Best Convoy Thrower?

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ShyOne
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w0w, Thanks for the video Funtastic!!!
I see a couple of L21B’s are in my immediate future! Thumbs Up
It blows the C8+ away. Wink

Funtastic
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Only if Convoy gets the focus as good as I have tuned it. Currently if you install a cslnm1 it’s worse than a C8 using the stock 3030 gasket. I currently have 75x L21B’s sitting in my room with another 24 on their way that I’ll be tuning myself. I’ve got a heap of hunters looking forward to buying one as it outperforms many more expensive brands out there.

Convoy never waited for my final measurements on the correct size gasket, so it may not be as decent.

Texas Ace Lumen Tube calibrated with maukka lights

New Zealand store – https://www.piercingthedarkness.co.nz (NZ customers only)

YouTube channel – https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIUWi2vYp4CWrRkOJM70t_w/videos (Demos for my customers, and reviews)

d_t_a
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Quote:

As far as diodes how do these compare:
SBT90.2
FC40
Osram KW.CULPM1.TG
OSRAM KW CSLNM1.TG

and now the Flashlights themselves Tired as far as sizes i know the bigger L7 gives longer range? and higher battery life, better thermals? correct?

Convoy L7
Convoy L6 FC40
Convoy 4×18a
Convoy 3×21a
Convoy L21A – L21B – L21C
Convoy C8+ Osram

honourable mention: astrolux FT03, how does it stack up?

“Good thrower” really depends on the requirement – how far, and ahow wide is the beam.

I’ll give some info about LEDs, based on my beamshots testing with various flashlights and various LED types.

LED: – in general, a bigger LED will produce more light (higher lumens), but will have a wider beam (thicker beam); whereas a smaller LED will produce less light (less lumens), but will have a more focused beam (thin beam) – thin beam will generally mean more range (farther beam distance) ; whereas thicker beams are usually more “floody” (not so far) BUT there some characteristics may not be generalized… – flat (domeless) LEDs result in a more throwy beam ; while domed LEDs tend to result in a bit less throwy beam flat LEDs usually have a big less lumens than domed LEDs (need to consider other factors too)

SIZE ( & depth) of the flashlight head/reflector: – a bigger head/reflector will result in a more focused beam – a smaller head/reflector will result in a wider (not so focused beam) – a deeper/longer reflector will also result in a more focused beam

1) GT-FC40 = somewhat big LED, this is definitely not for a “thrower” type beam, since it’s for a high-CRI (good color rendering), it won’t be as bright and it won’t be as throwy as most of the other LEDs, what it excels is the color rendering factor (usually more useful for nearby-use)

2) SBT90.2 = this is a big LED and has a thick beam; usually big LEDs produce a more floody (not focused beam), but the SBT90.2 produces a fairly throwy beam despite being a bigger LED. Thus this is used mostly for bigger flashlights

3) Osram CSLPM1/CULPM1 = this is a flat LED

4) Osram CSLNM1/CULNM1 = this is a very small flat LED, results in a very focused (thin) beam, that reaches far.

Other ‘thrower-type’ LEDs that are useful would be the XHP35-Hi and XPL-Hi (thus for “throwers”, generally look for SBT90.2 if bigger size light, and Osram NM1 if it’s a smaller size light. But the XHP35-Hi, XPL-Hi, CSLPM1/CULPM1 are good depending on the size of the light. Osram CSLNM1/CULNM1 produces a “pencil-thin” beam that I personally don’t like much (except maybe when it’s on a very small light and need a throwy one).

~~~~~

For compact-size throwers, I would suggest going for Convoy C8+ (XPL-Hi) for a relatively well-balanced beam.
The Convoy C8+ (Osram NM1) will have a more throwy (farther) beam, but less total light (pencil-beam)

In terms of flashlight head/reflector size:
Convoy C8+ is smaller than M21C, which is smaller than L21A, which is smaller than 4×18A / L6 / L7.

Assuming the same LED is used, then the bigger head results in a more throwy beam. (more throwy beam means less “spill area of light” too.)

easyshades
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ShyOne wrote:
stephenk wrote:
ShyOne wrote:
easyshades wrote:
that means picking up a charger, and opening the light up everytime and charging battery, doesn’t that mess up the cap threads overtime or atleast loosen it up? USB-c just seems so much more convenient you can even charge it in the car on the go without taking out the battery. lets just say for a second I forget the usb charging thing.

what’s the difference between these two KW CSLNM1.TG vs KW CULPM1.TG
,and the L21A with KW CULPM1.TG 8A driver for 21 dollars more, is it worth it?


Well yeah, it means that.

Get a LiitoKala Lii 100 Charger, or something similiar; that is fairly low cost. It is one bay & will work just fine in your vehicle too

Yep, you have to unscrew the tail cap to remove the battery, that takes about 5 seconds.
And no, it will not “hurt” the threads. Or at least I have never had that problem.

Of course keep the threads clean & lubed, as well as the O-ring(s).

As far as the difference in those two Osram emitters, that has already been explained.

As far as the Convoy L21? models. I cannot answer that, I do not have one “yetc. Wink
Listen to what Funtastic has to say about those. He abviously know his stuff & has practical experience with them. ✅

Given that I expect the OP will buy more flashlights in the near future, I would recommend the Vapcell S4 Plus.

Well yeah, I agree; a larger & more sophisticated charger would be much better.
BUT, since it seemed buying a charger was either a financial burden OR a possible traumatic experience for him…. I elected to start him out slow when I made that suggestion. Wink Innocent

the charger cost is not the problem I just bought 2 today, the LiitoKala lii402 and astrolux VC04. the issue is the cumbersome task of taking out the battery/s each time I have to charge them lol. also USB charging is very universal, you can charge it anywhere. in car, travel, hotel with the cable you use for your phone, the convenience factor alone really makes paying a little extra for onboard charging worth it for me. however since i got the USB chargeable lights already, (sc31 pro and M3-c) and now that i have aquired the chargers the USB charging is no longer a requirement.

easyshades
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d_t_a wrote:
Quote:

As far as diodes how do these compare:
SBT90.2
FC40
Osram KW.CULPM1.TG
OSRAM KW CSLNM1.TG

and now the Flashlights themselves Tired as far as sizes i know the bigger L7 gives longer range? and higher battery life, better thermals? correct?

Convoy L7
Convoy L6 FC40
Convoy 4×18a
Convoy 3×21a
Convoy L21A – L21B – L21C
Convoy C8+ Osram

honourable mention: astrolux FT03, how does it stack up?

“Good thrower” really depends on the requirement – how far, and ahow wide is the beam.

I’ll give some info about LEDs, based on my beamshots testing with various flashlights and various LED types.

LED: – in general, a bigger LED will produce more light (higher lumens), but will have a wider beam (thicker beam); whereas a smaller LED will produce less light (less lumens), but will have a more focused beam (thin beam) – thin beam will generally mean more range (farther beam distance) ; whereas thicker beams are usually more “floody” (not so far) BUT there some characteristics may not be generalized… – flat (domeless) LEDs result in a more throwy beam ; while domed LEDs tend to result in a bit less throwy beam flat LEDs usually have a big less lumens than domed LEDs (need to consider other factors too)

SIZE ( & depth) of the flashlight head/reflector: – a bigger head/reflector will result in a more focused beam – a smaller head/reflector will result in a wider (not so focused beam) – a deeper/longer reflector will also result in a more focused beam

1) GT-FC40 = somewhat big LED, this is definitely not for a “thrower” type beam, since it’s for a high-CRI (good color rendering), it won’t be as bright and it won’t be as throwy as most of the other LEDs, what it excels is the color rendering factor (usually more useful for nearby-use)

2) SBT90.2 = this is a big LED and has a thick beam; usually big LEDs produce a more floody (not focused beam), but the SBT90.2 produces a fairly throwy beam despite being a bigger LED. Thus this is used mostly for bigger flashlights

3) Osram CSLPM1/CULPM1 = this is a flat LED

4) Osram CSLNM1/CULNM1 = this is a very small flat LED, results in a very focused (thin) beam, that reaches far.

Other ‘thrower-type’ LEDs that are useful would be the XHP35-Hi and XPL-Hi (thus for “throwers”, generally look for SBT90.2 if bigger size light, and Osram NM1 if it’s a smaller size light. But the XHP35-Hi, XPL-Hi, CSLPM1/CULPM1 are good depending on the size of the light. Osram CSLNM1/CULNM1 produces a “pencil-thin” beam that I personally don’t like much (except maybe when it’s on a very small light and need a throwy one).

~~~~~

For compact-size throwers, I would suggest going for Convoy C8+ (XPL-Hi) for a relatively well-balanced beam.
The Convoy C8+ (Osram NM1) will have a more throwy (farther) beam, but less total light (pencil-beam)

In terms of flashlight head/reflector size:
Convoy C8+ is smaller than M21C, which is smaller than L21A, which is smaller than 4×18A / L6 / L7.

Assuming the same LED is used, then the bigger head results in a more throwy beam. (more throwy beam means less “spill area of light” too.)

a very detailed answer thank you, now I understand, I do like throw but not a total ‘pencil beam’ NM1 because its less useful and more for play, I think my ideal LED is the CSLPM1 vs CULPM1 with throw and a more usable beam (wider). what’s the difference between these 2 anyway CSLPM1 vs CULPM1? L21B still does sounds interesting, ill wait around until funtastic or anyone puts up some video reviews.

Funtastic
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You might light the SFT40 instead if it comes back in the L21B, currently Convoy have pulled it from their store

Texas Ace Lumen Tube calibrated with maukka lights

New Zealand store – https://www.piercingthedarkness.co.nz (NZ customers only)

YouTube channel – https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIUWi2vYp4CWrRkOJM70t_w/videos (Demos for my customers, and reviews)

protechteus
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hey, best thrower I’ve had from Convoy was M21a with green osram led. I had it at the same time with L21a osram and it was really competitive. So what I propose: ask Simon to make L21a with green osram led. I’m gonna ask him too.






#

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Funtastic wrote:
Only if Convoy gets the focus as good as I have tuned it. Currently if you install a cslnm1 it’s worse than a C8 using the stock 3030 gasket. I currently have 75x L21B’s sitting in my room with another 24 on their way that I’ll be tuning myself. I’ve got a heap of hunters looking forward to buying one as it outperforms many more expensive brands out there.

Convoy never waited for my final measurements on the correct size gasket, so it may not be as decent.

OK, good info; thanks. ✅
That’s a shame Convoy didn’t wait on your measurements for proper focus..
Funtastic
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I’d suggest waiting for L21B’s focus to be fixed since it out throws the L21A.

Green CSLNM1

L21A – 1,560m
L21B – 1,700m

Texas Ace Lumen Tube calibrated with maukka lights

New Zealand store – https://www.piercingthedarkness.co.nz (NZ customers only)

YouTube channel – https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIUWi2vYp4CWrRkOJM70t_w/videos (Demos for my customers, and reviews)

easyshades
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Funtastic wrote:
I’d suggest waiting for L21B’s focus to be fixed since it out throws the L21A.

Green CSLNM1

L21A – 1,560m
L21B – 1,700m

yes I will wait for that, however id like the white color light.

also a note about the BLF favourite c8+, why do people not recommend the m21a instead? i mean its 2 dollars more but it supports a bigger battery.
see here > its 2.2 usd difference for a bigger supporting battery, on nearly identical size flashlight

m21a with battery 21700 5000mah

C8+ with battery 18650 3500mah

so isn’t it a no brainer to go for the m21a if one was not going to buy a compact thrower?

Funtastic
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I prefer the C8+ CULPM1 with Ramping driver which runs at 8 amps. I get 977m, but no thermal regulation

I’ve never used the M21A as my customers are hunters and the C8+ fits the standard gun mounts. It’s a solid choice for others though

Texas Ace Lumen Tube calibrated with maukka lights

New Zealand store – https://www.piercingthedarkness.co.nz (NZ customers only)

YouTube channel – https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIUWi2vYp4CWrRkOJM70t_w/videos (Demos for my customers, and reviews)

easyshades
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Funtastic wrote:
I prefer the C8+ CULPM1 with Ramping driver which runs at 8 amps. I get 977m, but no thermal regulation

I’ve never used the M21A as my customers are hunters and the C8+ fits the standard gun mounts. It’s a solid choice for others though


could you please tell me more about this ramping driver, what does it do, no thermal regulation, what are the downsides of that?
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Here

No thermal regulation = leave it on and it’ll potentially kill itself from overheating 90°C + . Requires manual control to reduce brightness.

