Interest check: Optisolis (98cri) triple s2+

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PyriteParachute
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Interest check: Optisolis (98cri) triple s2+

I’m about to order parts for a build I’ve had I mind for a while. Nichia Optisolis (98 cri) triple run at 2 amps.
https://budgetlightforum.com/node/60236

Host will be $10, spacer will be $5-10, depending on aluminum or copper. Mpcb, led, and optics are another $10. Non-default driver another $5-10 if I decide to use one. So $25-30 just for parts. Another $10 for shipping. I considered the Jaxman e2l, but it would be as much, if not more expensive.

So I’d have to sell these for $40-55 dollars, depending on if I want to make money on these or just break even. More for a nicer driver and lighted switch.

Does this sound interesting to anyone?

Hosts will be gray blems from Convoy, will include original LED and reflectors. I’m wanting to make at least 10, 2 of each tint, ranging from 3000-6500k. Frosted Carclo optics will be used, plus dc-fix film if needed.

Will most likely be using the default 3/5 mode driver, but am willing to hear arguments for something cheap, constant current, and works with a lighted switch, if you can find it Smile MTN has a 2a single mode buck driver, but I’m guessing most would trade no pwm for modes.

Update: Hosts, optics, mpcb, spacers have been ordered. Holding off on LEDs to order tints according to interest. 15 will be made, then I’ll decide on the next host based on feedback. I’m leaning toward the Jetbeam Rrt01, as they are easy to source, and top out at 3 amps.

Interest list so far:

8 pieces for Reddit and one maybe

middle age man – wants cc driver and 4000k or rrt01 2019 mod
Scotty321 – 5000k and driver request
mattlward – 4000 or 5000k
buck91 – awaiting build details
malkoff junkie – 5700k* or 6500k
lordlupulin – 3000k and 4000k

above are the first 15

TheNetRanger – unspecified

Edited by: PyriteParachute on 09/12/2021 - 11:16
Sunnysunsun
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I’m not so sure the Optisolis is a good choice. According to the testing, it peaks at about 200mA. Why not use the E21A instead which peaks closer to 2A each?

According to Clemence’s tests, the 4000K are 98/98 cri/r9

PyriteParachute
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Here are two tests that go past an amp:

https://budgetlightforum.com/node/61130
https://budgetlightforum.com/node/59478

I was intrigued by the flat-looking spectrum (with low blue spike) and very high color metrics. Also, e21 lights are becoming more available from Emisar and Fireflies.

Sunnysunsun
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PyriteParachute wrote:
Here are two tests that go past an amp:

https://budgetlightforum.com/node/61130
https://budgetlightforum.com/node/59478

I was intrigued by the flat-looking spectrum (with low blue spike) and very high color metrics. Also, e21 lights are becoming more available from Emisar and Fireflies.

Interesting, I wasn’t aware of the ability to drive them at 1A but that’s under ideal conditions with good heat sinking.
Driving 3 of them at 2A total might be doable, but for short bursts as your heat sinking heats up.

If you look at Clemence’s page, you’ll see that lower kelvin E21As also have pretty flat curves without the blue spikes.
The blue spikes are not very substantial in my opinion since our eyes are not very sensitive to blue light.

The E21A is popular because it can be driven relatively hard while having very high cri and an excellent spectrum.
Being different does not necessarily mean better. Wouldn’t you rather have the ability to have twice the brightness and more flexibility for driver options?

On another front, I try to consider the alternatives on the market when I consider making lights to sell. I understand that some people are willing to pay more for more unique stuff.
Take the D4V2 which can be had in E21A for $50 shipped. It has rgb aux and runs anduril.

PyriteParachute
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I agree that the e21a is good, but I’ve seen measurements for it around 93-95 cri, as opposed to 97-99 for the Optisolis. I haven’t seen the e21a’s TM-30 figure, but I imagine the difference is even greater. Anyway, I’m curious to see if there is that difference in real life.

https://budgetlightforum.com/node/68992

Also, with 6 AMC 7135 chips, the thermals of the body will be more of a limit than the max current. I’ve heard that you can just desolder chips from the board to lower the current?

