Sofirn/Wurkkos - Battery Options

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Funtastic
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Sofirn/Wurkkos - Battery Options

Wurkkos & Sofirn

I wish there was an option on their websites to bundle the flashlights with higher performing batteries.

The bundled batteries are decent, but if a light is advertised at X lumens then I reckon there needs to be a battery available that can meet that spec.

Just have a couple of battery options:

1. higher capacity for longer runtime
2. max output

For example the Wurkkos TS21 comes with a Lishen 9.6A 21700 and even though I reviewed it to be capable of 15A, there’s too much voltage sag for the flashlight to provide the lumen output. It’s only slightly better than a Samsung 50E, not the newer 50E2.

The below graph is of the Lishen 21700 vs the Samsung 40T at 20 Amps to show just how much voltage sag there is in comparison. I’m showing 20 Amps because the TS21 requires a 20A+ battery.

Sofirn builds Wurkkos’ flashlights which is why I tie them both together. They bundle the same batteries.

Piercing The Darkness YouTube channel – https://www.youtube.com/c/PiercingTheDarkness

Edited by: Funtastic on 08/01/2021 - 01:23
Lux-Perpetua
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If I am correctly informed Sofirn might be able to use the Lishen LS2170LA 4000mAh battery anytime soon. Its performance should be close to the Samsung 40T-3. 

Bort
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I am not surprised they would sell batteries that can’t power their own lights properly.

Its an old open secret that Chinese companies build then sell whatever they can get out the door and don’t think through what they are doing, just that product gets built and sent to the buyer.

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Funtastic
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Lux-Perpetua wrote:

If I am correctly informed Sofirn might be able to use the Lishen LS2170LA 4000mAh battery anytime soon. Its performance should be close to the Samsung 40T-3. 

That would be great if that happens. It doesn’t look good for them when the review measurements are way lower than the spec, especially when they say that the same bundled battery was used for the ANSI rating.

Jinba is the company that Sofirn and Yakorsei branch out from and Yakorsei at least did things properly. I reviewed the Yakorsei GD12 and measured 1,608 lumens using the bundled battery, 1,600 was their ANSI spec. I tested also with a 30Q and got over 1,800 lumens. That’s how it should be done

Piercing The Darkness YouTube channel – https://www.youtube.com/c/PiercingTheDarkness

texas shooter
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Luminus SST-20-W 6500K took 4.0 amps to get to 1222 lumens on Maukka’s test. 12 amps to hit their 3600 lumen triple claim. A 12 amp cell would sag too much at its limit. You need 50%-100% over required to smooth out excessive voltage sag and internal resistance. A 15 amp cell would be slightly too weak for proper running, 20 amp perfect. Samsung 40T, Molicell P42A are much better suited with good run times.

Funtastic
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On my review I tested the TS21 and got 14.64A with a P42A with only 3,180 lumens (2,800 at 30 sec). That’s still not at their claimed spec for ANSI. Temp set to 70°C for that 30 sec measurement otherwise it steps down at just 20 seconds

Piercing The Darkness YouTube channel – https://www.youtube.com/c/PiercingTheDarkness

TheIntruder
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In principle, I agree that the bundled batteries should enable the lights to perform according to spec.

In practice, most lay shoppers will just be happy to have a PnP package that they can immediately use, not worry about buying a separate battery, and have no idea what a lumen sphere is.

Those who do, and want full performance will insert another cell from their pool, or skip the bundle to begin with.

Adding another variable to the product mix adds to the potential headaches. But if a more complex product matrix is to be explored, I have little doubt most would vote for more emitter options, or body colors, more inelastic traits that are harder to rectify than simply substituting another cell.

For most products, bundled accessories aren’t usually held to high standards; they just have to provide funcationality. I believe most here know that those bundled cells aren’t great, but at least live up to the capacity ratings, and at a nominal cost, a couple extra quid isn’t such a bad deal to add another decent cell to the arsenal. Going to have to wait a couple weeks for it anyway, and for the small incremental cost, why not? They could be worse.

If there is to be an effort to tackle truth in flashlight marketing, particular with regard to output performance, the bundled cell is not the first place I’d send the troops.

One such fruit ripe for picking is to actually be honest about what Turbo modes are, and how they are constrained. That would benefit all, enthusiasts or not.

There should also be a performance metric for output as it relates to heat capacity, like an HPI, or Heat Performance Index.

But I wouldn’t hold my breath for any of this to occur.

dthrckt
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I bought the ts21 with bundled battery, just because it was like $3, and am using 40ts from illumn.

Happy with the purchase and performance. I need more tir lights.

Funtastic
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dthrckt wrote:
I bought the ts21 with bundled battery, just because it was like $3, and am using 40ts from illumn.

Happy with the purchase and performance. I need more tir lights.

It’s a great light, no complaints there. Just wish the bundled cell was able to get closer to the rating. I get a lot of people commenting on my videos about the Sofirn & Wurkkos batteries looking dim and the question is, is my light faulty because it doesn’t look like X lumens. Got a guy on my TS21 video thinking his light was faulty.

