Best Convoy Thrower?

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easyshades
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Funtastic wrote:
No idea because it’s only running at 6A instead of the 8A drivers I’m running. At 8A the C8+/M21A CULPM1 gets close to 1000m

Yes, it has a wider beam


sounds good, I think this is the one, i forgot about portability too, i do prefer it having a smaller head that fits in a jacket/hoodie pocket without sacrificing much range. m21a CULPM1 is the final choice with its great price. $33.50 battery included.

i just asked their aliexpress store about the official range as its not in the description. they replied with this.

M21A KW CSLPM1.TG 759 meters
M21A KW CULPM1.TG a little longer range

so running 8A vs 6A makes 200m difference?! or are they being conservative with the range?

Funtastic
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I hope you realize though that those beamshots are to just show the beam characteristics, and in no way does it look that bright or have that range. It’s just for the thumbnails of my YouTube vids

Texas Ace Lumen Tube calibrated with maukka lights

New Zealand store – https://www.piercingthedarkness.co.nz (NZ customers only)

YouTube channel – https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIUWi2vYp4CWrRkOJM70t_w/videos (Demos for my customers, and reviews)

Funtastic
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easyshades wrote:
i just asked their aliexpress store about the official range as its not in the description. they replied with this.

M21A KW CSLPM1.TG 759 meters
M21A KW CULPM1.TG a little longer range

so running 8A vs 6A makes 200m difference?! or are they being conservative with the range?

Different light meters will give a different result. I doubt anyone’s measurements ever line up exactly across the board.

Edit: Simon (Convoy) measures at 5 meters, I measure at 20 meters for long range throwers. Can never get a good comparison without using the same equipment

Texas Ace Lumen Tube calibrated with maukka lights

New Zealand store – https://www.piercingthedarkness.co.nz (NZ customers only)

YouTube channel – https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIUWi2vYp4CWrRkOJM70t_w/videos (Demos for my customers, and reviews)

easyshades
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Funtastic wrote:
I hope you realize though that those beamshots are to just show the beam characteristics, and in no way does it look that bright or have that range. It’s just for the thumbnails of my YouTube vids

understood, i always cut my expectation down by %20 of what reviews/vids/pictures show. honestly 750m range is plenty for me for a thrower
Funtastic
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easyshades wrote:
understood, i always cut my expectation down by %20 of what reviews/vids/pictures show. honestly 750m range is plenty for me for a thrower

…and then reduce by 50% at least for good usable lighting. If you want to see 1000m you need 2000m ANSI spec

Texas Ace Lumen Tube calibrated with maukka lights

New Zealand store – https://www.piercingthedarkness.co.nz (NZ customers only)

YouTube channel – https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIUWi2vYp4CWrRkOJM70t_w/videos (Demos for my customers, and reviews)

easyshades
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Funtastic wrote:
easyshades wrote:
understood, i always cut my expectation down by %20 of what reviews/vids/pictures show. honestly 750m range is plenty for me for a thrower

…and then reduce by 50% at least for good usable lighting. If you want to see 1000m you need 2000m ANSI spec


hahaha yes divide the advertised range by half and you got your real usable range. I learned that early
Funtastic
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Texas Ace Lumen Tube calibrated with maukka lights

New Zealand store – https://www.piercingthedarkness.co.nz (NZ customers only)

YouTube channel – https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIUWi2vYp4CWrRkOJM70t_w/videos (Demos for my customers, and reviews)

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Great video Funtastic, thank you!! ✅

easyshades
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Funtastic wrote:

Culpm1 performed exactly as I hoped, better spread at the end, yeh it uses more fuel lol but it gets the job done better for me. thanks for the video comparison
Fedtro
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[quote=ArtieT59]

[quote=easyshades] interessante, eh inizialmente stavo tirando su tra quei due che hai menzionato, c8+ osram vs l21a osram e qual è la differenza. ma di quanto ho letto c'è una nuova L21b che è meglio? Mi chiedo anche se Convoy produrrebbe la fantastica nuova ricarica USB-C Convoy 3×21a è 3x Osrams? lol in questo momento ce l'hanno nel diodo sft40. come si confronta sft40 con gli osram? [/citazione]

Come ha detto Funtastic, l'osram di CSLNM1 è più intenso, il che lo fa apparire più luminoso (nell'hotspot al centro del raggio), ma lo spill del CULPM1 è più luminoso e consente di vedere di più intorno all'hotspot e teoricamente consente di vedere di più campo visivo di fronte a te, non solo molto in basso / in un piccolo punto concentrato vicino a te.