NeutralFan
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I’ve built 3 triple Optisolis Convoy S2+s (4000K, 5000K, and 6500K) using the Convoy 2.1 amp driver and haven’t had an issue with them on high. They will slowly get hot, just like any other moderately driven flashlight on high, but not excessively hot.

If you want the highest CRI LED flashlights, then Optisolis is your best choice. So I can see the appeal of PyriteParachute offering to make these for the BLF community.

I’d rather use my flashlight around the house than turn on the lights.

nobody
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NeutralFan wrote:
I've built 3 triple Optisolis Convoy S2+s (4000K, 5000K, and 6500K) using the "Convoy 2.1 amp driver":https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32734523412.html?pdp_ext_f=%7B%22sku_id%... and haven't had an issue with them on high. They will slowly get hot, just like any other moderately driven flashlight on high, but not excessively hot. If you want the highest CRI LED flashlights, then Optisolis is your best choice. So I can see the appeal of PyriteParachute offering to make these for the BLF community.
Did you need to use the frosted lens or any DC-Fix?
Sunnysunsun
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NeutralFan wrote:
I’ve built 3 triple Optisolis Convoy S2+s (4000K, 5000K, and 6500K) using the Convoy 2.1 amp driver and haven’t had an issue with them on high. They will slowly get hot, just like any other moderately driven flashlight on high, but not excessively hot.

If you want the highest CRI LED flashlights, then Optisolis is your best choice. So I can see the appeal of PyriteParachute offering to make these for the BLF community.

Highest CRI on paper perhaps but realistically would anyone be able to tell?

Is it possible to tell the difference between 70 cri and 90 cri? Yes.
80 cri vs 90 cri? Perhaps if you spend a lot of time observing them.
90 vs 95cri? You probably wouldn’t really be able to identify which is which most of the time.
95 vs 98 cri? I’d be willing to bet that all else being equal, the two would be indiscernible to our eyes.
You’d need special measuring equipment to be able to measure an on paper increase in cri of 3.

I suspect you’d be able to sell a few of these on blf, maybe even a handful, but ultimately they’d be chasing an on paper numbers game unless the tint is particularly good.

I am sorry that I have been particularly negative towards your idea. It’s always good to have people create new things and to share them with the community. I really appreciate you for bringing this idea to us. I may very well be wrong, but I just don’t think this will be a popular choice compared to the alternatives already available on the market.

I would be very happy if you prove me wrong and this turns out to be a flipping success. Personally I just don’t it as very appealing, though others definitely do have different desires in a flashlight.

PyriteParachute
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Don’t worry about it. I’ve passed my lumen chasing phase and am now after cri/tm-30 (short of going incandescent!) I could probably scoff at folks paying twice the money for 15% extra throw or whatnot, but once something is important, even diminishing returns are interesting.

My goal is to try the various high cri emitters to build a mobile video kit. Video lighting now is nice, but heavy and expensive. I think a good flashlight plus some kind of small softbox opens up a lot of locations due to the cut weight.

I’ll admit the difference between Nichia 219b and sst-20 isn’t huge, but it’s there. So will this pan out? Will these new emitters give a noticeable color rendering improvement? I just ordered 15 hosts. There’s only one way to find out Smile

Sunnysunsun
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PyriteParachute wrote:
Don’t worry about it. I’ve passed my lumen chasing phase and am now after cri/tm-30 (short of going incandescent!) I could probably scoff at folks paying twice the money for 15% extra throw or whatnot, but once something is important, even diminishing returns are interesting.

My goal is to try the various high cri emitters to build a mobile video kit. Video lighting now is nice, but heavy and expensive. I think a good flashlight plus some kind of small softbox opens up a lot of locations due to the cut weight.

