$1 Budget Beamer Beaters

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nottawhackjob
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Unheard wrote:
nottawhackjob wrote:
Ya talk like yer giving an accurate assessment of its TCR performance.

Where? I said nothing about this light, at least, I didn’t meant to. Sorry if any of my postings were confusing.

What is it good for in this context in the first place? You already named sunlight as your reference. Now you exclude users from this discussion if they don’t own this budget light. Is that reasonable? Thus far, I seem to be the only one taking you half-serious, so be kind please Big Smile .

About your experience with the XM-L: I agree that LEDs from the post angry-blue era are very convincing. I even like to take something like a CW XHP70 light with me, and it’s fully sufficient to tell blue from green from red.

Quote:
Don’t twist things back to me.

But I do. And if you refuse to invest some time to investigate your own idea, why should anyone else? Do yourself a favour and let your TCR standard shine onto your hands. Then do the same under sunlight. I have never seen this this light, but I bet you’ll have to subtract some points.

@kennybobby, sorry for OT. If it’s not ok, I’ll delete my postings.

Well ya see that’s why it has a TCR of 10. I saw (and so did others) that it had no discernable TCR flaws. I bought 6 of them. All equally consistent. I’m gonna buy prolly at least 25 more for gifts etc. I will TCR test them before I hand them out.

Butt at the end of the day nothing will replace YOU getting one and then testing it yourself and reporting back to us. Please dissect it with at least one in hand. If more agree with you than with me then I will have to reconsider it as a TCR standard. Grad

PS. Btw, there eventually may be other TCR Reference Standards added to a running list. For example, Snakebit’s 9 led E-bay flash could and probably should be included. He seems to know watt he’s talking about here so maybe I should just defacto use it as another TCR Reference Standard sight unseen. I don’t know exactly which E-bay flash he’s referring to unfortunately. He may have a problem with that though as it appears the OT 50L is barely in its league at the moment. LOL

“In many things in order to truly understand the small picture you have to understand the big picture first.”

True Color Rendition (TCR)/Simplified Definition: “On a scale of 1 to 10, with 10 being the highest rating, a TCR will equate to what true colors you see in sunlight vs the same object’s colors you see when illuminated with a flashlight. The closer the two are, the higher the TCR rating will be.”

The TCR Reference Standard is the Walmart Ozark Trail OT 50L , Model No. 6103.
It has a TCR rating of ‘10’. $1.00 including batteries.

Unheard
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nottawhackjob wrote:

Well ya see that’s why it has a TCR of 10.

Then it’s a nice find.

nottawhackjob wrote:

Butt at the end of the day nothing will replace you getting one and then testing it yourself and reporting back to us.

I’d love to, but there’s no source for it where I live.

Smile, you cannot kill them all.

nottawhackjob
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Unheard wrote:
nottawhackjob wrote:

Well ya see that’s why it has a TCR of 10.

Then it’s a nice find.
nottawhackjob wrote:
Butt at the end of the day nothing will replace you getting one and then testing it yourself and reporting back to us.
I’d love to, but there’s no source for it where I live.

Oh, that sux. Ya should have more than one in any case. Hmmmm. Anybody willing to make a special fly over to Germany? LOL Thumbs Up Shocked

“In many things in order to truly understand the small picture you have to understand the big picture first.”

True Color Rendition (TCR)/Simplified Definition: “On a scale of 1 to 10, with 10 being the highest rating, a TCR will equate to what true colors you see in sunlight vs the same object’s colors you see when illuminated with a flashlight. The closer the two are, the higher the TCR rating will be.”

The TCR Reference Standard is the Walmart Ozark Trail OT 50L , Model No. 6103.
It has a TCR rating of ‘10’. $1.00 including batteries.

