Li-Ion for beginners

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I think there are “off the shelf” lithium products than can be used by beginners, all the big name brands have lights that can be used out of the box without knowing too much. They also come with a good manual, a built-in charger often and all the help you can find online on their websites. Many newer lights even have many features that won’t allow customer induced problems like wrong polarity, etc.

However, this hobby is a fairly complex one. there are so many small, big, medium flashlights with various types of batteries, drivers, and emitters - it might take a while to get your head around it.
But because flashlights and LEDs are such a complex topic, they’ll keep you interested even years into it. Flashlights are one of the few areas I am still attached to, even though I started more than five years ago. Many other hobbies were dropped already, but you’ll always need light.

For batteries there are many resources online, e.g.

edit: Welcome to BLF!

Stay on BLF, read as much as you can and you’ll find what you are looking for. This community is a much better one than other forums or hobbies. I have so many hobbies and you’ll always find the aggressive, negative attitude sometimes.
BLF is more peaceful, it seems.

I think “knowing what you don’t know” is very important. You asking these questions in the first place suggest that you have the capacity to safely operate these lights with some studying and asking of questions.

You don’t have to become an electrochemical engineer before owning a hotrod flashlight. Basic dos and don’ts plus a few diagnostic techniques and basic equipment will put you well into the realm of competent.

I hope you have fun here, CRC!

Cyclic redundancy check?

(Nah, can't be--that's too weird.)

Welcome CRC . - what JaredM said.

You are doing well to have gotten this far. You don’t HAVE to learn anything, and be as ignorant as most people are out there. Prior to lithium batteries the ignorance about NiCad and NiMh was, and IS, just as lacking.

It can be complex, but some basics can take you a long way. Then you can continue from there should you decide to.
BatteryUniversity is encyclopedic, but pretty well organized and you can read about particular topics as you need them. I used it a LOT to start. They lack particulars, but that’s what BLF is about.

Personally I think the core of this is not the light, the ‘end product’, but the battery, the driving force. Strongly suggest you start with that. The danger is in the batteries, less than the light. You don’t have to know ‘everything’. Some fundamentals are critical for safety, and function.
Lithium Ion Battery Safety 101…… Lithium-ion battery safety 101

Unless you decide this is ‘too much’ and go dead simple with safety proven lights with USB charges, then consider a good charger too. That is a subject all to itself, but there are outstanding reviews here, best on the web.

What you need to know about batteries is not that hard to learn….how to choose a battery for your device, and what to do, and not do to use them safely. Why cheap re-wraps can be dangerous. What is the continusous discharge rate of a battery, and why it matters. When it is best to not store lights with batteries installed, and some circumstanses when it is ok to do so. What are the chemistries used for Li-ion batteries, and why ICR is more dangerous than IMR, INR, or hybrid…mainly avoid ICR batteries which are much more volatile. Marrying cells for use in multi-cell devices, what that is and why it matters, along with how to handle their divorce when 1 in the married group goes bad. How and when to re-wrap a battery…it is easy, cheap, and necessary, needing only wraps, end insulators, and a hair dryer. I have over 200 li-ion batteries as we speak, and they can be, and have been used safely. Most mishaps involve the uninformed doing something to use their battery in a way it was never designed to be used. The Olights are indeed fairly idiot proof, but other lights can be much more powerful, and further throwing, but learning about battery safety is needed to venture into that arena safely. Some lights recommend protected cells, and some don’t, but those should be handled with care. My recent Wildtrail is an example of that. It uses 3x21700 high discharge rate cells, which can be safely used, but do not store cells long term in the carriage if the light will not be used for weeks. All this is readily available on the internet, and a guy named Mooch has extensive testing on most batteries, and his tests will indicate the best batteries for the job. Avoid super cheap re-wraps from dubious sellers, no telling what cheap battery they put under the wrap.

As you learn cell basics, you'll get more comfortable with them.

As a suggested starting point, I suggest focusing on 'protected' cells. They're labeled as such. 'Protected' means they have a tiny circuit built into them that prevents being discharged to a voltage low enough or overcharged enough to be considered a risk. The protection circuit adds a millimeter or two to the length of the cell, making compatibility with a very few lights questionable. Almost all protected cells are button top, but not all button top cells are protected. If in doubt, ask.

Built-in charging is becoming more common in lights. Even so, investing in a good charger capable of cell diagnostics will be a solid long term investment. Very good chargers can be had for under $50.00.

The pool of LED lights and knowledge is huge. Much safe fun can be had in the shallows. Advanced enthusiasts here on BLF are denizens of the deepest environs, writing driver code & hand making complete hot rod lights from scratch or even scraps. But, they seemingly always surface to throw a beginning member a life preserver when needed.

Lots of good suggestions upthread for basic education. Take the time to read, treat cells with some respect and, have fun.

slmjim

Unfortunately the hotrod flashlight development started here on BLF (about 10 years ago), where we love diving into the details, also of batteries. It led to the consensus that you are supposed to know about battery safety if you are going for a hotrod, or else you are an idiot. The first hotrods were made by hobbyists on BLF (and a few at CPF and TLF) and were completely unsafe, but when actual chinese flashlight manufacturers picked up making hotrods, battery safety was still not priority for them because they were targeted at hobbyists anyway, who are aware of li-ion battery safety.
But nowadays, some higher-end manufacturers (like Olight) do attempt to make their flashlights both high-performing and idiot-proof.

I’m wondering about something similar actually. Has anyone here actually dissected a battery up till the oozy chemical sludge part? What color is it? Is it like peanut butter? Does it burn skin? I don’t see many post from people operating on the battery?
Would be nice to see the parts and chemicals in there. Just need googles, gloves and tools. This way one can see the actual item powering all our fancy flashlights. Yes…battery sludge is your friend! :slight_smile:

Yes.
Disassembly of cheap 18650 battery

Cool! Tell you the truth, I’ve seen and know very little about inside battery…until now. :slight_smile:
Woah never knew it has paper wrapping in em. Always thought of them like toothpaste tube. Just paste and couple of metal piece. Hmmm maybe I’ll open one up this weekend! :smiley:

Watch this episode of Nova:

From vigorous venting to watching an 18650 manufactured, it’s pretty interesting. So are the youtube videos.

Nice! And from PBS too. They always have awesome shows! :slight_smile:

Easy to learn, Easy to outgrow. The hobby can be as much or as little as you want it to be.

Helping a budding enthusiast is never a waste of time.

"Whether you believe you can or you can't, you're right."

Henry Ford

And, it's not over your head if you just wade around in the shallows. Lots of good stuff there. One of the worst mistakes is to be your own limiting factor.

slmjim

You say it’s not safe to keep batteries inside a light long term & refer to your WT-90 as it has 3x21700 high discharge cells. Does that then mean my Olight Marauder-II is a ticking time bomb? It too has inbuilt 3x21700 cells. What about laptops, phones battery packs for tools etc?

I think people love to think their hobbies are ‘dangerous’. I think quality flashlights and quality cells are pretty safe these days if you don’t do anything majorly stupid.

But on a larger scale, lithium batteries can be quite dangerous. I heard when a Tesla’s on fire, it takes at least 2 hours to put it out! It also has to be submerged in water after the fires out for another few hours! :open_mouth: