Zebralight SC64c LE with LH351D NOT high CRI

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raccoon city
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Thanks for stopping by, peter_b!

110_milla

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Igor wrote:
Have you noticed the same?

My new SC64c HI seems slightly dimmer than my SC64c LE from early 2020 in the lowest output. I don’t have an older HI to compare with.

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Hello thefreeman,

many thanks for your quick answer and the nice welcome.

I think I might need additional information before spending money for any of the spectrometers. So if you use X-Rite i1 Studio, you are just shining the flashlight light into the sensor opening?? Brightness levels are ok.? Is the X-Rite software already able to show basic parameters as CCT, Ra, Re, or is this Argyll software (or the Osram color calculator) needed for this? As far as I understand, any nice summary plot like your TM-30 example or those in maukka’s threads would require more elaborate software, right?

Have a nice evening!

Peter
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Quote:
you are just shining the flashlight light into the sensor opening?

Yes.

Quote:
Brightness levels are ok.?

If the sensor gets saturated you shine it from farther, with throwers at max output that can be impractical though.
(The sensor used is the ambiant one, not the one for measuring screens).

Quote:
Is the X-Rite software already able to show basic parameters as CCT, Ra, Re, or is this Argyll software (or the Osram color calculator) needed for this?

The x-rite software can’t as far as I know (never installed it).
So yes you need Argyll CMS (or the pro app which is plug and play), I run the spotread command and it gives me the result like in this comment , it can display the spectra too and some other stuff , I can choose to save the SPD data and then open it in color calculator.
You can install it and play with it beforehand if you want, here is an Argyll SPD text file , copy that in a text file and rename it with a .sp extention, then in color calculator go to user spectra, import Argyll format.

Quote:
any nice summary plot like your TM-30 example or those in maukka’s threads would require more elaborate software, right?

Color Calculator, or for Maukka’s reports babelcolor ct&a, but it’s not compatible with the i1 studio.

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BurningPlayd0h wrote:
The lowest moonlight on my recently purchased SC64 HI (w/new contact pads) is noticeably dimmer than the min mode of my SC600 HI MkIV which was bought over 3 yrs ago. The second highest LOWEST mode of the 64 HI is actually about the same as the lowest on the SC600 HI.
Curious. I actually like the moonlight mode on my SC64c LE. It’s not the absolute lowest I own (Niwalker ET2 v2, super low moon). I wonder if this change also affected the SC64c LE?

Quote:
Agreed x100! I feel pretty much the opposite as the seemingly huge number of people that don’t like the looks of ZL lights. They look and feel like something honed down for pure performance and utility but still with some… panache for lack of a word that doesn’t make me sound like I sniff my own farts.
Yeah, it’s a “love it or hate it” kind of thing for a lot of folks. They are unusual, but like you say, in a way that’s focused on utility. I bought an H52F specifically for its looks. Easy to pick out in a lineup:

Rather weak output with an AA, but wow… popped a 14500 in there and lumens nearly doubled.

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peter_b wrote:
Dear all,

I am new to this forum, but since a few weeks I am closely following your discussions here at BLF and your measurements about tint, CRI etc. of the various flashlights.

I am interested in flashlights with good color reproduction. I see how difficult it is to find lights with LEDs providing high CRI and high R9-R14 values and pleasant beam tint. The manufacturers are somewhat vage providing details of the LEDs they are using, so its a trial and error game. I admit, I am more a collector than a user, but buying flashlights which I finally don’t like is not much fun.

I just ordered a SC64c LE from NKON last week. It should arrive on Monday, hopefully with the correct LED mounted. I have a H503c purchased in April this year which might have the CRI70 LH351D emitter. I like the small H503c, but I wasn’t overly convinced about the color reproduction (and the greenish color at the boundary). As soon as I have the SC64c LE I will compare the two emitters and let you know.