If you want decent runtime it’s a good 5000mAh cell, but forget about good lumen performance

Piercing The Darkness YouTube channel – https://www.youtube.com/c/PiercingTheDarkness

texas shooter
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Funtastic wrote:
On my review I tested the TS21 and got 14.64A with a P42A with only 3,180 lumens (2,800 at 30 sec). That’s still not at their claimed spec for ANSI. Temp set to 70°C for that 30 sec measurement otherwise it steps down at just 20 seconds

What is your opinion here? Battery or flashlight not up to the task or a little of both.

Funtastic
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texas shooter wrote:
Funtastic wrote:
On my review I tested the TS21 and got 14.64A with a P42A with only 3,180 lumens (2,800 at 30 sec). That’s still not at their claimed spec for ANSI. Temp set to 70°C for that 30 sec measurement otherwise it steps down at just 20 seconds

What is your opinion here? Battery or flashlight not up to the task or a little of both.

I only have a PVC tube, a sphere is a little higher result, but still the ratings are too high. It’s not the battery, the ratings are too high on every single new model.

Sofirn used to be very, very close to my readings, within 100 lumens and now it’s a very large margin. I remember when Sofirn first started they had a notice on their AliExpress store stating their aim was to be honest with their lumens. Once they started to become very popular their ratings started to be a little dishonest.

Higher lumens = higher sales. Thankfully it’s not really bad like some brands out their, but still disappointing on some models. For example the Sofirn SP36 Pro rated at 8,000 lumens and Sofirn said it was achieved with their 3,000mAh 18650 batteries which was a complete lie. The Sofirn TF84 with 1,200 lumens only measured roughly 850 lumens both in a tube and sphere

I think the best thing is to always wait for a review before buying a new model, that’s what I started doing awhile ago

Piercing The Darkness YouTube channel – https://www.youtube.com/c/PiercingTheDarkness

dthrckt
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Yeah, they should make every effort to be accurate. If they were, people might not mind the higher capacity lower performance cell.

CR888
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What I don’t like about the Wurkkos/Sofirn cells is that other than mAh capacity they don’t provide and other info on their cells. No max Amps or constant current specs. I’ve been happy with the Wurkkos 5000mah 21700, the Sofirn 4000mah 21700 & 3000mah 18650 but without testing equipment it’s very hard for me to notice performance by eye at night. Especially if you only have one light, by the time you swap cells and turn the light on its very difficult to notice output difference. The cells are so cheap to get when buying the lights it makes sense to get them.

CR888

mortuus
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CR888 wrote:
What I don’t like about the Wurkkos/Sofirn cells is that other than mAh capacity they don’t provide and other info on their cells. No max Amps or constant current specs. I’ve been happy with the Wurkkos 5000mah 21700, the Sofirn 4000mah 21700 & 3000mah 18650 but without testing equipment it’s very hard for me to notice performance by eye at night. Especially if you only have one light, by the time you swap cells and turn the light on its very difficult to notice output difference. The cells are so cheap to get when buying the lights it makes sense to get them.

yeah true.. but i have a wurkkos wk30 not really a highdrain light the bundled 26650 5000mah battery i dont really care the max amps since the light doesnt pull anywhere close to 10 amps on turbo even… but on higher lumens light i can see why this info is needed.

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They include these batteries very cheap tho so it’s a choice to make: when I bought my SP36pro they included these 3 18650’s for just over 4 euro! Last week I ordered a headlamp and the one with the battery was actually cheaper in the flash-sales than the one without…, only in China, this Big Smile . When I bought my IF25A I knew the offered 21700 wasn’t up to the task so I bought this one without battery and spent some more on a locally bought Samsung 40T, 3x more expensive at 6,95 euro but it’s a hobby, isn’t it!

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Well, bundled batteries are usually okay, but never promise to meet spec, especially in cheaper lights. Case in point, the Sp36 pro; stock cells was only 5800 lumens at start, about 11 amps. I switched to Vtc6, got 18.5 amps and 7100 lumems at start. The DL70 I reviewed with included 26650 cells did fine. The 3 Ah 18650s included with Sofirn lights are not the greatest, but meant to get you by as a start up kit.

CR888
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Kwispelhond wrote:
They include these batteries very cheap tho so it’s a choice to make: when I bought my SP36pro they included these 3 18650’s for just over 4 euro! Last week I ordered a headlamp and the one with the battery was actually cheaper in the flash-sales than the one without…, only in China, this Big Smile . When I bought my IF25A I knew the offered 21700 wasn’t up to the task so I bought this one without battery and spent some more on a locally bought Samsung 40T, 3x more expensive at 6,95 euro but it’s a hobby, isn’t it!

Sure I see what your saying but it doesn’t excuse them from providing basic info on their cells. Other quality brands do and/or have the information easily availible.

CR888

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Funtastic wrote:
Lux-Perpetua wrote:

If I am correctly informed Sofirn might be able to use the Lishen LS2170LA 4000mAh battery anytime soon. Its performance should be close to the Samsung 40T-3. 