I’ll admit the difference between Nichia 219b and sst-20 isn’t huge, but it’s there. So will this pan out? Will these new emitters give a noticeable color rendering improvement? I just ordered 15 hosts. There’s only one way to find out Smile

For video lighting you’ll definitely want one of convoy’s constant current drivers instead of the 7135 ones. You just have to change the sense resistor to a higher resistance one to get a lower current.

7135 drivers will give you pwm and possibly flickering. The good thing about 15 hosts is that you can turn them into anything Smile

How much did each host end up costing?

PyriteParachute
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The video light stuff is later, need to get these lights working first.

About $11 each.

middle age man
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I would be interested in 4000k with a constant current or perhaps the single mode buck driver.

PyriteParachute
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Got it. The closest one with I’ve found is the Convoy sst40 driver with a swapped current sense resistor. I’m not willing to run that experiment on this first batch.

Mtn also sells a $20 guppy drv driver that should work.
https://www.mtnelectronics.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=67&p...

Kaidomain also has this: http://kaidomain.com/BD39-17mm-2200mA-3V-9V-1-cell-or-2-cells-Buck-Drive... driver

I’ll keep looking.

NeutralFan
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Sunnysunsun wrote:
Highest CRI on paper perhaps but realistically would anyone be able to tell?

When I use my 6500K Optisolis S2+ (which is essentially pure white), it’s amazing how the colors come out when I walk around the house. I think it’s due to the lack of yellow in the CCT that makes the colors even more noticeable. None of my other flashlights do that to that extent, including my quad E17A and 219B flashlights. It just doesn’t seem feasible that such a high CCT can bring out the colors vs dulling them like what usually happens with high lumens high CCT LEDs.

But you do make a good point that when it comes to high vs ultra high CRI, it may be hard to notice a difference. It may then come down to tint and how the LED is installed in the flashlight that make the LED more favorable vs higher CRI. But for me, I like knowing that I have the highest CRI LEDs available in 3 of my flashlights.

I’d rather use my flashlight around the house than turn on the lights.

PyriteParachute
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I just got in a c8+ with sst20 2700k. Yes temp and tint make a huge difference. Difference types of brown become really easy to distinguish, but whites and yellows blend together. I can only imagine how nice the 5000 and 6500k optisolis will be.

PyriteParachute
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BTW, what host did you use for the e17a quad? And you used the clemence board? Mulling a build with the broad-spectrum red emitters.

NeutralFan
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Here are the hosts (all Convoys) that I’ve used with the quad E17As: S2, S2+, S3, S5, S6, S8, and M1.

The quad E17As are quite special due to their nice tint, high CRI, and good output. Plus you can mix and match them to create your own tint/CCT if you want. But they are a little difficult to install.

And yes, they’re all on the Clemence VR16SP4 board.

I’d rather use my flashlight around the house than turn on the lights.

buck91
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I’d throw my name on the interest list but I want to see what the final configuration will be before committing. Both the E2L and S2+ are excellent hosts. My preference would be for a good low mode (1-5lm), a good high mode (approx 1hr runtime) and either a very high PWM or constant current.

Scotty321
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Interested…

I don’t know if it’s possible, but I was hoping to get a flashlight around 5700K, but would probably be happy with anything in the 4000-6000 range.

mattlward
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I am unable to reflow leds right now, might be down for one in 4000k or 5000k.

EDC rotation:
FW1A, LH351D 4000k (second favorite)
FW3A, LH351D 3500k
FW3A, SST20 FD2 4000k
FW3A, Nichia 4000k sw40 r9080 (favorite light!)
FW3A, Cree XP-L Hi 5A3
Emisar D4V2, SST20 4000k
S2+, XM-L2 T6 4C

g_damian
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I modded D4 with quad Optisolis

Now D4 is $45 (maybe without leds it’d be cheaper), I don’t remember if you have to pay extra for KR4 driver. Optisolis quad board is around $5. So that’s $10 more than S2 triple.