I would be interested to measure the output of my lights (CCT, R1-R14, everything that is so nicely plotted in your postings). I understand that for any quantitative assessment I would need a spectrophotometer. A Seconic C-7000 or Gossen Mavospec will do, but are there cheaper alternatives? Maukka seems to use a X-Rite i1 Studio, right? That would be much more affordable (and I could use it to calibrate my monitor for digital image processing). What kind of additional equipment would be needed (integrating sphere, filters, software)? Any suggestion is appreciated!!

Best regards

Peter

If you’re looking for a standalone unit with its own display (similar to the Sekonic C-7000), I use a Hopoocolor OHSP350C. It’s the most inexpensive but fully featured unit I’ve found.

The only thing it doesn’t do is give you TM-30 measurements on the device, but you can easily generate TM-30 reports by importing the spectral data into Color Calculator to create those nice graphics you’re talking about.

When taking measurements, I place the light on a tripod and hold the sensor of the spectrometer directly in the center of the hotspot in a very dark room away from walls or objects so ambient or reflected light does not interfere with the measurement.

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thefreeman wrote:
It’s a buck, but I don’t think it’s a bad thing, it’s more efficient than a buck-boost and with low Vf LEDs like the LH351D 90CRI there isn’t that much boosting to do, "Zak":http://zakreviews.com/sc64c-le.html has a runtime measurement of the LE with sufficient cooling so that it runs at maximum output : !{height:400px; width:400px}https://i.postimg.cc/nF0Ww6C6/SC64c-LE-max-fan-VTC6-263227652494891.png!... It starts to drop at the last 20% mark but only down to 70% (2.1A) at the very end, this is IMO minimal and even with a buck-boost converter it would still drop a bit at the end because available buck-boost converters are not very powerful. (Edit : re-hosted the graph because it wouldn’t load)

 

How do you know this?

It seems weird and I'm curious.

The older SC62 had a buck-boost driver which was always a solid selling-point compared to most other compact 1000lm lights if one likes to use high-mode. 

 

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By identifying the regulator, it’s that one : https://www.ti.com/lit/gpn/TLV62085

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peter_b wrote:
Dear all,

I am new to this forum, but since a few weeks I am closely following your discussions here at BLF and your measurements about tint, CRI etc. of the various flashlights.

I am interested in flashlights with good color reproduction. I see how difficult it is to find lights with LEDs providing high CRI and high R9-R14 values and pleasant beam tint. The manufacturers are somewhat vage providing details of the LEDs they are using, so its a trial and error game. I admit, I am more a collector than a user, but buying flashlights which I finally don’t like is not much fun.

I just ordered a SC64c LE from NKON last week. It should arrive on Monday, hopefully with the correct LED mounted. I have a H503c purchased in April this year which might have the CRI70 LH351D emitter. I like the small H503c, but I wasn’t overly convinced about the color reproduction (and the greenish color at the boundary). As soon as I have the SC64c LE I will compare the two emitters and let you know.

I would be interested to measure the output of my lights (CCT, R1-R14, everything that is so nicely plotted in your postings). I understand that for any quantitative assessment I would need a spectrophotometer. A Seconic C-7000 or Gossen Mavospec will do, but are there cheaper alternatives? Maukka seems to use a X-Rite i1 Studio, right? That would be much more affordable (and I could use it to calibrate my monitor for digital image processing). What kind of additional equipment would be needed (integrating sphere, filters, software)? Any suggestion is appreciated!!

Best regards

Peter

Just a small note, the green ring at the edge of the H503c’s beam is due to the GITD surface around the LED rather than tint shift from the emitter intself.

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Today I received a SC64c LE from NKON, ordered just a few days ago. It definitely has a high CRI emitter mounted, color reproduction looks similar to other high CRI lights (Zebralight H600Fc, Armytek Wizard Pro Nichia 144AR, Acebeam H40 with SST-20). But my H503c which I ordered from NKON in April this year seems to have a much less vivid color rendition. So maybe it also has a low CRI emitter mounted like in some of your units. Comparison of the phosphor color is not so easy between those two very different headlights, at least for my naked, untrained eye… I contacted NKON what to do about it (exchange under warranty?).

