Bicyclists - what did I buy?

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Lightbringer
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jeff51 wrote:
Now we have major traffic. I means your life to ride a bike on any of the bigger streets. Bike lanes be dammed.

When I realised I could take a coupla buses to work vs driving in, I used to joke “15min by car, 1:15 by buses”, but that gap closed a lot.

Extra traffic all times of day or night (eg, coming home after midnight in stop’n‘go traffic?!?) made the trips by car closer to a half-hour or more.

And with the bustime app (best f’n money the MTA ever spent on anything), I could shave off any/all waiting time for the first bus and practically could walk right up to the bus as it’d be pulling into the stop, and bring travel time to about just under an hour if I got lucky.

So that gap closed, by a lot.

I was toying with the idea of taking a bike to work, but the sheer length of the trip and getting sweaty, and potentially getting smeared all over the asphalt by an asshat, all but nixed that idea. An e-bike, maybe, but there was still one stretch where it’s highway or nothing, the nearest way across the GCP/VWP would be a Jewel Ave crossing a few more miles out of my way.

And that’s the main problem, the way these douchebags drive. Bad enough they’ll cream bikers (motor and pedal), but they’re almost exclusively hit’n‘runs. Hell, I got nicked by a huge SUV’s mirror standing on the sidewalk when he came too close and clipped me, that I spun around, had my arm ripped out of my duster’s pocket (ripping said pocket), and ended up on my back staring up at the sky wondering wtf ever happened. He stopped, paused, then took off.

Nope, I’ll stick to “recreational” biking where I can control the time and place and route.

(Oh, a witness got a plate# but was one character off, white sedan, and at my behest, trying a variation like ‘Q’ for ‘O’ turned up a dark SUV pretty much matching what nailed me. Cops said unless I or the witness would be positive, there was nothing they could do. And the SUV was regged to a house on east Lawn Guyland. Pretty coincidental for a statewade search!)

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lampliter
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You might find this interesting—-klein race bike restore

When you're up to your ass in alligators; it's hard to remember your original intention was to drain the swamp.

Vegas LED Fan
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I don’t think you could ride the bike if the chain was installed incorrectly. Here is a picture of a mountain bike with the chain. It comes back from the bottom of the chainring in the front. It goes behind the lower jockey wheel, in front of the upper jockey wheel, and then goes behind the cassette or freewheel. If you use the smallest (inner) chainring in front, and the smallest gear in back (outer) the chain might rub on the frame in front of the rear derailleur but you should not use that combination of gears anyway. It is called cross chaining and you should avoid using either inner/outer gear combination. As to the gear range. If you are used to a road bike, the gearing on it will be a lot higher than on a mountain bike because you do not need low gears to get over obstacles and climb more difficult terrain compared to riding on a street. If you change the tires, look for “city or slick” tires for riding on the road. Much quieter and more comfortable than the knobby tires that come stock on a mountain bike. Look for something called a “platform pedal” for riding with ordinary shoes.

wle
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i also did not understand what you meant about the chain

apparently you are riding the bike so i can;t really imagine what is wrong

explain or send pictures

"You never have the wind with you - it's either against you, or you're having a good day."
    Daniel Behrman, "The Man Who Loved Bicycles".
It never gets easy, you just go faster.   
-Greg Lemond.
       ,ø¤º°`°º¤ø¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø¸

jeff51
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I’m not riding it yet. Just put some air in the tires and sorta coasted it across the driveways. With a gentle movement of the cranks.

The chain is definitely threaded wrong. It still moves through the derailleur arm. But it is on the wrong side of the ??? Bar? / piece of metal that sits between the two wheels on the derailleur arm.

It rubs on this piece. But not any wear there I can tell. Know more after I get the chain off.
It can be ridden like this but not by me.

Saw a YouTube vid on chain replacement that showed the correct path. That agreed with what I surmised to be the correct way to do it.

I’ll post a pic after I get done with my infusions for the month.

Lots of dried grease. Need to find some cheap wrenches and get the wheel bearings apart and goop ‘me up.
Thanks again,
All the Best,
Jeff

wle
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it should not be necessary to ‘break the chain to get it back in the right place.

again a picture would help

‘greasing the wheels’ is a huge job, and you have to get it adjusted right afterwards

you need cone wrenches, cassette remover, at least

i wouldn;t do that til you decide to keep or not

consider a bike shop for that

"You never have the wind with you - it's either against you, or you're having a good day."
    Daniel Behrman, "The Man Who Loved Bicycles".
It never gets easy, you just go faster.   
-Greg Lemond.
       ,ø¤º°`°º¤ø¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø¸

jeff51
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A pic will show it..
Imagine the S shape made by the chain.. Stick a pin on arms between the wheels. The chain can go on one side of the pin.
The pin is slightly offset. With the chain on the correct side it moves freely.
The other way it just rubs on the pin.
The pin in this case is a tap of metal that is bent in from the derailleur arms.
When I post the pic it will become obvious.
No other way to get it right break the chain or dissemble the derailleur.

wle
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jeff51 wrote:
A pic will show it.. Imagine the S shape made by the chain.. Stick a pin on arms between the wheels. The chain can go on one side of the pin. The pin is slightly offset. With the chain on the correct side it moves freely. The othe way it just rubs on the pin. The pin in this case is a tap of metal that is bent in from the derailleur arms. When I post the of ir will become obvious. No other way to get it right break the chain or dissemble the derailleur.

ok still need pic

"You never have the wind with you - it's either against you, or you're having a good day."
    Daniel Behrman, "The Man Who Loved Bicycles".
It never gets easy, you just go faster.   
-Greg Lemond.
       ,ø¤º°`°º¤ø¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø¸

kennybobby
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If someone routed it improper, you should be able to lift the chain from the two derailer gear pulley wheels (jockey and idler) and start over.

Can’t imagine how someone could route the chain to cross the cage plate arm, but it would be possible. Also the pulley wheels can be loosened and removed if for some reason it is really fubar. There is usually a guard to keep the chain from jumping off held by the same bolts that connect the cage plate.

No need to break the chain unless you just got the urge.

Now i used to think that i was cool,
drivin' around on fossil fuel,
until i saw what i was doin',
was drivin' down the road to ruin. --JT

jeff51
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Got finished with the infusions.

Sometimes ya’ get the good nurse – Sometimes ya’ don’t.

So here are some pics of my rear derailleur..
This is how mine is threaded. Taken from the opposite side from the cassette so you can see the path better.
The chain is surrounded on four sides by the derailleur wheel, the two arms that make up the derailleur, and the tab that is a bent hunk of metal that is part of the derailleur arms.

There is no way that I can see to get the chain on the other side of the tab without breaking the chain or dissembling the derailleur.
Breaking the chain is way easier/safer for a duffer like me. Besides it will give me the opportunity to clean that sucker.

Mine

Here is a capture from a Park video showing the correct way to thread the derailleur arm.
Correct

Thanks for all the info and links!
All the Best,
Jeff

wle
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i still can;t exactly tell what is going on

one thought it, someone took the back wheel off and didn;t get it back on right, with the cogs in the right place

it;s easy to mess that up. it would be pretty hard to install the chain wrong.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Palu5RkQjoU

"You never have the wind with you - it's either against you, or you're having a good day."
    Daniel Behrman, "The Man Who Loved Bicycles".
It never gets easy, you just go faster.   
-Greg Lemond.
       ,ø¤º°`°º¤ø¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø¸

jeff51
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wle wrote:
i still can;t exactly tell what is going on

one thought it, someone took the back wheel off and didn;t get it back on right, with the cogs in the right place

it;s easy to mess that up. it would be pretty hard to install the chain wrong.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Palu5RkQjoU

Some bikes have a single arm on the shifter. Easy to remove and reposition the chain.
My chain is surrounded on 4 sides. It is not possible to get the chain in the current location without threading it through there in the first place.

Here is another shot from the back side. You can’t see the problem from the front.
The chain is supposed to go above the tab so that it rides on the wheel not the tab.
Easy to do it wrong if not paying attention when installing the chain.

See that tab by the red arrow?
The chain must go on one side or the other.
On one side, the chain rubs on the tab.
On the other side it does not.

The chain goes around the cassette.
Over the first wheel.
Then on my bike – there is a tab in between the two derailleur wheels.
The chain must pass on one side or the other.

Take a look at the pic below. The correct way has the chain passing on the left side of the tab.
The chain does not rub on the tab.

The incorrect way has the chain passing on the right side of the tab.
The chain rubs on the tab.

See this video at 4:53 to see the chain routed and the tab of which I speak.