What do you think?

PyriteParachute
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Re: buck91
S2+ hosts ordered. Aiming to use default driver on most of them.

This nice writeup shows 4.5 kHz pwm, should be fine. Low mode is 30-40 lumens, which is much higher than requested. Runtime is fine but unregulated. https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/convoy-s2-measurements-7135-8-...

The kaidomain board has the same modes, just constant current. Moonlight special driver is out of stock. I checked the forum sticky for known good drivers, but most links were broken. Best I can offer is the 20+$5 shipping guppy driver which does have moonlight. That brings price from 50->75 dollars, which is too much for an s2+. Edit: found a qlite driver with guppy for 5usd

So I have another idea. My next round was going to use Jetbeam rrt01 2020 version as hosts. I can source a few now. 2.65-3amp depending on battery. No pwm. Good, but unregulated runtime. The lowest modes I’ve seen (use one on my nightstand). Sometimes it displays a barely perceptibe ripple/flicker on extreme lows, but turning on and off gets rid of it. If you don’t mind waiting on me to get the build details figured out, I can do one for 65(host)+10(optic/led/pcb)+10(shipping)+10(profit)=95 usd

PyriteParachute
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Re: Scotty 321

5700k is doable with 5000k and 6500k tint mix. I’m not doing d4 or dt8 mods now, if you don’t mind asymmetry, I could do two 5000k and one 6500k, but the front will look funny.

PyriteParachute
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Re: g-damian

Cool build! Appreciate the firmware notes. I got host and spacer for 17 usd, and shipping, labor, and optic/pcb/led together are 30 usd. So 50 for the Convoy, 80 for the d4. Not a bad idea. I’d personally rather do the dt8, more lumens in a similar package.

I currently have 15 triple mpcbs on the way, so I’d need to use those first.

Scotty321
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Re: PyriteParachute

5000K would be fine. Big Smile

PyriteParachute
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Update: finally got the LEDs ordered. Various temps, more than needed, so that I don’t run out in case everyone wants the same.

Have interest for 12 lights, can make 15. In the even that there are too many interested, I’ll handle the requests in the order I received them.

410 usd spent on materials so far, base price for a default 3/5mode driver s2+ is 50 usd, shipped to CONUS. Happy to ship international, so long as buyer covers part of the difference.
If you request another driver, I’ll ask you to pay extra. The driver-swapped builds will be delayed, as I’ll do them last.

Hoping to have these built and sent out by the end of October.

Here are the best drivers I could find:

6 usd: http://kaidomain.com/BD39-17mm-2200mA-3V-9V-1-cell-or-2-cells-Buck-Drive...
Same low-medium-high as the default driver, but no pwm, more efficient.

5 usd plus shipping: https://www.mtnelectronics.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=67&p...
Guppydrv allows for moonlight, but I assume there will be pwm.

11 usd plus shipping: https://led4power.com/product/ld-a4-2-12amp-17mm-constant-current-led-fl...
Linear, not buck driver. No pwm AND moonlight.

20usd plus shipping: https://www.mtnelectronics.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=67&p...
Guppydrv, moonlight and no pwm, may be more efficient than theled4power one.

ma tumba
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What triple mcpcb are you using with optisolii?

PyriteParachute
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staticx57
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PWM is desirable on a very high CRI light as dimming with a constant current driver places the current range in a less than favorable location and often incurs poor tint and cri shift.

Scotty321
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Noob question here (from me)… So are you saying that to get better CRI at lower lumen modes that PWM is preferred? I’m not planning on taking pics or video with this light, so would I be better off looking at the PWM options?

PyriteParachute
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Some LED models like the Luminus sst-20 get green on the lowest outputs. So emulating that brightness with pulses of a higher brightness should be less green. That being said, I don’t know of data that supports lower cri at those low settings. The only time I’ve seen worse cri readings is when the emitter was being overdriven.

Most Nichia LEDs have little, it any tint shift at different outputs.

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