Scotty321
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I bought 4 of these OT 50l lights and a 1xD cell Eveready just to see. The OT’s all have a blue tint. The Eveready seems slightly warm in comparison to the OT’s. Nice clean hotspot on the OT’s though, while the Eveready has the crystal lattice look. Additionally, the first light I tested the batteries ran out in about 20 seconds. They all had protective film so I’m sure it was probably on the shelf for a long time before I grabbed that particular one.

nottawhackjob
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Scotty321 wrote:
I bought 4 of these OT 50l lights and a 1xD cell Eveready just to see. The OT’s all have a blue tint. The Eveready seems slightly warm in comparison to the OT’s. Nice clean hotspot on the OT’s though, while the Eveready has the crystal lattice look. Additionally, the first light I tested the batteries ran out in about 20 seconds. They all had protective film so I’m sure it was probably on the shelf for a long time before I grabbed that particular one.

Blue tint then affected TCR?

“In many things in order to truly understand the small picture you have to understand the big picture first.”

True Color Rendition (TCR)/Simplified Definition: “On a scale of 1 to 10, with 10 being the highest rating, a TCR will equate to what true colors you see in sunlight vs the same object’s colors you see when illuminated with a flashlight. The closer the two are, the higher the TCR rating will be.”

The TCR Reference Standard is the Walmart Ozark Trail OT 50L , Model No. 6103.
It has a TCR rating of ‘10’. $1.00 including batteries.

Lightbringer
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nottawhackjob wrote:
Unheard wrote:
nottawhackjob wrote:
Butt at the end of the day nothing will replace you getting one and then testing it yourself and reporting back to us.
I’d love to, but there’s no source for it where I live.
Oh, that sux. Ya should have more than one in any case. Hmmmm. Anybody willing to make a special fly over to Germany? LOL Thumbs Up Shocked

I can confirm, they used to do that all the time on “Hogan’s Heroes”.

Just blink a flashlight at the approaching plane a few times, and they’ll drop it right to ya.

09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0

nottawhackjob
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snakebite wrote:
https://budgetlightforum.com/node/43872

No offence butt this is like comparing apples to walnuts. They both fall outta trees butt practicality-wise that’s about it. LOL Those 5mm’s would have to be assembled into something similar in reflector design, output, beam pattern, beam concentration, etc., to the OT 50L. Not really practical for most.

Yet if they’re in photo panels who can argue with that? I can’t. So you’re prolly right, they are likely CRI/TCR technically better than the OT 50L’s. Are they that discernably better walking around looking at a myriad of objects at night? IDK. I and others are happy with the TCR we see though. May not be good enuff for you though. I can see why. Butt that’s yer perogative.

Yet convenience of the OT 50L Walmart availability ‘outshine’s’ this hassle. As you say, it’s usable. I and others say it’s plenty usable enuff for these purposes. In this case practical too.

For $1.00 who can argue with that premise?

Ya gotta start somewhere. So I did. Hope others do too. LOL

“In many things in order to truly understand the small picture you have to understand the big picture first.”

True Color Rendition (TCR)/Simplified Definition: “On a scale of 1 to 10, with 10 being the highest rating, a TCR will equate to what true colors you see in sunlight vs the same object’s colors you see when illuminated with a flashlight. The closer the two are, the higher the TCR rating will be.”

The TCR Reference Standard is the Walmart Ozark Trail OT 50L , Model No. 6103.
It has a TCR rating of ‘10’. $1.00 including batteries.

snakebite
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I have 4 and they all have different tints.
This is expected.
And as far as this tcr thing where did that come from?
Its no industry standard i have heard of.

nottawhackjob
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snakebite wrote:
I have 4 and they all have different tints. This is expected. And as far as this tcr thing where did that come from? Its no industry standard i have heard of.

Yer not going to either. I invented it. TCR. True Color Rendition. In my too lengthy temporary signature. LOL

PS. In effect, a stretched derivative of this…………………………..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kruithof_curve

PSS. Unabashedly subjective. Reasonably more supportable by consensus. Better than just relying on CRI when making a purchase if possible. Nonetheless CRI without any TCR inputs is where ya should start. Best said, TCR is most useful when combined with CRI numbers. To wit, “Trust butt verify”. LOL

“In many things in order to truly understand the small picture you have to understand the big picture first.”

True Color Rendition (TCR)/Simplified Definition: “On a scale of 1 to 10, with 10 being the highest rating, a TCR will equate to what true colors you see in sunlight vs the same object’s colors you see when illuminated with a flashlight. The closer the two are, the higher the TCR rating will be.”