Not real easy to get a better pic in there.
After I get it corrected I’ll post a new pic.
All the Best,
Jeff

wle
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yes i see it now, that kind of thing would make me question any other work that was done on the bike!

also the chain looks worn, like they rode it that way.. scraping and clicking!

breaking the chain – some chains technically require a new link or new pins, to re-join (shimano)

i recommend SRAM chains, they have a magic master link that does not require this

"You never have the wind with you - it's either against you, or you're having a good day."
    Daniel Behrman, "The Man Who Loved Bicycles".
It never gets easy, you just go faster.   
-Greg Lemond.
       ,ø¤º°`°º¤ø¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø¸

jeff51
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wle wrote:
yes i see it now, that kind of thing would make me question any other work that was done on the bike!

also the chain looks worn, like they rode it that way.. scraping and clicking!

breaking the chain – some chains technically require a new link or new pins, to re-join (shimano)

i recommend SRAM chains, they have a magic master link that does not require this


Yeah, I’m a bit spooked by this too. Didn’t notice it till I got it home.
I hope what happened was the chain broke (or?) and the bike got put up. Then new tires got installed (look nearly new to me) and the chain got put on incorrectly.

I’ll know more after I get feeling better (takes a day or two) and get the chain off there.
Thanks for the SRAM suggestion

Just looked. The current chain is marked: PC 951 and it has a magic link so it will be easy to remove.
wfe – are most chains basically the same as far as using them on a bike like mine?
Obviously I don’t need anything fancy.
The SRAM at $22 seems like a good deal to me. I’ll count the links/measure after I get it off the bike.
https://www.amazon.com/SRAM-9-Speed-Bicycle-PowerLink-Connector/dp/B07XY...

All the Best,
Jeff

wle
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you do need to get the correct ‘speeds’ for the cassette

there is “6-7-8” speed, for 6, 7 or 8 cogs

then all the rest are unique, 9, 10, and 11 each have their own width
pc 951 is a sram

reuse if you can, it is prob not worn (“stretched”)

"You never have the wind with you - it's either against you, or you're having a good day."
    Daniel Behrman, "The Man Who Loved Bicycles".
It never gets easy, you just go faster.   
-Greg Lemond.
       ,ø¤º°`°º¤ø¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø¸

kennybobby
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Just loosen that socket head cap screw that is holding the arm to the upper pulley wheel and loosen the cap screw in the idler pulley, then the arm can be moved to let the chain ride in the correct position, then reinstall the arm and tighten the screws. No chain break required.

Now i used to think that i was cool,
drivin' around on fossil fuel,
until i saw what i was doin',
was drivin' down the road to ruin. --JT

Vegas LED Fan
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You are correct that the chain is not threaded correctly. It should be inside the derailleur cage, not riding on the tab. If you are lucky, there will be a master link that you can open. That’s a lot easier with an $9 master link tool https://www.ebay.com/itm/353565699003 but if you remove the tension on the chain as shown at 1:09 in this video it is easier. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8JnvlcmyGE If your chain has no master link, then you need a chain tool for opening one of the pins or simply cut it if you are going to replace it.

The alternative is to unscrew the bolts that hold the jockey wheels in place, re-rout the chain, and reinstall the bolts. This is a bit difficult because it is tough to deal with loose parts and the chain. A new chain will make it a lot easier. The KMC chain with a master link is the OEM chain on a lot of bikes.

You can get a good price on eBay compared to going to your local bike shop. Just count the number of gears on the cassette and select the right chain.
KMC X8.93 6,7,8 speed chain $13 postpaid https://www.ebay.com/itm/284426075943
KMC X9.93 9 speed chain $19 postpaid https://www.ebay.com/itm/393386368206

jeff51
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Thanks all,
Got a chain tool on it’s way. The SRAM chain I have has a master link.
All the Best,
Jeff

wle
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the sram chains can be opened up without a tool though

look for their masterlink videos

it can be a little hard but don’t use a chain tool

you will just make the chain weak where you break it

powerlink

"You never have the wind with you - it's either against you, or you're having a good day."
    Daniel Behrman, "The Man Who Loved Bicycles".
It never gets easy, you just go faster.   
-Greg Lemond.
       ,ø¤º°`°º¤ø¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø¸

jeff51
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wle wrote:
the sram chains can be opened up without a tool though

look for their masterlink videos

it can be a little hard but don’t use a chain tool

you will just make the chain weak where you break it

powerlink


Not mine! Tried everything except Devine intervention.
Almost got it when my snap ring pliers gave up the ghost.
That sucker is really on there.
Think master link pliers is my only hope.
All the Best,
Jeff
wle
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ok – you could still take that one bolt out of the derailleur cage and fix it!!

