Zebralight SC64c LE with LH351D NOT high CRI

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Quadrupel
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TPS63020 can push up to 2Amps with empty 2.6V battery

maxwolfie
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In light of all this… is anyone else offput by what’s happened or is this par for the course for cheap(ish) flashlights?

Asking as I’ve got my first ZL on order but I’m now not sure whether I want this or something else.

BurningPlayd0h
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maxwolfie wrote:
In light of all this… is anyone else offput by what’s happened or is this par for the course for cheap(ish) flashlights?

Asking as I’ve got my first ZL on order but I’m now not sure whether I want this or something else.

Yes, the fact that this has happened disappoints me a lot. I understand that sometimes mistakes are made though and how they deal with this issue will have a big impact on how I feel about it as well. At worst it could have been ZL trying to pull a fast one, someone there was negligent and mixed up LEDs they have in stock, or at best (for Zebra’s competence) the supplier sent them mislabeled product.

I have had and seen others have even more serious issues from other brands, a number of which are selling light for the same or even higher price. There is going to be a number of “lemons” for any mass-produced product and how the company handles customers that receive them is what is really telling IMO.

SYZYGY
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maxwolfie wrote:
In light of all this… is anyone else offput by what’s happened or is this par for the course for cheap(ish) flashlights? Asking as I’ve got my first ZL on order but I’m now not sure whether I want this or something else.

if i really wanted that specific emitter in that CRI and didn't get it, i'd be pissed.

but if that's not the case, i don't think this affects you. also, it's possible that an informed consumer would take a gamble and buy it anyways in hopes of getting the bait-and-switch, lower-CRI emitter because supposedly it has a nice tint.

 

i still continue to buy ZLs as gifts for family and friends, and i'd buy replacements if i broke my headlamp or flashlights today.

the newest ones i got have the new battery cathode contact. i can see that it might be less prone to denting batteries in the event of a drop, but i wonder how it compares in terms of current carrying capacity (within the requirements of the flashlight) and long term durability. being optimistic, maybe it's all-around better?

nottawhackjob
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SYZYGY wrote:

maxwolfie wrote:
In light of all this… is anyone else offput by what’s happened or is this par for the course for cheap(ish) flashlights? Asking as I’ve got my first ZL on order but I’m now not sure whether I want this or something else.

if i really wanted that specific emitter in that CRI and didn’t get it, i’d be pissed.


but if that’s not the case, i don’t think this affects you. also, it’s possible that an informed consumer would take a gamble and buy it anyways in hopes of getting the bait-and-switch, lower-CRI emitter because supposedly it has a nice tint.


 


i still continue to buy ZLs as gifts for family and friends, and i’d buy replacements if i broke my headlamp or flashlights today.


the newest ones i got have the new battery cathode contact. i can see that it might be less prone to denting batteries in the event of a drop, but i wonder how it compares in terms of current carrying capacity (within the requirements of the flashlight) and long term durability. being optimistic, maybe it’s all-around better?

Kinda sorta the same deal in this thread……. Wink

https://budgetlightforum.com/node/78491

“In many things in order to truly understand the small picture you have to understand the big picture first.”

True Color Rendition (TCR)/Simplified Definition: “On a scale of 1 to 10, with 10 being the highest rating, a TCR will equate to what true colors you see in sunlight vs the same object’s colors you see when illuminated with a flashlight. The closer the two are, the higher the TCR rating will be.”

The TCR Reference Standard is the Walmart Ozark Trail OT 50L , Model No. 6103.
It has a TCR rating of ‘10’. $1.00 including batteries.

BurningPlayd0h
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nottawhackjob wrote:
SYZYGY wrote:

maxwolfie wrote:
In light of all this… is anyone else offput by what’s happened or is this par for the course for cheap(ish) flashlights? Asking as I’ve got my first ZL on order but I’m now not sure whether I want this or something else.

if i really wanted that specific emitter in that CRI and didn’t get it, i’d be pissed.


but if that’s not the case, i don’t think this affects you. also, it’s possible that an informed consumer would take a gamble and buy it anyways in hopes of getting the bait-and-switch, lower-CRI emitter because supposedly it has a nice tint.


 


i still continue to buy ZLs as gifts for family and friends, and i’d buy replacements if i broke my headlamp or flashlights today.


the newest ones i got have the new battery cathode contact. i can see that it might be less prone to denting batteries in the event of a drop, but i wonder how it compares in terms of current carrying capacity (within the requirements of the flashlight) and long term durability. being optimistic, maybe it’s all-around better?

Kinda sorta the same deal in this thread……. Wink

https://budgetlightforum.com/node/78491

I don’t follow, that thread is about the mechanics of how spectral composition and Ra rating relate, not a product failing to meet it’s advertised specs.

nottawhackjob
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You’re correct in exactitude. It was more related to some of the comments than the subject itself.