 

Il 3x21a o il 4x18a con (3) osram sarebbe fantastico, ed è una modifica che ho intenzione di fare a una diversa luce dell'emettitore 4x, penso che sarebbe bello. Getterebbe più lontano dello sft40 3x21a, ma secondo me il colore e la qualità del raggio potrebbero non essere altrettanto buoni. è difficile dire con quelle luci multi riflettore finché non le hai in mano quanto è buona la qualità del raggio con un dato LED. 

 

[quote=easyshades] hai detto se volevo un lancio e una fuoriuscita più ampia per sbt90, ma il 3x21a non riempie un po' quel vuoto di offrire una gamma di 1029 m più la fuoriuscita di luci 3x? senza il surriscaldamento e la cattiva durata della batteria di un sbt90, punto debole suppongo, correggimi se sbaglio. [/citazione]

Questa luce diventerà molto calda, più calda della singola luce sbt90 o almeno altrettanto calda (penso che il 3x21 sia elencato per funzionare a 17,8 amp, e Simon ha detto che il suo driver sbt90.2 è un driver da 18 amp) quindi potrebbero essere molto simile, ma non credo che il 3x21a funzionerebbe notevolmente meno caldo. Inoltre, la durata della batteria (se entrambi hanno la stessa configurazione) sarebbe probabilmente simile perché entrambi i driver in esecuzione con uscita dell'amplificatore simile, quindi uno non dovrebbe essere molto migliore dell'altro anche qui. Il 3x21a sta emettendo molta potenza, sarà notevolmente più luminoso dello sbt90 e avrà una dispersione maggiore, ma il 3x21a non getterà così lontano (una luce a triplo riflettore getta circa il 20% in meno rispetto al led equivalente in un singolo riflettore light, penso di aver letto da qualche parte da U/TomE). 

 

Penso che tu debba solo rimanere concentrato su quale sia il tuo obiettivo per questa luce...

portatile?

"sversamento" luminoso?

lungo raggio ?

lungo raggio e "sversamento" luminoso?

1 batteria o più di 1 batteria?

ricarica interna?

 

mi riporta a questo: se non hai bisogno di ricaricare, prendi il C8 + con cslnm1 (prezzo vs prestazioni = questo è un vincitore, come hanno detto altri shave). se vuoi caricare, prendi il 3x21a o il 4x18a (rispettivamente triplo LED o sbt90 - saranno abbastanza simili in uscita, lancio e artisti fantastici, con le differenze che ho menzionato sopra). L'L21a è fantastico, ma pesante e il compromesso in termini di peso probabilmente non vale la perdita di portabilità che ottieni con il C8+, se la portabilità è importante per te. è qui che L21b può essere un buon compromesso: più leggero di L21a, migliore lancio di C8+, ma con prestazioni vicine a L21a e peso più vicino a C8+ che a L21a. è solo kidn've .. blah guardando. lol

[/citazione]

 

There is already a flashlight with not 3 but even 4 Osram W2.2 CULPM1.TG and it is Haikelite MT41 it derives from the MT40 with USB charging but instead of the SST40 it has 4 * CULPM1.TG and is an exceptional flashlight: 6000 lumens 1400 meters of launch

nottawhackjob
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He might as well be talkin’ fast Italian.

I can’t understand a word he’s sayin’. Flat Stare

“In many things in order to truly understand the small picture you have to understand the big picture first.”

True Color Rendition (TCR)/Simplified Definition: “On a scale of 1 to 10, with 10 being the highest rating, a TCR will equate to what true colors you see in sunlight vs the same object’s colors you see when illuminated with a flashlight. The closer the two are, the higher the TCR rating will be.”

The TCR Reference Standard is the Walmart Ozark Trail OT 50L , Model No. 6103.
It has a TCR rating of ‘10’. $1.00 including batteries.