That would be great if that happens. It doesn’t look good for them when the review measurements are way lower than the spec, especially when they say that the same bundled battery was used for the ANSI rating.

Jinba is the company that Sofirn and Yakorsei branch out from and Yakorsei at least did things properly. I reviewed the Yakorsei GD12 and measured 1,608 lumens using the bundled battery, 1,600 was their ANSI spec. I tested also with a 30Q and got over 1,800 lumens. That’s how it should be done


we have already ordered some Lishen LS2170LA 4000mAh battery and waiting for arrival
dthrckt
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Wurkkos wrote:
we have already ordered some Lishen LS2170LA 4000mAh battery and waiting for arrival

Maybe OP is not asking you to change the battery offered, but to show tests with high capacity and high drain cells.

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Anyone notice recent come-with batteries are… “less than advertised”?

I suspect that wherever light mfrs are getting their cells, those places are cutting corners. 3 cells, 3 mfrs, 3 LTA spex.

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Lightbringer wrote:
Anyone notice recent come-with batteries are… “less than advertised”?

I suspect that wherever light mfrs are getting their cells, those places are cutting corners. 3 cells, 3 mfrs, 3 LTA spex.


Its called Quality Fade Sad

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I heard back from one mfr, and yeah, they were being cheated so are moving to a different supplier.

First was an Anekim 18650, 3000mAH, that clocked in (see my UC20 review) between 2300 and 2400 instead.

Just this weekend, I got a Wurkkos 21700, 5000mAH, that clocked in at around 4600 and change instead. Looked twice to make sure it wasn’t supposed to be a 4000mAH instead… nope, 5000mAH.

And a Sofirn 16340, 800mAH, that only clocked in at 460-470 (ran it twice, exact match for both runs!). Yeah, little more than half the capacity.

 

Okayokayokay, could my Ope be going mental on me? Stuck in one of my reliable 30Qs (3000mAH, of course), and it clocked in at 3040 or so. Definitely not the Ope reading low.

 

Before, every single Sofirn/Wurkkos cell I got, clocked in at pretty much exactly the rated spex, never even had to think about it. Wondering if they all share the same supplier who’s playing games with them all. If so, they gotta dump that supplier before they get burned as far as reputation.

(Wondering if Fun’s rusty cells could be related to this, and be from the same supplier.)

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Lightbringer wrote:
(...) Wondering if they all share the same supplier who's playing games with them all. If so, they gotta dump that supplier before they get burned as far as reputation. (Wondering if Fun's rusty cells could be related to this, and be from the same supplier.)

I doubt that. Sofirn/Wurkkos get most of their 21700 batteries from Lishen, 18650 batteries from DLG. Some of their latest 26650s come from PLB. It is very unlikely that all these battery manufacturers have started some conspiracy against flashlight manufacturers. What I see over here happening is:

  • battery shortage is getting more serious day by day
  • demand on the other side is rising (EVs, notebooks, power tools, ...)
  • more and more fake or grade B cells showing up, even sold from trustworthy retailers (by accident I suppose)

My assumption is that not only Samsung, LG Chemicals, Sanyo/Panasonic, Sony/Murata but also Lishen or Molicel have to deal with huge demands and limited stock availability. Top grade cells will most likely be sold to EV manufacturers who buy high volume lots, being considered as premium customers. The flashlight/vaper market is insignificantly small in comparison.

CR888
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Lots of sad truths in that post above from lux-P. I don’t have a discharge function on my Nitecore charger but it does measure how many mAh goes into each cell. The other day I ran 4 Sofirn 18659 3000mah cells down to 2.9v (I was using an MF01S as a lantern) & when fully charged at 4.25v they recorded high 2900’s some over 3000. I don’t know that my $35 Nitecore charger is a benchmark of accuracy though.

CR888

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CR888 wrote:
Lots of sad truths in that post above from lux-P. I don’t have a discharge function on my Nitecore charger but it does measure how many mAh goes into each cell. The other day I ran 4 Sofirn 18659 3000mah cells down to 2.9v (I was using an MF01S as a lantern) & when fully charged at 4.25v they recorded high 2900’s some over 3000. I don’t know that my $35 Nitecore charger is a benchmark of accuracy though.

I had an issue with one of the 26650 cells included with the DL70 I reviewed. Aside from being advertised as 5000 mAh cells and testing as 5500 mAh cells, one cell probably had high internal resistance and sagged faster than the other (the DL70 is 2S). After the runtime tests, one cell was still over 3.2 volts but the other was discharged really deep, like under 2.6 volts (it gradually went back up to 2.8 volts though after resting a few minutes).

Is this a sign of mismatching cells from different productuon runs and quality? Maybe, but with the battery situation in China like it is, hard to speculate we will see more of this.

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I will test my sofirn cells, when my 2nd order arrives. I have bt-c3100s. That will span 26650s (dl70) 21700 (ts21) and a couple 18650s on the way.

I wonder how they bundle cells, probably as needed, first in first out?