Bowing out.

Butt I did say, “kinda, sorta”. LOL

“In many things in order to truly understand the small picture you have to understand the big picture first.”

True Color Rendition (TCR)/Simplified Definition: “On a scale of 1 to 10, with 10 being the highest rating, a TCR will equate to what true colors you see in sunlight vs the same object’s colors you see when illuminated with a flashlight. The closer the two are, the higher the TCR rating will be.”

The TCR Reference Standard is the Walmart Ozark Trail OT 50L , Model No. 6103.
It has a TCR rating of ‘10’. $1.00 including batteries.

maxwolfie
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nottawhackjob wrote:
You’re correct in exactitude. It was more related to some of the comments than the subject itself.

Bowing out.

Butt I did say, “kinda, sorta”. LOL

OK I’ve got to ask… what’s the go with your signature?

nottawhackjob
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maxwolfie wrote:
nottawhackjob wrote:
You’re correct in exactitude. It was more related to some of the comments than the subject itself.

Bowing out.

Butt I did say, “kinda, sorta”. LOL

OK I’ve got to ask… what’s the go with your signature?

Sorry I’m not following.

“In many things in order to truly understand the small picture you have to understand the big picture first.”

True Color Rendition (TCR)/Simplified Definition: “On a scale of 1 to 10, with 10 being the highest rating, a TCR will equate to what true colors you see in sunlight vs the same object’s colors you see when illuminated with a flashlight. The closer the two are, the higher the TCR rating will be.”

The TCR Reference Standard is the Walmart Ozark Trail OT 50L , Model No. 6103.
It has a TCR rating of ‘10’. $1.00 including batteries.

maxwolfie
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nottawhackjob wrote:
maxwolfie wrote:
nottawhackjob wrote:
You’re correct in exactitude. It was more related to some of the comments than the subject itself.

Bowing out.

Butt I did say, “kinda, sorta”. LOL

OK I’ve got to ask… what’s the go with your signature?

Sorry I’m not following.

Your signature is extremely long.

TimMc
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An SC64w HI arrived recently and there were a few changes:
1) Pocket clip is thinner and easier to use.
2) Button is flatter instead of round.
3) Pogo pins have been replaced by a smaller 6 prong component.

http://imgur.com/a/ArHRjoM

Is the switch the same?

The button bouncing issue where my LE randomly gets stuck while switching on also happened with my HI, so that hasn’t changed:
http://imgur.com/a/cTNtIsY

Infrequent but widely known firmware bug?

Geronimo
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I hadn’t noticed the stuck issue with either of mine but can attest to my batteries flat tops being dented in. Otherwise I love both lights.

Emisar d1s 3a. ZL sc700d,sc64w hi,H600c,Streamlight tlr1-hl, Astrolux mfo1s 4k/purple. Olight I3t Eos black. Ylp 2m cri.ZL sc64le, k1 xhp35 hi in 4k.

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-Im looking at the Manker E14 III which uses this LED and this thread brought to my attention that nowhere in the description on their website does it actually say “High CRI

With CRI being independant of color temperature, choosing the 4000k “Neutral White” version doesnt mean anything in terms of CRI right?-

Edit: Nevermind, I am the dumb.

It does say Neutral White: 4000K CRI>90

Bob_McBob
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OP, any word from Zebralight yet?

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Not yet. They received my lights on July 17th but I’ve had no communication with them.

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Thanks for the update. Glad they’ve got things sorted out. Hopefully this also applies to other affected models (e.g. H503c).

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Bob_McBob wrote:
https://www.reddit.com/r/flashlight/comments/p1lt1t/zl_sc64_le_emitter_9...

Good to see this.

Zebralight wrote:
Subject: ZebraLight, Inc.: Update Tracking #51098

All SC64c LE flashlights shipping out now come with high CRI LEDs. We believe the issue occured in some lights shipped close to the end of last year and in the beginning of this year.

Sincerely,

ZebraLight, Inc. 2908 Story Rd. W Irving, TX 75038


It would’ve been more comforting to be informed about how the mistake occurred and what steps they’ve taken to ensure it won’t happen again. I presume that when a batch of LEDs is received from a supplier, there is a certain amount of testing done to ensure that the labeled bins & temperature match the actual emitters. One would expect this to be done prior to assembly, given the price point of their SC64 flashlights.

In any case, I’m glad there is some acknowledgement of the problem and I trust that they’ll be on mark to prevent this from repeating. I dread to think of buying an SC64 from a different retailer or from someone in the used market… as you’ve no idea if they’ve got one of those low CRI mistakes just waiting to be passed onto someone else.