Not true ramping, it’s a config menu you can enter and change the brightness of the first and second level to whatever instead of preset levels.

The M21A can’t fit this driver

Texas Ace Lumen Tube calibrated with maukka lights

New Zealand store – https://www.piercingthedarkness.co.nz (NZ customers only)

YouTube channel – https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIUWi2vYp4CWrRkOJM70t_w/videos (Demos for my customers, and reviews)

easyshades
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Funtastic wrote:
Here

No thermal regulation = leave it on and it’ll potentially kill itself from overheating 90°C + . Requires manual control to reduce brightness.

Not true ramping, it’s a config menu you can enter and change the brightness of the first and second level to whatever instead of preset levels.

The M21A can’t fit this driver


wow interesting, I would view this as something for more advanced users for total control, thermal regulation does seem like a good safety net though. i was just on the convoy store and I see the m21c with CSLPM1.TG (wider head 55mm) for the same price as a m21a CULPM1.TG (smaller 45mm head, same as C8+)
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protechteus wrote:
hey, best thrower I’ve had from Convoy was M21a with green osram led. I had it at the same time with L21a osram and it was really competitive. So what I propose: ask Simon to make L21a with green osram led. I’m gonna ask him too.






!https://i.imgur.com/g48csPq.jpg!

nice pics man, white is what im after, however the m21a is looking very enticing atm, its my top pick until i see some reviews for the L21B that everyone keeps talking about.

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Funtastic wrote:
I’d suggest waiting for L21B’s focus to be fixed since it out throws the L21A.

Green CSLNM1

L21A – 1,560m
L21B – 1,700m

Great advice, I will definitely do that. ✅
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I’m not crazy am I folks? Do you see a cross pattern in the hotspots in the wall shots above? I thought I was seeing similar features in my B158B zoomie with 1mm² Osram at certain focal lengths

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JaredM wrote:
I’m not crazy am I folks? Do you see a cross pattern in the hotspots in the wall shots above? I thought I was seeing similar features in my B158B zoomie with 1mm² Osram at certain focal lengths
Yeah, I can vaguely see it. ✅
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Based on experience fro my my last camping trip, the green Osrams seem to penetrate through smoke and hazy air much better than white beams.

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ArtieT59 wrote:

chadvone wrote:
What are you using your light for? The Convoy C8+ Osram could possible meet all your needs. I’d say a good start. Are you buying or building? Budget? YOU were right about the rabbit hole. LOL Youtube Convoy C8+ Osram by throwhound EDIT check out his other videos

1 for this^ what is your goal? Just to have a thrower? Then I would start with the C8 with osram, cslnm1 and then you will have an exceptional, inexpensive thrower to help determine what you like /dislike. 


cslnm1 is smaller than CULPM1 , cslnm1 throws further, but less bright, theoretically less heat too. That’s debatable.


 


Both of these osrams are smaller leds than the sbt90, so they have much less lumens and do not throw much further though. Reason why sbt90 is so expensive, it throws like and osram with lumens like an xhp50.


 


of everything you mentioned, for a first thrower m I’d go C8 with osram or L21a with osram, or sbt90 4×18a. 
 My first “thrower” Was ft03 with xhp50. I still think it’s a great contender. 


there’s a lot to learn, kindve. I’d say spend less, see what you like (pencil beam & more throw, wide spill and less throw, or both and pay $50-$100 more for sbt90), and buy accordingly. Lol


 


Happy deal hunting! Feel free to ask more!


OK, now here is the problem with getting a thrower just to have 1 in the collection. Once you get a thrower that can throw 800 meters, it might likely be the case that you then just get bit by the bug these light saber throwers induce. Next thing you know you are climbing the thrower lust mountain in search for ever higher lumens thrown ever farther away. The incrementally further throwing lights then get used, while the former long thrower occupies a lonely space on the shelf. Wash, rinse, and repeat. Soon you end up at the limit for what you find tolerable as a price for any single light, and all previous throwers become shelf queens. For many, myself included, it might be better to just bite the bullet and get a K75 to start. That is the one I mention, because it is the next super thrower in my lustful sights for purchase. I can’t rightfully explain my desire to have lights capable of shining in someones window from a mile away, but it is an evolving lust that needs satisfying. It is not like I need a light that would work well out the door of a search and rescue helicopter, but if there ever is such a need, I will be prepared. I can always have it just in case a local highschool football stadium looses their stadium lights. Welcome all to the rabbit hole that flashlight collecting becomes. I say skip the preliminaries and just go for the big fish…it will be cheaper in the long run.
easyshades
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sarge12 wrote:
ArtieT59 wrote:

chadvone wrote:
What are you using your light for? The Convoy C8+ Osram could possible meet all your needs. I’d say a good start. Are you buying or building? Budget? YOU were right about the rabbit hole. LOL Youtube Convoy C8+ Osram by throwhound EDIT check out his other videos

1 for this^ what is your goal? Just to have a thrower? Then I would start with the C8 with osram, cslnm1 and then you will have an exceptional, inexpensive thrower to help determine what you like /dislike. 


cslnm1 is smaller than CULPM1 , cslnm1 throws further, but less bright, theoretically less heat too. That’s debatable.


 


Both of these osrams are smaller leds than the sbt90, so they have much less lumens and do not throw much further though. Reason why sbt90 is so expensive, it throws like and osram with lumens like an xhp50.


 


of everything you mentioned, for a first thrower m I’d go C8 with osram or L21a with osram, or sbt90 4×18a. 
 My first “thrower” Was ft03 with xhp50. I still think it’s a great contender. 


there’s a lot to learn, kindve. I’d say spend less, see what you like (pencil beam & more throw, wide spill and less throw, or both and pay $50-$100 more for sbt90), and buy accordingly. Lol


 


Happy deal hunting! Feel free to ask more!

OK, now here is the problem with getting a thrower just to have 1 in the collection. Once you get a thrower that can throw 800 meters, it might likely be the case that you then just get bit by the bug these light saber throwers induce. Next thing you know you are climbing the thrower lust mountain in search for ever higher lumens thrown ever farther away. The incrementally further throwing lights then get used, while the former long thrower occupies a lonely space on the shelf. Wash, rinse, and repeat. Soon you end up at the limit for what you find tolerable as a price for any single light, and all previous throwers become shelf queens. For many, myself included, it might be better to just bite the bullet and get a K75 to start. That is the one I mention, because it is the next super thrower in my lustful sights for purchase. I can’t rightfully explain my desire to have lights capable of shining in someones window from a mile away, but it is an evolving lust that needs satisfying. It is not like I need a light that would work well out the door of a search and rescue helicopter, but if there ever is such a need, I will be prepared. I can always have it just in case a local highschool football stadium looses their stadium lights. Welcome all to the rabbit hole that flashlight collecting becomes. I say skip the preliminaries and just go for the big fish…it will be cheaper in the long run.

i am not like that to be honest, i buy what i need, i understand some get the bug though and it becomes an addiction, i will only have one EDC (purchased), one search light (purchased), and now im looking for one thrower (pending). the only reason i would get a 2nd of any of the mentioned category is if the first one breaks.

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protechteus wrote:
hey, best thrower I’ve had from Convoy was M21a with green osram led. I had it at the same time with L21a osram and it was really competitive. So what I propose: ask Simon to make L21a with green osram led. I’m gonna ask him too.






!https://i.imgur.com/g48csPq.jpg!


.
Wow, nice pics protechteus Thumbs Up
You just convinced me to use the green osram led in a new titanium build that is under construction.
I was going to use the white osram, but man, the green has almost no reflection and gets deeper into the woods. Cool
Thank You for sharing !!
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To me it seems pointless to get a thrower that will illuminate details at a distance, when you cannot see the details due to the distance.

I’ll settle for a beam that gives me a wider field of view at the limit of my vision, thus eliminating any interest in an LEP.

Mind you I’m new to this, so I reserve the right to change my mind. Smile

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Camaro wrote:
To me it seems pointless to get a thrower that will illuminate details at a distance, when you cannot see the details due to the distance.

I’ll settle for a beam that gives me a wider field of view at the limit of my vision, thus eliminating any interest in an LEP.

