tool AA or Tool AA 2.0 does not have LVP for Li-Ion or NiMh, but I could be wrong here..
(I have not tried to do runtime testing either)

The included manual does not mention anything about LVP either, so I assume it doesn’t.
The manual does “recommend to use high-quality li-ion battery with protective circuit”

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Quality wrote:
The reading of 505 lumens for the Nichia seems high to me

fwiw, in the review link by zeroair,
on LiIon, he reports 956 lumens at 30 seconds into the runtime. that is indeed a very big number.
On eneloop he reports 405 initial, dropping to 281 at 30seconds. These numbers match my experience, and seem reasonably close to a match of Lumintop specs, that say 270 lumens.
I respect his reviews, and have no reason to doubt his measurements. But as you can see, its numbers soup, and depends on variables like initial lumens, vs Ansii lumens (at 30seconds).

Quality wrote:
I am also wondering if the light has low voltage protection

I would also like to know why zeroair and 1lumen, both mention the light has 3v LVP.

while other reviewers say there is no LVP… and the official paperwork says to use Protected cells.

as you can see, everyone has an opinion.. but what we need is actual facts. Sometimes the only way to confirm alternative facts, is to roll your own

so, when you get your light, I hope you do a test and report back to confirm whether or not your Unprotected LiIon get shut off by the light, at 3v

there is only so much numerical speculation I can process, before I give up and resort to collecting my own data.

bottom line is the Tool AA is a nice light, with good outputs, and should not be used with LiIon below 3v. Whether stopping LiIon drain at 3v is determined automatically by the driver, or must be managed manually by the operator, remains to be determined.

WTB Novatac Pocket Clip

tascagdas
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i make measurements again and this time i make few improvements (like reflective cardboard discs to keep light inside of tube)
my lumen tube v1.3:
tool aa nichia version: 557 lumen
tool aa cree version: 846 lumen

Quality
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Well I finally got my Nichia Tool.

tascagdas – 557 lumens is almost unbelievable but it really does look to be somewhere around 500 lumens on turbo to my eye so you could be right. Would you mind measuring high for me? My guess would be around 350+ lumens for high. The thing is turbo output drops quite fast (not to mention the heat) while high is not perfectly regulated but still relatively flat when you look at the runtime graphs. I would basically always use high over turbo personally.

jon_slider – when I drain the unprotected 14500 in my Tool I will measure its voltage and see if it truly has LVP.

I am pleasantly surprised at the beam quality its very good for a SMO reflector even though it has a little ringyness to it, you really don’t notice it in use. I may still try some light diffusion film to see what it looks like, but I can totally use it stock. I will definitely get a lot of use out of this light.

tascagdas
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okay i did one more measurement. this time with my most powerfull 14500 battery. (came with fwaa 5A 800mah)
tool ti nichia:
turbo 559 lumen
high 298 lumen
But i noticed something tool aa have aluminium mcpcb. But titanium version (which i have) has copper mcpcb.

Quality
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tascagdas wrote:
okay i did one more measurement. this time with my most powerfull 14500 battery. (came with fwaa 5A 800mah) tool ti nichia: turbo 559 lumen high 298 lumen But i noticed something tool aa have aluminium mcpcb. But titanium version (which i have) has copper mcpcb.

Thank you for measuring. About 300 lumens is nice for a decently regulated high outputting Quality light.

Titanium is supposedly thermally inferior to aluminum so maybe that is part of the reason for the copper pcb. Also the Titanium one costs a lot more so you get better parts with that I suppose.