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I just found this thread and I am wondering if its safe to buy from NKON and not get low cri led in SC64c LE? I dont have equipment to test and dont want to take the risk.
https://eu.nkon.nl/zaklampen/brands/zebralight-flashlights/zebralight-sc64c-le-18650-lh351d-4000k-high-cri-flashlight.html

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If a manufacturer behaves like this, and a retailer doesn’t guarantee a good product, then buying it is a risk no matter what others could possibly say, and no matter how much you and others want it to be a good product.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

Smile, you cannot kill them all.

Bob_McBob
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dropman wrote:
I just found this thread and I am wondering if its safe to buy from NKON and not get low cri led in SC64c LE? I dont have equipment to test and dont want to take the risk. https://eu.nkon.nl/zaklampen/brands/zebralight-flashlights/zebralight-sc64c-le-18650-lh351d-4000k-high-cri-flashlight.html

Nkon restocked the LE after the new production run in May, so current inventory should be fine.

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TimMc wrote:
An SC64w HI arrived recently and there were a few changes:
1) Pocket clip is thinner and easier to use.
2) Button is flatter instead of round.
3) Pogo pins have been replaced by a smaller 6 prong component.

http://imgur.com/a/ArHRjoM

Is the switch the same?

The button bouncing issue where my LE randomly gets stuck while switching on also happened with my HI, so that hasn’t changed:
http://imgur.com/a/cTNtIsY

Infrequent but widely known firmware bug?

I’ve just got 2 new SC64w HI, and I already had 2 “old” ones.

Besides the new positive contact terminal, I noticed that the lower moonlight level is half as bright now, finally. Have you noticed the same?

I’ve never had this button issue, and I have the original SC64w which was used extensively, also a VERY well used SC64w HI, another backup and now two new ones. And 20+ other Zebralight, never had this happen.

About the pocket clip I don’t mind, as I remove them and replace immediately with an old style chrome clip.

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Flashlights are cheaper than therapy.

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Now a word about the low CRI LE emitters… I work for manufacturing industry in Germany. I have also for many years worked inside Chinese factories for quality control. Things just don’t work like most people think it should. Testing new LED rolls to make sure it matches tint and CRI? Nope. Things run in a fast pace (with the boss and managers making you crazy working overtime), usually with late supplies and things must move quickly, they just install them and ship out the door. And for sure the boards are made by a third party factory and Zebralight only assembles the flashlight. The board manufacturer didn’t (or intentionally) see the low CRI emitters and Zebralight’s assemblers (and QC, if any) missed it. Especially in China where the workers don’t know what they’re doing and are misinformed about the product they make. Things are messy inside factories, and not only Chinese ones…

COVID has screwed all the supply chain, from the raw materials (metal, etc) to the final product. Everything is delayed, more expensive, worse quality or simply unavailable. We’re actually lucky that Zebralight is still in business and producing. Everybody is struggling.

I’m dealing with supply shortages everyday in Germany (from China and everywhere else).

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Flashlights are cheaper than therapy.

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Unheard wrote:
If a manufacturer behaves like this, and a retailer doesn’t guarantee a good product, then buying it is a risk no matter what others could possibly say, and no matter how much you and others want it to be a good product.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.


I think the small size and curvy design of my S64C LE is the reason it ends up in my pocket the most. It would be a great pocket light even with low CRI. That being said, it’s a pocket light that costs $80. So it better damn well have the LED that the product page says it does.

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Collection: TN42, TN40S, Catapult V6, SP36 BLF, sc700d, sc64c LE, D4V2 CuZn, D4V2 CuTi, D4V2 Al x2, KR4 Al x2
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Wishlist: Acebeam K75, Zebralight sc600w mk IV plus, Convoy M3-C
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Igor wrote:
Now a word about the low CRI LE emitters… I work for manufacturing industry in Germany. I have also for many years worked inside Chinese factories for quality control. Things just don’t work like most people think it should. Testing new LED rolls to make sure it matches tint and CRI? Nope. Things run in a fast pace (with the boss and managers making you crazy working overtime), usually with late supplies and things must move quickly, they just install them and ship out the door. And for sure the boards are made by a third party factory and Zebralight only assembles the flashlight. The board manufacturer didn’t (or intentionally) see the low CRI emitters and Zebralight’s assemblers (and QC, if any) missed it. Especially in China where the workers don’t know what they’re doing and are misinformed about the product they make. Things are messy inside factories, and not only Chinese ones…

COVID has screwed all the supply chain, from the raw materials (metal, etc) to the final product. Everything is delayed, more expensive, worse quality or simply unavailable. We’re actually lucky that Zebralight is still in business and producing. Everybody is struggling.