Mind you I’m new to this, so I reserve the right to change my mind. Smile

I think this is generally a good mentality if practicality is your goal. This is why I think the sft40 l21b is exciting to me in a bland way. No frills but a super useful beam and usable at any range. LEPs are great if your looking through hi mag optics, but largely useless with the naked eye. 1mm² Osram makes great sense for compact lights up to the ‘tactical’ ~40mm bezel class, esp if 1*18650 is all that’s pushing it. 2mm² kinda begs for a 21700 at 6.5-7A, and before the sft40 it was the only high luminance option for larger than c8 sizes using a single cell IMO. 90.2 ‘throwers’ are cool, but until you get to at least a 4×18a in host size and battery supply, they are toys imo. Personally I consider reflectored 90.2 designs as ‘searchlights’ rather than ‘throwers’. I would love to see a collared aspheric 90.2 light in the size range of the 3×21a or mf02s if I wanted a high lumen ‘thrower’. Sft70 will be an interesting in between in the future.

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Camaro wrote:
To me it seems pointless to get a thrower that will illuminate details at a distance, when you cannot see the details due to the distance.

I’ll settle for a beam that gives me a wider field of view at the limit of my vision, thus eliminating any interest in an LEP.

Mind you I’m new to this, so I reserve the right to change my mind. Smile


I get it…try watching a bunny rabbit hop around @1700mts…lol

CR888

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Camaro wrote:
To me it seems pointless to get a thrower that will illuminate details at a distance, when you cannot see the details due to the distance.

I’ll settle for a beam that gives me a wider field of view at the limit of my vision, thus eliminating any interest in an LEP.

Mind you I’m new to this, so I reserve the right to change my mind. Smile


well yeh i am in the same mindset, I don’t want a laser pointer toy. I already have a mid range flooder. the M3-C but it does not go the distance say 100 meters and over. it does but its a very light watered down beam that does not do it for me. that’s where a “usable” spotlight comes in. yes the spotlight will not be used often but it would be useful to have at least one in the arsenal for that day, and don’t fall for all the advertised range, usually divide it by half and that’s the true real world range. i don’t even plan on using it over 200 meters as I don’t think there is such a distance to look at where I live in the suburbs, but you can be for sure that up to 300 meters with the naked eye this will work just fine if the day comes. that’s why you go for the most bang for buck one and dont go for the most expensive one since its not the most used light.

it turns out that is the C8+ osram.. but after finding out the 21700 bigger battery version is called the m21a which is only 2 dollars more, well that in my mind is the best bang for buck thrower atm. I honestly think the m21a CULPM1.TG with the wider more usable spotlight is the one for me.
the CSLNM1.TG feels more like a less usable light with a much smaller pencil beam that I’m sorry to say seems like a toy than a tool. unless you are specifically using it for a gun light?

best comparison video so far 2:53

Funtastic
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Something to give an idea before I finish this video

Hill at 1,110m or so

C8+ CSLNM1

L21B CSLNM1

L21B CULPM1

Texas Ace Lumen Tube calibrated with maukka lights

New Zealand store – https://www.piercingthedarkness.co.nz (NZ customers only)

YouTube channel – https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIUWi2vYp4CWrRkOJM70t_w/videos (Demos for my customers, and reviews)

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Ignore the purple ring, it’s from the AR coating on the lens.

Texas Ace Lumen Tube calibrated with maukka lights

New Zealand store – https://www.piercingthedarkness.co.nz (NZ customers only)

YouTube channel – https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIUWi2vYp4CWrRkOJM70t_w/videos (Demos for my customers, and reviews)

easyshades
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Funtastic wrote:
Something to give an idea before I finish this video

Hill at 1,110m or so

C8+ CSLNM1

L21B CSLNM1

L21B CULPM1

!{width:80%}[img]https://i.imgur.com/jKTR3bW.jpg[/img]!


wow impressive work, that CULPM1 is looking real good to me as it has a slight more spill at the end? should I expect the m21a CULPM1 to be on par with the L21b CULPM1?
the head is slightly smaller so what would you think the range would be on that?
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No idea because it’s only running at 6A instead of the 8A drivers I’m running. At 8A the C8+/M21A CULPM1 gets close to 1000m

Yes, it has a wider beam

Texas Ace Lumen Tube calibrated with maukka lights

New Zealand store – https://www.piercingthedarkness.co.nz (NZ customers only)

YouTube channel – https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIUWi2vYp4CWrRkOJM70t_w/videos (Demos for my customers, and reviews)

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