Fedtro
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ArtieT59 wrote:

easyshades wrote:
 interesting, yeh initially I was tossing up between those two you mentioned, c8+ osram vs l21a osram and what the difference is. but than I read there is a new L21b which is better? i also wonder if convoy would produce the awesome new usb-c charging Convoy 3×21a is 3x osrams? lol right now they have it in sft40 diode. how does sft40 compare to the osrams?

Like Funtastic said, the CSLNM1 osram is more intense, which makes it appear brighter (at the hotspot in the middle of the beam), but the spill of the CULPM1 is brighter allowing you to see more around the hotspot and theoretically lets you see more field of vision in front of you, not just really far down range / in one small concentrated spot near you.

 

The 3x21a or 4x18a with (3) osrams would be awesome, and is a modification i am acutally going to do to a different 4 x emitter light, i think it would be cool. It would throw further than the sft40 3x21a, but in my opinion the beam color and quality may not be as good. it is hard to tell with those multi reflector lights until you have them in hand how good the Beam quality is with any given LED. 

 

easyshades wrote:
 you did say if I wanted throw and a wider spill to go for sbt90 but doesn't the 3x21a kinda fill that gap of offering 1029m range plus the spill of 3x lights? without the overheating and bad battery life of an sbt90, sweet spot I'm guessing, correct me if I'm wrong . 

This light will get very hot, hotter than the single sbt90 light or at least just as hot ( i think the 3x21 is listed at running at 17.8 amps, and Simon said his sbt90.2 driver is an 18amp driver) so they may be very similar, but the 3x21a i dont think would run noticeably less hot. Also, the battery life ( if both are same configuration) would probably be similar because their both running drivers with similar amp output, so one shouldn't be much better than the other here either. The 3x21a is putting out a lot of output, it will be noticeably brighter than the sbt90, and have larger spill, but the 3x21a will not throw as far (a triple reflector light throws around 20% less than the equivalent led in a single reflector light, i think i read somewhere form U/TomE). so the 3x21a could fill the gap between the single osrams or sft40 light and the sbt90 light, but in reality in some ways it surpasses the sbt90 light. 

 

I think you just need to remian focused on what your goal is for this light -

portable?

bright "spill"?

long range ?

long range and bright "spill"?

1 battery or more than 1 battery?

internal charging?

 

brings me back to this - if you dont need charging then get the C8+ with cslnm1 (price vs performance = this is a winner, as other shave said). if you do want charging get the 3x21a or 4x18a (either triple LED or sbt90, respectively - they will be similar enough in output, throw, and awesome performers, with differences i mentioned above). The L21a is awesome, but heavy and the tradeoff in weight probably isn't worth the loss of portability you get with the C8+, if portability is important to you. this is where the L21b may be a good compromise - lighter than L21a, better throw than C8+, but with performance close to L21a and weight closer to C8+ than to L21a. its just kidn've.. blah looking. lol

 

There is already a flashlight with not 3 but even 4 Osram W2.2 CULPM1.TG and it is Haikelite MT41 it derives from the MT40 with USB charging but instead of the SST40 it has 4 * CULPM1.TG and is an exceptional flashlight: 6000 lumens 1400 meters of launch.

Fedtro
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There is already a flashlight with not 3 but even 4 Osram W2.2 CULPM1.TG and it is Haikelite MT41 it derives from the MT40 with USB charging but instead of the SST40 it has 4 * CULPM1.TG and is an exceptional flashlight: 6000 lumens 1400 meters of launch.

 

 

easyshades
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Fedtro wrote:

There is already a flashlight with not 3 but even 4 Osram W2.2 CULPM1.TG and it is Haikelite MT41 it derives from the MT40 with USB charging but instead of the SST40 it has 4 * CULPM1.TG and is an exceptional flashlight: 6000 lumens 1400 meters of launch.


 


 


that looks amazing, how much is it? link? i could not find it on aliexpress..
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Funtastic wrote:
easyshades wrote:
i just asked their aliexpress store about the official range as its not in the description. they replied with this.

M21A KW CSLPM1.TG 759 meters
M21A KW CULPM1.TG a little longer range

so running 8A vs 6A makes 200m difference?! or are they being conservative with the range?

Different light meters will give a different result. I doubt anyone’s measurements ever line up exactly across the board.