The TCR Reference Standard is the Walmart Ozark Trail OT 50L , Model No. 6103.
It has a TCR rating of ‘10’. $1.00 including batteries.

Scotty321
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I didn’t test it out with other lights, but here’s a quick pic with my cell phone camera on manual with WB set to 4400K. I don’t know if TCR is better than my other flashlights, but I do notice a blue tint. Left to right, sunlight, AB Nichia 219C, OT 50L:

Unheard
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Thanks, Scotty. Even if I view the rightmost picture isolated and let my eyes adapt to it (the blueish background then becomes almost grey after some seconds), the yellow part of the package is still green. Not so nice. Maybe it’s just the picture and it looks better by eye?

Smile, you cannot kill them all.

nottawhackjob
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Scotty321 wrote:
I didn’t test it out with other lights, but here’s a quick pic with my cell phone camera on manual with WB set to 4400K. I don’t know if TCR is better than my other flashlights, but I do notice a blue tint. Left to right, sunlight, AB Nichia 219C, OT 50L:

!https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/raQ-kSf9l1rrJR17CjTvbcFoXwGAkvh1265pL2...!

There’s a pretty extreme disparity here. Just on the concrete colors between the Nichia and the OT 50L. Shocked I’m not buying it. I think it’s maybe yer phone’s camera not rendering watt is there accurately vs sunlight. Or the flashlights are being held too closely to the object basically overriding TCR. Looking at the upper left corner glare in the Nichia for example.

Then there’s the different surfaces. The sunlit box is on something different than the Nichia and the OT 50L. Then the sunlit box almost appears to be on polished stone/concrete if not mistaken.

“In many things in order to truly understand the small picture you have to understand the big picture first.”

True Color Rendition (TCR)/Simplified Definition: “On a scale of 1 to 10, with 10 being the highest rating, a TCR will equate to what true colors you see in sunlight vs the same object’s colors you see when illuminated with a flashlight. The closer the two are, the higher the TCR rating will be.”

The TCR Reference Standard is the Walmart Ozark Trail OT 50L , Model No. 6103.
It has a TCR rating of ‘10’. $1.00 including batteries.

kennybobby
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That’s an interesting color test.

The blue in the upper right corner of all 3 appear more similar than the blue in the lower left corners with variations across the span.

Now i used to think that i was cool,
drivin' around on fossil fuel,
until i saw what i was doin',
was drivin' down the road to ruin. --JT

nottawhackjob
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kennybobby wrote:
That’s an interesting color test.

The blue in the upper right corner of all 3 appear more similar than the blue in the lower left corners with variations across the span.

Yeah. Great observation. I think there may be an ‘imbalance’ going on here.

“In many things in order to truly understand the small picture you have to understand the big picture first.”

True Color Rendition (TCR)/Simplified Definition: “On a scale of 1 to 10, with 10 being the highest rating, a TCR will equate to what true colors you see in sunlight vs the same object’s colors you see when illuminated with a flashlight. The closer the two are, the higher the TCR rating will be.”

The TCR Reference Standard is the Walmart Ozark Trail OT 50L , Model No. 6103.
It has a TCR rating of ‘10’. $1.00 including batteries.

Scotty321
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I apologize, as I’m not familiar with the proper setup for beamshots. I thought I’d just do a quick pic to demonstrate that there is a noticeable difference. You all are right about the closeness, I was about 4 feet away at an angle of about 45 degrees, and the OT has a tight hot spot so I was using the spill, and the AB has a very wide hot spot which is probably adding to the issues. However, the difference is similar to what I observe in person between the two flashlights… with the box and the OT, the yellow is greener, the orange is more washed out, and the redish/muave looks more like a purplish/mauve just like in the photo.

For the record, the tint is similar to the first OT I tried with the almost dead batteries. I fried that one seeing if it would work with an 18650 so the pics are from the second of the four I purchased. I think it might have been a short due to the long spring under greater compression with the 18650 (and maybe the outer metal ring on the circuit board). Noob move, I know.