if you do break the chain, get another powerlink to put it back together
very easy

wle

"You never have the wind with you - it's either against you, or you're having a good day."
    Daniel Behrman, "The Man Who Loved Bicycles".
It never gets easy, you just go faster.   
-Greg Lemond.
       ,ø¤º°`°º¤ø¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø¸

jeff51
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Just thought I’d update.
Got in a Park Master Link tool.
8 seconds later the Master Link is out with no damage.
Wow is this chain in need of a clean and lube. It’s so gummed up with old lube it will almost stand up on it’s own.
Thanks everyone for all the help!
All the Best,
Jeff

wle
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it;s probably ok as is, put it in kerosene if you feel like you have to do something Smile

wle

"You never have the wind with you - it's either against you, or you're having a good day."
    Daniel Behrman, "The Man Who Loved Bicycles".
It never gets easy, you just go faster.   
-Greg Lemond.
       ,ø¤º°`°º¤ø¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø¸

wle
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sram chains do not have a ‘master link’ though

usually those are for single speed chains that do have a master link

you may have taken out one of the regular links

the powerlink [if it is a sram chain] would not really respond to a ‘master link’ tool

so i am a bit confused.

if you did take out one of the regular links, you should use a powerlink, to replace it

if you just jam the original pin back, it may be weak there…

wle

"You never have the wind with you - it's either against you, or you're having a good day."
    Daniel Behrman, "The Man Who Loved Bicycles".
It never gets easy, you just go faster.   
-Greg Lemond.
       ,ø¤º°`°º¤ø¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø¸

kennybobby
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If the chain had a master link, then that would explain how it could get improperly routed such as it was.

Now i used to think that i was cool,
drivin' around on fossil fuel,
until i saw what i was doin',
was drivin' down the road to ruin. --JT

Keepitsharp
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Kennybobby (post #47 above) has the exact best solution to this problem. No chain break required. Seriously. Take it to a bike shop. They could fix this for you in about 30 seconds.

wle
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Keepitsharp wrote:
Kennybobby (post #47 above) has the exact best solution to this problem. No chain break required. Seriously. Take it to a bike shop. They could fix this for you in about 30 seconds.

that is true
probably for about $20, too or less
wle

"You never have the wind with you - it's either against you, or you're having a good day."
    Daniel Behrman, "The Man Who Loved Bicycles".
It never gets easy, you just go faster.   
-Greg Lemond.
       ,ø¤º°`°º¤ø¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø¸

kennybobby
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Doesn’t matter, post 53 it was done in 8 seconds, plus he gets to dip the whole chain in a bucket of kerosene.

After the dip and wipe down with old newspapers, he can soak it in a can of oil; another wipe down and get the excess oil off and it will be the best lubed chain on the block.

Now i used to think that i was cool,
drivin' around on fossil fuel,
until i saw what i was doin',
was drivin' down the road to ruin. --JT

xevious
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jeff51 wrote:
Got it home just now.
I lucked out, the frame has Large on a sticker.
My fat ass does take up about 80% of the rear shock travel.

The tires look nearly new. The tubes seems to be holding air after I pumped them up.

The rear derailleur seems to be threaded incorrectly. The chain rubs on section between the two wheels. Like it is on the wrong side.
I used to have a chain tool someplace. Haven’t seen it for 25 years.

Looks like I’ve got: shimano deore front – x7 rear, bontranger cranks, rolf satellite rims, fox rear shock, kenda klaw xt rubber, wtb seat. Shimano clincher breaks.

Feeling a little better about it now that it looks like it will fit me (perhaps). And nothing seems bent or bound up.
Need to get me a skid lid to keep my old man brains on the inside.

And holy crap is this geared low. Where was this kind of thing when I was a kid living halfway down the steepest hill in the whole neighborhood?
Here it’s flat, I’ll never get to that smallest crank wheel.

If I can get my training wheels off after all these years, I’ll enjoy it.
My bud in Alpine wants me to come ride with him. Hell, I’ll need a heart lung transplant before I can keep up….

Thanks again for all the help!
All the Best,
Jeff

I once bought a bike off auction. A really nice Specialized one. I had checked for maximum seat height, but… had neglected the seat post to front post distance. It was really too short. I could ride it, albeit hunched over, but when I had someone photograph me and a buddy with his bike that fit him properly, I looked like a giant on a circus bike. I hope your sizing is good. If you plan to ride much, you really want that part right. You may want to take it to a bike shop to get it properly serviced, and while there make sure a tech can verify it’s a good fit for you.
jeff51
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Don’t know what to say. The link came apart without any damage.
I did miss used the term Master Link (for the SRAM Link). But that is the term used for the name of the tool.
The link I removed is indeed an SRAM link.

No matter what I tried, I could not get that sucker off there. Watched the videos – no joy. Lots of cussing and trying various techniques.
Soon as I put the Park tool to it, a gentile squeeze and it moved to the position where I could pull it apart.

This tool, not a chain link pusher.

All the best,
Jeff

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