Edit: Simon (Convoy) measures at 5 meters, I measure at 20 meters for long range throwers. Can never get a good comparison without using the same equipment

Never consider any given value as being the absolute truth. There are lots of variables that infuence the results. I consider any abolute value a ballpark value. But if someone says: I swapped the XYZ3 with an XYZ4a and the luxmeter gave me 10% more, I tend to believe that. Not the actual value, but the increase in percent.
I own a Thrunite TN32UT, att the first factory made hot rod. The specs were something like 250 kCd but several trustworthy reviewers (like Selfbuilt) gave it 190+ kCd. I put a Green Led in my C8. That one easily surpasses the Thrunite with 10+%. That’s about 950m throw. Hard to find more bang for the buck.

As for in-built charging. Not for me, but opinions here may be as strong as religions.
So I give you 3 words: accurate, robust, waterproof. If you get 2 out of 3, you are lucky.

You are a flashaholic if you are forced to come out of the closet, to make room for more flashlights.

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I’m not a numbers guy. Show me the beef. Good quality video reviews rule the day in my buying decision process. Funtastic, Flashaholic, Weerapat Kiatdumrong, d_t_a, etc. offer real life visual representations of beam characteristics that number crunching can’t compete with. Publishing lumens and candela figures are great for marketing, but they never tell the whole story, which in most cases is just that…a story. I need to see it.

Convoy/Simon is crushing it in a whole lot of flashlight categories, least of which are designed throwers. Depending on what you’re looking for, it’s a candy store pick as to which is “best”.

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 max

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Anybody else with an L21B SFT40 and take throw measurements? I’m seeing a max of ~310kcd. I had to raise the reflector a bit too. This got me 5-10kcd and the corona is smaller / hotspot larger. Out of the box I think 297,000 turn on was what I measured.

Going to try and bump the current up a bit and see if there is any more to be had from this thing. Still a great lightweight moderate lumen thrower, but 25% lower than spec is frustrating and a let down.

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JaredM wrote:
Anybody else with an L21B SFT40 and take throw measurements? I’m seeing a max of ~310kcd. I had to raise the reflector a bit too. This got me 5-10kcd and the corona is smaller / hotspot larger. Out of the box I think 297,000 turn on was what I measured.

Going to try and bump the current up a bit and see if there is any more to be had from this thing. Still a great lightweight moderate lumen thrower, but 25% lower than spec is frustrating and a let down.

The L21B’s reflector height was a mess from the start, Simon was extremely disappointed. The only reason he went on to sell them was me informing him that the reflector just needed to be raised. New gaskets were made for the Osram chips, but still needs adjusting. The L21B with SFT40 needs raising a little too as you had noticed.

The L21B was designed for me as a mounted rifle light for use with only the Osram chips. I’m currently building my own gaskets and working with Simon to get everything sorted.

One thing to note is that not everyone wants a tightly fine tuned hotspot, this has already been reviewed by a few people including 1lumen as having an excellent beam. Entirely depends what each individual’s preference is though. If it’s going on a gun I like a tight beam, if it’s used as a search light, I love the spill in the corona to light up a paddock when searching for animals.

I just received the L21A and C8+ with SFT40 and get the following

L21A stock gasket – 1,167m
L21A custom gasket – 1,248m

C8+ – 819m

Measured at 20m

I was going to ask Simon to adjust the gasket for that 1,248m, but searching for animals it provides a nice bright corona spill for more coverage. My custom gasket creates a sharp edge, similar to the 4×18A SBT90.2. It’s precisely focused, but thought it was too narrow for the purpose I’m selling it for. Back it off slightly and it would have a corona, but for less than 100m gain it’s not really worth the hassle. The L21B on the other hand could be worse off, I’ll test this tomorrow

Texas Ace Lumen Tube calibrated with maukka lights

New Zealand store – https://www.piercingthedarkness.co.nz (NZ customers only)

YouTube channel – https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIUWi2vYp4CWrRkOJM70t_w/videos (Demos for my customers, and reviews)

JaredM
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Thanks for the feedback Funtastic.

Are those lights using the ramping driver?

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JaredM wrote:
Are those lights using the ramping driver?

The C8+ is using the ramping driver, the L21A is using the 8A buck driver.

L21A – 1980 lumens at 30 sec
C8+ – 1920

That buck driver holds a steady level for awhile which is nice, the ramping driver drops down on Turbo continuously. The SFT40 replaces the SST40, I’m selling off all my stock for the SFT04 now, very impressed.