The sunlight was in my driveway, and the flashlight pics were in the garage. The color difference of the cement in the garage is similar to what I see with the naked eye between the two flashlights. For me, the yellow’s greenish tint with the OT is apparent by eye, too.

Although I won’t take a pic, sometimes I compare beam profiles and colors in my bedroom where I have a dark blue, red, and white can of LocTite foam sitting on a dresser. The bluer tinted LED flashlights often turn the dark blue to royal blue and the red tones become less vibrant. I tested all four lights for function and they all had a similar tint.

Edit: AB set to Low (50 lumen).

Unheard
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The sunlight is parallel, hence no variation across the box.

Smile, you cannot kill them all.

nottawhackjob
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Scotty321 wrote:
I apologize, as I’m not familiar with the proper setup for beamshots. I thought I’d just do a quick pic to demonstrate that there is a noticeable difference. You all are right about the closeness, I was about 4 feet away at an angle of about 45 degrees, and the OT has a tight hot spot so I was using the spill, and the AB has a very wide hot spot which is probably adding to the issues. However, the difference is similar to what I observe in person between the two flashlights… with the box and the OT, the yellow is greener, the orange is more washed out, and the redish/muave looks more like a purplish/mauve just like in the photo.

For the record, the tint is similar to the first OT I tried with the almost dead batteries. I fried that one seeing if it would work with an 18650 so the pics are from the second of the four I purchased. I think it might have been a short due to the long spring under greater compression with the 18650 (and maybe the outer metal ring on the circuit board). Noob move, I know.

The sunlight was in my driveway, and the flashlight pics were in the garage. The color difference of the cement in the garage is similar to what I see with the naked eye between the two flashlights. For me, the yellow’s greenish tint with the OT is apparent by eye, too.

Although I won’t take a pic, sometimes I compare beam profiles and colors in my bedroom where I have a dark blue, red, and white can of LocTite foam sitting on a dresser. The bluer tinted LED flashlights often turn the dark blue to royal blue and the red tones become less vibrant. I tested all four lights for function and they all had a similar tint.

Ok lemme get this straight. Is the TCR of the garage concrete in the Nichia shot, brown or grey?

“In many things in order to truly understand the small picture you have to understand the big picture first.”

True Color Rendition (TCR)/Simplified Definition: “On a scale of 1 to 10, with 10 being the highest rating, a TCR will equate to what true colors you see in sunlight vs the same object’s colors you see when illuminated with a flashlight. The closer the two are, the higher the TCR rating will be.”

The TCR Reference Standard is the Walmart Ozark Trail OT 50L , Model No. 6103.
It has a TCR rating of ‘10’. $1.00 including batteries.

kennybobby
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Unheard wrote:
The sunlight is parallel, hence no variation across the box.

Thank you, that makes sense.

@Scotty, no problem i’m glad you posted the color test. You could see a difference with your eyes and that is what matters, and it agrees with snakebite saying it has a blue tint.

i’ll try several different OTs to see if i can find variations. i can easily tell when there is excess yellow tint, but not experienced or seen enough to know much on blue tint

Now i used to think that i was cool,
drivin' around on fossil fuel,
until i saw what i was doin',
was drivin' down the road to ruin. --JT

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I recommend setting white balance to automatic, so the camera may do what our eyes do.

Smile, you cannot kill them all.

Scotty321
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Hmmm… that’s a little complicated. The garage floor is tan, but that area has a lot of dirt and salt residue that has turned it more greyish.

If I were to describe the color of the garage floor with sunlight, where I took the pic is about between the tan and grey you see on the AB and OT lights. If I remember tomorrow morning I’ll take a pic. The garage faces NE.

Edit: OK I’m having a technical issue. The grey is changing in my garage floor shots even though I’m using the same settings… I’ll try redoing all of the pics tomorrow morning if I have time.

Edit 2: Reposting the image I accidentally deleted when making the last edit:

nottawhackjob
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This looks to me like the tint of the Nichia has turned the concrete into a TCR that doesn’t exist. I mean that’s basically brown. As I suspected the OT’s TCR in the concrete’s case from watt you’re describing is clearly more accurate as viewed out of the shadows.