The SC64c LE has the modified anode contact (6 small contact points).

peter_b
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Rayoui wrote:

If you’re looking for a standalone unit with its own display (similar to the Sekonic C-7000), I use a Hopoocolor OHSP350C. It’s the most inexpensive but fully featured unit I’ve found. The only thing it doesn’t do is give you TM-30 measurements on the device, but you can easily generate TM-30 reports by importing the spectral data into Color Calculator to create those nice graphics you’re talking about. When taking measurements, I place the light on a tripod and hold the sensor of the spectrometer directly in the center of the hotspot in a very dark room away from walls or objects so ambient or reflected light does not interfere with the measurement.

Thanks for providing this information. I have to study the pros and cons of having a dedicated display in the measurement device vs. instruments like the X-Rite i1 Pro. I also haven’t found a distributor for the Hopoocolor OHSP350C for Germany/EU. German customs adds about 25% fee on items coming directly from China… Sad

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I received a LE from Nkon :

CCT = 4147K (Duv 0.0032)
(Ra) = 91.3 [ R9 = 70.9 ]

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Not too bad Wink How do you like it??

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Was going to say, don’t post this thread over at reddit, or the hiveminds will lose their minds.

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@ peter_b

Have you considered the Opple Light-master-III. It is much cheaper (around 40 €) compared to something like the X-Rite. It is of course most likely not as good as a professional solution, but it seems decent enough for hobby usage. There is a wohle thread about the Opple over at TLF > Link.

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Noir wrote:
Have you considered the Opple Light-master-III.

thanks for making me aware of that option
Im interested in buying one in USA
anybody have a link?

I found a link in Europe, but shipping is $50

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I finally received my replacement SC64c LE and H503c from Zebralight.

They didn’t include a note or anything, just two brand new lights in their original packaging.

I’ve verified that both lights have the correct high CRI LH351D. The SC64c LE has the new style battery cathode contact.

I also noticed there’s some schmoo on one side of the H503’s emitter. It’s probably some excess thermal paste or potting compound. It’s probably not an issue since this is a AA light and the emitter won’t run high enough power to burn the dome. It’s a mule so it won’t affect the beam either.



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Sounds like their QC is slacking.

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Noir wrote:

@ peter_b


Have you considered the Opple Light-master-III. It is much cheaper (around 40 €) compared to something like the X-Rite. It is of course most likely not as good as a professional solution, but it seems decent enough for hobby usage. There is a whole thread about the Opple over at TLF > Link.

Thanks for your suggestion and the link. The little Opple Light Master G3 unfortunately doesn’t measure R9…

I found an upgraded version called ‘Opple Light Master Pro’ (hardware, not the app!). This gadget received the IF Design Award 2020 for good design, see https://ifworlddesignguide.com/entry/282367-lightmaster-pro

I can’t find any retailer selling this improved version yet. Here is a picture from the IF World Design Guidewebsite showing the measured data (incl. R9!):

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I finally got access to a C-7000 SpectroMaster. I measured the SC64c LE that I received from NKON few days ago, and my H503c from April this year (also NKON).

SC64c LE looks good (CCT=4057K, Duv=0.0034, Ra=93.5, R9=76.0), my H503c definitely has a low CRI Samsung LED (CCT=4227K, Duv=-0.0067, Ra=74.2, R9=-28.2)

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peter_b wrote:

Thanks for your suggestion and the link. The little Opple Light Master G3 unfortunately doesn’t measure R9…


This is very strange because If it isn’t able to measure R9 then it shouldn’t be able to measure CRI at all.
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peter_b wrote:

I finally got access to a C-7000 SpectroMaster. I measured the SC64c LE that I received from NKON few days ago, and my H503c from April this year (also NKON).