Texas Ace Lumen Tube calibrated with maukka lights

New Zealand store – https://www.piercingthedarkness.co.nz (NZ customers only)

YouTube channel – https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIUWi2vYp4CWrRkOJM70t_w/videos (Demos for my customers, and reviews)

JaredM
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For the record, all that I expect from this reflector is 365kcd at peak output. Running 8A instead of 10A will cut this down to about 345kcd.

In meters that works out to 1210m and 1175m respectively.

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I installed an SFT40 into an L21B and get 372,800 cd with my gasket. I’ll just tell everyone here, no need to pm me, but thanks.

I increased the height by 0.7mm. This L21B could do with 0.4mm I reckon. I’ll make some more tomorrow

Well, just a correction to my reply earlier. My gasket is too high currently, needs a little shaved off for the L21A. The high measurement of 1,248m was just winding out the bezel, my gasket looks just slightly out which resulted in 1,230m, not much to it. Can’t remember what the candela was now.

Texas Ace Lumen Tube calibrated with maukka lights

New Zealand store – https://www.piercingthedarkness.co.nz (NZ customers only)

YouTube channel – https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIUWi2vYp4CWrRkOJM70t_w/videos (Demos for my customers, and reviews)

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JaredM wrote:
Anybody else with an L21B SFT40 and take throw measurements? I’m seeing a max of ~310kcd. I had to raise the reflector a bit too. This got me 5-10kcd and the corona is smaller / hotspot larger.

Jared – what did you do/use to raise the reflector? I’d like to experiment with mine as well.

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I personally sand down a second gasket and glue it to the other one, fiddly but works well

Texas Ace Lumen Tube calibrated with maukka lights

New Zealand store – https://www.piercingthedarkness.co.nz (NZ customers only)

YouTube channel – https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIUWi2vYp4CWrRkOJM70t_w/videos (Demos for my customers, and reviews)

JaredM
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So far I’ve only experimented quickly with unscrewing the bezel and tuning it maglite style. The plan is to punch out round discs of aluminum tape to build up the mcpcb around the emitter. Thinner tape for fine tuning after that or sanding the spacer.

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It looks like yours is underperforming. I measured with the stock gasket at 20m and got 365kcd

I know that measuring a thrower like this at 9m it’s roughly 100m less

To check my lux meter I compared it to the 1Lumen review of the Maxtoch L3K, I reviewed the same flashlight. I got 2,900m,1Lumen got over 2,700, which if there meter is correct then mine is 5% too high. That would still make it 346kcd

Texas Ace Lumen Tube calibrated with maukka lights

New Zealand store – https://www.piercingthedarkness.co.nz (NZ customers only)

YouTube channel – https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIUWi2vYp4CWrRkOJM70t_w/videos (Demos for my customers, and reviews)

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Not gonna read the 87 posts but IMHO L2 with Osram is best thrower.

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JaredM wrote:
Anybody else with an L21B SFT40 and take throw measurements? I’m seeing a max of ~310kcd. I had to raise the reflector a bit too. This got me 5-10kcd and the corona is smaller / hotspot larger. Out of the box I think 297,000 turn on was what I measured.

Going to try and bump the current up a bit and see if there is any more to be had from this thing. Still a great lightweight moderate lumen thrower, but 25% lower than spec is frustrating and a let down.

Just curious, I tried to compare 2 units of the L21B with SFT40.

I notice one has a slightly smaller corona but a slightly larger hotspot,
whereas the other unit has a slightly larger corona but a slightly smaller hotspot. (Tried to take picture of it, but my camera is unable to capture it properly; although this can be observed with the naked eye when I point the 2 units on the ceiling, at slightly lower brightness levels so it’s not too glaring)

Any idea, which one of them will have a farther beam distance? (hard to tell just by doing side-by-side naked eye observation)

Thus: is the one with the smaller hotspot more throwy or the one with the larger hotspot more throwy?
(conventional thinking indicates smaller hotspot likely a bit more throwy, but in this case, it seems that having a (just slightly) larger hotspot might result in slightly more throw = which seems to match what you stated)

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If you get a running start you can throw the S2+ a good distance.

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