PS. The slight blue tint is not necessarily bad as sunlight/daylight itself has a blue cast. Said a different way, warmer lights have more of a yellow cast/tone to them, whereas a cooler light which equates to sunlight/daylight appears slightly more bluish. Yellowish tints tend to skew TCR negatively. That’s why essentially the OT 50L works as well as it does. It is a ‘cooler flash’. Both literally and figuratively. LOL

And why when it comes to TCR you should try one. Wink

“In many things in order to truly understand the small picture you have to understand the big picture first.”

True Color Rendition (TCR)/Simplified Definition: “On a scale of 1 to 10, with 10 being the highest rating, a TCR will equate to what true colors you see in sunlight vs the same object’s colors you see when illuminated with a flashlight. The closer the two are, the higher the TCR rating will be.”

The TCR Reference Standard is the Walmart Ozark Trail OT 50L , Model No. 6103.
It has a TCR rating of ‘10’. $1.00 including batteries.

Scotty321
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BTW, I have an old DSLR I haven’t used for probably 10 years. If you guys have any setting suggestions I could try to use that instead of my phone. If I have time and it’s not cloudy out sometime over the next few days I’ll redo the shots.

Unheard
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… and I was told taking pictures of prints is not the best idea. Guess it was about the limited colors, basically CMYK.

So, shooting e.g. flowers with AWB might give the most complete and accurate basis for a comparison.

Smile, you cannot kill them all.

Scotty321
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nottawhackjob wrote:
This looks to me like the tint of the Nichia has turned the concrete into a TCR that doesn’t exist. I mean that’s basically brown. As I suspected the OT’s TCR in the concrete’s case from watt you’re describing is clearly more accurate as viewed out of the shadows.

PS. The slight blue tint is not necessarily bad as sunlight/daylight itself has a blue cast. Whereas yellowish tints tend to skew TCR negatively. That’s why essentially the OT 50L works as well as it does.

If I remember, when I retake the shots I’ll bring down my old Brinkman incan and compare. I remember checking the AB w/Nichia 219C against the old Brinkmann and was surprised at the noticeable difference.

Scotty321
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I’ll see what I can do. IIRC, most of the flowers on our property bloom in the beginning of the Spring, and it’s in the middle of summer now.

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Worst of both worlds.
An individual set of eyeballs and a cellphone camera.
Both are horribly inaccurate.

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This shows how little difference there is to the adapted eye on a limited set of colors:


Top is SST-20 4000K

Bottom is XP-L Hi slightly below 6000K (sorry for PWM)

As in your pictures, Scotty, the yellow is bad under low CRI light. The topmost image is closest to what I see on paper under sunlight.

Smile, you cannot kill them all.

Scotty321
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OK, so I brought out my old Pentax DSLR, set to manual, and set the aperture and shutter speed. Bad pics and setup I know, but thought I’d post for others’ interest.

I’m not going to continue with this as I only picked up the lights for giveaways for fun or for nonflashlight family/friends that might need one, not to compare with other lights.

The OT is actually pretty good. I’m suprised how bad the incan looks, and the Nichia 219C isn’t the best but it’s what I have. I think my sensitivity to the blue is because my house is filled with cheapo WW LED light bulbs. This really becomes an issue for me when picking out paint colors, as the store’s flourescent lights, outside sunlight, and WW in the rooms means that the paint looks different in house than it does in the store, as well as if the sunlight comes in versus lamp light. Top pics are sunlight, bottom from left to right are: Brinkmann incan, AB w/Nichia 219C (4000 K), OT 50L.

kennybobby
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thank you Scotty, those are some great photos for color comparison and to illustrate the variables involved. Thanks for taking the time to set this up and post it.

What color is the middle spool of thread on the left side in the sewing kit?

Now i used to think that i was cool,
drivin' around on fossil fuel,
until i saw what i was doin',
was drivin' down the road to ruin. --JT

Scotty321
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kennybobby wrote:
thank you Scotty, those are some great photos for color comparison and to illustrate the variables involved. Thanks for taking the time to set this up and post it.

What color is the middle spool of thread on the left side in the sewing kit?

The far left, middle spool is a navy blue, and the bottom row, middle spool is black.

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