I’m dealing with supply shortages everyday in Germany (from China and everywhere else).

That makes a lot of sense to me. The COVID impact on manufacturing has been extensive. SO MANY supply chains have been disrupted or delayed. And pressure to keep up appearances means corners get cut. Who knows how many SC64c LE’s ended up with low CRI emitters? Could be a half dozen, could be 100. I just hope Zebralight holds to good customer service and gets these lights replaced upon customer request. Frankly, the labor cost for ZL to change out the emitter probably ends up being the cost of the light… so it’s a wash—replacement. They could stamp the problem lights with a “D” or “S” and then sell at a clearance price to make back costs.
CollectEverything wrote:
I think the small size and curvy design of my S64C LE is the reason it ends up in my pocket the most. It would be a great pocket light even with low CRI. That being said, it’s a pocket light that costs $80. So it better damn well have the LED that the product page says it does.
I love the body design of the SC64. It almost looks steampunk to me. Such an interesting look. That massive switch. The curvy body. The grooves. And the wonderful size. I don’t use mine much because I inadvertently became a flashlight accumulator. Way too many. One day I will purge… but the SC64c LE will always stay with me. It’s just a great flashlight in so many respects. The switch is the bomb. Added some o-rings for accentuated grip (photo below is old—moved the top o-ring down, so there’s a cluster of 3 near the base).

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Great post Igor, thank you

BurningPlayd0h
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Igor wrote:
Besides the new positive contact terminal, I noticed that the lower moonlight level is half as bright now, finally. Have you noticed the same?

The lowest moonlight on my recently purchased SC64 HI (w/new contact pads) is noticeably dimmer than the min mode of my SC600 HI MkIV which was bought over 3 yrs ago. The second highest LOWEST mode of the 64 HI is actually about the same as the lowest on the SC600 HI.

xevious wrote:

CollectEverything wrote:
I think the small size and curvy design of my S64C LE is the reason it ends up in my pocket the most. It would be a great pocket light even with low CRI. That being said, it’s a pocket light that costs $80. So it better damn well have the LED that the product page says it does.
I love the body design of the SC64. It almost looks steampunk to me. Such an interesting look. That massive switch. The curvy body. The grooves. And the wonderful size.

!{width:95%}https://i.imgur.com/Hk5bkHN.jpg!

Agreed x100! I feel pretty much the opposite as the seemingly huge number of people that don’t like the looks of ZL lights. They look and feel like something honed down for pure performance and utility but still with some… panache for lack of a word that doesn’t make me sound like I sniff my own farts.

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Dear all,

I am new to this forum, but since a few weeks I am closely following your discussions here at BLF and your measurements about tint, CRI etc. of the various flashlights.

I am interested in flashlights with good color reproduction. I see how difficult it is to find lights with LEDs providing high CRI and high R9-R14 values and pleasant beam tint. The manufacturers are somewhat vage providing details of the LEDs they are using, so its a trial and error game. I admit, I am more a collector than a user, but buying flashlights which I finally don’t like is not much fun.

I just ordered a SC64c LE from NKON last week. It should arrive on Monday, hopefully with the correct LED mounted. I have a H503c purchased in April this year which might have the CRI70 LH351D emitter. I like the small H503c, but I wasn’t overly convinced about the color reproduction (and the greenish color at the boundary). As soon as I have the SC64c LE I will compare the two emitters and let you know.

I would be interested to measure the output of my lights (CCT, R1-R14, everything that is so nicely plotted in your postings). I understand that for any quantitative assessment I would need a spectrophotometer. A Seconic C-7000 or Gossen Mavospec will do, but are there cheaper alternatives? Maukka seems to use a X-Rite i1 Studio, right? That would be much more affordable (and I could use it to calibrate my monitor for digital image processing). What kind of additional equipment would be needed (integrating sphere, filters, software)? Any suggestion is appreciated!!

Best regards

Peter
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Welcome to BLF Peter.

Maukka uses a X-rite i1Pro, I have a i1 studio and that also works, they have the same capabilities regarding spectrum power distribution acquisition.
The i1pro can be used with Babelcolor CT&A (paid) to display the chromacity, CRI, TM-30, with nice reports (see Maukka’s threads)
Both can be used with Argyll CMS (free, command line tool) which also displays this info, though not nice reports, but the spectrum data can be loaded into Osram Color Calculator (free) which displays all kind of info and can make nice TM-30 reports like this .
Alternatively there is a paid Argyll pro Android app which is well, more mobile than a PC. The issue with it is that you can’t export the SPD data, Contactcr uses it .

Nkon received a new batch recently, so your SC64 should be good and you’ll be able to compare the color of the phosphors with your H503c.

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