SC64c LE looks good (CCT=4057K, Duv=0.0034, Ra=93.5, R9=76.0), my H503c definitely has a low CRI Samsung LED (CCT=4227K, Duv=-0.0067, Ra=74.2, R9=-28.2)

Try contacting Zebralight for an RMA. It took about eight weeks but they replaced mine without any fuss.

thefreeman wrote:
peter_b wrote:

Thanks for your suggestion and the link. The little Opple Light Master G3 unfortunately doesn’t measure R9…


This is very strange because If it isn’t able to measure R9 then it shouldn’t be able to measure CRI at all.

CRI (Ra) is actually just the mean of R1-R8.

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Rayoui wrote:
Try contacting Zebralight for an RMA. It took about eight weeks but they replaced mine without any fuss.

You are located in the U.S., did you send your lights to Zebralight USA or to China? I will first try to solve things through NKON as their European dealers, otherwise I might have to pay again customs and import fees for the replacement…

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I sent my lights to Zebralight in the USA. If NKON can take care of you without extra fees, that’s probably the best option.

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thefreeman wrote:
This is very strange because If it isn’t able to measure R9 then it shouldn’t be able to measure CRI at all.

It’s not that it can’t measure R9, the app is just extremely limited in what data it displays because the manufacturer intended to sell a more fully featured version for a higher price. You get lux, CCT, CRI Ra, CIE coordinates and uv, as well as a postage stamp CIE 1931 chart. It doesn’t show R9 or Duv (which you can obviously calculate). Also based on results posted on TLF the lux and CCT measurement is fairly inaccurate for warmer CCTs. There isn’t a comparison of measured Duv with a known good device. I would say it’s ok for telling whether you have a CRI 70, 80, or 90 light as well as approximating the CCT above 3500-4000K. If it can give a reasonable approximation of Duv too it’s probably a useful device for the money, though not that great.

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It was good ol’ product segmentation of course.

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peter_b wrote:
Thanks for your suggestion and the link. The little Opple Light Master G3 unfortunately doesn't measure R9... I found an upgraded version called 'Opple Light Master Pro' (hardware, not the app!). This gadget received the IF Design Award 2020 for good design, see https://ifworlddesignguide.com/entry/282367-lightmaster-pro I can't find any retailer selling this improved version yet. Here is a picture from the IF World Design Guidewebsite showing the measured data (incl. R9!): !https://uploads.ifdesign.de/award_img_337/oex_large/282367_01_new216.jpg!

Strange that the 'Pro' Version isn't available anywhere yet, the IF page says 'date of launch 2019'.

A more capable version than the 'G3' would indeed be welcome.

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peter_b wrote:
Noir wrote:

@ peter_b

Have you considered the Opple Light-master-III. It is much cheaper (around 40 €) compared to something like the X-Rite. It is of course most likely not as good as a professional solution, but it seems decent enough for hobby usage. There is a whole thread about the Opple over at TLF > Link.

Thanks for your suggestion and the link. The little Opple Light Master G3 unfortunately doesn't measure R9... I found an upgraded version called 'Opple Light Master Pro' (hardware, not the app!). This gadget received the IF Design Award 2020 for good design, see https://ifworlddesignguide.com/entry/282367-lightmaster-pro I can't find any retailer selling this improved version yet. Here is a picture from the IF World Design Guidewebsite showing the measured data (incl. R9!): 

I called them this afternoon, and they told me the Light Master III , is the PRO version... 

 

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I had the same issue when I ordered and received a H600fc it obviously was not 4000k nor high CRI. (I have a bunch of 219Bs and SST20 4000ks so I know it didn’t look right).

I contacted them, turns out they sent a wrong version, probably H600f, instead of H600fc.

They quickly sent me a correct one after receiving my return, and included an extra head strap as an apology.

I guess it’s quite common to pack and send the wrong one when the specific model name is not printed on the light itself. I had similar experiences with other brands as well.

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ChibiM wrote:

I called them this afternoon, and they told me the Light Master III , is the PRO version... 

 

Thank you for finding that out. That clears things up.

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